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Off topic: Means of potentially lowering Covid-19 complications and death.

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Post  moredeep on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:00 pm

Nothing wrong with adding a bit of graphite to the pencil Adrian.
zinc tablets are great for wound healing ,especially for the good old leg ulcers,helps with that the foggy brain as well Laughing Laughing

cheers   moredeep
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Post  adrian ss on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:34 pm

My pencil is the propelling type with plenty of refills. lol! lol!
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Post  granite2 on Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:17 pm

So far.
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Post  moredeep on Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:37 pm

as long as you don't chew on it ,graphite is bad for you What a Face What a Face What a Face affraid


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Post  olive on Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:26 am

alchemist wrote:Dear Fellow Prospectors,
                                             First, I want to say to all our Victorian friends how we sympathise with you during your forced containment, we all feel for you, whether your frustrations be cabin fever or inability to get some relief from the gold fever. Soon you will be out there again with renewed excitement and vigor, those nuggets will not be safe anymore and the gold price might even be much higher.
Secondly, I want to ask you to put aside whatever political philosophy you adhere to and consider all that I have to say. I can’t stand by and hold my tongue when one of you, your family or friends could die because I didn’t speak out.

It is clear especially in the US, that what a person understands about this virus is directly related to the political leaning of the source from which they glean their knowledge, whether it be from the Left, Right, or straight up and down. Friends this virus is apolitical, it doesn’t care who you vote for, it simply wants to use your body as a breeding platform. Also, how you are treated after contracting this virus is often dependent upon the political leaning of the state authorities and even medical advisors who direct them.

So, let’s put politics aside from this, politics has no business dictating how your Doctor should treat you, they swore to abide by the Hippocratic oath and do nothing that would knowingly harm you, that means we should pay attention to what they are saying, and thousands are saying the same thing, and that is what Adrian recently pointed out, Zinc is a key component to stopping the corona virus and rendering it impotent.

Please don’t throw up your hands and dismiss all this as a crackpot idea before you consider carefully what I have to say, it could save your life.

Zinc is a very potent antiviral, it works by interfering with the transcription machinery of the virus which it uses to replicate itself. All corona viruses and most viruses for that matter share a very similar RNA-dependent RNA polymerase enzyme mechanism or transcription machine. A problem arises though, Zinc must be within the cell before or very soon after the virus gains entry so it can stop it slicing up and rearranging your cells DNA into copies of itself.

Globally, an estimated 2 billion of us have a diet seriously deficient in Zinc. Countries with intensive agriculture production are the worst as heavy cropping depletes ground reserves of this mineral. Even good sources of Zinc such as beef and lamb if raised on deficient land will not nourish you sufficiently.
There is more to the story though. Zinc and other minerals such as Calcium and Magnesium cannot just knock on the door of a cell and gain entry, it requires a transporter molecule with a key to the cell wall. The transporter must lock onto the mineral ion of Zinc, or whatever and channel it into the cell interior where it is then ready and waiting for any unwanted invader.

If you’ve ever suffered night cramps where your muscles lock up in an excruciatingly painful attempt to tear themselves free from ligament and bone, then you were likely experiencing a lack of magnesium in your muscle cells. In the past if you were a diabetic who tend to suffer this regularly you may have been prescribed not magnesium, but quinine. This is because quinine is an ionophore, meaning it is a transport molecule that enables magnesium to enter the cell and relieve the source of the cramp. Quinine can also transport Zinc.

There were many side effects that could occur with heavy or long-term use of quinine, which was the primary malaria drug, so it was purified to chloroquine and then later hydroxychloroquine which has almost no side effects if used in appropriate dosages.
This is one of mechanisms by which Zinc combined with hydroxychloroquine can lessen the likelihood of complications from Covid-19.
Another mechanism by which hydroxychloroquine alone can interfere with the virus is by binding to sialic acid receptors which lessens the availability of the ACE2 cell entry points, stopping the virus outside the cell wall, and thirdly by raising the endosomal pH which like Zinc makes the environment more hostile to the replication process.

Many of the studies purported to show none, little, or even adverse effects from hydroxychloroquine either didn’t use Zinc or they started the protocol much too late and in the later used toxic dosages. Remember I said earlier that Zinc had to be available when the virus entered the cell to offer any benefit. Giving hydroxychloroquine once the viral load has spread to reach a point where breathing difficulty arises, is far too late, and this is what many of the studies did. But contrary to what you will read on many politically biased sources there are loads of studies showing early intervention often reduces the symptoms to that of a simple cold, even in susceptible persons. Links are provided below.

