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Eastern states prospectors ignoring the rules in wa.

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Post  Birdman Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:21 pm

Enough is enough. We have old eastern staters coming in like mosquitos walking on tenaments and taking out nuggets.

Look why should we put up with a grandmother form melbourne pulling out a 30k slug from pegged ground. The wa people work hard to peg their ground and pay through the nose to govt for their rights. Why should an eastern stater just think it is okay to waltz in ignore the tengraph map and come in and take a 30k tax free slug of some wa battler.

brag about it and say they did not know where they found it.

It is not as if wa people are heading to eastern states to take your gold off pegged ground.
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Post  Undertaker Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:13 pm

Hi Birdman,

This is Australia, we are all Australians therefore the gold belongs to all of us. You talk as if WA is another country.If somebody knowingly detects for gold on pegged ground they should be fined. It couldn't be all Easterners breaking the rules.
Instead of wasting your time wingeing go out and find your own giant slug.
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Eastern states prospectors ignoring the rules in wa. Empty EASTERN STATERS

Post  monoandnan Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:13 pm

G/day Birdman
I could'nt agree more with you, its the ones that sneek onto leases and do the wrong thing that gives all eastern stater a bad name. But lets be fair, I know of quite a few WA prospector that do the same thing, with the attitude of " I am an australian and pay my taxes, so I can go where I want ". I'm not sticking up for the wrong doers, they should be prosicuted to the full extent of the law, but leave the people who do the right thing alone, at least they try to stay legal. After all, We are all living in One counrty not two.

Cheers, Mono
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Post  Birdman Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:21 pm

You just cannot afford to put a barbed wire fence around your patch. The last caravan park i went to and i cannot say were, there were forty five eastern states prospectors and 4 wa prospectors hobbyists and one pro.

By the time you take a pic of them they are back over the border.

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Post  GoldstalkerGPX Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:28 pm

Clean ya lens Birdman!!! I'll be over there next year, but ya won't get a pic of me doing the wrong thing Very Happy

Have a read through relevant threads already on the forum about this topic, some very good points in there!

Also ya can't brand all of one type of person with the same hot iron now can you? 'Cause I'd refer back to some of your first posts on the forum. (not nit picking just making valid point)

CUINWA Cheers
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Post  monoandnan Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:30 pm

Hi Birdman
Just keep taking the pics mate, what more can you do, yeah its frustrating but what more can you do, you can only hope the Mines Dept will act on the photos and prosicute the hell out of them.
I was accused of being on someones lease this year but at the time I was 500kl away in Cue with friends, so I know what its like to be accused wrongly, so photos should do the trick in proving their wrong doings.

Mono
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Post  Birdman Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:33 pm

I agree lets make it a free for all then.

Otherwise we just need to respect the rules.

I guess if you burgle the ground of an asx company, it is not the same as walking into the unfenced prospect of a battler.

it is frustrating when multi nationals peg 3500 square kilometers. When a battler pays 8000 for 3 square k's

you are onto it..... just dont take it all eastern staters leave something for the locals. You are onto it mono you know what i am saying exactly.... the word of mouth in the eastern states.
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Post  monoandnan Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:05 pm

Birdman
I agree, if the Big mining companys open their leases for the prospector it might ease the burden on the smaller operators. There is a big company "no names" near Kalgoorlie that have had to let some leases go due to not being worked, they stoped the prospectors going on their leases and now there is no expenditure being claimed so bye bye leases. serves them right, what the propector finds on those leases is no lose to them, now the small time lease holder is bearing the brunt of it.
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Post  MS Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:09 pm

Hi Birdman
Labeling prospectors as to where they come from is a bit of a silly statement, this is Australia and we are all Australians, we all have the same rights.
Yes there is a percentage of people who will do the wrong thing but that has nothing to do with what state they are from.
Lets face it, the gold we are finding has been sitting there for hundreds of millions of years and is fare game to all if you hold a miners right, if you have an active claim over a area, yes you have the rights to that spot, so get out there and work your claim.
I think the legislation is causing more problems than it is worth, claims and leases should be for underground work {mining}and the surface should be opened up to all with detectors and hand tools only with the appropriate miners right, this would create a much more friendly situation with no confusion.
The revenue from mining would stay the same and more people would come into this hobby which means more miners rights being bought and more travelers spending money on food and fuel in these small country towns, the flow on effects are a very important source of income for many of these small communities .
I think governments should acknowledge this and make changes to open more areas up, after all isn't it better to stimulate the economy and as a bonus a much healthier option to get people off their butts and out in the fresh air exercising.
Cheers Mark
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Post  Tributer Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:26 pm

Im from NSW and do the right thing in WA and VIC, NSW and everywhere else. Are you implying all the WA locals follow the rules. I can tell you that familiarity with the goldfields breeds a culture of locals can do as they please especially if they think there is some nuggets there others have not had a go at.

