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Off topic: Means of potentially lowering Covid-19 complications and death.

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Post  planetcare on Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:59 am

Mechanic wrote:The 2 papers refer to the treatment being applied at completely different stages, one as early as possible and the other to people already advanced so far they are in intensive care.

So if the results of testing of completely common well known drugs/suppliments won't be available until at least December, when will we see a vaccine? A vaccine will need more testing than well known medications. Don't forget there is no vaccine for the original SARS nor MERS, or the common cold.
How many people will die in the mean time?
How far will the virus spread by then?
How many people have died from effects of HCQ in the 65 years it has been in use? Make sure you set your search engine to find results before 2020.

Cheers Mick

The  protocol in the early intervention paper  must be clinically reproducible and must be validated in a large , randomized, controlled trial.Neither of these conditions have been satisfied!
Also for any clinical  interventions  the priority should be to reduce the death rate and need for ICU for the most vulnerable groups in the community which are people over 70 years of age.
In the early intervention paper the oldest patient was 69 so the paper was in fact biased towards those that would be expected to have the the best clinical outcome!
And this from fig 4 in the paper
Figure 4: The odds of hospitalization of the treated patient group were 84% less than in the untreated patient group, and was statistically significant (p<0.001). The odds of all-cause death of the treated patient group were 80% less than in the untreated patient group, but did not reach statistical significance (p=0.16). CI=Confidence Interval.
Again i stress that their  are NO validated large , randomized, double blind controlled trials with HCQ that show any benefits for treating covid patients. Can you or anyone can show me  otherwise?
Why prescribe a medication when it has no proven benefit for covid?
The best way and in fact the only way at present to reduce the covid death rate is to reduce the  number of new infections particularly amongst the most vulnerable groups.
As for a vaccine we will have to wait for the outcomes of phase 3 trials of the most promising candidates which may be in  Dec.

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Post  adrian ss on Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:21 pm

Ok! OK! now my edache iz a migrain.

Give it a rest or is this going to be a battle of common sense and logic over egoism and of who has the final word.
There has been a lot of good discussion about this topic but in the end no matter what we think, say or do on this issue we are not going change anything.
Leave it to the exsperts.......Is an ex spert a failed spert.....Maybe that should be Ex spurts, Drips under pressure. Very Happy
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Post  dundiggin on Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:55 pm

Good one Adrian,, ex sperts can describe everything about a virus but you can't get bit by the lion if you stay a distance away from it, no matter how much you hypothethise its make up.. We know the lion will bite or kill so why not stay closed up or reinforce the front (wear a mask)fence.. Isolation may invite us to find a joy in the shed or the kitchen or on the verandah watching the lion go by or in the computer room or plant a garden, skip rope, or lift dumbells, or find joy in the bedroom (?) Q39 and when the lion (virus) goes we will be happy out there detecting instead of pushing up daisies.. Q18 Q17 Q16 Q19

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Post  adrian ss on Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:01 am

We have to find other ways to amuse ourselves during lock-downs. ACT is not locked down yet but my wife told me to go play with something. affraid
Anyway I found this ta play with.
Off topic: Means of potentially lowering Covid-19 complications and death. - Page 2 Dscn1711
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Post  moredeep on Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:59 am

You could promote it as a new cure for the virus Adrian Laughing
Then watch it go viral affraid,you'd suck a few million in What a Face


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Post  adrian ss on Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:18 am

It generates quite a bit of ozone and ozone kills air-born corona viruses.
Ozone sterilisation methods are not un-common but ozone is also harmful to our health at particular concentrations.....On the other hand I have inhaled a hell of a lot of ozone in my day and I am still here.

Maybe we should all rush out and buy ozone generator air purifiers. One in the bed room, one in the lounge rm, one in the kitchen, one in the car. Rolling Eyes
The virus does not stay airborn for very long butt.
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Post  adrian ss on Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:39 am

Saw some news on the tele this morning that has made me think that there are DHs out there who have been diagnosed + for covid19 and are doing the rounds of the clubs, pubs and cafes deliberately spreading this virus.
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Post  Mechanic on Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:46 pm

A study done back in 2005 on the original SARS coronavirus using chloroquine as a treatment and preventative.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

Isn't it strange that that back in 2005 chloroquine was effective, but in 2020 it causes people to die!!!! Evil or Very Mad
Yet a vaccine quickly whipped up could be ready by December. $$$$$

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Post  adrian ss on Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:34 pm

337 new cases reported in the entire USA during the past 24 hours.....Victoria had 290+....What the!
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Post  Mechanic on Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:59 pm

They have probably given up testing! They have turned into a crowd of rioting zombies!! Laughing

Where did you get that number from?

