COIL SELLERS ON EBAY BEWARE

Gday


I just want to make members on this site aware of what has been going on in regards to selling coils on ebay.

It was just brought to my attention that a friend had a Minelab 15"x12" eliptical mono for sale on ebay, he was selling it for another friend as a favour, as these coils are fetching very high prices there is a fair bit of competition going on between bidders and things are getting nasty.

On selling this coil an invoice was sent to the buyer, the reply that the buyer responded with was that if the seller didnt send the coil to another address for a lower amount then he would report that he suspected Shill bidding had been going on and get them to investigate it, the result of this is that the sale has been lost and ebay can suspend the account while its being investigated, this is the sort of intimidation and blackmail tactics that are being used by these scumbags.

I believe that there are other sellers that have been targetted by this person and have lost sales and money due to it.

So if you are contemplating selling any of these coils you will have to be very careful by the sounds of things.

cheers


stayyerAU

G/Day stayyer AU,

I think it would be a safe bet that Shill Bidding is Rife throughout Ebay right across the board, I just take it for granted that this sort of thing goes on all the time. Yes the people who do this are cheating scumbags.
I am not too sure how you could track down a shill Bidder. I managed to get a couple of Buyer/seller accounts cancelled because they did the dirty on me but it wasn't an easy thing to do and it took a lot of persistence on my part in gathering evidence to present to Ebay.

On the other hand, any item will always sell for whatever someone is prepared to pay whether there are shill bids or not, It is up to the buyer to know the true value of what he is bidding on and only pay up to what he thinks the item is worth to him. If a bidder goes over what he thinks is a fair price then he has no argument, he has payed what he was prepared to in order to win the item.

This is BLACKMAIL and can easily be reported to Ebay. It's also Fraud so I'd get police involved because the Fraud Squad now handles Ebay sales. The person sending the message will be forced to close their account and may face criminal charges. Furthermore, such people can be blocked from bidding via two methods in the options menu. This prevent people with bad history or a less than a certain number of feedback from even bidding in the first place. It would be helpful to post the name of this person so other sellers can block him from viewing their listings.

I don't doubt that Shill Bidding occurs on Ebay but I once reported what I felt was a Shill Bidder and Ebay immediately screened all of his account activity before reporting back to me (while I waited) that the suspected Shill Bidder had places proxy bids on all the items a day in advance - which meant the bidder was using legitimate methods of bidding and that I was mistaken.

As for coils, I'm thinking about listing one that I'm not using myself at the moment which is otherwise in demand at present. I'm not concerned in the slightest if it doesn't sell... I just like selling things occasionally on eBay. It even annoys me a little when things sell via the Buy-it-now option because then I have nothing to maintain or monitor in my sales account.

By the way, notice how few large monos there are left on Ebay this week? Every one of them was snapped up a few days ago. Even Bendigo's never-ending list of Nugget Finders are all gone... including some large round coils as well. Now's the time to be selling. There will likely be a week long window of opportunity starting yesterday. After this, the market will probably dip again.

It amuses me just how many other Ebay sellers get their nose out of joint when your own item is selling above their own. That's when the hate mail starts flooding in. The point of an Auction house (even one online like Ebay) is to get top dollar for the item you are selling. I can't complain when I see something sell way above RRP because someone else wants it bad enough to pay bazillions for it simply because it's hard to find or impossible to buy. Remember the iPhones and X-Boxes that sold for tens of thousands of dollars? That was because they were scarce at the time and some people want to pay more to have one before anyone else. Right now, certain coils are scarce and there's huge demand for them. Those who manage to buy them immediately can sell them onwards for much more. The asking price in lower Europe and Africa right now for Minelab/Commander 15" x 12" Monoloop coils is currently $5,000 each. Why is it any suprise that some people on Ebay are buying and selling them at up to $3K for a used one and $4K for a new one?

I wonder what the next hot item will be? I'm still guessing it will be Dry Blowers.

