GPZ7000 up-date.

alchemist wrote:Thanks heaps Jase for sharing your hard earned.
Contrary to what I believed, but I may just have to give the old hens a go if I'm leaving gold behind.

Cheers
Kev.

Kev the best thing to do is trial zed over undug gold targets at depth. Listen closely to the response and memorise it. Try what I do personally and and also, however you have operated in the past. I do things that I feel gets me the most and you should too.
There are a few little things I've seen that helps operating zed but I can't write it down it's things that you can only show and need to hear it.

UTBN wrote:
There are a few little things I've seen that helps operating zed but I can't write it down it's things that you can only show and need to hear it.

Sounds like the perfect scenario for an instructional video


Putting your hand up for that UTBN?



There are many here that would appreciate that

Mate I'd really like to do that but I can't right now due to a few things around me but at years end I could organise something. Honestly I think they're the basics but ya never know. What I should video is gold targets not recovered and show a variety of settings which you will hear the response sounds along with the crucial coil swing. This would be important info.
In fact I will try to do it at some point at years end I just need to check if that's ok first. Sounds strange but you'll see why one day.
if there's someone else out there who is doing something similar with zed they could possibly do it.

Cheers UTBN, looking forward to anything you can put together
I'm currently guilty of swinging my Zed like the 5000, still getting stupidly small bits at depth but I shudder at what I may have missed

Jase , out of interest what do you set your TH and Threshold Pitch to Std = (27) , (53) also in your Videos your only seen with headphones and no ext booster set up any reason why ?
Would you say that your Z swing speed is close to swinging a DD with the X series , or slower still ?

Forgot to add is there a gain to be had from manual GB v auto GB as far as outright depth goes ?

Cheers Marty

Martin R wrote:Jase , out of interest what do you set your TH and Threshold Pitch to Std = (27) , (53) also in your Videos your only seen with headphones and no ext booster set up any reason why ?
Would you say that your Z swing speed is close to swinging a DD with the X series , or slower still ?

Forgot to add is there a gain to be had from manual GB v auto GB as far as outright depth goes ?

Cheers Marty

G'day Marty, fwoar just freed a bit of gold outta cap rock. Size of 5 cent coin but thin as a razor. I would never have bothered with that had I known. 2 bloody hours
Yeah I would rather use headsets as I get signals straight into the ears. I've got slight industrial deafness. Working underground with no earplugs. but anyway this time of year it's cooler to go just with module for me. Speaking of which I'm getting one modified. Will see how that goes.
Threshold level I have set at 26. Prolly could take it up a little since upgrade has stabilised zed noticibly enough but I'm happy with it. The pitch I've set at 65 and have had it that way since the start.
With swing speed if I'm on a rich area I swing incredibly slow. Like nothing I've done in the past. When I search an area I know well and first time in there with zed, I swing a fair bit quicker until I get a hit then go at a crawl if numbers are there. In regards to GB I've never used it in fixed permanently just a brief trial. I personally felt auto went exceptionally well for my use. I don't personally think there may be a depth increase because of that however.
Obviously the more stable zed is the more you can ramp sensitivity up which gets you more depth in conjunction with whatever gold modes/ground types you can use for that area. As I've mentioned I feel zed has always been stable for me, hence my ramped settings.
Hopeful that made sense lol it's been a long day.

G'day Martin

Manual ground balance requires a detector operator to re-ground balance manually,more often/regularly,so as to achieve maximum coil/ground stability,as compared to when operating in auto ground tracking.
Now,because we all should have noticed by now,it takes 2/3 swings of a coil,in auto tracking,to cancel out false ground signals (such that of when encountering a localized,hot pocket of mineralization) a much slower and overlapping swing speed is required,in auto GB,to achieve the same or similar results as that of manual GB.
If both auto/manual ground balance are performed correctly,they will or should achieve,pretty much the same result in/on ground & over targets.

Cheers Kon.

Jase , Kon
Thanks for that
Like you I also run a high pitch 64 also have done so from day 1 , I used to run 2 numbers (11) higher from std Sensitivity of 9 but since the upgrade 14 or more is no problem , whats the rule when it comes down to higher gain should one lower the TH to decrease noise?
AvM GB looks like that there is no gain to be had running anything other than Auto with the Z , been using it on and of to try but again since the upgrade auto just purrs , No smoothing for me either was never a friend of it from the beginning but I had to use it the other day as I was working close to an operating mine and the interference was horrible

Jase since you dont run a booster either whats this Module mod your talking about ?

