Detecting in WA

Nero grabbing someone by the throat is very very serious offence, if somone where to defend them selves under such an attack and the attacker died regardless of where it happened the victim would be well within there rights to claim self defence,

ffs no one should be going around attacking people for any reasons, least of all because they are to lazy to find gold themselves.

Gday


Its the same in every recreational activity you will always get the idiots who will stuff it up for everybody else, detecting is no different, but if things dont change and people are not made to change their attitudes to other peoples rights then its just going to get worse.

One point I would like to raise is that almost all owners of leases that I have had dealings with are simply trying to prove up their leases in the hope that a mining company will buy it from them, they are a paper asset and the only thing that is done is drilling and sampling, as someone else mentioned they are not working them and do not intend to work them, I think that the mining laws in regards to this needs to be changed as these speculators are tying up huge areas of land, I have heard also others say but there is still plenty of available land, maybe so but I am not afraid to say that probably about 95% of the worthwhile ground is leased already, the only ground that isnt is ground that is considered too poor to be worried about.

The other thing is that for the most part they are not interested in the alluvial gold as we are so why cant the laws relating to some leases exclude rights to alluvial areas unless the operator is actually working it?, if the lease is being proved up and speculated apon then it should fall into a different catagory again, I can understand a lease holder being dark on people entering a lease that is being worked but tying up tracts of land just in speculation is unfair as we all have the right to access it, I would bet that there are a lot less lease holders than prospectors, so once again the minority hold sway over the majority.

Most detectorist are only interested in getting a few nuggets, and not interested in digging craters, and do not even carry any mechanical equipment, so for the most part their impact on the gold in these locations is minimal and in my opinion hardly worth the trouble to police and lose sleep over, having people sneak about and detect your lease comes with the territory, and for most lease holders not something they are that concerned about, If you were losing many thousands of dollars in gold from your lease, firstly how would you know about it and secondly if it were that rich why wouldnt you be working it?.

An agreement between the leaseholder and the prospector would be beneficial to both parties, where as the detectorist has the right to detect for alluvial gold down to say a depth of 1 meter, any reef or source that is found has to be reported to the lease holder, and the detectorist be rewarded with a percentage of the gold that is extracted from it, most people would be only too happy to comply with something like this if it means that they can be in the area hassle free, sure it would be open to abuse just like anything, but for the most part the detectorist gets some nuggets and the leaseholder who is not doing the leg work gets the location of a possible rich source, these agreements can work as I have ones in place with leaseholders myself and will honour my end of the bargain for the freedom to go where I choose.

Its worth remembering that a high percentage of the big gold producing mines were found by prospectors and detectorist not geologists and drillers, the best way to get to know an area is to spend time on the ground with a detector.

cheers

stayyerAU

Stayyer totally agree with your last comments. Too many people tie up all this land and run around checking it without actually working it. If they say we are stealing $100,000s of dollars in Gold why don't they get out there and work it themselves. No they do not as they are after the $$$ form the mining companies, the $$ that will never come and they will hold onto these leases and drive around checking on them as if they are the BIG landowners, they are only renting the land and doing nothing with it.

These rights will change in the future when they are found to be doing nothing with the land and why get upset over a detector walking over this huge country and finding a few nuggets.

As Keating keeps saying - Get a real job. Stop spying or apply to ASIO for a spys job. Acan

Well said stayyerau,try my state and you find about 20% of the el's area held by ex senior polly who has now signed agreements with pastoral leaseholders to stop access.I believe only a minimal amount of work is carried out to maintain leases and is being hawked to the chinese for $1 bn,so much for all australians ,let alone detectorists.Try fighting this one through your local polly.

AND then we get comments like this......
gollstar wrote:
If they dont bring out a new detector soon ill spend my cash on a 4wd and a trip to THE BIG WA and i will steal there gold like no other before, im thinking that just by a 4wd and find the best gold ground and hammer it and not even look at tenograph,

From here....

https://golddetecting.forumotion.net/general-discussion-f1/how-effective-t2171.htm#16912

You idiot!!!

