Re: corona virus crisis and detecting

planetcare Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:24 am

Nightjar wrote:
planetcare wrote:
Their is no significant evidence that the BLM protests contributed to the present Corona virus outbreak in Vic. However any large gatherings are not a smart move at the present time.

Which planet did you say you are from???

This is what the Vic chief health officer has stated.
PROFESSOR PAUL KELLY:
"So, there is no evidence that there was— has been any spread from the Black Lives Matter protest. That doesn't preclude the important message: this is not a time to be having mass protests, particularly in Melbourne. The risk of— the fact that we haven't found any more cases from those protests doesn't prove that the protests are safe. And just to be clear, it's not just protests, it's any mass gathering. And so there are very clear and strong restrictions on mass gatherings that are part of this process that's being worked through for those hotspots."

Guest Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:05 pm

planetcare Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:25 pm

davsgold wrote:
planetcare wrote:
This is what the Vic chief health officer has stated.
PROFESSOR PAUL KELLY:
"So, there is no evidence that there was— has been any spread from the Black Lives Matter protest. That doesn't preclude the important message: this is not a time to be having mass protests, particularly in Melbourne. The risk of— the fact that we haven't found any more cases from those protests doesn't prove that the protests are safe. And just to be clear, it's not just protests, it's any mass gathering. And so there are very clear and strong restrictions on mass gatherings that are part of this process that's being worked through for those hotspots."

IMHO he is just saying what he is told to say, FFS if 20,000 people in a protest don't spread Covid19 virus then nothing is. They just want to blame something else, because BLM is another agenda, and in reality has nothing to do with black deaths in custody, just gotta read the facts.

So are you saying that the chief health officer is telling deliberately telling lies? Where is the evidence from contact tracing or genomic sequencing that the BLM protests contributed to the spike in Vic corona virus cases?

Virus spike linked to families, not Black Lives Matter rally
With COVID-19 case numbers on the rise in Victoria, some people have drawn an unsubstantiated link between the spike and the large Black Lives Matter protest held in Melbourne on June 6.
https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/all-news/2020/jun/coronacheck-blm-protests
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-evaluate-coronavirus-risks-from-black-lives-matter-protests/

Research Determines Protests Did Not Cause Spike In Coronavirus Cases
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/07/01/research-determines-protests-did-not-cause-spike-in-coronavirus-cases/#6a06d3d67dac

There is no evidence yet that the wave of Black Lives Matter protests across the U.S. sparked COVID-19 outbreaks in the more than three weeks since they began, according to a study published Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research.
Rather, as the protests went on, people who were not participating increasingly stayed at home, possibly counteracting any effects the large gatherings may have had on the spread of the virus, the researchers concluded.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/black-lives-matter-protests-haven-t-led-covid-19-spikes-n1232045

Why didn't Black Lives Matter protests spread COVID-19? Because everyone else stayed home, study suggests
The net effect was that, on average, more people stayed home during the week they were held than the previous week, even accounting for all the protesters
Black Lives Matter protests may have slowed overall spread of coronavirus in Denver and other cities, new study finds
While the protests brought thousands of people together, they likely caused many more to stay home, a research team including a University of Colorado Denver professor concluded
https://coloradosun.com/2020/06/30/police-protests-coronavirus-spread/

“But it never came to pass. Hundreds of cities saw protests in North America earlier in the month, but it’s hard to trace even a single outbreak to the rallies. Vera Etches, Ottawa’s medical officer of health, confirmed this week that not even a single new infection could be attributed to the recent demonstration in the city.”
https://nationalpost.com/news/why-didnt-black-lives-matter-protests-spread-covid-19-because-everyone-else-stayed-home-study-suggests

Don't get me wrong ANY mass gatherings during the covid pandemic are inadvisable.
The biggest problem and contributing factor to the virus spread are a small group of selfish conspiracy theory idiots like "clay2" on another forum who believe that corona is a conspiracy by some elites to destroy the economy and control everyone and think that their personal freedoms to do as they wish are more important than the health and welfare of their fellow citizens

Guest Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:13 pm

planetcare Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:28 pm

davsgold wrote:I don't know, call it whatever you like, but they certainly don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

So are you sticking to your assertion that the chief officer won't let the truth get in the way of a good story?
The recommendation to now wear masks is based on the latest cumulative medical evidence from overseas studies particularly in the USA.
Can face masks help slow the spread of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes COVID-19?
Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.
So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.
These discoveries led public health groups to do an about-face on face masks. The World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) now include face masks in their recommendations for slowing the spread of the virus. The CDC recommends cloth face masks for the public and not the surgical and N95 masks needed by health care providers.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

PeterInSa Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:43 pm

The Virus, To me very weak follow up of Vic residents in isolation ( with the Virus?), They are phoned to see if they are home.... their mobile phone... Ha Ha sometimes a number of times. Yes I am home when out shopping.

