Re: All hail the mighty Zed!!!!

Guest Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:09 pm

slimpickens wrote:
Dave, could you or anyone else with a GPZed do an air test with a standardised target like a 50 cent piece so the rest of us can compare it to our GPX machines. I know it's not the same as a target under ground, but it will gain us some knowledge. Thanks

G'day Slim

Getting to know the Zed a bit better and so I did the 50 cent air test for you or anyone else that is interested.

This is what I did, I had the detector running nicely for a while during the morning in our nearest gold field (80km) away from home, using settings that I could use all day, and the same settings that found a small specie and hour or so earlier, just so you know the detector was not ramped up to the max and difficult to use.

Setting were: "General" and "Difficult" sensitivity 12, tone 38, threshold 25, volume 12, auto tracking, and using a B&Z booster and dual speakers plugged into the WM module.

Result, the 50 cent laying flat on the ground could be easily detected at 550mm (55cm) and could still be detected at 600mm (60cm) though the signal was starting to become less distinctive. This was in a gold field air test, and the ground is reasonably well mineralised.

cheers dave

slimpickens Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:32 pm

Thanks Dave, will be noted for next trip. This is a simple comparison test for the GPZeds.
Who it will help straight away is anyone whose GPZed doesn't seem to be on par. Someone like Aurumick, who's machine isn't the same as Mike54's, has now, with your test, something to compare it with. Maybe all Zed users should carry a 50c piece and Davsgold's settings with them to give it a go. And post the results! Carn't hurt.
PS. And no cheating by using a round silver 50 cent piece! Twisted Evil

All hail the mighty Zed!!!! - Page 4 Loupe11

Setting were: "General" and "Difficult" sensitivity 12, tone 38, threshold 25, volume 12, auto tracking, and using a B&Z booster and dual speakers plugged into the WM module. Audio smoothing on "High"

You can do this test with or without a Booster
Since a lot of people don't use a booster, both results should be of benefit.

"Result, the 50 cent laying flat on the ground could be easily detected at 550mm (55cm) and could still be detected at 600mm (60cm) though the signal was starting to become less distinctive." Davsgold.

*** For precise measuring of height, mark off a 1 metre wooden tomato stake in 50mm increments allowing 100mm on the pointy end to stick in the ground. I always carry one in the car, but mine's marked in inches. -- Harry

Guest Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:35 pm

PS: just to add to the settings I used, I had the audio smoothing on "High"

cheers dave

slimpickens Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:47 pm

davsgold wrote:PS: just to add to the settings I used, I had the audio smoothing on "High"

cheers dave

Anything else Dave, Rolling Eyes

lucky socks, salt thrown over left shoulder, special prayers etc. etc. Q41

Jack outwest Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:14 pm

I got so excited after seeing Dave's test I did the same with a hot VLF in the backyard ( don't have a 7000 ) . Embarassed

Ground - pretty mineralised .
Detector Tesoro Tejon standard coil 9x8" in all metal , ground balanced & on the highest sensitivity before chatter .

Result ~ Clear signal at 40cm , could still pick it up at 45cm .

Having fun V07

Jack

Guest Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:09 am

G'day slim, Dave & Jack,

I did try the 50€ test, but because I don't have the B&Z booster I felt it wasn't a fair test. Also didn't have a tape measure with me, but I will try it again, but I may have to bump up the sensitivity to compensate for not having a B&Z booster and see how it goes then. It did look like it was close looking at it by my eye site though. Shocked

Will keep you all updated on how I go with the correct tools. Laughing

PS I will get young Mick to do it as well.

Cheers.

Mike.

Guest Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:43 am

Mike54 wrote:G'day slim, Dave & Jack,

I did try the 50€ test, but because I don't have the B&Z booster I felt it wasn't a fair test. Also didn't have a tape measure with me, but I will try it again, but I may have to bump up the sensitivity to compensate for not having a B&Z booster and see how it goes then. It did look like it was close looking at it by my eye site though. Will keep you all updated on how I go with the correct tools.

PS I will get young Mick to do it as well.

Cheers.

Mike.

Hi Mike - if you & young Mick do the 50c test would ya's mind doing it with the Audio Smoothing "off" also?
Want to see if running the GPZ quieter in High or with more feedback in Off has any difference to this test?
Many thanks in advance if you blokes or anyone else (Davsgold?) can do this.

AUoptimist Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:34 am

Hi Mike 54,
Like most here that have purchased a 7000 we are all trying various settings, RE: Dave's 50 cent test with the BZ booster, I think you would be closer to the mark if you increased the 7000 volume to take into account not running an audio booster, increasing the sensitivity would more likely just increase the background noise.
Try both settings and see how you go. Cheers, AUoptimist.