So what ? big deal if i put the wind up some people, besides im a long way off going to WA and if the new machine comes out i would maybe buy it and just use it here in vic none of the bulldust, and theres hardly a soul around victoria i can go anywhere and not see another detectorist for days, compare that to the wild west where people are making threats and getting all upset, not to mention the price of fuel to get to WA and paper work, tenograph etc greedy irate lease holders, christ there would have to alot of gold lying about for it to be worth it, from where i live it cost me 30 bucks to dunolly, any way my heads still a bit funny from the cheap goon i drank last night, the laptop screen seems very bright, hard to look at.

came back and bit ya!!

Hey Fadix, you are dead right about SOME detectorists, who just ignore the law, & you are also
entitled to be annoyed. But i would respectfully request that you be more tactful when commenting on this forum. There will always be a few cowboys, who don't give a stuff (i have met some) but from 25 yrs of experience, i have found most detectorists do the right thing.
As Madtuna said, perhaps you should check out your neighbours first.
And just one question - Whats with " coming to OUR goldfields" ??
They are NOT YOUR goldfields, so lets all chill out, O.K. !

I thought the resources belonged to the states.Thats why WA and Qld are
so upset about the great big new resource tax Canberra wants.

ohh here we go again !! lets get a jack hammer and chisel WA from the rest of the NATION!

Murachu wrote:ohh here we go again !! lets get a jack hammer and chisel WA from the rest of the NATION!

Wait till I change my number plates over before you do, I don't wont to be associated with the naughty easterners.

Might have to come up with a new camo, was thinking of rolling in glue, than taking a run through the bush and doing a few army rolls to get that WA camo look.

Have ordered a set of night vision goggles to compliment the new camo, that orta do it.

Some good friends of mine,around seven couples from central coast nsw,retired of course, are at this moment enjoying there annual pilgrimage to WA, one particular couple have been there regularly for 25 years, theyve all done their homework, tips and tricks are shared, everything they do is legal,they are gps literate and often when there asked to leave an area they know there within areas that are legally accessable to them and its usually some yobo wth no legal claim on the area thats trying to frighten them off. The one thing that they all say after their trip is that every year they have to cover more and more ground to find the gold, but its the quest and the many friendships they develop that keep them going back
There not there to plunder the state and get everyone in WA off side, there just there enjoying there hobby,friendships and generally having a good time.

stayyerAU wrote:Gday


Its the same in every recreational activity you will always get the idiots who will stuff it up for everybody else, detecting is no different, but if things dont change and people are not made to change their attitudes to other peoples rights then its just going to get worse.

One point I would like to raise is that almost all owners of leases that I have had dealings with are simply trying to prove up their leases in the hope that a mining company will buy it from them, they are a paper asset and the only thing that is done is drilling and sampling, as someone else mentioned they are not working them and do not intend to work them, I think that the mining laws in regards to this needs to be changed as these speculators are tying up huge areas of land, I have heard also others say but there is still plenty of available land, maybe so but I am not afraid to say that probably about 95% of the worthwhile ground is leased already, the only ground that isnt is ground that is considered too poor to be worried about.

The other thing is that for the most part they are not interested in the alluvial gold as we are so why cant the laws relating to some leases exclude rights to alluvial areas unless the operator is actually working it?, if the lease is being proved up and speculated apon then it should fall into a different catagory again, I can understand a lease holder being dark on people entering a lease that is being worked but tying up tracts of land just in speculation is unfair as we all have the right to access it, I would bet that there are a lot less lease holders than prospectors, so once again the minority hold sway over the majority.

Most detectorist are only interested in getting a few nuggets, and not interested in digging craters, and do not even carry any mechanical equipment, so for the most part their impact on the gold in these locations is minimal and in my opinion hardly worth the trouble to police and lose sleep over, having people sneak about and detect your lease comes with the territory, and for most lease holders not something they are that concerned about, If you were losing many thousands of dollars in gold from your lease, firstly how would you know about it and secondly if it were that rich why wouldnt you be working it?.

An agreement between the leaseholder and the prospector would be beneficial to both parties, where as the detectorist has the right to detect for alluvial gold down to say a depth of 1 meter, any reef or source that is found has to be reported to the lease holder, and the detectorist be rewarded with a percentage of the gold that is extracted from it, most people would be only too happy to comply with something like this if it means that they can be in the area hassle free, sure it would be open to abuse just like anything, but for the most part the detectorist gets some nuggets and the leaseholder who is not doing the leg work gets the location of a possible rich source, these agreements can work as I have ones in place with leaseholders myself and will honour my end of the bargain for the freedom to go where I choose.