In June we visited Tarnagulla in the bush for 2 weeks, only spoke to 2 people in the bush 5m apart and 2 VIC fuel stops ( Sanitizer etc), on return to SA had visits from Police on on day 2 and also on day 12. Diito our Friends.

Early July out from Tibooburra for 8 days, on return Police have already visited our SA friends, expect a visit from them also and a later visit as well. Duration our 14 day isolation with 2 hospital tests.

To me the Vic's could do more, I hear on TV that they are going to get the ADF to do house follows if phone calls are not answered.

Peter

Guest Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:25 pm

planetcare Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:32 pm

davsgold wrote:
planetcare wrote:
So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.

Seriously, give us a break, even way back in 1918 to 1920 with the spanish flu pandemic and more recent with SARS and MERS which are all variations of a corona virus yes that right. And you say that the nowday experts didn't know how easily people could now spread this corona virus.

Believe whatever you want, but I believe what previous history also shows, you just have to read it, around 50 million people died and around 500 million got infected from a corona virus H1N1 (Spanish Flu) between 1918 and 1920

And the experts now didn't know that a corona virus could spread so easily from person to person

https://golddetecting.forumotion.net/t27083-masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-the-science-is-simple-and-im-one-of-100-experts-urging-governors-to-require-public-mask-wearing

adrian ss Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:47 pm

planetcare wrote:
davsgold wrote:I don't know, call it whatever you like, but they certainly don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
So are you sticking to your assertion that the chief officer won't let the truth get in the way of a good story?
The recommendation to now wear masks is based on the latest cumulative medical evidence from overseas studies particularly in the USA.
Can face masks help slow the spread of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes COVID-19?
Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.
So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.
These discoveries led public health groups to do an about-face on face masks. The World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) now include face masks in their recommendations for slowing the spread of the virus. The CDC recommends cloth face masks for the public and not the surgical and N95 masks needed by health care providers.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

It does not take a university degree or masters in anything to be able to say that wearing a mask will reduce the amount of virus, germs, dust etc that get through to your mouth or nose. No long trials are necessary, no monitoring of thousands of people no need to be a medical expert etc. All that is required is logical thinking and common sense.

I do doubt the effectiveness of making your own mask from a bit of cloth from Spotlight etc. Sure it will be better than nothing but not by much and people will be deluding themselves if they have the virus and think that by wearing a home made cloth mask it will prevent them from breathing the virus into the open air.
The virus is very small. 400,000,000 of them could fit onto the head of a pin, so holes between the weave of ordinary cloth will be like open barn doors to a virus.

If the BLM protests or any mass gathering protests etc go ahead in Sydney then we might as well scrap the lock down regulations and start getting this country back on its feet.

planetcare Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:02 pm

davsgold wrote:
It does not take a university degree or masters in anything to be able to say that wearing a mask will reduce the amount of virus, germs, dust etc that get through to your mouth or nose. No long trials are necessary, no monitoring of thousands of people no need to be a medical expert etc. All that is required is logical thinking and common sense.

Every virus is different even those in the same family. The infectivity and the mechanism of it depends on its structure and size and the nature of its surface spike proteins.
Scrapping the regulations to get the country back on its feet would be catastrophic at the moment as it would lead to the infection rate becoming exponential with thousands of deaths and the hospital system overwhelmed.
And i repeat ALL mass gatherings should not go ahead!!!

PeterInSa Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:08 pm

Re (So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic?)

I think one of the reason was that Masks were scarcer'er than Toilet paper In Adelaide and for Gov. to say wear masks could have caused fights in stores re availability.

Guest Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:09 pm

adrian ss Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:13 pm

Agreed.
If I want to stop an army of tanks from destroying me I do not have to know how the tank operates or what defence mechanisms it may have to be able to build a trap that will stop it. The trap may not kill the tank but it will stop it from doing more damage

adrian ss Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:16 pm

davsgold wrote:hey planetcare, that is not my words you quote there, it is Adrian that said that

Yeah I am the nong here so don't drag Dave into ut. Very Happy

planetcare Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:48 pm

davsgold wrote:hey planetcare, that is not my words you quote there, it is Adrian that said that

My apologies! Smile

Nightjar Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:46 pm

Does anyone personally know who "Planetcare" may be?
He comes in here quoting like a "know it all" making him look like a learned expert. Nothing but stirring the pot on a very serious health problem.
We can all read, view and review media reports without someone following up with old news.