Inhere Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:48 am

Jack outwest wrote:I got so excited after seeing Dave's test I did the same with a hot VLF in the backyard ( don't have a 7000 ) .

Ground - pretty mineralised .
Detector Tesoro Tejon standard coil 9x8" in all metal , ground balanced & on the highest sensitivity before chatter .

Result ~ Clear signal at 40cm , could still pick it up at 45cm .

Having fun
Jack

This demonstrates that air tests are rubbish with these detectors and are an absolute waste of time!

The Sodd Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:32 pm

Totally agree Inhere,
Air tests will tell you your machine is working, picking up a target and and approximation of what sort of response to expect.

And by the way, from what I've seen so far (in ground tests done this weekend) I happen to totally agree with slimpickens in this thread https://golddetecting.forumotion.net/t21074-lets-cut-out-this-bullsht that the moderator decided to close because of the "negative comments".
Cheers
Sodd

Inhere Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:00 pm

The Sodd wrote:Totally agree Inhere,
Air tests will tell you your machine is working, picking up a target and and approximation of what sort of response to expect.

And by the way, from what I've seen so far (in ground tests done this weekend) I happen to totally agree with slimpickens in this thread https://golddetecting.forumotion.net/t21074-lets-cut-out-this-bullsht that the moderator decided to close because of the "negative comments".
Cheers
Sodd

Well The Sodd, start a thread, everyone is interested in ground tests.
Just state, by whom, where, how and observed results. Wink

slimpickens Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:53 pm

Inhere wrote: This demonstrates that air tests are rubbish with these detectors and are an absolute waste of time!

Lord give me strength!
Ok Inhere I'll bite, even though your trying your best to stir the pot. Twisted Evil

Here goes nuthin. Rolling Eyes

The questions are in blue, in case you have a difficult time trying to find them.

If for example, Mike 54 and young Mike did this exact test, each with their own machine, with the same settings, and one of their GPZed's picks up the target 6" (152mm) higher than the other, would this not tell them one machine is better than the other and that one machine might need to go back to Minelab for a retune? How is this a waste of time?

T37

Inhere Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:26 pm

slimpickens wrote:
Inhere wrote: This demonstrates that air tests are rubbish with these detectors and are an absolute waste of time!

Lord give me strength!
Ok Inhere I'll bite, even though your trying your best to stir the pot.

Here goes nuthin. The questions are in blue, in case you have a difficult time trying to find them.

If for example, Mike 54 and young Mike did this exact test, each with their own machine, with the same settings, and one of their GPZed's picks up the target 6" (152mm) higher than the other, would this not tell them one machine is better than the other and that one machine might need to go back to Minelab for a retune? How is this a waste of time?

The Sodd had it right, "Air tests will tell you your machine is working, picking up a target and and approximation of what sort of response to expect."

You have 10cm difference between a sub thousand dollar VLF and a $10,700 state of the art detector and you need to ask???
Do you think that will hold the same in mineralised ground? .....or maybe you can tell us what can one discover from this foolishness?
What will you think if young Mick's 7000 equals Mikes 7000? But hey, go for it! It's at least as scientific as holding one detector in each hand
and guessing which is best by the weight.

The Sodd Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:40 pm

Slim,
Maybe we have erred in stating our opinions. They have gone to the dark side and know not what they swing. Of course these guys have to defend their outlay of 10.7K, I would too if I'd of bought one ..... and very nearly did. I'm a ML man through and through, have always been but not this time.

Inhere,
I was merely agreeing with you about air tests and disseminating some first hand info. I'm not about to open a can of worms which will turn into a "who's got a bigger pecker" arguement. As we all know, if you weren't present you'll pick the results to pieces. And it don't matter if it's on YouTube either, it get's picked to pieces too.

All I need to know is that "All Hail The Mighty Zed" is not what it's cracked up to be. Sorry Guys and Gals. Slim tried to tell ya and now I'm just confirming what he's said. What I will tell you is that there were 4 of us present and the 5's had the 7 for Brekkie. The 7 operator was very experienced and we were very patient with him so he could try everything. So that's 4 more that won't be buying 7's.
Cheers
Sodd

Doofus Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:43 pm

As an inexperienced detectorist who has been following this with interest, I have some questions for the experts.
Has it ever entered your minds that all you have is a new coil attached to a 3030 or 2300 for that matter ??
Does anyone actually know what is inside the control box ? was there any super duper upgrade done to make it better than a 5000 ?
Why is it, that a 5000 can use a wider range of coils and has SALT settings but the 7000 has none ? all you have is one coil of a new design.
Some serious questions need to be answered for $10,700
Just my questions and opinions. Attack me all ya like.