Its worth remembering that a high percentage of the big gold producing mines were found by prospectors and detectorist not geologists and drillers, the best way to get to know an area is to spend time on the ground with a detector.

cheers

stayyerAU

You are right Stayyer. I have for long time believed that mining laws need to be changed and fast so that ONLY finely "disseminated hardrock ore" (as large mining companies are mainly after, in large volume tonnage which takes mechanical equipment) for open pit(blue sky) or deep underground operations CAN be staked-claimed on a lease-tenement. NO other form-type of gold(alluvial, elluvial, and shallow rich surface reef-vein) can be staked-claimed as it is open ground for all. For an example, alluvial nuggets cannot be claimed and are open for all to find on crown land without 'machine operated' mechanical equipment. Secrecy would be the key in this type of system, as the staking-claiming ground for alluvial nuggets is then not allowed.

Legally done small charge blasting, or 'hand operated' mechanical equipment like a jackhammer is allowed without a permit to take out cemented nuggets or a shallow rich surface reef-vein. But for 'machine operated' mechanical equipment on alluvial-elluvial gold if a person wants to use a grader, bulldozer, or dryblow-drywash with a loader-backhoe, a permit(which can be approved or denied) is then needed for that area for control and some land reclamation, but the ground cannot be staked for this alluvial-elluvial gold.

Like I said, yes people should be allowed and they CAN stake-claim land and hold a lease-tenement for finely disseminated hardrock gold, nickle, iron, etc. ore in hope of selling the leases-tenements to large mining companies for a profit 'or' large mining companies doing it for themselves can as well, is the ONLY type of staking that should be allowed.

Yes as it should be and as it is now, once a large mining company is in the act and has commenced work(blasting, creating very deep holes-pits, heavy equipment operating, conveyer belts, ore processing buildings, etc.) for disseminated ore then they can fence off and have 'no trespassing' on this area for public safety, security, etc.

Also obviously a large mining company is NOT expected to do land reclamation to its original condition leaving permanent massive open pits-holes that will never be filled in. Rightfully so as it they are impossible economically to fill in and large mining companies must be allowed to go on to create jobs and money for the economy. But detectorists are rightfully expected to refill in their small holes. 'All' the detectorists combined create MUCH less land damage than 'one' large mining company, so detectorists also must be allowed to go on as well.

On another note I will also add that we go to great lengths and expense for national security and the military to protect our country. But leave the back door open for a foreign government like mainly China(or Saudi Arabia) to come in and buy out assets. We sell-out our country for money-greed. We are subject to a partial and full financial take-over of large mining companies(and others) and also buying up of titled land by foreign governments-companies. It will NOT be a war and a military take-over of our country as was the danger in the past, but the new way is a financial take-over of assets. Think about it as this must stop, pressure the politicians-government to enact new laws to stop this happening anymore and also to deal with the assets that have already been bought up. Otherwise this will have a disasterous outcome for our children.

Beer Beeper - Totally agree.

It is about time that governments change these laws. If tghe big guys have the big equipment and yes stake their claim and have it all fenced off etc, we will easily know what is going on and Yes we will not enter.

It is these lose leases that cause the problems, mainly non sign posted, nil notification and nil use and they at times do not even know where they are bordered upon.

Whats a nugget or two among friends. Acan

Gday Beer Beeper


I agree with what you say also, and its always the little people in the end who suffer and miss out, the way things are going the big guys will freeze us out of most places and detecting for a hobby will be a thing of the past, but there is also the fact that there are people out there in the hobby that are giving the powers that be the very ammunition they need to pass laws against us, these are the people that flaunt the regulations, leave rubbish and holes, and generally dont give a stuff about anyone else.

How many of the large lease holders are actually working the alluvial areas of their leases?, it would not be many, so there is really no valid reason why these areas cant be used by detecorists, the laws need to changed to suit the majority not kept as they are to better benefit the minority.

