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What's Wrong With WA?

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Post  planetcare Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:04 am

Firefly wrote:
mbasko wrote:
Firefly wrote:there has been a 40% increase in death rates for 18- to 64-year-old individuals across the U.S
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/11/blog-posting/no-covid-19-vaccines-arent-responsible-increase-de/

Also the percentage of the USA vaccinated x 2 doses is low at only 66%.
"Overall, 218,907,165 people or 66% of the population are considered fully vaccinated"
That doesn't make sense that vaccination is the cause of any illness increase with such a comparatively low percentage of the population vaccinated? As stated in the link it's more likely any increases are from Covid itself, especially in the unvaccinated population.

As a comparison Australia is ~95% fully vaccinated.
"Ischaemic heart disease
Ischaemic heart disease is the leading cause of death in Australia. The category includes acute conditions such as myocardial infarction and chronic conditions such as coronary atherosclerosis.

13,878 deaths were certified by a doctor as being due to ischaemic heart disease (IHD) during 2021.
This is 1,220 deaths (8.8%) below the 2015-19 average, but is 2.0% higher than the 13,609 deaths certified as being due to IHD in 2020.

Deaths due to IHD have been decreasing over time."

So why is it Mr Misinformation that with a much higher percentage of the Australian population vaccinated in comparison to the good 'ol US of A are we seeing an 8.8% decrease from 2015-2019 pre-covid times. Does this mean for Australians that the vaccinations are preventing heart disease? Of course not but maybe the vaccine companies could claim it  Laughing

Your "news source" is once again full of misinformation & misrepresentation of data. Facts elude them.

Oh, of course, it’s the unvaccinated that account for the 40% increase in deaths. Silly me, why did I not think of that! Instead, I chose to consider and note the findings of a US$100 billion dollar US insurance company that compiled their data from companies that offer life insurance to their employees, many of which had vaccine mandates in place as a condition of employment.

I guess I’ll also have to dismiss the other medical research/papers highlighting the possible increase in cardiological disease, amongst others, associated with the mRNA vaccines, unless of course the unvaccinated are the cause.

Simple solutions are the best solutions don’t you think?

The data is clear,unvaccinated people are much more likely to end up in hospital with covid and are more likely to end up in ICU and die.
Cardiological disease is associated with covid and the reported incidence is much , much higher than that associated with covid vaccines.

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Post  Kon61gold Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:29 am

I can't see what you blokes are worried about. A little to late now for what the vaccines might have or might not have caused.
A majority of the worlds population has now been vaccinated. Any serious health issues or problems encountered from or contributed from the vaccines should now be dealt with the manufacturers of such vaccines & governments who not only have allowed, but insisted on people being vaccinated.
The only problem you might find is that one of the conditions towards any country gaining access to such vaccines, the manufacturers are immune to any form of prosecution caused by the vaccines.
So now we're left dealing with the government. The only drawback here is that the government is immune to any form of prosecution also, leaving now one with lawyers (the slickest & greatest of all shenanigans) dragging things to & from courts, till there's nothing left in ones pocket to pay them with.
You see, a win win all-round for the system, but nothing in way of compensation for the individuals legitimately affected (health wise) by such vaccines. Smile

Kon T25
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Post  mbasko Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:54 am

Kon61gold wrote:I can't see what you blokes are worried about. A little to late now for what the vaccines might have or might not have caused.
A majority of the worlds population has now been vaccinated. Any serious health issues or problems encountered from or contributed from the vaccines should now be dealt with the manufacturers of such vaccines & governments who not only have allowed, but insisted on people being vaccinated.
The only problem you might find is that one of the conditions towards any country gaining access to such vaccines, the manufacturers are immune to any form of prosecution caused by the vaccines.
So now we're left dealing with the government. The only drawback here is that the government is immune to any form of prosecution also, leaving now one with lawyers (the slickest & greatest of all shenanigans) dragging things to & from courts, till there's nothing left in ones pocket to pay them with.
You see, a win win all-round for the system, but nothing in way of compensation for the individuals legitimately affected (health wise) by such vaccines. Smile

Kon T25
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccine-claims-scheme
No doubt some hoops to jump through but there is something for legitimate claims.