Inhere Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:22 pm

Doofus wrote:As an inexperienced detectorist who has been following this with interest, I have some questions for the experts.
Has it ever entered your minds that all you have is a new coil attached to a 3030 or 2300 for that matter ??
Does anyone actually know what is inside the control box ? was there any super duper upgrade done to make it better than a 5000 ?
Why is it, that a 5000 can use a wider range of coils and has SALT settings but the 7000 has none ? all you have is one coil of a new design.
Some serious questions need to be answered for $10,700
Just my questions and opinions. Attack me all ya like.

As I understand it, this is totally new tech, there is no way it's a 3030 with a different coil. My information is that Bruce Candy has
been working this past 8 years developing this detector and appears confident that it is way better than the past PI's.
I know a guy who has almost paid for his 7000 in the gold found in several 4 hour days.

There is no doubt that it is a better detector than the GPX as far as performance goes, the downside is, only one 14" coil and it's heavy for
older people or women........and the other big downside is that $10,700 and it wont find gold where there is none!!!

Guest Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:29 pm

Hi
They haven't done the 50cent piece test yet.
Been a busy day..
I think they said they will try it tomorrow.

Sorry all.

Inhere Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:30 pm

The Sodd wrote:

Inhere,
I was merely agreeing with you about air tests and disseminating some first hand info. I'm not about to open a can of worms which will turn into a "who's got a bigger pecker" arguement. As we all know, if you weren't present you'll pick the results to pieces. And it don't matter if it's on YouTube either, it get's picked to pieces too.

Cheers
Sodd

That's fair enough mate, but you already opened a can of worms with your "that there were 4 of us present and the 5's had the 7 for Brekkie."
So if you make statements like that IMO, you do need to explain them. My whom, where and how, should be a minimum!

slimpickens Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:33 pm

Inhere wrote:
slimpickens wrote:
Inhere wrote: This demonstrates that air tests are rubbish with these detectors and are an absolute waste of time!

Lord give me strength!
Ok Inhere I'll bite, even though your trying your best to stir the pot.

Here goes nuthin. The questions are in blue, in case you have a difficult time trying to find them.

If for example, Mike 54 and young Mike did this exact test, each with their own machine, with the same settings, and one of their GPZed's picks up the target 6" (152mm) higher than the other, would this not tell them one machine is better than the other and that one machine might need to go back to Minelab for a retune? How is this a waste of time?

The Sodd had it right, "Air tests will tell you your machine is working, picking up a target and and approximation of what sort of response to expect."

You have 10cm difference between a sub thousand dollar VLF and a $10,700 state of the art detector and you need to ask???
Do you think that will hold the same in mineralised ground? .....or maybe you can tell us what can one discover from this foolishness?
What will you think if young Mick's 7000 equals Mikes 7000? But hey, go for it! It's at least as scientific as holding one detector in each hand
and guessing which is best by the weight.

I just knew you wouldn't answer the question. Why won't you answer the specific question Inhere? Why have you gone off on tangents totally unrelated to the questions I asked. I don't know what other language to say it in that you would understand. Maybe it's my fault, maybe my way of asking this simple question is in the form that can't be grasped by some people and for that I apologise.
Let me try one more time. I'm not trying to be patronising, I'm just going to assume by the facts presented so far, that you really can't grasp and understand the question. No big deal, no one's perfect. (I hope Mike & Mick don't mind me using them as an example)
Mike54's detector goes 6" deeper than young Micks in the example I have given. Mike54's machine is obviously more powerful isn't it? Knowing this, young Mick can take appropriate action to try to remedy this. Haven't they learned something from this simple air test? And whether it's in the air or in heavily mineralised soil, Mike54's detector will always be more powerful than Micks, the soil won't change this. Only a retune back at Minelab can change this.

I think we'll just get back to agreeing to disagree.

Jims Gold Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:42 pm

Inhere wrote:
Doofus wrote:As an inexperienced detectorist who has been following this with interest, I have some questions for the experts.
Has it ever entered your minds that all you have is a new coil attached to a 3030 or 2300 for that matter ??
Does anyone actually know what is inside the control box ? was there any super duper upgrade done to make it better than a 5000 ?
Why is it, that a 5000 can use a wider range of coils and has SALT settings but the 7000 has none ? all you have is one coil of a new design.
Some serious questions need to be answered for $10,700
Just my questions and opinions. Attack me all ya like.
As I understand it, this is totally new tech, there is no way it's a 3030 with a different coil. My information is that Bruce Candy has
been working this past 8 years developing this detector and appears confident that it is way better than the past PI's.
I know a guy who has almost paid for his 7000 in the gold found in several 4 hour days.

