19" GPZ 7000 Coil info.

Alchemist, can't help remembering being told by the best detector operator that I ever met; "All the wishful thinking in the world, will not turn a ground noise into a nugget"   (JHS)

alchemist wrote:GGA I have bought this coil but will not get an opportunity to test it out for a couple of weeks, Reg's comments robbed me of sleep last night what am I to do?

You can be assured of one thing Alchemist, and that is that the 19" coil is positively more powerful than the 14". While swinging it the other day I noticed that I could not swing the 19" coil as far to the left where I keep my pick/pick holder like I could with the 14" coil without it picking the pick up. This is a fact. The pick holder will have to be positioned further round the back than where it is now on the left hip.I have never seen or used a smaller coil that could penetrate deeper than a larger coil.  Maybe one of the forum's experts might know of such a powerful small coil). How this extra power is utilized by the 19" coil to penetrate the ground......that's another thing.................and we're about to find out.

Ex Marathon runner as we'll ( i remember  reading it on the GS1500 sales brochure )

Reg Wilson wrote:Alchemist, can't help remembering being told by the best detector operator that I ever met; "All the wishful thinking in the world, will not turn a ground noise into a nugget"   (JHS)

Visiting many old GPX patches with the brand new Zed didn't provide many extra finds except in peculiar circumstances a dab or run of spotty ones came to light.

I suspect the 19" may be similar in that it requires these "peculiar" circumstances to obtain the advertised results.

The next few days will be interesting to say the least.

Good to know Slim yours is pumping out extra power.

Call me simplistic.......but my take is the 19 wont pick up gold that isn't there.

Its probably going to be a great tool where there is gold that is just out of reach of the 14.

I won't be selling mine anytime soon get, but fingers crossed those that have been disapointed so far will find it more useful as they use it more.......

Good luck out there !!

Harb wrote:Call me simplistic.......but my take is the 19 wont pick up gold that isn't there.

Good point. if only.

cheers dave

To be fair Dave, there are limits to physics...and will likely always be gold beyond a coils scope...

Just depends on how deep your pockets are as to how deep you go...

No different today than the 'ol times eh?

Gypsy

Hi Gypsy.

You have a PM

ozgold 041

ozgold 041 wrote:Hi Gypsy.

You have a PM

ozgold 041

So do you...
.
.
.and thanks for that.

alkimists - hang in there mate, during your couple of weeks wait, you will be able to sort the "good from the bad" of info on this and other forums re the new 19 inch coil.

i bet it will do you more good than harm (the wait).

i tell it as it is, and as my apponion is just that, my personal understanding of my experiences. and as i am just a learner in the game with only 16 years experience, treat my info with a grain of salt.

haveing attempted to silence any critism of my comments, i had another day in the paddock yesterday, and would like to pass on my experiences (to further my and others HOBBY)

i went to a spot where i have "jagged" a 72gram, 55g, 42g, 19g 12g, several at 6g and many smalls down to .o5gram with the z over the last eighteen months. this is a big area with old detector holes, rehabilitated flats, untouched slopes and flats, and plenty of spots you would not bother to run a detector over.
in amongst my travels (and thats what i do, travel, rather than concentrate on oldtimers throwout piles), i have "jagged" most of the larger nugs (sorry reg - specs), while wandering aimlessly, it would seem, but reality is, i have been studying the lay of the land, and concentrating on the small areas in that large paddock where i think, the old timers have not dug, the machines went around (because of trees or logs) and knowing the obvious shallow soil has been visited by metal detectors before.

getting the picture? nuggets are where you walk over them!!!!!!

so yesterday with the 19 inch on the best machine yet put on the market, i wandered around with the same speed, knowing the bigger coil, goes deeper, but more importantly is quieter (for a larger coil), and ACTUALLY DETECTS OUT TO THE SIDE. test it fellas, you can miss a target by several inches and still lodge on to it. this means you can travel faster over ground and be confident to not be gridding too wide.

first nug to pull me up, was a piece of cake (all the deep signals up to then were rubbish) a 1.43gram slug that came out with the first dig. (gave me a double signal and i nearly walked away from it) but it was up against the edge of a large fallen log, and the rehabiliter dozer/grader had not moved it. i naturally then slowed down and did the immediate area more carefully, and turned up about a half dozen tacks and other assorted small rubbish. i was not disappointed that i had missed them in the first passing, as i was there for bigger stuff, and not the fly.....