Although some things dont make sense to me like "smoking of grass" and I dislike drugs,users and suppliers with a passion, I believe that possibly it would be more economical to just legalise it for personal use, this way it can be better controlled, less police resources used, less legal resources used, common sense tells me that they will never control it and or wipe it out so wouldnt it be better just to tolerate it, the same goes for what we do, why not just make the laws more tolerant and then that way they will save the costs of having to police it all and stop this situation between lease holders and detectorists dead in its tracks,and even if they tighten laws in regards to detecting and try to freeze people out it will not stop people from doing it, so why not just make it easier to regulate it, sometimes you just have to take a more common sense approach to a situation, it may not be the perfect solution but it is better than no solution. where you just have to keep throwing money and resources at it and hope that it will go away.

Most of us see it as our right as Australians to be able to have access to what is also ours!, it bothers me that our politicians and regulators allow foreign lease holders to dictate whether or not we can access parts of our own country, personally I think they are selling us out too cheap and we should never ever allow anybody other than our own people to have a say in who goes where, our greedy and foolish politicians only look at situations through the eyes of a man on borrowed time, meaning that they are almost always only interested in the cause and effect that their decision will have during their time in power, beyond that they are not interested, thats why we have so many useless and decrepid laws, and thats why I guess that many of the laws pertaining to the mining sector are the way they are.


cheers

stayyerAU

well said stayer . if you ever get to the vic you would be great to have a beer and detect with cheers buck

Hi StayyerAU
Excellent post,I have just returned from the goldfields and its not getting any better,all my old haunts now pegged,not much left for the beepers these days.
I might have to change my areas that Iv been prospecting in for years and head north.
Hope to catch up one day.

Cheers Jon.

Hi all,
Here is an example of a now Russian owned mine mothballed and a definite "no go" area for prospectors for many square kilometres of alluvial ground. Already has been mentioned, however this is what gets up our noses, not the few Easterners coming over here to prospect.


History

The Thunderbox gold deposit is a relatively recent discovery by Western Australian gold mining standards, having been located through drilling in mid-1999. The deposit was jointly owned by Lionore (60%) and Dalrymple Resources (40%).

The owners conducted a feasibility study in 2001 and predicted a mine life of five years and a gold resource of 850,000 ounces, to be mined in an open-pit operation. The company moved the processing plant from Mount Todd to the mine and first gold production was achieved at the end of 2002^.

In mid-2003, Lionore and Dalrymple announced a merger of the two companies, with the new entity continuing to be called Lionore^.

After good results in the mine's first two years of operation. Thunderbox suffered a difficult 2005, with lower-than-expected production in the second half of the year. Water shortages and equipment reliability issues were two of the main reasons for the decline in production, but write-downs because of its short remaining mine life led to large financial losses for the Thunderbox operation. Lionore at this stage was contemplating selling the mine.
In April 2007, it was once more reported that the mine was for sale.Lionore Mining was taken over by Russian company Norilsk in June 2007,after a biding war between Norilsk and Xstrata saw the former succeeding with the higher offer. Xstrata had originally offered C$18.50 for every Lionore share, countered by a Norilsk offer of C$21.50 per share. Xstrata raised their offer to C$25, which forced Norilsk to present a final offer of C$27.50.Shortly after the takeover, Norilsk announced that it would not continue mining at Thunderbox, instead preferring to concentrate on the company's nickel projects. The mine eventually closed in November 2007.

After the closure of the mine, Norilsk used the camp at Thunderbox for accommodation for its workers at the nearby Waterloo Nickel Mine, until the later was placed into care and maintenance, too.

No plans for a reopening of the mine have been announced.

You are a criminal when... you pose as someone you are not. Many lease holders fill out their lie sheets each year and keep their leases illegally. Many lease holders are greedy to the point of being insane.

This year I have heard of many people throwing recreational prospectors off leases when that person doing the throwing has no authority, legal or otherwise. It has happened to me. With the current high price of gold the crazies are getting thicker on the ground evey month.

I say this to folk I meet. Stand your Ground. No one can question you out in the bush - or in town without producing identification. Even a police officer must identify themselves before asking any questions. Ask for their identification, their lease holders papers. Ignore their ranting and remain calm. If you can, photograph them and their vehicle. If you have no camera write down or memorize their rego make and model of vehicle and description. If their readily produce ID etc then you must listen to what they say, otherwise tell em to piss off.