Marty

Marty, your using audio smoothing exactly how I would in the very odd instance. Emi
When it comes to your sensitivity level it really is up to you. I personally always run high numbers. And that was the same for gpx series but with gain, always high.
People say running high gain/sensitivity numbers can mask those faint targets. I have a different opinion. This is what I'd like to have video footage of particularly. But each to their own. I've always trained people my way and show it in the field so they can hear it themselves.
I use the chatter or continuous breaches of threshold as my actual threshold. An old fella I know for a few years refused to change from his stable threshold way. He didn't like the chatter threshold but eventually he saw the benefits and runs it that way now.
If the ground is wooooooing when swinging I must reduce sensitivity to control this.
In regards to the module mod, it's just a basic change and a fix to a ongoing problem I've had. I'm getting a different speaker fitted and also hoping that the new speaker does not start moving around in the module creating a distorting noise I keep getting after prolonged use.
It should be close to being sent back to finders keepers.
I'm off to a new place and may be busy until the weekend.

While I'm sitting here waiting for someone thought I'd share a tip.
Pin pointing loud response targets.
Best way I've come up with and perhaps someone may have better way, is on your start up page turn sensitivity down to 1 and your main volume down to 1 also.

UBTN,  and others here, thanks for all the information that is being stated here. I have read and reread these posts numerous time trying to learn any new information how others are operating there zeds.
i hope and others too are probably waiting to see you doing some movie of how you are using your machine and the noises and the settings to go with the noises, as that is a key to the operation of these units. They are different than operating a gpx machine.   We found as you stated that it is almost painful just how slow you need to swing the coil to keep it from the whooshing and also eratic type noise that it makes if too quick, especially over the not so even ground.
thanks for yours and others continued imput, as the negative knockers really just want some of us to stop posting the good things about the machine. By the way we would never get rid of ours, and while the knockers are out there just bagging them that leaves more yellow for those that jumped on board and purchased a new machine.
And we will have to try your tip for pinpointing.
TG

Hi all, I got this signal on the side of a mullock  heap this morning. Strange thing was that I got it in High Yield with a nice sounding signal. ( On 5 Threshold and 20 Gain), flicked it to General and it was only half as loud. Then flicked it over to Extra Deep and it was only about a third as loud as  in High Yield. At a measured 12 inches out popped a pathetic 1.8 gram nugget, the signal was booming in and I expected either junk or a nice nugget, but that's all it was.  
My question is: Why was it louder in High Yield at such a depth for such a small nugget?  















Also found a .38gr and a .07 gr.( Which cost me a bullant sting)    So the Zed is working just fine thanks.

Slimpickens as to your question why?
Your using the most powerful gold mode coupled with high sensitivity levels producing clearly an audible response.
I believe without doubt the most powerful gold mode is high yield followed closely by general.
You ran your sensitivity at 20 which is what I've been doing since the early days to current. I'm presuming you were in difficult ground type so that combo is really the one to go to in ground that has a lot of hot rocks or noisy type ground.
If I come across very noisy ground o go to general/difficult and try to run sensitivity at 20 but if the woooooing sound is there I back it off until it's a constant chatter. Normally worst case I go as low as 15 in that scenario. Others may dispute what I have said and that's fine. Put up what gets you success

Hi Jason, there seems to be a lot of variables which alters which mode will be better on the day. Last week I got a 1.2gr nugget at 5" that High Yield barely heard but was loud and clear in General and Deep, work that one out. I always run the soil timing in difficult, if I put it in Normal, I start picking up hotrocks. Interesting that you think High Yield is the most powerful, you obviously don't mean it's the best setting for whoppers at depth, do you?

slimpickens wrote: you obviously don't mean it's the best setting for whoppers at depth, do you?

Wasn't there a slug found early in the piece in WA with the Z in HY ?

Has anyone being able to run Normal where they are detecting ?

M.

Martin R wrote:
Wasn't there a slug found early in the piece in WA with the Z in HY ?


M.