20 meters away i got another easy signal, only 4 to 5 inches in the ground, that turned out to be a 6.67gram solid beauty. you guessed it, up against a big tree, free from previous disturbances.

so 8 and a bit grams for the eight hour day, had a pleasant feeling about it, and my new coil is all but paid for (with the 9 grams from previous couple of days).
most all these nugs would have been found with previous gpx machines, but i would claim - NOT AS EASILY -. and the 12gram dug mentioned above is probably the main exception, as it was 18inches down and found with 14inch z, but of course i cant say for sure. (i have found a 8.4gram nug down 18inches with the 14inch z, i am pretty sure that was a z only nug)

so far my experience of about 14 hours with the 19 inch, has been enough to convience me, yes it is heavy and some people will not be able to handle it. thats about par for the course. i had had enough after eight hours yesterday, but then i am 71 and only a pipsqueak at 5ft 4, and 60 kilos.
i could have continued until sundown, but it was beer-a-clock and i was a happy chappy.

do your testing, you will find it is definately more powerful (i am not into arguing about the 30% bizzo), your pick will tell you, and your rubbish bag will get in the road with interference, if you have been cleaning up the enviroment. i didnt bother carrying the large horseshoe i unearthed.

so - the other kev - hang in there mate, you will be impressed, that minelab has produced another toy for us hobbyists, that some professionals will not be happy with (it always works that way) ... kev

PS long winded, but its saturday, i hope it was a good read for the optimist ones amongst us

Thankyou Kev

For your honest opinion, it was an interesting read.. 

I am sure more good or bad reports will come in.

Thanks Kev for the time and effort you made, and well done on those virgin bits of ground and gold.

I've used the side looking ability of the 14" quite a lot around large boulders, and stepped crevice walls and been nicely rewarded, it's really good to know the 19" expands upon this, another tick for starship.

What I'd like to know is if you've had any ground where you had to run Difficult previously, but can now run Normal by reducing gain way down and/or switching to Extra?

I suspect the 30% being an average, it was not for instance a discrete comparison of Ground Types, but covered overall Gold and Ground modes.

So for instance, the example above where the reduction in ground coupling of the bigger coil allows a less subtractive Ground Type to be used, giving likely greater than 30% if of course we are experienced enough to interpret the target response from soil.

Big DD swingers from the past will have an advantage here.

Cheers
Kev.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqobDxqwT3Q

I can,t read Russian, though i am 99.9 % certain this picture has been stolen, looks Like a photo JP took?

[quote="alchemist"]Thanks Kev for the time and effort you made, and well done on those virgin bits of ground and gold.

I've used the side looking ability of the 14" quite a lot around large boulders, and stepped crevice walls and been nicely rewarded, it's really good to know the 19" expands upon this, another tick for starship.

What I'd like to know is if you've had any ground where you had to run Difficult previously,  but can now run Normal by reducing gain way down and/or switching to Extra?

I suspect the 30% being an average, it was not for instance a discrete comparison of Ground Types, but covered overall Gold and Ground modes.

So for instance, the example above where the reduction in ground coupling of the bigger coil allows a less subtractive Ground Type to be used, giving likely greater than 30% if of course we are experienced enough to interpret the target response from soil.