Ultimately, I want to share an interesting point that may have been posted elsewhere, I don’t know, but if so, it will be reinforced. There is a common molecule that is a Zinc ionophore (transporter) and it so happens that if we are deficient in Zinc, we will most likely be deficient in this also. It’s called Quercetin, and it is readily available as a supplement. I would advise anyone who suspects they may have caught the virus and your Doctor will not provide hydroxychloroquine, to take Quercetin along with Zinc preferably well before you feel any chest discomfort. It will not provide the other two mechanisms of action that hydroxychloroquine does, but there’s no harm in trying, it is a simple supplement. Some Doctors also suggest taking Vitamin C along with this as there could be a greater synergistic effect.

This has made me realise I need to increase the amount of seaweed in my garden to ensure my homegrown veges are rich in Zinc and all the other minerals now becoming so depleted in commercial crops.

So, if we pay attention to the Doctors who have no vested interest in all this, some of whom have since been fired from their positions, and or humiliated and discredited by biased governance and politically steered press for simply doing their job of looking out for the good of us, common folk, we will get to the truth.

Politically motivated medical advisors are calling for gold standard study results before they will endorse a treatment regimen, meanwhile people are dying while they wait, the truth is already observationally available and under the circumstances provide abundant proof of the effectiveness and tolerance.
Countries that have employed the Zinc+ hydroxychloroquine protocol early in the disease progression have had fewer deaths.

Off topic: Means of potentially lowering Covid-19 complications and death. - Page 3 DPM


This image is taken from a whitepaper produced by an Association of Doctors numbering over 600, it provides links to dozens of studies showing the benefits of early Zn+HCQ intervention.

Off topic: Means of potentially lowering Covid-19 complications and death. - Page 3 CFR

A link to the Doctors whitepaper, a must-read document from a fully reliable source.
Drs Whitepaper

Direct links to some studies that show benefits if the dosage is not inflated to toxic levels and intervention is implemented before complications onset. Had they also used Zinc orders of magnitude better results could have been realized, because of all 3 modes of operation in action.

Outcomes of 3,737 COVID-19 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine/ azithromycin and other regimens in Marseille, France: A retrospective analysis
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302817

Clinical Efficacy of Chloroquine derivatives in COVID-19 Infection: Comparative meta-analysis between the Big data and the real world
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2052297520300615

Treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and combination in patients hospitalized with COVID-19
https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1201971220305348

Stay safe everyone and we'll see you back in the field.
Kev.

I dont see the Brazil on the second graph ? It's strange because the ratio of number of death for 100 000 person is more than in France (hydroxychloroquine is encouraged in Brazil). So if you thing too that it's possible to cure a viral disease with an antibiotic (azitromycin) good chance Laughing
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Post  Pebbles on Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:03 am

Not wanting to keep flogging the subject, but there a few gullible people here who should read this:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-14/coronacheck-nursing-homes-aged-care-coronavirus-payment-death/12554278


Last edited by Pebbles on Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : missing word)

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Post  adrian ss on Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:31 pm

When a scientist of any kind debunks a claim made by a non professional or non scientist, it is because the claim has not been subject to years of testing , experimenting and proving.
When a non professional debunks a claim made by a scientist they are called Conspiracy theorists.

Are we non Masters or professors supposed to accept blindly everything that is fed to us without question?....That sort of thing usually leads to dictatorships.
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Post  Kon61gold on Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:11 pm

Adrian, your first sentence is quite correct.
As to your second sentence, "When a non professional debunks a claim made by a known scientist, they are called conspiracy theorists?" Well let me ask you, where does the non professional get his/her facts from? For scientists rely on proven scientific facts, not unsubstantiated theory. Is that not what differentiates Doctors/Scientists, from the non professional, without a scientific background?  BTW, a personal view or theory, coming from a non professional, does not make that individuals view a conspiracy theory, for it has to be proven as such.  
All theories or conspiracy theories for that matter, remain untrue, until proven right through facts.
As to your last sentence, "no one is expected to accept everything nor anything that is fed to them blindly", I agree, for if they do, they do it freely through their own accord, through freedom of choice. Hence why Australia & its inhabitants live & abide within/by a democratic system, rather than a socialistic or communistic one.
As for Dictatorships, "man can only be a slave to what ever he allows to overpower him" Once again "Viva Democracy" cheers

Kon. T25
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Post  adrian ss on Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:35 pm

Non professionals can in many instances be very knowlegable. Thousands of non professionals have contributed greatly to scientific research.

Thomas Edison comes to mind.
A self educated inventor and businessman.

He was accredited with the invention of the phonograph, but in fact it was one of his employed inventors who actual created it...But Edison claimed the credit.