Yes Marty, but does that alter what Bruce states in the manual, which is "Extra Deep for large nuggets at depth"

I've pulled out junk at about two foot in High Yield, so I know it goes deep, but how deep would "Extra Deep" get the same target?

G'day Slimpickens mate I'm def not doubting you I have to take your word over that 1.2 grammer at 5 inches. But something sounds not quite right. It's just to me it would have to be incredibly noisy ground not to receive a response and signal lost in a loud WOOOOOOOING noise.
Sometimes general to me is the go to mode due to ground conditions being noisy. To me it quietens it down and hey presto there's a nugget there. Using High yield over that same target it could get slightly masked amongst the ground noise. It blends in. To me it doesn't necessarily mean general has more depth or power at all but in that case it handled the ground better after being de sensitised slightly. And the same for extra deep.
Larger bits at depth. To me again it's obvious I need to use high yield first followed by general depending on ground noise.
Extra deep helps operators hear relatively obvious targets due to quietening the surface down. There is a loss of power there. But say a target like a 1.5 oz nugget was at 1.5ft extra deep will struggle to get it I'd say it wouldn't. But general should. High yield certainly a huge chance. But again if ground is noisy your best mode would be general.
Geez I need a drink. Did that make any sense at all?
To Martin yes I've run normal ground type in a number of areas now. High yield/normal slaughters any other combo if you got those grounds.

Yes, definitely happened Jason, but it was High Yield that found the target. But only by me using 5 on Threshold, or I would have missed the tiniest of beeps it made.

Jase , I've hit areas where Gen/Diff has been great but mostly HY/Diff has worked for me how ever I'd love to be working Hy/Normal as its shown me many times over that its the deepest setting by far if only you were able to use it over hot min ground

How do you cope with Hy/Normal in the hot ground of WA ? Come on now whats your secret ;-)

Marty

Martin, in hot ground I don't mate. It's outta control I'd use the next best option in that case and would be hy/dif.
The areas I've used normal just allowed normal to be used with hy. If it started playing up I'd go gen/normal and reduce sensitivity until a point where I'd go back to hy/dif and whack sensitivity up to 20

On another note as far as coil swing high is concerned , I contentiously find myself lowering the coil to the point where it scraps the ground to hear those sub 0. nuggets and anyone saying that they can hear a lets say 0.3gr and swinging 2" above the ground @5"depth, that they can hear it beggs to differ from my camp unless I have a dud unit of-cause

M

Hi, correct me if i am wrong here.
when using high yield the coil sends a certain lenght wave to target and target bounces it back.  Now depending on how big or small the target is will depend if you get signal response. HY will go to certain depths depending on target size.
if we go to other end, deep gold, the signal sent has different wave length and depending on target size will only pick up larger targets deeper. It should also pick up those large targets shallow as well.but not nessecerily small gold
general is somewhere between both of these.
with high yield the machine seems to pick up very small targets at very good depth but there is a limit to where that depth ends. Then if target was large and out of HY reach then gen or deep gold should start to get that target.
in our experience deep gold was pulling larger nuggets that the high yield could not detect. These targets were not solid gold but specemin gold and at extreme depths.  Comparing with a 4500 and 11"coil and 18"round NF advantage coil the 4500 could not detect untill almost a foot of dirt had been removed.
these specemins were containing multi oz of gold but was like sponge gold.
we never dug a solid nugget but think that deep gold would have pulled solid targets at those depth and high yield would not have.
high yield is still our favorite though as gets the smaller stuff that gpx will not pick up at thoses depths that are being seen dug.
this is long winded but is how i think the machine is working.
TG.

The Z is good over spongy gold spec'ies/course gold that the 5k would never see I guess it comes down to the ground on the day as to what settings works best . As a mate of mine said not 10mins ago """ your defending the machine,fair enough,I am simply saying minelab even with upgrades should have their tech guys with simple vids & info at hand in support for their customers""" and I agree with him, but in a way ML are also looking at us to work out what we want fixed etc etc and how best to deal with it

M

Hey Trib from Oberon

How are you coping with the Basalt around Oberon with the Z ?