According to google:
New usa cases today 55,692, deaths today 1109.
total deaths 162,000
They are at 2-3 times their annual flu deaths already, it is summer and that is with the parkbrake on!

We are halfway to our annual amount(around 400) of flu deaths in covid deaths and that is with the parkbrake on too and we have only just begun here. So far we have had 38 deaths from the flu this season.

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Post  adrian ss on Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:49 pm

Maybe I am reading it incorrectly.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Have an ozone sterilizer on the way. study and learn how ta use it.
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Post  Mechanic on Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:38 pm

If you scroll down to the graph that shows daily cases it is in the 50k+ per day.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

So the count you are referring to is today's count up till now and will grow throughout the day.

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Post  adrian ss on Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:47 am

That's right, count per day.
Victoria's count per day is near 300 on average. In the past week there has been well over 1000.
The % cases per head of population per day is almost the same for Victoria/ Melbourne) as it is for The USA. 0.01 and a bit %.
    Most of the population of Vic live in Melbourne (approx 5 mill). So if you take Melb out of the equation then Vic has bugger all cases.

Seems to me that almost all of Vic beyond Melb & Geelong is devoid of this virus.

Confirmed active cases in the WVPHN catchment region as identified by DHHS are as follows:

Greater Geelong – 164
Colac Otway – 89
Ballarat – 18
Surf Coast – 6
Golden Plains – 13
Horsham – 5
Glenelg – 15
West Wimmera – 2
Ararat – 1
Pyrenees – 2
Moyne – 1
Northern Grampians – 1

So why is the whole of Vic in stage 4 lock down?


Last edited by adrian ss on Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  planetcare on Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:24 pm

Mechanic wrote:A study done back in 2005 on the original SARS coronavirus using chloroquine as a treatment and preventative.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/


The study was done using cell cultures. Its a very different kettle of fish translating cell culture results into invivo results.

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Post  Mechanic on Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:50 pm

And from the conclusion of that report:
"Chloroquine, a relatively safe, effective and cheap drug used for treating many human diseases"

Yet this year it is very unsafe and a vaccine that got whipped up yesterday for a coronavirus(where are all of our other coronavirus vaccines?) and tested on a small hand full of carefully selected people over the last 6~8 months is definitely a much safer option.
I'll take my chances with the virus I think.

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Post  Mechanic on Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:54 pm

adrian ss wrote:That's right, count per day.
Victoria's count per day is near 300 on average. In the past week there has been well over 1000.
The % cases per head of population per day is almost the same for Victoria/ Melbourne) as it is for The USA. 0.01 and a bit %.
    Most of the population of Vic live in Melbourne (approx 5 mill). So if you take Melb out of the equation then Vic has bugger all cases.

Seems to me that almost all of Vic beyond Melb & Geelong is devoid of this virus.

Confirmed active cases in the WVPHN catchment region as identified by DHHS are as follows:

Greater Geelong – 164
Colac Otway – 89
Ballarat – 18
Surf Coast – 6
Golden Plains – 13
Horsham – 5
Glenelg – 15
West Wimmera – 2
Ararat – 1
Pyrenees – 2
Moyne – 1
Northern Grampians – 1

So why is the whole of Vic in stage 4 lock down?
Only Melbourne and metro areas are in level 4 lockdown. The rest of Vic is on level 3 and they are on that cause we like them and don't want to have to put them into level 4.

