Re: GPZ7000 up-date.

Reefdog Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:41 am

Here is a photo of yesterday finds.

Forgot to mention the 30 cal. slug pictured. Zed absolutely screamed on that one! Dug a monster big hole in shitty rock and it was bloody hot too! Thought I was on for sure!

Mmmm...... they sure sound like gold don't they?

Cheers

GPZ7000 up-date. - Page 3 20151013

slimpickens Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:32 pm

Hi all, tried out the Zed with the update today. I have been using Bogene's settings for the last couple of months because of the erratic threshold. This enables me to whack the sensitivity up to twenty with the thresh-hold on 5. Runs as quiet as a mouse and yet still picks up #9 bird shot in High Yield, low smoothing, difficult soil setting. Today I tried the thresh-hold on 27 but there was no difference, still erratic. Did the correct ferrite jig as well. It only smoothed out (and not completely) when I dropped the sensitivity down to around 12, which really isn't using the Zed's full potential. I'd like the thresh-hold to be as smooth as in Stopsy's video he posted yesterday in Members Finds titled "good day out with the wife now with vid" If it ain't running as smooth as Stopsy's Gpx 5000 in that video then it's useless to me. So I went back to Bogene's settings. Will have to keep experimenting till I can smooth out that thresh-hold, and to find out if I am losing any depth with the thresh-hold on 5. study

**Question to all that are now happy with their thresh-hold smoothness: Is your Zed running as smooth as Stopsy's Gpx 5000 in that video? And, have you had to lower your sensitivity to get it that smooth?

Picked up this little specie at about 4 inches, so the day wasn't totally wasted.

GPZ7000 up-date. - Page 3 15101910

Martin R Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:43 pm

Has anyone worked the Z with the upgrade in hot ground that is wet or damp at all ?
Just wondering if ML managed to fix the falsing under those conditions

Marty

aussiedigger Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:01 am

Martin R wrote:Has anyone worked the Z with the upgrade in hot ground that is wet or damp at all ?
Just wondering if ML managed to fix the falsing under those conditions

Marty

Good question Marty

ad...

Guest Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:31 pm

Hi Slimpickens,
Could you pass on Bogene's settings please or thread address please.

Used my 7000 in WA no probs found small gold ( pin head size) and from memory was stable but the closests town was 5Km to 70Km away so minimal electrical interference. In Vic ( Tarnagulla around 3km from the closest house) after the update had constant static, had the sensitivity down to 10 and the threshold at 26, in hindsight should have reduced the threshold. Ground Balance was Auto, Audio smoothing Low and Volume 15. With High Yield and Ground type difficult. Still found small pieces of rubbish but is was not a happy detecting situation.

Thanks

Peter

slimpickens Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:20 pm

PeterInSa wrote:Hi Slimpickens,
Could you pass on Bogene's settings please or thread address please.

Used my 7000 in WA no probs found small gold ( pin head size) and from memory was stable but the closests town was 5Km to 70Km away so minimal electrical interference. In Vic ( Tarnagulla around 3km from the closest house) after the update had constant static, had the sensitivity down to 10 and the threshold at 26, in hindsight should have reduced the threshold. Ground Balance was Auto, Audio smoothing Low and Volume 15. With High Yield and Ground type difficult. Still found small pieces of rubbish but is was not a happy detecting situation.

Thanks

Peter

Hi Pete, I don't know his complete settings, but what works for me, and I don't think I'm missing anything, is to drop the thresh-hold to 5 and up the sensitivity to 20. It runs very quiet. Cheers Harry.

kevlorraine2 Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:35 pm

hi peterinSA and slimpickins -

i have been useing "bogene" settings with the 7000 also, check under my username, you will find i been successful finding gold over the last couple of months.
pererinsa - to my knowledge, there is no such things as bogene settinggs for the 7000, it just means you are turning off the threshold to around 1, or at least lowering it to single digits.