People become egotistical and narcissistic whether they attain a professorship in astrophysics etc or are  a boss dunny cart driver.
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Post  Kon61gold on Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:44 pm

Thomas Edison a non professional? I highly doubt that Adrian, for the record number of his patented designs, several of which were latter developed for use in the common world, tells me else wise. Although one of the greatest American inventors/business entrepreneurs of all time & although leaving school with little formal education, even he had to draw knowledge from the sciences of proven fact, in order to put his ideas/inventions into motion. So one cannot say that Thomas Alva Edison, was not a man of science (maybe more of the hands on engineering side of things) but a man of the sciences none the less.


Cheers Kon. T25
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Post  adrian ss on Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:54 am

By non professional I mean he never went to Uni or obtained an engineering degree or formal higher level education. He was self taught and acquired a lot of knowledge in the process......Just like a lot of the so called conspiracy theorists. They (not all of them) have acquired a vast array of knowledge and are quite capable of challenging disruptive ideas from people who believe their training has made them untouchable and who as a result believe they are always right.

I was an Avionics technician in the RAAF fully trained on the instrument systems of 14 different aircraft types. We used to be referred to as Instrument Fitters but Avionics tech sounds a lot more important...Like the rubbish collectors who want to be called sanitation engineers, much better for the ego aye!
I considered myself to be extremely proficient at my job and to my knowledge, never made a mistake in fault diagnosis and repair. As a result of my training I became very self assured and confident in my abilities much to the annoyance of troops who I had to boss about. But on top of all this I never lost track of my willingness to listen to the opinions of others and to act on any suggestions that sounded to have merrit......Like Many people in this world I have aquired a wide range of knowledge during my lifetime on many subjects.
I state my opinions on whatever subject I see fit.....So am I a professional or just some dick who has read a lot? Rolling Eyes
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Post  Kon61gold on Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:58 pm

Lets not confuse theorists from conspiracy theorists Adrian, for I can assure you, the two are worlds apart.
No one is untouchable nor above the law, nor always right Adrian, the only difference that sets people apart are the educated from the non educated & everybody knows that one don't need a degree from a well known university, in order to be educated. As a matter of fact there are many a person out there, professionals making a living from their line of work, without holding a school/Tafe certificate, university diploma or degree.
Also a matter of fact, experienced/skilled hands on operators in any field of work, almost always take precedence, over that of the individual holding a uni degree, but lacking hands on experience/knowledge in a particular field of employment.
Now lets not get above ourselves here Adrian, for he who constantly plays with fire, will at some stage in their life get burnt. This is fact not fiction, for I know of no one who has never made a mistake in ones line of work, during the lifetime of ones employment.
Claiming one has done it all on their own,(like that of some self made millionaires) without any help from any person/place or source, is a mere fantasy/illusion in which one comes to believe in, when in their height of wealth/power, but is far from being the truth, for it takes people to make people.
People can ask to be called or labelled whatever they deem as most appropriate in way of their profession, but competency in a profession, will always take precedence, over that of any university qualifications one holds.
Being born brilliant is only part of the equation, how one goes about towards applying that brilliance in order to achieve a successful outcome, is the other part.
You, might have acquired what you believe is much knowledge over a broad spectrum of subjects in your lifetime, but even that amount of knowledge, is but a hair on your heads worth, compared to the knowledge still out there in existence awaiting to be learned.
True, one does have the right to state whatever opinion on whatever subject they want as being the correct opinion, but only till another comes to challenge them, by proving their opinion wrong.
Adrian, I doubt not that you are a most competent & highly trained professional within your field of work, but when it comes to all of life's experiences, there is so much more to learn & so little a time to learn it in, a time we as humans, simply don't have.

Cheers Kon. T25
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Post  adrian ss on Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:13 pm

Fair enough comments.
I have made plenty of mistakes during my lifetime which probably explains the situation that I am in this day. But during my work as an instrument tech in the RAAF I got it right. They were the best days of my life and would do it all again in a heart beat, if it were possible.
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Post  adrian ss on Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:41 am

Talk about fake news! Who believes the number of covid 19 deaths coming out of Victoria lately. Sound very inflated and dodgy to me. Who is still taking this virus into these Aged care homes and where are they getting it from??

I think Australians at the moment are mushrooms." Kept in the dark and fed on Shite"
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Post  Mechanic on Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:49 am

adrian ss wrote:Talk about fake news! Who believes the number of covid 19 deaths coming out of Victoria lately. Sound very inflated and dodgy to me. Who is still taking this virus into these Aged care homes and where are they getting it from??

I think Australians at the moment are mushrooms." Kept in the dark and fed on Shite"
Adrian, the large spike in deaths was due to other deaths that had already happened and needed to be added to the list. They didn't all happen on that day.

If you're not sure, why not come down here and visit an infected nursing home, that way you can give us your first hand experience during and after. Wink

Cheers Mick

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Post  pablop on Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:39 pm

Fellas, even in lockdown Victoria I don't have enough time to even read what is posted let alone do any further research to add to the discussion.

