Re: corona virus crisis and detecting

Guest Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:25 pm

planetcare wrote:
Kon61gold wrote:I too hear you loud & clear Bill, if only politicians during the discussion of new laws being introduced, weren't sharing/passing round the same hooka/argileh, the average person might'v had a much clearer understanding by now, of what exactly they can or cannot do.

Cheers Kon.

Sweden with half the population of Australia is one country with very relaxed corona virus restrictions that are not enforced by law. Sweden has many bars and restaurants still open and allows groups of up to 50 people and lets people make common sense decisions as regards travel and activities. The outcomes of this compared to Australia are as follows :
Sweden
Infected 9,685 (the infection rate is close to or over exponential)
deaths 870

Australia
Infected 6,238(the infection growth rate =.85 ie much less than exponential)
deaths 54

Now which country would you rather be in even if some of the restrictions seem over the top?

Planetcare
As one politician said to me about the fishing bans. If there was 30 people all fishing on the St.Kilda pier. Would you allow it ? The answer "NO" Social Distancing would be a problem. But if people were surf or river fishing where Social Distancing was adhered to along the beach or river. Would you allow that?? The answer would be more than likely "Yes". These are the sorts of questions that the Pollies are looking for answers to. Or a family that live's together in the same house having a picnic at their local park. Keeping well away from others. Would that be allowed ?? Right now "No" A mother and child walking along the beach with no other person around, being told that they can not do that, because the beach was closed and advices that they had to walk along the pathway with everyone else. "Why"?? Prospectors being told that they can't go out into the bush to detect, where you would hardly see another person. And having less chance of catching the virus. Being told that it is a recreational activity not and exercise and you can be find $1652 if doing so. But you can go to the local Supermarket with others doing their shopping, with no more than 2 meters apart. Which one of those 2 do you think is the safest answer there?? These are the non logical situations that needs to be addressed.. And these are the questions that the Politicians are trying to get answers to.
But right now this is the law and we have to accept that. But if it is true of what they are saying that this virus could stick around for another 12 months. Then we truly need to look at these restrictions more closely for some sort of normality of life.
wombat Wink

adrian ss Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:00 pm

How a law is created in Australia.
Seems to me that the laws being bandied about re the corona virus in Australia are a tad illegal and would not hold water in any court.

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/explore/education/classroomActivities/legislation/legislationMakingLaw_flowchart.pdf

planetcare Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:49 pm

Wombat wrote:
planetcare wrote:
Kon61gold wrote:I too hear you loud & clear Bill, if only politicians during the discussion of new laws being introduced, weren't sharing/passing round the same hooka/argileh, the average person might'v had a much clearer understanding by now, of what exactly they can or cannot do.

Cheers Kon.

Sweden with half the population of Australia is one country with very relaxed corona virus restrictions that are not enforced by law. Sweden has many bars and restaurants still open and allows groups of up to 50 people and lets people make common sense decisions as regards travel and activities. The outcomes of this compared to Australia are as follows :
Sweden
Infected 9,685 (the infection rate is close to or over exponential)
deaths 870

Australia
Infected 6,238(the infection growth rate =.85 ie much less than exponential)
deaths 54

Now which country would you rather be in even if some of the restrictions seem over the top?

Planetcare
As one politician said to me about the fishing bans. If there was 30 people all fishing on the St.Kilda pier. Would you allow it ? The answer "NO" Social Distancing would be a problem. But if people were surf or river fishing where Social Distancing was adhered to along the beach or river. Would you allow that?? The answer would be more than likely "Yes". These are the sorts of questions that the Pollies are looking for answers to. Or a family that live's together in the same house having a picnic at their local park. Keeping well away from others. Would that be allowed ?? Right now "No" A mother and child walking along the beach with no other person around, being told that they can not do that, because the beach was closed and advices that they had to walk along the pathway with everyone else. "Why"?? Prospectors being told that they can't go out into the bush to detect, where you would hardly see another person. And having less chance of catching the virus. Being told that it is a recreational activity not and exercise and you can be find $1652 if doing so. But you can go to the local Supermarket with others doing their shopping, with no more than 2 meters apart. Which one of those 2 do you think is the safest answer there?? These are the non logical situations that needs to be addressed.. And these are the questions that the Politicians are trying to get answers to.
But right now this is the law and we have to accept that. But if it is true of what they are saying that this virus could stick around for another 12 months. Then we truly need to look at these restrictions more closely for some sort of normality of life.
wombat