today i went out testing my machine after doing the minelab upgrade. did the optopus dance with the ferret etc. initially i used the machine -- auto GB, threshold 1, highyield, difficult, and everything else at factory preset. i couldnt notice any difference with the machines response, to what was before the upgrade. then upped the threshold to the factory preset of 27. i found a HUGE improvement in stability of constant threshold noise. was impressive, so i then changed a few knobs to my personal likes of ------ threshold 24, highyield, difficult, smoothing low, target volume 15, max volume 12, sensitivity 19, tone 54.

i was able to detect with these settings for the next two hours and enjoy it. for the first time ever with the 7000. didnt have to touch the quicktrack button once, in a poor for gold area, which i have cleaned up lots of rubbish over the years, i still managed to find ahalf dozen pieces of lead, nails, rusty metal.

so i can only conclude, i am happy with the upgrade, i might even try useing my machine, as per normal next time out... kev

Guest Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:18 pm

Thanks Harry and Kev,
The problem that I have is that Dave of Davesgold has his machine purring like a kitten at Tarnagulla ie (It now runs with a stable threshold at around 27 which is the FP and gain at any where between 11 to 14 and low audio smoothing, it was even very good with audio smoothing off.)

My experience from the Minelab 15000 on, was to up the threshold until you can just hear it and monitor changes(very slight in some instances) that could indicate a signal/gold, so with a very low threshold setting on my 7k, I will not be able to do this.

Thanks again for your info and Dave's info for comparison.

Peter

slimpickens Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:28 pm

kevlorraine2 wrote:
so i can only conclude, i am happy with the upgrade, i might even try using my machine, as per normal next time out... kev

G,day Kev, after running the Zed with the threshold on 5 when the only noise you will hear will be a target, it's hard to go back to a high threshold and listen to it make it's noises even if it is running smooth most of the time. There will always be something to upset it, and you have to ask yourself all the time: was that a target? I know it will pick up the obvious targets with the high threshold, it's the iffy, quiet ones that I like to hear. Oh well, more testing.

Pete in SA.
I understand you can smooth out your threshold by lowering the sensitivity, but we didn't buy $11000 machines to dumb them down to GPX levels, Q41

just so it will work smoothly.
Hopefully the threshold will work smoothly when I try a different gold area, I've only tried it in one particular goldfield since the upgrade.

kevlorraine2 Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:02 pm

I know it will pick up the obvious targets with the high threshold, it's the iffy, quiet ones that I like to hear. Oh well, more testing.
------------ gotta agree with the above slimpickens, thats the way i like to detect also. i noticed with my machine (and my hearing) that 27 was way to noisy, 24 lowered the threshold to bearable levels, and 23 was practically quiet, so i will try just below that to see if there is any "benefit of both worlds".
threshold for me at 1 made the signal, sharper, and maybe for some people that is no good (swinging to fast?)
happy hunting ... kev

Guest Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:16 pm

slimpickens wrote:
kevlorraine2 wrote:
so i can only conclude, i am happy with the upgrade, i might even try using my machine, as per normal next time out... kev

G,day Kev, after running the Zed with the threshold on 5 when the only noise you will hear will be a target, it's hard to go back to a high threshold and listen to it make it's noises even if it is running smooth most of the time. There will always be something to upset it, and you have to ask yourself all the time: was that a target? I know it will pick up the obvious targets with the high threshold, it's the iffy, quiet ones that I like to hear. Oh well, more testing.

Pete in SA.
I understand you can smooth out your threshold by lowering the sensitivity, but we didn't buy $11000 machines to dumb them down to GPX levels, just so it will work smoothly.
Hopefully the threshold will work smoothly when I try a different gold area, I've only tried it in one particular goldfield since the upgrade.

PeterInSa wrote:Thanks Harry and Kev,
The problem that I have is that Dave of Davesgold has his machine purring like a kitten at Tarnagulla ie (It now runs with a stable threshold at around 27 which is the FP and gain at any where between 11 to 14 and low audio smoothing, it was even very good with audio smoothing off.)