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Post  mbasko Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:02 am

Firefly wrote:
mbasko wrote:
Firefly wrote:there has been a 40% increase in death rates for 18- to 64-year-old individuals across the U.S
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/11/blog-posting/no-covid-19-vaccines-arent-responsible-increase-de/

Also the percentage of the USA vaccinated x 2 doses is low at only 66%.
"Overall, 218,907,165 people or 66% of the population are considered fully vaccinated"
That doesn't make sense that vaccination is the cause of any illness increase with such a comparatively low percentage of the population vaccinated? As stated in the link it's more likely any increases are from Covid itself, especially in the unvaccinated population.

As a comparison Australia is ~95% fully vaccinated.
"Ischaemic heart disease
Ischaemic heart disease is the leading cause of death in Australia. The category includes acute conditions such as myocardial infarction and chronic conditions such as coronary atherosclerosis.

13,878 deaths were certified by a doctor as being due to ischaemic heart disease (IHD) during 2021.
This is 1,220 deaths (8.8%) below the 2015-19 average, but is 2.0% higher than the 13,609 deaths certified as being due to IHD in 2020.

Deaths due to IHD have been decreasing over time."

So why is it Mr Misinformation that with a much higher percentage of the Australian population vaccinated in comparison to the good 'ol US of A are we seeing an 8.8% decrease from 2015-2019 pre-covid times. Does this mean for Australians that the vaccinations are preventing heart disease? Of course not but maybe the vaccine companies could claim it  Laughing

Your "news source" is once again full of misinformation & misrepresentation of data. Facts elude them.

Oh, of course, it’s the unvaccinated that account for the 40% increase in deaths. Silly me, why did I not think of that! Instead, I chose to consider and note the findings of a US$100 billion dollar US insurance company that compiled their data from companies that offer life insurance to their employees, many of which had vaccine mandates in place as a condition of employment.

I guess I’ll also have to dismiss the other medical research/papers highlighting the possible increase in cardiological disease, amongst others, associated with the mRNA vaccines, unless of course the unvaccinated are the cause.

Simple solutions are the best solutions don’t you think?
Oh silly me a huge money making machine that is bleeding due to an international pandemic trying to shift liabilities by using misrepresented data. How unlikely. Laughing
So you didn't answer the question on why a country like Australia with a large percentage of the population being vaccinated are seeing decreases in things like heart disease vs a comparatively low percentage of the population vaccinated like the USA seeing increases. Why is it so?
Where are the facts you were getting for us all to read? scratch

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Post  Kon61gold Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:02 pm

Agree mbasko. Our government has made way for some little form of compensation caused by or attributed from the covid-19 vaccines but, like you say, its those hurdles one has to clear first in order to prove their claims as legitimate, before being compensated out.
Firefly, In all reality, we cant blame the manufacturers of such vaccines when the average person out there depends on being given the right information from Atagi or that through our own government or medical practitioners, so that (as you say) people can then make their own clear cut conscious decisions, on which path would be be the safest way to tread.
Problem is when this pandemic first reared its ugly head, everyone were in a panic/rush in trying to keep themselves safe from what they were seeing/hearing. Shocked
Now there's an old saying of "he who rushes trips" & I think all of us have tripped somewhere along the track by taking chances on what might or might not turn out to be a hasty decision, that over time will tell.
Like has been repeated on more than one occasion, these were or are unprecedented times we face & unprecedented times require unprecedented measures, in the hope of getting things back to normal & back on track, even though some of the decisions made by the ones in charge, might not always end up being right for everyone. Such are the times of today.

Kon. T25


Last edited by Kon61gold on Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  GR84UMR Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:05 pm

Kon61gold wrote:I can't see what you blokes are worried about. A little to late now for what the vaccines might have or might not have caused.
A majority of the worlds population has now been vaccinated. Any serious health issues or problems encountered from or contributed from the vaccines should now be dealt with the manufacturers of such vaccines & governments who not only have allowed, but insisted on people being vaccinated.
The only problem you might find is that one of the conditions towards any country gaining access to such vaccines, the manufacturers are immune to any form of prosecution caused by the vaccines.
So now we're left dealing with the government. The only drawback here is that the government is immune to any form of prosecution also, leaving now one with lawyers (the slickest & greatest of all shenanigans) dragging things to & from courts, till there's nothing left in ones pocket to pay them with.
You see, a win win all-round for the system, but nothing in way of compensation for the individuals legitimately affected (health wise) by such vaccines. Smile