When i was in WA it was mainly WA locals who detected reguarly who were illegally going on leases and telling me not to worry and to jump the fences x kms south & north of KAL and other places.

And another thing that i did not like was the so called active leases where a small pit was dug in 1980 but since then nothing has happened and every corporate dinner and plane trip by a geo is booked up as work on the lease. It is shear real estate mineral speculation gone mad. I don't go on the leases without permission but i still don't respect the antics of many real estate companies.

And as for some of the oldies who go over and park in Sandstone caravan park for a month or two. They do their best to go where they are allowed but they can't all be expected to master the internet/S20A's and Tengraph and be in the right spot everytime. There are some historical gold fields that should be left for the people.

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Post  Birdman Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:33 pm

I am also a fisherman and locals are parochial about their fishing spots.

A place i go to takes a 7km hike and i can pull 10kg gropers at a time.

This place is kept secret. because if it is not then every bloke comes out and cleans the reef out from out of town and the locals are left with a fished out reef hardly fair.

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Post  Guest Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:39 pm

Somewhere out there Birdman is a huge nugget with your name on it.....I hope some Eastern stater finds it before you do!

I'll be over there next year...thanks for the welcome!

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Post  Guest Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:44 pm

There's no doubt about it, WA needs to implement a system similar to Vic. It is the only way.Smile
And yes it is really not OK to discriminate an the basis of where you live or much of anything else for that matter.
A quick look at just about any other country in the world will enlighten you on this point. Such too often leads to some of man's least admirable qualities surfacing and we really really do not want any of that in "our" beautiful land.
Remember, You get what you create in this world.
Sparrowfart sunny

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Post  Birdman Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:48 pm

The gold is in margret river. Buy some cartons of wine to take back with you.
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Post  Guest Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:53 pm

Birdman wrote:The gold is in margret river. Buy some cartons of wine to take back with you.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out when I'm over there next winter! bounce

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Post  nero_design Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:03 pm

Nobody actually owns the gold until it is out of the ground. Ownership of the property gives no mineral rights to the landholder. But it enables him to act on trespassers and to pursue their ill-gotten gains.

Plenty of older prospectors head to WA with absolutely no intention of asking for permission. But many of the 'stolen nugget' stories I've heard from WA prospectors have involved locals who knew just which fences to jump... and when.

Human nature is a hard thing to curb.
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Post  Guest Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:13 pm

the thing to do is stop letting people pegging the grounds and then beening the only ones to go there...then eveyone can go where they like and then there's none off this these state people are comming over doing the wrong thing ect ect...
cheers
stoppsy

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Post  spinna Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:42 pm

Hi Birdman,

Don't tar all "old eastern staters" with the one brush.

I don't doubt that some "foreigners" do ignore the WA laws, but for heavens sake man, do you really believe that we all go other there with the intent of deliberately flaunting the rules? Any reasonable person would find that a bit too much to swallow.

I was over there recently and met up with a local who lived on his lease. (his comments were that it was cheap rent).
He openly admitted that he didn't seriously prospect his patch and that he jumped others claims all the time. He said that this was a common practice. ( his words, not mine ).

Perhaps you need to look in your own backyard as well.

This is a great forum with lots of interesting people contributing informative and well thought out comments. I would hate to see it degenerate to the standards of other detecting forums.

Cheers spinna
p.s. hope to catch up with you next winter

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Post  Guest Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:52 pm

well said spinna

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Post  Guest Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:16 pm

I never realized that "human nature" varied from "state to state". Maybe it has something to do with all us "eastern state" prospectors originating from the convict ships Smile Smile Smile

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Post  FoolsGold Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:17 pm

Not all are tared with the same brush, as would be the same of the WA's. Did hear about a bloke that went to WA this detecting season and got busted being where he should not have been, serves him right, he new the rules. They took all his gold off him, even though he reckon a lot of it was found on other trips, for some reason he keeps carting a lot of his gold around with him!

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Post  HueyDuck Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:33 pm

Hello Cocky,

You cant come on this forum and blaze away at us easterners and not expect to get your feathers ruffled, much RESPECT to the above easterners that acted like men and they know who iam am talking about, adhered to the forum rules and didnt let it decend into a verbal stoush!!!!!

I signed up to this forum to respect other forum members and to treat everyone as a friend.......

Management will be watching this thread very closely too!!!!!!! Suspect !!!!!!!