My experience from the Minelab 15000 on, was to up the threshold until you can just hear it and monitor changes(very slight in some instances) that could indicate a signal/gold, so with a very low threshold setting on my 7k, I will not be able to do this.

Thanks again for your info and Dave's info for comparison.

Peter

Before the update I was running the 7000 in single digit threshold and it had no trouble cracking through the silent threshold as a signal, I was mainly doing it this way before the update to get away from the "noise" the machine used to make. You do need to swing a bit slower that's for sure. Low and Slow really applies with a silent threshold, and even with threshold this 7000 needs to go somewhat slower than what were used to with a Mono on the 4500/5000's

Since the update I have been using it with threshold at FP (27 to 30) depending on the wind and just using the WM12 as the sound system. I did try low threshold as well to see how it went and it worked just like before no worries, in the end if the threshold is good and stable like now I don't mind using it up around 27 or so, because its a real bugger if something stops working when in silent mode, you just cant tell is not working, because you can't hear it. Laughing

cheers dave

Tributer Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:06 am

After returning from Laanecoorie I finally got my upgraded 7000 back to a local area with different ground types in it where I have used the 7000 on extensively before the upgrade.

Pre upgrade I always had smoothing off, threshold 26-29 , sensitivity 10-12, difficult ground, high yield (sometimes I ran normal with lower sensitivity). Pre upgrade the above settings were chattery on the moderately hot ground and the machine groaned on the hottest clay ground in my local spot. I have run the 2100, 2200, 3500 and 4500 in the same area, so the chattering on the 7000 is nothing compared to the earlier models and I still heard the deeper small gold with the 7000.

Post upgrade on the same settings the machine is definitely smoother and the groaning on the very hot clay spots has diminished substantially. (a 4500 was barely usable on the hottest clay ground due to constant groaning).

Once the upgraded 7000 is tuned and balanced on the ferrite with the machine on auto tracking I have found the balance does not wander and go off balance like it used to. Pre upgrade I always had to rebalance over the ferrite every half hour or so (and it always gave a strong signal when passing over the ferrite each time I balanced again... before it balanced). I think that after digging lots of iron targets with the 7000 pre upgrade it seemed to go off balance heaps.

Post upgrade the balance stays stable, I balanced over the ferrite a few times during my sessions and the machine did not see the ferrite or barely knew the ferrite was there when balancing over it.

There were still a couple times when the balance seemed to go off and would not go back to being as stable as it was earlier in the day. A retune and ferrite balance tamed the machine again.

For crumbing those smaller nuggies ...it is definitely easier to hear the faintest targets now and I did pick up a few 0.1-0.3 tiddlers at a few inches in an area I have flogged in the past and i did get a lot more of those very small steel shotty pellets. It will take a few more sessions to truly know if i am hearing fainter signals with the upgrade, however I believe I am due to a more stable threshold noise.

So the upgrade did help a moderate amount. I would say it was not a silver bullet, but marginal improvement in threshold stability and the machine staying in balance better is what i need to make long detecting sessions comfortable. With the improved stability i can get myself into the zone and hear the faint signals, where as before the changing balance and less stable threshold was too hard on my brain to keep long periods of concentration picking up those faint and those very faint miss a beat, half broken type signals.
cheers Steve

Troopy Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:59 am

A great report Steve, thankyou.

Ash100456 Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:10 pm

Thanks for your warts n all report on the upgrade Tributer. Am going to tryout the upgrade here (long way from the goldfields) but it would be better to try in one of your own known ground/gold spots to see the difference. My way of thinking and experience with the Zed, Love my Zed and any improvement is a total plus. Thanks again.