Big DD swingers from the past will have an advantage here......................................................................................



alchemist kev .... yes mate, if you go to my previously sent messages, you will find i have changed how i used the  7000 with the 14inch coil during the last month or so.  i used to run in high yield and difficult with smoothing on low.  this was to keep the ground noises to a minimum and to keep my sanity intact, clermont may not be as bad as vic country, but rarely can you use normal with the gpx machines or the z. you will all know how "difficult" dumbes down the machine, but you all know how much more depth you get if you can use normal.
 with the coming 19 inch coil, i decided to stop pussyfooting around in my comfort zone, and challenged myself to run in "normal", found it very noisy and too many confusing groundnoises, but a simple sentance from a chap on this forum - slow down and swing your coil over the noise several more times, you will find the ground noises will get lower or disappear - IT WORKED.  this week with the 19 inch coil on, i have only dug one ground noise (or i hit the target and sent it flying well away???)
originally last month in highyield and normal, the problems were unbearable, general was much the same, so i quickly tried out extra deep, normal, with smoothing on low.  this was bearable and i have detected for the month in that setting and found  73grams  (42, 19,  3.4, couple of 2 and some subgrammers).
during this week with the 19 on, i have retained those settings, and in the 14 hours on the ground have found the 17grams as previously mentioned.

high yield and general are extremely powerful and noisy, so i will continue to keep the machine in extra deep, normal, both volumes at 12, sensitivity at 19 (that right 19) my audio suits my hearing best at 74. with testing on gram plus nugs, i cannot see any great lowering of depth while in extra deep, but if i change the sensitivily to the generally accepted 9 area, there is a very obvious lowering of depth, in all highyield, general and deep modes. the sens of 19 does make the machine noisier in all modes, but is best in deep. my testing tells me - deep with 19 is better than h/y and 9, or general and 9. i may be wrong here, but i will stick to deep, as i am now chasing the deeper nugs.

 a point of major contention that will not be liked by most is the fact i prefer to keep the threshold at 1 and use "bogene" settings.  i have run all the above with threshold at 23, they are similar in capability, but the continueous threshold noise is not to my personal likeing, and i find it tiring.  with threshold at 1 i am running with minimal sweep and ground noises and targets stand out "like the proverbial dogs b..s". the gpx machines didnt allow you to run the threshold too low, as you missed the tiddlers, but this z certainly does not miss them.

i have just previously read all the controversy re this new 19 coil, very disappointing to see, i can only hope the outlook improves as we get to know our machines better with the new coil.  for me, i am going out again tomorrow with the same settings, hope i can report more finds, as a lack of confidence is a real killer in this game.
i am not interested in getting into any dogfighs re how i run the machine, or killing the hopes for this new coil.  i will leave that to others and observe the outcome.  my answer is - i have found 17grams during 14 hours detecting -  that will do me ... kev        

Kev wrote:

IT WORKED. this week with the 19 inch coil on, i have only dug one ground noise (or i hit the target and sent it flying well away???)...

Lets hope when ya go back out tomorrow you find a nice 2-3gm sunbaker nearby..lol

Good reading and good luck..

Gypsy

I explained in an earlier post how to eliminate ground noises by sweeping over ground noises many more times than with the GPX, the Z having better target definition, but slower. You may recall I also suggested that if you were still unsure to move 90 degrees and repeat the process. I'm sure most of us know to run threshold way down, and sensitivity way up, but one major difference between the way I run and most others do, is that I run pitch way down. 2-5.

Thanks Kev for the additional info, the pressures off you a little as you're on your way to recouping your investment if indeed much of what you found was undetectable by the 14".

Results from others so far are indeed disheartening, but I still hope that it's simply a mistake somewhere in the code introduced while transferring from the candidate to release versions.

JP's rough gold that he says was detected with a prototype 19" would have occurred well over 22 months ago, because many of these same nuggets were featured in advertising used during the launch of the Zed. That was before the ground tracking algorithms were updated in the software patch.

Why do we not see the results from field tester/s (?) since that time from Minelab, only contrived data?
Could it be that Zeds present code differs markedly from that used by the tester/s (?) during development?

If anyone was going to come up with the goods this past week surely Reg would have. There is something plainly not right with the 19"

Reg I think Kev was probably refering to your previous post on how to scrutinize iffy signals. It's incredible to see Zed slowly exclude some hot rocks with this method, but also reveals how slowly the data is actually processed. I assume that's why its definition is so acute and so is not necessarily a negative trait.