To put it simply, get a life fellas.
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Post  Kon61gold on Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:58 pm

Adrian, every nation of the world is experiencing the dramatic effects of COVID -19, both on their people as well as the devastating effects COVID-19 has or will have on each nations economy & you think its all one big fat joke or farce? Let me get this straight, our government is spending billions of dollars of tax payers money, doing whatever they can in order to protect people from this horrible deadly strain of virus, that has killed thousands upon thousands, all over the known world, & you think its all a farce?   I can only hope that you never happen to contract this deadly virus, in order for you to get the sound proof you'r after.
It ain't the elderly in nursing homes that are catching & spreading this virus to another, for they are home bound. It is spread through the the carers, nurses or doctors, who have contracted COVID-19 unknowingly (showing little if any signs) whilst travelling from one place to the next. That's how dangerous this virus is.  It is this line of people (carers doctors, nurses, cleaners etc) that I have the most admiration/respect for, knowing the dangers involved, yet persevere in the helping/caring of others that can't help themselves.
Like I'v said to others on here before, you can think up whatever conspiracy theory you like, but don't drag it up on here for debate. Keep it to your self.
Pablop summed it up nicely, for there are many other things to do in life, than sit back worrying about whats going to happen from one day to the next.

Cheers Kon. T25
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Post  adrian ss on Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:57 pm

People are dying from other complications of pre existing medical conditions and when they are found to be covid19+ their deaths are attributed to that.
Anybody carer or otherwise who is covid 19 + should not be going into aged care homes period. They should be quarantined and replaced with healthy carers and staff. All aged care workers should be being tested for the virus every couple of days. They should go directly home after their shift and not come in contact with anybody else and should be extremely virus concious far more so than somebody who is not working with ailing aged people. If they knowingly have covid19 and go to work in an aged care home and transfer the virus to people there and that /those people/persons die then they have commited manslaughter at the very least.
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Post  planetcare on Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:16 pm

Viral claim that only 6% of COVID-19 deaths in the  USA were caused by the virus is flat-out wrong
"When you look at the number of excess deaths this year in comparison with previous years, it's staggering," Dr. William Hanage, a professor of epidemiology at Harvard University’s School of Public Health told Live Science. That's an estimated 228,200 additional deaths in the United States, according to the Weinberger Lab at the University of California, San Francisco. Hanage noted that many of the people who have died so far had nonfatal diseases and would not have perished but for contracting the new coronavirus as well. For instance, someone with diabetes or high-blood pressure might have lived decades longer if they had not contracted COVID-19. Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of preventative medicine and infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Tennessee, echoed the same reality. "The point is that those people would not have died except that they were carried away by COVID," Schaffner told Live Science. 
https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-comorbidities.html
https://weinbergerlab.github.io/excess_pi_covid/#overview
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/01/fauci-debunks-theories-of-low-cdc-coronavirus-death-toll-there-are-180000-plus-deaths-in-us.html

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Post  planetcare on Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:28 pm

adrian ss wrote:
Anybody carer or otherwise who is covid 19 + should not be going into aged care homes period. They should be quarantined and replaced with healthy carers and staff. All aged care workers should be being tested for the virus every couple of days. They should go directly home after their shift and not come in contact with anybody else and should be extremely virus concious far more so than somebody who is not working with ailing aged people. If they knowingly have covid19  and go to work in an aged care home and transfer the virus to people there and that /those people/persons  die then they have commited manslaughter at the very least.

Adrian because of the  sheer number of  infected staff many aged care facilities simply do not have enough trained staff at present. Also some of the infected staff were asymptomatic and hence unknowingly  infected residents.Because of the poor wages many staff  have also been forced to work at multiple facilities to make ends meet.Even testing every couple of days may still not prevent some staff getting infected and  infecting residents because the pcr test can give some false negatives.

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Post  adrian ss on Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:16 am

Looking at the tight and almost worse than prisoner Solitary confinement restrictions on the general public in Victoria, clamping down on aged care workers should be far more restrictive. They are killing people not saving them.
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Post  planetcare on Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:41 am

adrian ss wrote:Looking at the tight and almost worse than prisoner Solitary confinement restrictions on the general public in Victoria, clamping down on aged care workers should be far more restrictive. They are killing people not saving them.

The big problem has been that  very few of the staff until recently have been trained in infection control or the correct use of PPE. Age care workers are now prohibited from working at  multiple facilities. But until  community transmission of covid is reduced to almost zero and likewise the number of active cases then sadly we may still see more residents/workers get infected.Covid is a highly infectious and insidious virus and even some people highly trained in the use of PPE are still getting infected. Their is some good news  at least in the treatment of  critically ill patients where an Australian study has shown that the death rate can be  reduced by up to 1/3 by using steroids.

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