Sweden permits quite a few of the activities you describe.If they continue their present policies then the outcome will be thousands of deaths! If Australia relaxes its policies and slips up then the outcome could be similar!The virus will be here forever just like the flu. We will only get back to a "normal" life if a vaccine is developed.

adrian ss Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:16 am

It is very interesting to look at the world corona virus distribution map.
The main concentrations of the virus is in all of those places with the heaviest aircraft traffic

https://www.flightradar24.com/33.65,-93.84/3

World wide death figures are still very low for a pandemic:
England is the worst with 0.01% of population .
Australia , .00024%......Motor vehicle deaths per year to date 2019 far out number the corona virus deaths if the current death rate is extrapolated out to 12 months. Granted the corona virus could potentially take out half of Australia's population, but that is not going to happen aye.

World wide deaths per head of total population:
.0014%

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-AU&gl=AU&ceid=AU:en

boobook Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:42 am

adrian...re your comment, the laws around the covid19 virus being a "tad illegal", my interpretation is that they formulated as a "Regulation" under the imprimatur of the Governor General and would therefore be sustained in a Court of Law.
mike

Kon61gold Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:12 pm

Adrian, if it were not for the quick action/response of governments, in order to slow down the spread of corona virus, one now would not be talking about how low the death rate is. All governments had the option of adapting the "Herd Immunity" approach, some governments were even contemplating it, as most likely the best thing that can happen in order for the majority of people to become immune, (considering there's no cure), but how quick they were to change their way of thinking, when the death rate would have been 100 fold more, than what the figures read today. The "Herd Immunity" approach, is based on the fittest or most immune to this virus surviving, but any government taking or insisting on taking this type of approach, will be judged by their own people sometime down the track, for allowing/promoting the act of genocide to occur.
As for the new law currently set in place by our government in order to combat the spread of corona virus, is not a tad illegal, nor should it be considered/seen as such. It has been created, to basically protect one another, from each other. Mind you, it won't be seen that way upon the end of Easter break, when the people fined for not adhering to the law, reach an all time high. Shocked

Cheers Kon. T25

Guest Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:12 pm

Kon61gold Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:34 pm

You said the magic word Dave "seemingly" They achieved this, by hiding the truth behind welded together doors, only to come back incognito, removing unaccounted for bodies. Shocked

Considering that both America, Italy & who knows what other countries we haven't heard from yet, that ordered respirators or other medical supplies from China (in relation to the corona virus) only to find out the goods in question, were severely defective in performance.
As for the plane of Chinese medical supplies sent to us here in Australia, they felt it as only the right thing to do, considering they had ordered a s**t load of Australian medical supplies, prior to warning the world of what had happened.

Cheers Kon. T25

adrian ss Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:46 pm

Kon61gold wrote:Adrian, if it were not for the quick action/response of governments, in order to slow down the spread of corona virus, one now would not be talking about how low the death rate is. All governments had the option of adapting the "Herd Immunity" approach, some governments were even contemplating it, as most likely the best thing that can happen in order for the majority of people to become immune, (considering there's no cure), but how quick they were to change their way of thinking, when the death rate would have been 100 fold more, than what the figures read today. The "Herd Immunity" approach, is based on the fittest or most immune to this virus surviving, but any government taking or insisting on taking this type of approach, will be judged by their own people sometime down the track, for allowing/promoting the act of genocide to occur.
As for the new law currently set in place by our government in order to combat the spread of corona virus, is not a tad illegal, nor should it be considered/seen as such. It has been created, to basically protect one another, from each other. Mind you, it won't be seen that way upon the end of Easter break, when the people fined for not adhering to the law, reach an all time high.

Cheers Kon.

I am not so sure of that Kon.
My daughter who came to Canb from Sydney said the highway was almost deserted...At the beginning of Easter the Barton Highway is always packed.
Maybe most of the people likely to be fined were going to or coming from QLD?? or people trying to get to the coast for some fresh salty corona free sea air. Very Happy

It will be interesting to see if there is a spike in corona cases in Australia. I personally do not think that there will be.