Alchemist, I bought a Z immediately upon their release, for the simple reason that Bruce Candy was the developer.
Once I realized that the default settings were crap, and I had set it up to suit myself, it began to find gold. I soon realized that depth claims were highly exaggerated, however its signal definition, stability, ability to find small gold, specimens, and larger pieces were unprecedented. It was a most forgiving machine, and except for the weight, was a delight to use.
Upon receipt of the larger coil, I firstly ran it in the settings that had proved so effective previously (over 60 ozs on my own, and more in partnerships). I then experimented with other settings, finding that the coil  ran very smoothly in most (but not all) conditions.
Besides the unbelievable weight, its very marginal depth increase is my main beef, although the limitations of its ridiculous 'filleted' design and dirt trapping skid plate must be taken into account as well.
If a camel was a horse designed by a committee, then Minelab must have engaged the same committee in the design of this coil.
Had this coil been half the weight, at half the price, I may well have made no complaint, but as it is, it is a 'rip off'.
I had to laugh at claims that it would enable the operator to cover more ground,(but you have to slow down). One point defeats the other, and besides, who other than Popeye could swing it fast anyway?

G'day kevlorraine2

Thanks for posting about your experience and time using the new coil and the results, also your settings and the way you have been using them for the last month or so.

cheers dave

Reg I'm sorry I initially doubted you, I sanguinely trusted the blurb as credible and within field experience of the previous 40% claim which did in my situation eventuate in perculiar circumstances, but considering your recent experience will not be repeated with the 30% claim.

It appears you will be completely vindicated, thank you for your honesty.

alchemist wrote:Reg I'm sorry I initially doubted you, I sanguinely trusted the blurb as credible and within field experience of the previous 40% claim which did in my situation eventuate in perculiar circumstances, but considering your recent experience will not be repeated with the 30% claim.

It appears you will be completely vindicated, thank you for your honesty.

Still no need for concern alchemist....the 30% is an 'average', not a determined measurable 'constant', as per the "blurb". Find more of those perculiar circumstances, and your "average" may very well be even higher...

The other issue so far untouched is..."How much of that, focused on 30% increase, is nominal larger coil increase and what is down to increased performance?....

Gypsy

Gypsy, full points for tenacity, but I'm starting to doubt you have 'both oars in the water'. 'Bite the bullet', and realize that with each post you now flush what remains of your credibility further and further down the toilet.
In the old days you would be accompanying a certain 'golden boy' from up north; strapped backward on a donkey, covered in tar and feathers, and headed out of town.

Reg Wilson wrote:Gypsy, full points for tenacity, but I'm starting to doubt you have 'both oars in the water'. 'Bite the bullet', and realize that with each post you now flush what remains of your credibility further and further down the toilet.
In the old days you would be accompanying a certain 'golden boy' from up north; strapped backward on a donkey, covered in tar and feathers, and headed out of town.

ANd why would that be Reg? Just because you said so??

BWAHAHAHAHAHA aHAHAHAHA

GypsyGoldAu. Mate, I don't know who you think you are, elevating yourself to ML stooge, but so far you have contributed nothing of substance to help solve the mystery of the lack of performance in the 19" coil. There are plenty of people who might like to positively contribute to this thread but can't be bothered knowing a saboteur like you will stick his nose in and try to shoot their opinions down. I'd rather you just stopped with your ML excuses on my thread, your repeating yourself as if you have dementia. (Tragic and laughable) It's time you started your own thread I think, on why you think Minelab hasn't screwed us over.

reg wilson - thanks again mate for reminding me how to dismiss unwanted ground noises (i couldnt remember who it was recently mentioned it).
i now recall we were told all this when the z first came out, and another method that was employed was the pumping of the coil right beside the target.

i actually dug a couple of very promising ground noises today, couldnt resist it, as the buggers had insisted with their persistant signal.

alchemist mate i never found any 2gram sunbakers either - bugger.

and no, i didnt find any colour today. my wanderings took me to a spot very filthy with falled timber, nearly done my ankle in several times, log hopping.
the purpose was to see if this previously rich area had any large nuggets hiding under the logs, i thought i will wack this big coil into deep, max everything else out and run over the top of them. because i was mostely high off the ground the problem noises were at a minimum, but no prize for me today.
the weight was telling, with the need to adjust the height with every log being different. if i keep this up pop eye will have competition with his girlfriend ... kev