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Post  planetcare on Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:34 pm

Mechanic wrote:And from the conclusion of that report:
"Chloroquine, a relatively safe, effective and cheap drug used for treating many human diseases"

Yet this year it is very unsafe and a vaccine that got whipped up yesterday for a coronavirus(where are all of our other coronavirus vaccines?) and tested on a small hand full  of carefully selected people over the last 6~8 months is definitely a much safer option.
I'll take my chances with the virus I think.
Their is still no convincing evidence from randomized clinical trials that Chloroquine is useful for treating covid!
Chloroquine is currently being evaluated in many randomized clinical trials including in Australia .This will take time before we know if Chloroquine or combinations with other drugs, vitamins or trace minerals are efficacious in treating covid patients or as a covid prophylactic.
The vaccines have not been whipped up yesterday and all have to go through very, very vigorous testing in animal models and then in human trials starting at phase 1 and then moving to phase 3.
The phase 3 trials will involve testing on up to 50,000 people globally and the results carefully evaluated before the vaccine will be approved for mass vaccination. Yes their are currently no corona virus family vaccines but the ones being developed by some research groups are using some totally new approaches like the Aus ones. Time will tell whether they will work but even if they are only 85% effective then that will be sufficient with mass vaccination to ensure herd immunity.


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Post  adrian ss on Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:07 am

Any truth to the rumours that Vic aged care homes receive from the Gov 25,000 bucks when an inmate dies from Covid19.
Might explain why there seems to be an very unusually high number of aged care home persons are being annotated as death from covid19 on their death certificates. affraid pale pale pale pale
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Post  planetcare on Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:58 am

adrian ss wrote:Any truth to the rumours that Vic aged care homes receive from the Gov 25,000 bucks when an inmate dies from Covid19.
Might explain why there seems to be an very unusually high number of aged care home persons are being annotated as death from covid19 on their death certificates. affraid pale pale pale pale

No!

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Post  adrian ss on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:14 am

How about; A person from aged care home is in hosp being treated for something other than covid19 and has been declared free of the virus and is sent back to the A.C.H. aND DIES THE NEXT DAY AND THE CAUSE ON THE DEATH CERT IS COVID 19??.

Sure hope none of that is true Aye!
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Post  planetcare on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:45 am

adrian ss wrote:How about; A person from aged care home is in hosp being treated for something other than covid19 and has been declared free of the virus and is sent back to the A.C.H. aND DIES THE NEXT DAY AND THE CAUSE ON THE DEATH CERT IS COVID 19??.

That does not happen! Just another wild conspiracy theory!

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Post  davsgold on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:29 am

What were conspiracy theories 6 months ago at the start of all this are no longer conspiracy theories.

Masks won't help (that one was wrong)

Schools and kids are safe and don't really get the virus (that one was wrong)

The boarders won't be shut for long, (well NT has now announced they will be closed possibly for 18 Months)

They are not implementing control tactics (well that one is happening)

And if Chloroquine and other similar drugs are no good at treating Covid19, why did Prince Charles and Boros Johnson use it and why does Trump take it as a precaution measure and how come the Movie stars Tom Hanks and his Mrs were treated with it and all these people recovered very very quickly and no on going suffering and even Boros Johnson was back at running the UK a week after, FFS even with the normal Flu it takes weeks and week to fully recover, go figure.

And why have people with Rheumatoid Arthritis now either taken of the Chloroquine or made to pay the pull price instead of the PBS subsidy for it. They were told that it may be needed to treat Covid19 and needs to be stock piled.

And the worst of all is the WHO (World Health Organization) has said for years the world population needs to reduce by 2/3 (that may yet happen) so if that was the case and is really on there big agenda, why is the Government so worried about saving lives, from looking at it it seems like it is being deliberately spread  in the Aged Care facilities, and this could be saving the Government a big amount on aged pensions, just think about that and is it a conspiracy theory or not.
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Post  planetcare on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:54 am

[quote="davsgold"

And if Chloroquine and other similar drugs are no good at treating Covid19, why did Prince Charles and Boros Johnson use it and why does Trump take it as a precaution measure and how come the Movie stars Tom Hanks and his Mrs were treated with it and all these people recovered very very quickly and no on going suffering and even Boros Johnson was back at running the UK a week after, FFS even with the normal Flu it takes weeks and week to fully recover, go figure.
[/quote]

Their are NO double blind randomized clinical trials that show that HCQ is of ANY benefit in treating covid or preventing  covid infection!
"from looking at it it seems like it is being deliberately spread in the Aged Care facilities"
This is an untrue, shameful and outrageous suggestion!