Kon61gold Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:57 pm

Not talking about major state highways of which are heavily patrolled Adrian, but more so by some people, not staying indoors celebrating the Easter break on/at their place of residence, but more so found out & about celebrating their Easter break on another's premises, with others more than what the law allows.
The only way there won't be a spike in corona virus cases, is if we persevere/continue to abide by the stage 3 restrictions in place, for if we drop our guard to early to soon, in a months time, we'll be back to where we are now & all that has been achieved so far, would have all been for nothing.

Cheers Kon. T25

adrian ss Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:23 pm

davsgold wrote:For something made in China, the designer Corona Virus is lasting remarkably well in and around the rest of the world while China where it was first released from have now gone back to Wuhan and seemingly going about their business, even sending a plane load of medical supplies to Australia

How if the whole of Wuhan was shut down entirely have they achieved this....................?????

cheers dave

Good question>

Wuhan region:
Total cases = 67,803
Total recoveries = 64,187 = 94.6 recovery rate.
Total deaths = 3,215 = 4.7 % death rate
Population = 11.1 million.

There is a dircrepancy of -401 cases.
I guess the figures are not very exact and dependant on how well they are recorded.

These figures do not rest well with the stats for the rest of the world.
Somebody is telling porkies.

rockhunter62 Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:04 pm

adrian ss wrote:
davsgold wrote:For something made in China, the designer Corona Virus is lasting remarkably well in and around the rest of the world while China where it was first released from have now gone back to Wuhan and seemingly going about their business, even sending a plane load of medical supplies to Australia

How if the whole of Wuhan was shut down entirely have they achieved this....................?????

cheers dave

Good question>

Wuhan region:
Total cases = 67,803
Total recoveries = 64,187 = 94.6 recovery rate.
Total deaths = 3,215 = 4.7 % death rate
Population = 11.1 million.

There is a dircrepancy of -401 cases.
I guess the figures are not very exact and dependant on how well they are recorded.

These figures do not rest well with the stats for the rest of the world.
Somebody is telling porkies.

Maybe they haven't recovered yet Adrianne, did you think of that?

Cheers

Doug

rockhunter62 Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:08 pm

Kon61gold wrote:You said the magic word Dave "seemingly" They achieved this, by hiding the truth behind welded together doors, only to come back incognito, removing unaccounted for bodies.
Considering that both America, Italy & who knows what other countries we haven't heard from yet, that ordered respirators or other medical supplies from China (in relation to the corona virus) only to find out the goods in question, were severely defective in performance.
As for the plane of Chinese medical supplies sent to us here in Australia, they felt it as only the right thing to do, considering they had ordered a s**t load of Australian medical supplies, prior to warning the world of what had happened.

Cheers Kon.

That sounds like a conspiracy story you are starting there Kon, I thought they weren't allowed on this forum.

Cheers

Doug

Alan WA Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:33 pm

The world's financial system was getting closer to collapsing.
The virus has come along and forced the issue. Very convenient.
Something the banks can put the blame on. This is gold rdlated.

Kon61gold Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:29 pm

You are right there Doug, for it does sound like conspiracy theory. Damn our lying media & politicians, for a second there I started to believe in them. Laughing

Cheers Kon. T25

adrian ss Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:02 pm

Went to IKEA on Sunday to purchase a computer work station.
Encountered a lot of traffic heading that way and when we arrived the car park was chock a block full and still cars lining up. Decided that it was a corona hot spot and came home. No way on Gods little earth were we getting out of the car there let alone going into the store. affraid

moredeep Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:12 pm

I know it's one of the most infuriating rules with this lock down,essential shopping??
A relative of mine works in a large retail shop,an elderly lady said to her,"THANK GOD YOUR OPEN ,CAUSE I'D HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO"
Says it all really.
So very wise decision Adrian.

cheers moredeep

Guest Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:23 pm

moredeep Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:32 pm

Bizarre idea,Just leave your phone at home would be a simple way around it.
Can't get fined for not having a phone but then again they'll make it illegal not to carry a phone?

cheers moredeep

planetcare Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:24 pm

moredeep wrote:Bizarre idea,Just leave your phone at home would be a simple way around it.
Can't get fined for not having a phone but then again they'll make it illegal not to carry a phone?

cheers moredeep

Downloading the app is voluntary.