Plucka Duck....
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Post  Guest Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:36 pm

that's it HueyDuck,
people have helped me big time on this forum and i have help a few my self... this is what this forum, not for having people saying this to other prospecters isn't on. fair enough they didn't do what they are ment to but why slag other state prospecters for one person that done wrong...
cheers
stoppsy

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Post  Guest Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:42 am

I haven't been detecting in WA and probably never will. I have been there on business and was in awe of the size and remoteness of most of the state.
To the average eastern state "grey nomad", Tengraph and it's associated programs would be as difficult to navigate as the ATO's website.
Leaving aside the alleged indiscretions of these folks on leases, I wonder how much money they contribute to WA's outback econony.
Unfortunately, I believe you would need to be a qualified surveyor in some instances to know exactly where you are with regard to a lease.
I certainly don't condone "fence jumping". There is enough of it happening here in the Golden Triangle.
Screeching up in your big 4wd and mouthing off threats at people isn't the way to get them to do as you ask. Try educating them in a respectful manner and see how much more cooperative they are.
I do agree that the laws must be tightened to stop the cowboys tying up land for years and using it for tax breaks. All we need as a handful of politicians with some balls and ethics. More chance of finding a 100 ounce slug I'd say.

Have a great day

Robert

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Post  Guest Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:04 am

Gday


For starters I wouldnt peg the Eastern staters as being the only ones to do the wrong thing, I am sure that there are a few who flaunt the rules but from my own experiences I have seen first hand many locals doing the wrong thing as well, and some do far worse than sneak about poaching a few nuggets.

What we have here in a nutshell is people have changed for the worst, is it just me or have others seen the slow but progressive changes to the attitudes of many people these days, lack of respect, both for their families, fellow citizens, and for the law, the reason is simple, we took the discipline away from schools, we have made it illegal to discipline your children, and slowly but surely people have become accustomed to doing what they like and thinking that they are entitled to get and take what they want without having to pay or work for it themselves, with a 'whats yours is mine attitude".

This attitude has infiltrated our whole society and we regularly see our politicians, judges and police in the soup for one thing or another, even our politicians are not afraid to knife someone quite publicly and then ask to be voted in, and do get voted in, as peoples attitudes have changed many would have simply seen this as a means to an end and still voted for this person anyway, twenty or so years ago this sort of action would not have been tolerated on a moral basis in our society and this person would have been seen as a villain and their political career would have been at an end.

So having said this how are we to expect that the general public are going to do the right thing when our leaders and the people we should be looking up to are not doing the right thing either, there are as many lease holders that are doing the wrong thing as well, I have seen first hand the "do as I say dont do as I do" attitudes of some of these people, there are some who have their own leases but regularly patrol everything else in the area and act as the local authority, bullying people with threats and fines for being there, with or without them having permits, I have had one deny that he had ever heard of a 20a permit and then went on to say that if "we want you out here we will get you out of here", this is the same clown that scraped the place without permission the year before illegally and had no right to the place himself, true story, so its happening on both sides of the fence.

The other issue is of course the speculators that are tying up huge tracts of land and not even doing anything apart from the odd bit of drilling etc just to keep the lease in place, you might say well what about the ground that is not under one lease or another, any ground that is available is usually barren or unproven, if it was worth anything it would be under a lease already wouldn't it?.

I guess some people think that its all too hard to follow the rules and also might feel that it always seems to be us that have to put in all the effort to do the right thing and have permission, and know where we are, but can also see that the people who are further up the chain are not doing the right thing themselves so its no real surprise that its become a free for all.

cheers

stayyerAU






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Post  Guest Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:55 am

stayyer hi
what you say is right,people not doing the right thing its every where and corruption goes all the way to the top. the mob i work for in recent years 2 managers have been shown off the premises for stealing from the company
dave

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Post  kon61 Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:58 am

G'day StayyerAU.

Well said.These days respect for one another is truly going out the window.This i feel,is getting worse,not only with the existing,but with each new generation as well.It's becoming a nation of all for one and none for all.The more one acquires,the more one wants.Where does it stop? So much for the saying; "Love thy neighbor as thy self".

Cheers kon61.
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Post  TheH0ward Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:41 pm

as a new gold prospector, id hope if ever i wandered onto the wrong piece of land that someone would politely explain what ive done wrong and where perhaps i could go, instead of attacking me with all guns blazing Neutral
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Post  Guest Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:34 pm

Are more "Eastern State Prospectors" doing the wrong thing in W.A

or

more "Western Australian Prospectors" doing the wrong thing in W.A



Me thinks the answer is probably "about the same"








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Post  Jigalong Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:17 pm

I think Birdman is right.

Rich Eastern Staters are ripping off the gold that rightfully belongs to the struggling, scrupulously honest fossickers of WA. It stinks, so how should we stop it ? Charge Eastern Staters a special $1000 fossickers Licence, or maybe only let them remove one ounce of gold in any one month period ? Or maybe make it illegal for Eastern Staters to operate a detector in WA - that would fix the mongrels right up.

And while we are at it, it's an Eastern Sate company that is ripping the money out of Sandgropers, charging them $6500 for a detector.

The more I think about it, the angrier I get. We don't need them, or their thieving ways. Go Home.
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