Keep safe everyone, as sure as little green apples this virus will pass, but will our country ever get back to what it was?

planetcare Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:53 pm

Nightjar wrote:
.Keep safe everyone, as sure as little green apples this virus will pass, but will our country ever get back to what it was?

In the longer term what you say may be true but the pandemic is getting worse globally with the new infection rate nearly doubling every 3 days and the death toll rising again. If you extrapolate the present global trend over the next 6 months then we could have as many as 100 million infected and many millions dead. Without a vaccine then no country will ever get back to what it was. The pre covid era has gone forever and we will all have to adjust to this new reality.

Guest Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:32 am

History Repeating itself But have we really learnt anything????
Writer up in today's Age.
wombat Wink

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/masks-lockdowns-fines-and-a-devastating-second-wave-a-century-on-history-repeats-20200723-p55er1.html

adrian ss Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:22 am

PeterInSa wrote:Re (So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic?)

I think one of the reason was that Masks were scarcer'er than Toilet paper In Adelaide and for Gov. to say wear masks could have caused fights in stores re availability.

I heard that Australia had bazillions of masks and flogged them off to China who then flogged them off around the world. Just a rumour and could be total BS.
We have had no probs buying masks at particular shops in Woden. Got so many now I think we should set up shop. Laughing

Although not much corona in Canberra at the moment.

Nightjar Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:59 am

adrian ss wrote:

I heard that Australia had bazillions of masks and flogged them off to China who then flogged them off around the world. Just a rumour and could be total BS.
We have had no probs buying masks at particular shops in Woden. Got so many now I think we should set up shop.

Watch out Adrian you'll open the sheep yards and start another "panic buying" episode. Laughing

goldnomad Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:08 am

surgeons, theatre nurses and operating theatre staff have been wearing face masks for over a century?
Do you think they might know something???

Kon61gold Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:30 pm

Fellas, as long as members on here abide by the requirements governing this forum, every member on here has the right to state their side of things as COVID-19 unfolds, but lets try to keep it on a civil level between us & not point the finger at who's more in the right or wrong.
This COVID-19 virus is real, is growing & killing more people with each passing day. So lets push all conspiracy theory behind us & pay attention to what confronts us.
Doctors/governing authorities are not God, but they do give us their professional point of view on how they see things unfolding (now how each & everyone of us, wishes to interpret that point of view, is another issue altogether).
Entire economies are not immediately shut down because of a hand full few, who happen to catch such a dangerous & highly infectious virus, but through consultation/collaboration over time, as to what best decision/s to undertake for the whole.
As for the mandatory wearing of appropriate face cover protection, does to much of a degree, dramatically stop people from spreading such a virus when in close range/contact to another.
The latest news here in Victoria is grim, 10 deaths (including a man in his 40's) & 459 new cases reported over the last 24 hr period. The saddest part of all this, is that its hit over 39 nursing homes in & around Melbourne, which house the vulnerable/elderly & dread to think how many more will succumb to COVID-19.
No matter where we go or what we do, please play it safe by doing the right thing for & by one another, so that we all keep this virus from spreading further to a minimum, in the hope that a cure is found more sooner than latter.
Stay safe everyone.

Kon. T25

Reg Wilson Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:00 pm

Nightjar, don't get your knickers in a knot just because someone is more in tune with reality than yourself. (it is possible you know.)

Kon61gold Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:42 pm

Fellas, could we please all take a back seat to what's currently unfolding via this horrendous COVID-19 crises & spare a thought for the ones in a much less fortunate position than ourselves. This is not a time for conflict & bickering amongst ourselves.
In a time of world crisis we should all be working as one, for the enemy we currently face, is a silent, invisible, killer.
Take care out there everyone.

Kon T25

Reg Wilson Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:11 pm

Yes kon, we are in a very dire situation, the likes of which we have not seen for a long time. Now is not the time for fruit cake theories, fat egos, or 'figjam' attitudes.

adrian ss Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:39 pm

Scrapped the text that was here coz I couldn't make any sense of it.. Rolling Eyes

...N I wrote it. Q24

Guest Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:23 pm

llanbric Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:36 pm

Nightjar wrote:Does anyone personally know who "Planetcare" may be?
He comes in here quoting like a "know it all" making him look like a learned expert. Nothing but stirring the pot on a very serious health problem.
We can all read, view and review media reports without someone following up with old news.

Keep safe everyone, as sure as little green apples this virus will pass, but will our country ever get back to what it was?

QED

adrian ss Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:19 pm

Yeah It's all a load of ummm, Ummmm,ummmmm, silly stuff... although I would not recommend anybody follow in my footsteps on this view......Well not in bare feet on my bathroom tiles after I av ad a shower at anyrate. Lotta virus there I reckon. pale

Guest Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:01 pm

corona virus crisis and detecting