Cheers
Ashley

kon61 Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:13 pm

Agreed. The newly designed algorithmic program update,might not be a huge improvement on coil/ground,or even threshold stability,but an improvement none the less.
Some would have also noticed that after downloading the new Exchange 2 software program,required or might have required,the re-calibrating of the WM11 Modem to the 7000,for audible signal response once more.This is easily achieved by getting into your detector screen settings and switching the WM11 Modem from the "Off" position,back to the "On"
One last thing I'd like to add,concerning Threshold vs Gain (sensitivity). No matter what type of ground conditions one encounters in or on any gold field environment,always and I mean always,work with the highest possible Gain,tolerable to the individual and not vice versa.
Although both Gain & Threshold play an important role towards ground noise/stability/signal response and depth,decreasing detector Gain (so as to compensate for ground mineralization stability) as compared to decreasing "Threshold", has far greater detrimental effects,towards the loss of both sensitivity,as well as depth over targets,than when having threshold set,even to an absolute minimum.

Cheers Kon. Q11

Guest Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:35 pm

Re (the re-calibrating of the WM11 Modem to the 7000,for audible signal response once more.)

Good point Kon, did my update in the Vic goldfields and afterwards the speaker did not work, first thought that flashed thru my mind, " What have I done! now will have to use the 45" then quickly realised I would have to re connect the WM11.

Guest Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:50 pm

Mine is a WM12 you blokes must have the older model you need to update. Laughing

kon61 Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:25 pm

Ah yeah.Well ah yeah,what he said. Q33

I told that young fella,not to mix my drinks. Shocked

Cheers Dave, Kon. Q11

Ahhhh,that's better. cheers

Brett J Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:32 pm

Hi Guys ,

I did the up grade last week and had the exact same conclusion that you have all reported back so makes me feel better that my conclusion that I came up with is identical to you all, so Thanks

Did find a small .09 piece down a couple of inches and am happy with my 7000.

Dare say there will be more upgrades as time goes on. Ground balance was a huge improvement. bounce

Martin R Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:21 pm

aussiedigger wrote:
Martin R wrote:Has anyone worked the Z with the upgrade in hot ground that is wet or damp at all ?
Just wondering if ML managed to fix the falsing under those conditions

Marty

Good question Marty

ad...

Well AD

I did manage to get out onto some hot ground and what do you know it was Bloody raining wasnt !!! GGGRRRRRRRRRR
needless to say to upgrade did some what fix the falsing but not completely , still I managed to get a 3.8gr piece only to loose it in my vehicle when I place it on the dash mat and when breaking down hill the nugget slipped into the abyss of my dash venting system Sad

and let me tell you on a 100 series Landcruiser to get it back means I have to take the seats out to get to the lower console mounts to be able to get to the dash mounts to pull the dash out big job to say the least , but headding out again next week it might just have to wait for my down time

BTW wanna come down for 3 days next week Terry ??

Marty

Jay Gold Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:54 pm

Martin, that sucks!! Spewing about the lost nugget!! Hopefully more come your way again soon.

jarrahrules Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:17 pm

I only just found out from a friend about the update.
I would have thought that minelab would contact buyers via email. I bought it new.
They could also keep there database up to date when people say they have sold them.

coreytroy Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:21 pm

Martin R wrote:
aussiedigger wrote:
Martin R wrote:still I managed to get a 3.8gr piece only to loose it in my vehicle when I place it on the dash mat and when breaking down hill the nugget slipped into the abyss of my dash venting system and let me tell you on a 100 series Landcruiser to get it back means I have to take the seats out to get to the lower console mounts to be able to get to the dash mounts to pull the dash out big job to say the least ,

Marty
But on the positive side of things, the cruiser has increased in value by a couple of dollars

yellowfin Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:46 pm

alchemist wrote:Top notch Minelab, you are the best, no doubt about it!

Thank you

Depends on your point of view I guess
Sell me a detector for 10.7k that's clearly a beta release that screams like a banshee
and was probably not fit for release.
Give me a load of white papers followed by a ferrite and then take 8 months to come up with a firmware update that calms the thing down.