I know many people have a large number of leases that they may be legally holding but morally it is wrong when they never intend to work them. In the old days you worked your lease or you forfieted it, lets lobby for that rule to be returned.

To make matters worse I heard only yesterday that a committee member of APLA has urged that police book people immediately - without any warning. APLA members (and others) also claim detecting on their leases as expenditure at very high hourly rates. What a rort!!!

As to EL's I will work on any EL with or without permission. If I know the comapany readily gives permission I will ask, if I know they don't too bad, they are going to miss out on all the potentially valuable information I could give them. Most time it is the insurance companies that warn the mining companies not to allow us (recreational prospectors) on their EL's. The insurance companies now run this country.

Small leaseholders must understand that if they are working their lease no recreational detector operator wants to trespass but it is difficult. A great many folk cannot understand a GPS, imaginary lines in cyber space, and all the other crap we are told we have to wade through. I still use a map and compass to navigate, no GPS. My home property has a fence around for anyone to see where the boundaries are. farmers also. If you are a small leaseholder working your lease you should also mark your boundaries with visible makers. Some I have seen do this and they have no problems. Signs and garden stakes with ribbons, each one visible from the next will usually suffice, we may be old and stupid but we are not blind.

I can hear the rant now! The rant is always the same from the leaseholder, IT IS UP TO YOU TO KNOW WHERE THE BOUNDARIES OF MY LEASE ARE. What a load of crap. If you don't want folk to wander on your lease make it visible. if you have twenty plus leases like some greedy operators have, tough titty, you are being too damn greedy.

They many recreational prospectors who visit the WA goldfields every year pour much more money into the local economy than the leasholders who never work their leases and those who hold them in the hope a company will buy them out. Even the few who do work their leases spend relatively little compared to the old retirees who come over here chasing a few nuggets.

I know the laws will never change in favour of the recreational prospector but the leaseholders should know, WE HAVE HAD A GUTFUL OF WORKING ALL OUR LIVES AND THEN BEING TOLD WHERE WE CAN GO IN OUR OWN COUNTRY ON LAND OWNED BY US. WE ARE GETTING SHITTY AND WHEN US OLD BLOKES GET SHITTY ITS TIME FOR THE RSOLES TO WATCH OUT.

Granite.

Well said Granite
And thats it in a nut shell......

The reason WA is so free and easy (relatively) is its a big place with few people.
The more people that come the more rules there will be and after a while it will be like the east.Pretty much all locked up.

Someone here said they were passing through Charters Towers and wanted to stop for a beep.They were told to keep going.
That person (who told them) now has a minelab dealership there so I guess he will sell you a detector but tell you to go to WA to use it.( Or Claremont or a Vic state forest)

What I'm saying I guess is I dont want WA ending up like the eastern states.

I've been beeping in WA for 30 years and the only trouble I've had was with a couple of locals.

Alan

Granite2,
You're spot on. i doff my hat to you.

Alan WA wrote:Someone here said they were passing through Charters Towers and wanted to stop for a beep.They were told to keep going.
That person (who told them) now has a minelab dealership there so I guess he will sell you a detector but tell you to go to WA to use it.( Or Claremont or a Vic state forest)
Alan

I guess that shot is aimed at me so we'd better set the record straight. I have a draft email at my shop that I send to anyone who asks me about information on detecting here, and I tell them the truth as it stands for this area.

All the ground around here is privately owned and permission is needed to detect it, unlike Clermont and other spots that have General Permission Areas (GPA's). If someone asks about a specific area then I can provide information about who to contact to ask for permission if I know the owner, but as most of the landowners have been inconvenienced for years by Mining Companies, many are reluctant to give access, and as some detect themselves on their own properties then access is denied. There are areas that I can't get on, even being a local for 45 years.

Now if this is construed as being told to "Keep on going" then that is the slant that the recipient puts on it, but the truth is as above. I am working towards trying to get some access to areas for visitors and have some spots in mind to start with, but it won't be easy and it won't happen overnight.

Wasn't trying to be nasty there QS. Just trying to point out
the difference between the states.