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Post  dundiggin on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:34 pm

There are at least 3 positives about the Virus: theories,, hopes,, and facts.. Personally I'll stick to facts,, proven facts and in the mean time keep alive the hope of better times virus free... dundiggin Q39

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Post  Kon61gold on Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:09 pm

T04 Fellas, I'll tell you whats unprecedented, never in the history of man, has a government paid people to stay at home, sitting on their rear ends, instead of having them working out in industry, paying taxes. This is why I say you can forget about conspiracy theory.
No matter how this virus came to be, matters not, when every nation of the world is paying a heavy price for its outbreak. Once again conspiracy theory out the door. Governments don't need their economies destroyed first, in order to create new laws for people to abide with, as a matter of fact its the opposite.
Chloro-quine & its constituents might offer some protection against COVID-19 but are far from being guaranteed as a full cure to COVID-19, not to mention the high risk of their side effects.
These are desperate times & people are clinging on to straws, so any form of antidote or prevention of COVID-19 in the form of a preventative measure/cure, is taken by any individual at ones own risk, fully aware of the dangerous side effects that might come about.
Russia is now in the process of registering a full cure to COVID-19, yet the rest of the worlds medical/science practitioners are questioning how, in such a short space of time?  The answer is simple, the Russian cure is at its very early stages of testing & not thoroughly tested on the masses over a long period of time & who knows what consequences the early release of such a cure might have on people over time?
It is a proven fact that the ones working in amongst the thick of COVID-19 caring for others (such that of doctors, nurses, carers of the sick or aged) were or are at the highest risk of contracting COVID-19 & passing it on to others.
The reasons why it has hit the elderly in nursing homes first & hard, is that little attention were paid to the needs of ones caring for such, in the form of protective clothing as well as appropriate procedures being set in place, early on from day one.
Knowing that COVID-19 is a highly contagious virus, all steps towards protecting the sick & elderly or anyone with weak immune systems, were of high priority, but for whatever the reasons/excuses people in-charge of such matters used, were far to slow to act. This is why the virus has taken good hold & this is why we're seeing the number of deaths in nursing or aged care homes.
People not being trained for such is just another good for nothing excuse, used by the ones in charge of such personnel, when the requirements for such an outbreak, required that all or anyone caring for the sick or elderly be properly dressed in such protective clothing, with appropriate measures set in place for the protection of the sick, elderly or anyone with weak immune systems.
Like a stitch in time saves nine, why not take this outbreak more serious, why do governments wait so long to put the utmost precautions/procedures in place, knowing very well what the rest of the world were going through, well before this virus were brought into Australia & allowed to spread through inadequate information/procedures, before action or appropriate measures to contain such a virus were put in place?
A bit to slow/late now & we can't say we weren't warned. We now must do what ever we can, in order to live as well as work through this virus, in the most safest/responsible way & that means adhering to all procedures now set in place.
Take care, do the right thing by one another & look after yourselves people.

Kon.  T25
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Post  adrian ss on Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:06 pm

planetcare wrote:
adrian ss wrote:How about; A person from aged care home is in hosp being treated for something other than covid19 and has been declared free of the virus and is sent back to the A.C.H. aND DIES THE NEXT DAY AND THE CAUSE ON THE DEATH CERT IS COVID 19??.

That does not happen! Just another wild conspiracy theory!


Maybe have a read here. Third post .

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?id=34535&p=41
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Post  planetcare on Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:21 pm

adrian ss wrote:
planetcare wrote:
adrian ss wrote:How about; A person from aged care home is in hosp being treated for something other than covid19 and has been declared free of the virus and is sent back to the A.C.H. aND DIES THE NEXT DAY AND THE CAUSE ON THE DEATH CERT IS COVID 19??.

That does not happen! Just another wild conspiracy theory!


Maybe have a read here. Third post .

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?id=34535&p=41

Pure hearsay and unconfirmed speculation!

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Post  adrian ss on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:03 pm

The people concerned might disagree with you.
Everything we know, learn and teach was at one time hearsay. That is how we communicate. We use sounds to get others to understand what we want.
Words are nothing more than a range of noises.
We sometimes use actions to emphasize what we want. Someone makes a sound that we don't like and so we give them a smack in the teeth to better communicate what we think of the sound/words. Rolling Eyes Laughing
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Post  granite2 on Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:17 pm

Zinc may help with the virus but it certainly helps the male libido.😁
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Post  adrian ss on Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:26 pm

I dun need any additives Very Happy
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