Rather than thank ML why not ask the following
Why was the initial problem not reported by the testers?
Or was it?
Why was it released in the state it was?
Maybe to get the $ in the books by June 30
So are they now telling me I've been swinging this thing for 8 months and it wasn’t working at optimum
performance?
I'm still stuck with the ferret and octopus dance

Damn it's a bit like being told to grab your ankles by the boss, and then thanking him for the rogering.

Jonathan Porter Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:52 pm

Plenty of people out there have done extremely well with their out of the box 7000s in the past 8 months, I know because a lot of my favorite detecting places have been Rogered by them since March. Looks like those spots will again be receiving another rogering now the latest software has been released.

Get used to it folks, Minelab intend to fully support and improve the GPZ 7000 regardless of what the malcontents say.

JP

Ash100456 Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:29 am

"Minelab intend to fully support and improve the GPZ 7000" Thanks Jonathan, That's what we want to hear. Making the Zed even better !

Cheers
Ashley

alchemist Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:16 am

yellowfin wrote:
alchemist wrote:Top notch Minelab, you are the best, no doubt about it!

Thank you

Depends on your point of view I guess
Sell me a detector for 10.7k that's clearly a beta release that screams like a banshee
and was probably not fit for release.
Give me a load of white papers followed by a ferrite and then take 8 months to come up with a firmware update that calms the thing down.

Rather than thank ML why not ask the following
Why was the initial problem not reported by the testers?
Or was it?
Why was it released in the state it was?
Maybe to get the $ in the books by June 30
So are they now telling me I've been swinging this thing for 8 months and it wasn’t working at optimum
performance?
I'm still stuck with the ferret and octopus dance

Damn it's a bit like being told to grab your ankles by the boss, and then thanking him for the rogering.

If you only have one tool in your tool box and it's a carpentry chisel, using it as a screwdriver could be a bit of a struggle, taking the edge off your chisel, and munting your screws in the process.

The Z is like that chisel, one needs to develop a bit of skill to use it correctly for the job in which it excels.

You know, I can detect a 5c piece at 18" in my house 25 meters away from a 50kV mains transformer in the street, you know the really amazing thing?...........? with a gain of 1, that's right ONE. No way can you do this with a GPX, even in cancel you have the wailing banshees masking any response over 6"
I honestly think too many people overdrive the Zed and then put the blame on the machine for the erratic behavior.

Work out which jobs are best approached with a chisel and learn to use it skillfully to accomplish the task.

I'm not ribbing you, I know some machines are a little touchy, but what I said still stands.
I'm unsure how Minelab do the final setup at the factory, but I'm hoping by now they use a bed of nails with fully automated digital pot fusing and diagnostics, so performance spread should be minimal.

I also believe the coil is a very precise piece of engineering and it must be treated with a lot of care and respect, it's more like a piece of laboratory equipment now, and doesn't have the industrial site robustness of the previous models.

There are techniques to overcome obstacles but you still need faith in your tools to execute them well

I know this all sounds condemnatory, but many of us have become attuned to our GPZs, and the update has just put a fresh cutting edge on the blade.

A.

Jay Gold Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:20 pm

Never a more honest word spoken. Q33

slimpickens Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:29 pm

alchemist wrote:

I honestly think too many people overdrive the Zed and then put the blame on the machine for the erratic behavior.

A.

I understand what your saying here alchemist, but I think we should always be trying (experimenting) to get the most out of the Zed, if for no other reason than to keep ahead of the GPX users. No point in dumbing it down to GPX levels. Sir Bruce gave us a sensitivity switch that goes up to 20 for a reason. We bought it only because we were told it's a more powerful beast.... which it is! You can't always drive your new Ferrari like a Corolla, at some point you have to give it some stick! Laughing

hugh62 Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:49 pm

Does any one know with this upgrade ,will it still be applicable ,when and if bigger coils become available for the GPZ 7000 ? Just curious .

GPZ7000 up-date.