moredeep Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:29 pm

It's very weird,who's going to download it?
Maybe get the politicians to try it out first ,then we'll see how many back pedal at the idea.

cheers moredeep

Kon61gold Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:05 pm

Dave, all I can say is, I thank my lucky stars I live in a democratic nation & the citizens of Australia do have the right to choose whether to accept/reject the governments proposal. This is why the government is asking voluntarily & not demanding of us to do so. One things for certain though, they're striking at a time when the iron is hot, fully aware that the more we're kept in isolation, the more desperate we'll be towards getting out.
What people have to take into consideration here is that, if accepted by the 40% population, will they also have the same right, of having this scheme scraped/removed from their phones when the corona crises comes to an end or near end, or will it be destined to remain in force from here on, taking more of ones privacy/freedom away?

Cheers Kon. T25

adrian ss Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:48 am

I have a "Flip Phone": I can call people and they can call me...If I haven't blocked them. That's it. Very Happy

If I want to get on the net I will turn the comp on.
If I don't want to be called I leave the phone off.

keogh Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:08 pm

What is really going on.?

planetcare Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:56 pm

keogh wrote:
What is really going on.?

This is just a political opinion and another conspiracy theory. Interestingly it mentions Sweden as an example of why a lock down and strict enforcement of social distancing is not necessary.Well i suggest everyone keep an eye on what is happening there.So far over 1200 deaths and an infection rate of double that of Australia.I predict that if Sweden continues with its present policies then they will have thousands more deaths and may well become a mini Italy. Interestingly it talks about individual rights but no mention of the right of an individual not to become infected by somebody else flouting the rules!

Redfin Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:23 pm

keogh wrote:
What is really going on.?

corona virus crisis and detecting - Page 5 Cs11

Kon61gold Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:48 pm

Keogh, I'v asked you on more than one occasion to keep all or any form of personal belief/conspiracy theories to your self & not have them downloaded & brought on to a gold detecting/prospecting forum up for discussion/debate. Members on here are free to get on YouTube & listen to as much personal opinion/conspiracy theory, about what each really think is behind this corona virus outbreak as they like, but not have it introduced up on this forum for the purpose of discussion/debate. The one main rule on this forum is "respect for one another" & adhering/respecting the wishes of management, none of which you care little about. Now I know you think that I'm trying to muzzle up the real truth about whats really behind the motives of this corona virus (just like you believe all other politicians of the world are trying to do) but In reality I say to you, I'm only muzzling up theoretical, unsubstantiated crap, from continuing to degrade the credibility of this forum & what it stands for.

Management

Guest Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:31 pm

fully Kon. Q15

mate.

The Government is not spending Billions & Billions of dollars just to keep us at home to watch Netflix and such. This virus is spreading around the world quicker and taking lives faster than any flu
wombat Wink

PeterInSa Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:41 pm

Have Friends/rellies that live in NW Tassie, its in Lockdown, only Supermarkets and Chemists open ( I understand), Bunnings closed except for Tradies, Kamart etc etc closed. Can only travel in local area. One Rellie lives in the Devonport Council area but is closer to Latrobe and needs to go to her Chemist there (Chemist in Devonport is a lot further away, so may have issues if pulled up by police).. To me must be a similar setup to NZ.

adrian ss Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:56 pm

On average the number of deaths from the common flu in Australia each year is 1,500 - 3,000.
Hospitalisations 20,000
Elderly and people with chronic diseases are 40 times more likely to die from the flu than younger fitter people.

Corona deaths to date in Australia 63
Cases reported inc hospitalisations approx 6500.

Corona seems pretty tame to me.

When the full on flu season begins, are we going to have another total lock down/ It seems to be more deadly than the corona virus.
Or is it just ok to die from the flu but not the corona virus. I mean the Gov does not seem to be too bothered by people dying from or contracting the flu aye, even though the numbers are much higher than for the corona virus to date.

I tend to feel that if we had not had these lock downs that the total deaths from the corona v would be the same as with the lock downs.

Enforcing isolation and safe distancing will doubtless slow the infection rate but in the end the death and infection percentages will end up the same as it will be with these regulations that are destroying our economy, our livelihood, in some cases mentality and family stability.

Just some thoughts to encourage discussion not necessarily my beliefs.......So don't jump down my throat. Laughing