There is no doubt that it is a better detector than the GPX as far as performance goes, the downside is, only one 14" coil and it's heavy for
older people or women........and the other big downside is that $10,700 and it wont find gold where there is none!!!

You make that statement emphatically and I say just as emphatically that there is plenty of doubt.

Doofus Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:50 pm

Inhere wrote:
Doofus wrote:As an inexperienced detectorist who has been following this with interest, I have some questions for the experts.
Has it ever entered your minds that all you have is a new coil attached to a 3030 or 2300 for that matter ??
Does anyone actually know what is inside the control box ? was there any super duper upgrade done to make it better than a 5000 ?
Why is it, that a 5000 can use a wider range of coils and has SALT settings but the 7000 has none ? all you have is one coil of a new design.
Some serious questions need to be answered for $10,700
Just my questions and opinions. Attack me all ya like.
As I understand it, this is totally new tech, there is no way it's a 3030 with a different coil. My information is that Bruce Candy has
been working this past 8 years developing this detector and appears confident that it is way better than the past PI's.
I know a guy who has almost paid for his 7000 in the gold found in several 4 hour days.

There is no doubt that it is a better detector than the GPX as far as performance goes, the downside is, only one 14" coil and it's heavy for
older people or women........and the other big downside is that $10,700 and it wont find gold where there is none!!!

Yes, they say it is new tech. But do you really expect ML to say what it actually is. How can you say it is better than a GPX when video evidence has shown otherwise.
Where are the deep digs and I mean deep digs for gold ? We have seen deep digs for big targets with a 5000.
I seriously doubt the 7000 will ever outdo the 5000 and ML know it.
It's just a money grab and people would have been better off buying the 2300 to go with what ever they have.
But that's just my opinion and I"m in 2 minds as to how much money I spend. I'm at the point now, I won't be depleting my bank account to the tune of $10,700

Inhere Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:08 pm

Jims Gold wrote:
Inhere wrote:
As I understand it, this is totally new tech, there is no way it's a 3030 with a different coil. My information is that Bruce Candy has
been working this past 8 years developing this detector and appears confident that it is way better than the past PI's.
I know a guy who has almost paid for his 7000 in the gold found in several 4 hour days.

There is no doubt that it is a better detector than the GPX as far as performance goes, the downside is, only one 14" coil and it's heavy for
older people or women........and the other big downside is that $10,700 and it wont find gold where there is none!!!

You make that statement emphatically and I say just as emphatically that there is plenty of doubt.

Ha, guess it just isn't my night, 2 disagreeing with me in 2 posts Very Happy

Well Jim, I been getting reports from down your way from someone that has been going really well with the 7000.
Do you own one? have you tried more than one?

Inhere Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:19 pm

Doofus wrote:

Yes, they say it is new tech. But do you really expect ML to say what it actually is. How can you say it is better than a GPX when video evidence has shown otherwise.
Well, I do expect Minelab to say what it actually is???? I haven't seen such a video, have you?
Where are the deep digs and I mean deep digs for gold ? We have seen deep digs for big targets with a 5000.
I seriously doubt the 7000 will ever outdo the 5000 and ML know it.
It's just a money grab and people would have been better off buying the 2300 to go with what ever they have.
But that's just my opinion and I"m in 2 minds as to how much money I spend. I'm at the point now, I won't be depleting my bank account to the tune of $10,700
Well you have a lot of opinions for a self confessed inexperienced detectorist, but hey It's your money and your choice and to be honest,
I couldn't care less.

CostasDee Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:23 pm

Let's not let this topic degenerate into a personal attacking session guys, attack the machine but not the poster. If this continues along the same path, I'll have to lock it down until tempers simmer...

The Sodd Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:25 pm

Jen,
Yes, there was a 50c piece test also done and it was done in ground. And to be fair we ran an 11" stock mono on the 5's against the 7's 14" DuD coil. NO AIR TEST RUBBISH.

Like I mentioned before, I'm posting to back up Slim and I'm doing that because we actually took the time and tested and we were only able to do that because of the generousity of a 7 owner (who I have a lot of respect for and is a damn good operator) who wanted the truth himself.

I got annoyed that slim's thread got closed down because of "negative comments" and the trolls jumping on his case because he stated (as we found out) his findings and opinion. I'm not getting into arguments, I really don't give a rats, but I do feel for those that outlaid the $ and I also feel let down by a company that I have supported during my time in this great hobby of ours.