Kon T25

well just the fact that the manufactures and governments are immune from prosecution if it turns out to be harmful should be enough to ring alarm bells

and there are examples of big companies being brought to justice from things they know were harmful but kept selling and promoting, (James Hardie) and asbestos for eg

and who knows why in Australia anyway the Government and others are not prosecuted for selling cigarettes, known to cause cancer, but as long as the government can tax these products it is ok it seems


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Post  GR84UMR Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:18 pm

Kon61gold wrote:
Problem is when this pandemic first reared its ugly head, everyone were in a panic/rush in trying to keep themselves safe from what they were seeing/hearing. Shocked
Now there's an old saying of "he who rushes trips" & I think all of us have tripped somewhere along the track by taking chances on what might or might not turn out to be a hasty decision, that over time will tell.


Kon. T25

it was the media that beat everyone up into a panic and frenzy and for what purpose, nothing more than the "never ending story"

in early 2000's there was SARS and MURS all in the same family corona virus as Covid 19 and there were nothing more than a few murmurs and news reports about the earlier ones, so why now for over two years

then all of a sudden when the infection numbers are still very high, way way higher then in 2020 and 2021 all the restrictions have been dropped, interstate travel restored without restriction or proof of any kind of vaccination or G2G pass

so it is a serious disease, was it ever a serious disease, more than the normal Flu or bad cold ever was, it may be that it was a giant con job (no pun intended)

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Post  planetcare Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:52 pm

GR84UMR wrote:


in early 2000's there was SARS and MURS all in the same family corona virus as Covid 19 and there were nothing more than a few murmurs and news reports about the earlier ones, so why now for over two years

then all of a sudden when the infection numbers are still very high, way way higher then in 2020 and 2021 all the restrictions have been dropped, interstate travel restored without restriction or proof of any kind of vaccination or G2G pass


The difference now is that the current covid variant while being much more infectious than earlier variants  has less morbidity and mortality. Australia also has a highly vaccinated population  as well as many people that  have had covid and recovered so the population is close to herd  immunity. Without the high vaccination rates the lifting of nearly all restrictions for everybody including the unvaccinted would not have been possible.

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Post  Kon61gold Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:12 pm

GR84umr harmful or not, a little to late for that now. Once one is left incapacitated or dead, not much point to compensation for that individual, less for the ones left out of pocket or caring for that individual.
Same can be said of the individuals who have died from, or continue to die through past British testing of radioactive nuclear weapons at Woomerra SA & or that through breathing in asbestos or fine dust particles of fibreglass, both of which over a period of time lead to asbestosis & premature death & these are only some of the past encounters with such material we know of, but who knows how much more of the same or similar, are likely to rear their ugly heads somewhere in the not so distant future.
Circumstance is what it is, but it is up to each & every individual (a bit like prospecting for gold) to do their own research as to how safe anything is, before use.
As for the workings of any government (not alone here in Australia) forget about ever bringing them to accountability, for it is through us the general public, they get voted in & whether we like it or not, the moment they take their position of authority/seat of power, are granted a  James Bond 007 (licence to kill & cover up) leaving no trace of any further evidence for prosecution towards their present or past dubious dealings. Shocked Q35 Shocked  
Agree planetcare. The first few months of information/news coming from the rest of the world, when this pandemic were in its early stages, were already enough for many to draw their own conclusion & yes the only reason the BA.2 variant is seen as having less morbidity & mortality rates on the population, is because of the high number of people now vaccinated for covid-19 or it would have read a whole different story.
Shame we cant get more accurate & overall information/results from China or that from Russia, in order to draw a far better understanding of what, when & where covid-19 with it everchanging variants, is heading in way of further morbidity & death rates.  

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Post  moredeep Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:14 pm

The whole point of trying to get the country near fully vaccinated was to make this disease less serious.
The reason we are seeing high case numbers and lower deaths is because of very high vaccinations.
As said before being vaccinated does not stop you from contracting the virus, it reduces the severity of the symptoms.
I liken it [getting the disease ] to being in the ring with mike Tyson [unvaccinated] or getting into the ring with Mr bean [vaccinated ]
You've got more of a fighting chance vaccinated Q14 Q14


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Post  bicter Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:02 pm

moredeep wrote:The whole point of trying to get the country near fully vaccinated was to make this disease less serious.
cheers   moredeep
And from a global perspective, and this is very rarely mentioned in the press,  the more prevalent the virus is in the global community, the greater the probability of a more serious variant developing and spreading.
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