Hi Fellow 7000 Swingers,

Here are my findings with the new 19' 7000 coil.
About two hours after picking up my new coil a promising target was located, top right a 1.72 gram piece at 350 mm from very flogged real estate, lower left, a 17.1 gram slug located by my prospecting mate at about 450 mm, again from very flogged country, lower right, day two, a 0.277 gram at about 120 mm from a well gridded patch by myself on previous trips.
The coil is quite heavy and has taken several days to rearrange the harness set-up to handle the extra load and swing inertia, with these mods in place the weight factor was pretty much solved apart from having to lift the coil over rocks and logs that one encounters while detecting wooded areas.
Thus far it's hard to make any valid depth comparisons between the 14" coil and the new 19" coil with the limited time spent with it to date, it appears to run quieter, particular over hot ground, EMI seems to be well tolerated. Generally speaking the coil appears to be fairly well mannered, that said though it's early days in terms of experience with it from my stand point, dealing with long grass due to the exceptional spring rains was certainly a problem but any coil would have similar issues.
Very hot weather and thousands of flies along with the dense grass cover certainly took the shine off being able to put the new coil through more testing in areas that have given up significant gold, one will have to wait for some cooler weather conditions and the grass to hay-off to get the coil closer to the ground and minimise the energy required to swing the new beast.

After a big day with the new coil.
Cheers, AUoptimist.

Thanks for your report Paul, some nice pieces of gold, well done to the both of you.

cheers dave

Morning Dave,
The new 19" coil is certainly a big heavy beast, with a few more day's playing around with it, it should be OK to swing for reasonably long periods. I/we found the standard 7000 harness with the bungee cord attached to the centre of the chest cross strap, there was a marked tendency for the coil to pull to the left and required additional effort to swing the coil to the right hand side, this became quite laborious fairly quickly, the long grass also made the problem worse.
Thus far; a hip stick has helped with the left hand bias issue and the coil centres up fairly well, however after a few hours both shoulder and hip start to exhibit signs of the extra weight/load; some additional padding on the pressure points could solve these problems. Sitting around the camp fire of an evening, the three of us compared notes so to speak, on the new coil, it was a unanimous call that it would take a fair bit more time to work through the different issues that the coil has created. One's level of fitness will certainly play a significant roll here, not just in swinging the coil but digging seriously deep holes, several junk targets were retrieved from the bottom of holes down to about a metre, a few holes at these depths in a detecting session will certainly test your fitness.
Pinpointing is a whole new ball game and in our experience takes a bit of practice to work out exact target location both in the ground and when the target is out, we found the GPX4500/5000 with the Nugget Finder 8"x6" Sadie was an efficient tool for pinpointing targets in the bottoms/sides of deep holes, while carrying two detectors may not be possible well away from your vehicle, if on the other hand it's relatively close the combination can save a load of extra digging and time.
In terms of settings on the ground we were working, general/difficult, gain at 12/14, threshold 23/27, worked fine, normal ground was pretty much hopeless, the ground is way to hot.
The above were the observations that the three of us encountered over five days detecting with the new coil, every person and location will require a different approach to their detecting situation that said it would be a fair bet that most folk will take some time to adjust to the new coil; Who knows, MineLab may come out with a new highly efficient harness set-up that will go a long way to solving the weight, swing issues.
Cheers, AUoptimist

G'day Paul

Thanks again for the updated info of 5 days in the field with the new coil and between the 3 of you blokes it paints a fairly clear picture of what I can expect when I pick mine up.

In the mean time I need to get out the weights and do some serious training by the sound of things.

It is good to see there were targets up 1 metre deep, just damn disappointing they were rubbish.

cheers dave

Thanks for the comments Dave; 15 days experience between the three of us with the new coil, all of us having 7000's from day one gave us a good foundation to work up an opinion on the new addition, due to local conditions, namely longgggg!!!!!!! grass, we were severely hamstrung in terms of ground to work and form a better idea on the "all round" performance of the new coil,looks like we will have to wait till next season to further an opinion on the coil.
Cheers, AUoptimist.