Marty

the scenario I mentioned about the 1.5 ouncer at 1.5 ft actually happened several days ago. Prolly get busted for this. But I don't care really.
I got a quite strong response in hy/dif I went to extra deep/dif and nothing. Response was lost. Gen/dif did pick it up but nothing like hy did.
The nugget upon retrieval was a solid nugget.
I honestly think that the ground makes one gold mode better then the other in certain situations.
But as a basic test wave your pick over coil using hy/normal then try same in extra deep/normal to see what's more powerful?

Did you guys know this? I read it on another forum

Jonathan Porter, on 25 Oct 2015 - 1:55 PM, said:
It's OK to use either software version without the Ferrite, personally I'd go with the latest version of software because it's so much more refined. Without the Ferrite just make sure you perform the walk and sweep method properly in all the Gold Modes you intend to hunt in. Another thing of interest is the GB now dumps all its info when the Quick Trak button is held in for more than ten seconds, so keep the walk and sweep less than ten seconds ..........or if you want to improve on the result release QuicTrak and then hold in again to further improve beyond the 10 second mark.

JP

slimpickens wrote:Did you guys know this? I read it on another forum

Jonathan Porter, on 25 Oct 2015 - 1:55 PM, said:
It's OK to use either software version without the Ferrite, personally I'd go with the latest version of software because it's so much more refined. Without the Ferrite just make sure you perform the walk and sweep method properly in all the Gold Modes you intend to hunt in. Another thing of interest is the GB now dumps all its info when the Quick Trak button is held in for more than ten seconds, so keep the walk and sweep less than ten seconds ..........or if you want to improve on the result release QuicTrak and then hold in again to further improve beyond the 10 second mark.

JP

JP is not advocating that it is good to not use the ferrite ring. That was in response to a question on my forum asking what a person should do if they had no ferrite ring, and which version of the software would be best to use if that happened.

The dump everything after 10 seconds thing is new and I am surprised it was not mentioned in the update information. If it was I never saw it and so far it seems JPs post is the only source for that information. I assume that is only on the initial use of Quick Trak as it has been said in the past that employing Quick Trak in the middle of a session immediately dumps everything and starts the process out fresh. I do not know that for sure however.

Thanks Steve, I hate it when things get cross posted, context is lost so easily and the quoted text can then start to mean almost anything. In reference to what has been reposted up here, I was giving advice to an operator who did not have access to a Ferrite hence the remarks on my suggested best practice.

Its not mentioned in the owners manual because it's something that is part of the overall GB software process that happens under the hood but I felt compelled to inform people of my own personal work flow if I personally did not have the Ferrite handy.

When Quick Trak is triggered the new GB software operates similar to before but it now prefers a Ferrite to be present for X balance excitation, its now designed this way because most operators are now aware of the Ferrite and have possession of one, I also HIGHLY recommend its use at all times even when it does not seem necessary.

My concern was if an operator held Quick Trak in for too long when Performing the "walk and sweep" they, in my opinion, might be dumping hard earned data. So my personal work flow would be to release Quick Trak and then trigger again, if the process is taking time to finalise, to help keep the process controlled. Same goes for sweeping over the Ferrite, it is better to release Quick Trak and trigger again to accumulate good data if the GB procedure is taking time (salty ground or Saturable soils present).

Hope this helps

JP

Jonathan Porter wrote:Thanks Steve, I hate it when things get cross posted, context is lost so easily and the quoted text can then start to mean almost anything. In reference to what has been reposted up here, I was giving advice to an operator who did not have access to a Ferrite hence the remarks on my suggested best practice.

Its not mentioned in the owners manual because it's something that is part of the overall GB software process that happens under the hood but I felt compelled to inform people of my own personal work flow if I personally did not have the Ferrite handy.

When Quick Trak is triggered the new GB software operates similar to before but it now prefers a Ferrite to be present for X balance excitation, its now designed this way because most operators are now aware of the Ferrite and have possession of one, I also HIGHLY recommend its use at all times even when it does not seem necessary.

My concern was if an operator held Quick Trak in for too long when Performing the "walk and sweep" they, in my opinion, might be dumping hard earned data. So my personal work flow would be to release Quick Trak and then trigger again, if the process is taking time to finalise, to help keep the process controlled. Same goes for sweeping over the Ferrite, it is better to release Quick Trak and trigger again to accumulate good data if the GB procedure is taking time (salty ground or Saturable soils present).

Hope this helps

JP

That all makes sense JP. And welcome back.