I apologise if I come across a little blunt. But as Slim has mentioned, enough of the BS and hype, he has stated his opinion and findings, it's been verified to both others and my satisfaction ...... get out and do your own testing, and enough of the troll crud.
Cheers
Sodd

Guest Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:55 pm

As far as I can tell Slims post was based on opinion & what he'd heard so far - not his findings? Not wanting an argument but can't see anywhere that he says that he's done any testing let alone comprehensive testing of the GPZ?
The Sodd - have you blokes posted your comprehensive findings i.e. depths, targets, settings GPX & GPZ, time becoming familiarised with GPZ, ground, etc. somewhere yet. I am interested in tests, in ground test's would be ideal not air testing, of the audio smoothing I.e. targets with it off then the same targets in high. I want to know if running it "hot" with more feedback can make a depth difference.

Something else I read interests me. The threshold of the GPZ has been likened more to that of the SDC. Was wondering if people now used to running the SDC are more tolerant of the GPZ over people coming from the smooth threshold of the GPX. Just a thought & I could see how some people would find that difficult? Like learning a new language.

Guest Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:03 pm

The Sodd wrote:Jen,
Yes, there was a 50c piece test also done and it was done in ground. And to be fair we ran an 11" stock mono on the 5's against the 7's 14" DuD coil. NO AIR TEST RUBBISH.

Like I mentioned before, I'm posting to back up Slim and I'm doing that because we actually took the time and tested and we were only able to do that because of the generousity of a 7 owner (who I have a lot of respect for and is a damn good operator) who wanted the truth himself.

I got annoyed that slim's thread got closed down because of "negative comments" and the trolls jumping on his case because he stated (as we found out) his findings and opinion. I'm not getting into arguments, I really don't give a rats, but I do feel for those that outlaid the $ and I also feel let down by a company that I have supported during my time in this great hobby of ours.

I apologise if I come across a little blunt. But as Slim has mentioned, enough of the BS and hype, he has stated his opinion and findings, it's been verified to both others and my satisfaction ...... get out and do your own testing, and enough of the troll crud.
Cheers
Sodd

Hi Sodd

We all want the truth..
And I don't believe in air test..
As gold in the ground is completely different.
But they said they would do the 50 cent test. Just to compare machines.

By all means attack this machine.. Just don't attack each other..

Here I will start!
I don't know why the hell this machine had to be so damn dear.. Is it because we brought a sdc2300 +GPX5000 combo.. And it's supposed to also have a gpx5000 on steroids built in as well..?? So in other words a three in one machine?

I haven't seen the steroid bit yet! Unless we are all running the machines wrong V19

I still feel my find was a fluky one.. Mike doesn't think it was...
As we haven't been able to do it since, and there is a lot of deep ground
There. Surly with 2 gpz7000's there ...we would have found at least one more deep bit..
We can tell how deep the ground is by the old timers dig holes!

Yes it seems to go deep!!! on coins & Rust... But we all want it to go deep on GOLD.. So I am guessing it has to be a certain type of gold.. V19

Maybe there isn't any of this type of gold where we have been trying.. I don't know.. I don't have X-Ray vision!
I feel if everyone is feeling the same way.
Then this machine is not doing what it is meant to do!

As for it being heavy.. Yes it is.. BUT.. If you use the harness and bungy or hipstick.. You can swing it ok..
Maybe still not all day.
I have never whinged about a minelab detector before.. mike and I and son have owned just about everyone of them.. Damn good machines.

P.s Doug..( M.P ) My words are mine! copywrite!!!!!

Martin R Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:05 pm

Jen58 wrote:
P.s Doug..( M.P ) My words are mine! copywrite!!!!!

Doofus Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:13 pm

Sorry for getting a bit heated with my opinions. This new machine is truly in it's new days but so far, I do not see it surpassing the 5000.
It will take time to tell if it is better but I don't see it happening.
I'm hoping CT or NF can replicate the new coil design to suite the GPX detectors.
Only then, I reckon will we find out the truth.
Cheers

Inhere Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:43 pm

Doofus wrote:Sorry for getting a bit heated with my opinions. This new machine is truly in it's new days but so far, I do not see it surpassing the 5000.
It will take time to tell if it is better but I don't see it happening.
I'm hoping CT or NF can replicate the new coil design to suite the GPX detectors.
Only then, I reckon will we find out the truth.
Cheers

We all just have opinions Doofus, yours may be right, who knows, It will all be revealed in time. Wink