I just get annoyed when people whinge about bumping into a grumpy local over here.

Good luck with increasing access to your area. A winter there appeals.

I did manage to get into an area west of town in about 1989. (Robe River?)

Alan

gooday alan WA

robe river , maybe it runs into the cape river ,

QLD sandy

hope you do get something going up the towers area, would be good to check the old stomping grounds out again after all these years,
especially the pub with the batwing doors if it is still there. .

cheers...reg

Hello everyone,
More miss conceptions. I laugh.
Anyway, first look in for a while and nothing has changed.
Facts only please.

I came in a bit hard, sorry.
I do admire you sensible folk.

Alan WA wrote:Wasn't trying to be nasty there QS. Just trying to point out
the difference between the states.

I just get annoyed when people whinge about bumping into a grumpy local over here.

Good luck with increasing access to your area. A winter there appeals.

I did manage to get into an area west of town in about 1989. (Robe River?)

Alan

Apologies Alan.

Qld had a prospecting permit once upon a time, that allowed access to areas that landowners were keeping people off. The permit was granted by the Mines Dept and the landowner was notified of the permit.
Now the permit is still in place, but the landowner has to agree and sign it so that defeats the point a little bit.

Access will always be a problem especially when some operators don't do the right thing by sneaking in etc. I had a partner who used to winge about not being allowed here or there by a landowner, but all we had to do was wait till the time was right and we got access when it suited the owner, and after all, it IS their property. I can easily understand how they get to be grumpy.

The area you might be thinking about could be Cape River maybe. Cheers, Peter.

Reg, Peter.

No worries Peter. Talking over the net is different to round the camp fire.

Could have been Cape River.
We turned up to the landholders house to ask permission. All 8 of us.
Me and my family and my sister and hers. 4 adults and 4 kids, aged 3months to 4 years.
Got a long look before he said yes, but he did say yes which was nice. Only stayed a few days and got no gold.

Mt Specimen wasn't too far away but we weren't allowed there.

Alan

HI,PETER,firstly just a few words,not like the ones i have just read,the wa mines tenement site is TENGRAPH just thought i would correct some mistakes,also to all ,look up sandstone on tengraph and see who is the major interested party,and if you have access to the mining lease and el info have a look at the details re expenditure.see ya.john.


quote="Nightjar"]Hi all,
Here is an example of a now Russian owned mine mothballed and a definite "no go" area for prospectors for many square kilometres of alluvial ground. Already has been mentioned, however this is what gets up our noses, not the few Easterners coming over here to prospect.


History

The Thunderbox gold deposit is a relatively recent discovery by Western Australian gold mining standards, having been located through drilling in mid-1999. The deposit was jointly owned by Lionore (60%) and Dalrymple Resources (40%).

The owners conducted a feasibility study in 2001 and predicted a mine life of five years and a gold resource of 850,000 ounces, to be mined in an open-pit operation. The company moved the processing plant from Mount Todd to the mine and first gold production was achieved at the end of 2002^.

In mid-2003, Lionore and Dalrymple announced a merger of the two companies, with the new entity continuing to be called Lionore^.

After good results in the mine's first two years of operation. Thunderbox suffered a difficult 2005, with lower-than-expected production in the second half of the year. Water shortages and equipment reliability issues were two of the main reasons for the decline in production, but write-downs because of its short remaining mine life led to large financial losses for the Thunderbox operation. Lionore at this stage was contemplating selling the mine.
In April 2007, it was once more reported that the mine was for sale.Lionore Mining was taken over by Russian company Norilsk in June 2007,after a biding war between Norilsk and Xstrata saw the former succeeding with the higher offer. Xstrata had originally offered C$18.50 for every Lionore share, countered by a Norilsk offer of C$21.50 per share. Xstrata raised their offer to C$25, which forced Norilsk to present a final offer of C$27.50.Shortly after the takeover, Norilsk announced that it would not continue mining at Thunderbox, instead preferring to concentrate on the company's nickel projects. The mine eventually closed in November 2007.

After the closure of the mine, Norilsk used the camp at Thunderbox for accommodation for its workers at the nearby Waterloo Nickel Mine, until the later was placed into care and maintenance, too.

No plans for a reopening of the mine have been announced.[/quote]