Cheers,



Marco

What makes no sense is the coil that is in demand its just not suited for sudan, it would be more suited to hilly rocky areas with tussocks etc, having a look at the videos of the sudan it looks all sandy and open and the size of the gold being found the very best coil for the situation would be a large round mono from 16 inches to 25 inches for two reasons in a virgin gold field with huge nuggets you would want to cover as much ground as fast as possible, an 18 inch mono will cover twice or more ground than a 15x12 elip in a day it also has the depth in the centre and is sensitive around its large circumference with this in mind i know what coil i would be after if i was there little coil or big coil? also to cover more ground i would go the mono over the dd, i cannot understand why they havnt worked this out, lets see we can cover 200 square metres a day with this small coil and most likely miss any big deep tarkets or cover 400 or 500 Square metres a day and miss nothing, also ive got the goldstalker 18 roound mono and when i got it the first thing that i noticed was that it was lighter than the 11 inch dd so with that in mind you would think the 18 gs would be lighter than a 15x12 dd im not sure of the weight of the mono 15x12, its just common sense to use a large coil especially if your going to pay thousands of dollars for it, i cant figure out they dont yet know this and that they are waisting there money on those commander coils when there are better options out there $ 5000 for a 15x12 heavy coil thats just not suited to the perpurse intended and covers less ground is totally INSANE, 5 grand wow just wow

HI Marco,
Interesting that your Ebay problem was solved quickly; It wasn't until I proved a fault I unearthed in the Feedback Reporting system that Ebay took notice of my complaints, I even had to drag American Ebay into the argument, still, once the problems were recognised then everthing was resolve fairly quickly (about 3 weeks from start to finish).

There is no doubt that certain coil prices are going crazy, I guess somebody is finding good gold with them.
I am pretty sure that if I had a couple of 450 dollar coils that somebody was happy to give me 3000 for one, then that is where I would sell it; Unfortunately, or sometimes fortunately, money talks.

I'm guessing here, but I think what happened is that someone found gold with the Semi-Elliptical 15x12 Mono in the Sudan ...and word simply got around from there. With SO MUCH large gold lying about there, it was really just a matter of time. With a delay in obtaining these coils for the moment, the buyers have had to turn to other brands like CT and NF - which has been a fantastic way for them to get their names out there and generate more market penetration for their own coils.

The people demanding the coils here and in the USA are simply responding to the demands phoned in to them from their friends, families and business associates in Africa... and they are all getting whipped into a frenzy on the subject of coils - but can't be convinced to listen to sound advice or look to other options easily. If you've ever seen the Japanese go through a fad, you'll know what I'm talking about. The fad usually burns out after a few months. The latest Japanese fad was Mayonnaise... they even had cocktail bars serving cocktails made from the stuff, t-shirts, national songs sung about it and ridiculous prices being paid for it in the supermarkets. Some were hoarding it like bullion. In the 80s it was Sticky Rice and later Koala Bears. The Japanese seem to go through a fad every few years or so.

The last African fad which was astounding to watch unfold was over something called "Red Mercury" - a mythical substance which probably doesn't even exist. People were so obsessed with Red Mercury (a "rare substance" which supposedly has military uses and was infinitely more valuable that Platinum... rumored to be selling for millions of dollars for a gram) that they were buying old Singer Singer Sewing machines simply because the rumors circulating stated the 1950s paint on them contained traces of Red Mercury. People in India were trading these sewing machines for up to $17,000 on the misguided belief that their buyers would be able to extract the Red Mercury from the paint on them. Forget the fact that none of them even knew what the stuff looked like. It was pure mayhem. And in the end it probably died down. But a lot of idiots spent money on the stuff and NONE of them would listen to reason. I was seeing the same thing with the metal detectors before January ...and now coils.

UPDATE: March 2010: The obsession with Red Mercury is STILL continuing.... RED MERCURY LINK

If you want to understand the insanity with coils etc, just take a look at the Red Mercury link above and you might start to understand the way people from this region think and operate. Some amusing comments at the bottom of the page.



Cheers,

Marco

gollstar you ever tried digging a hole with an open weave coils, only just heard that they are using the solid coils to dig up targets. (no more wrys about carrying a pick around now)
Im stilling getting over the picture of using a detector coil as a shovel.
stayyer AU your not the only one, the bloke i knew had the same thing tried on him he just said F off and selected the next higest bidder who brought it.

It funny how much we seem to cherish this feedback on fleabay, almost like some sorta statis symbol.

Nero trying to work out how this is fraud? care to explain i though fraud was selling something you dont own? knowingly presenting false cheques receiveing welfare payments while working etc, blackmailing well yes but fraud?.
Regards
John

Folks... (ahem)... Red Mercury Mania just hit THE SUDAN!

This site has a picture of it but I suspect it's a scam because he's selling a kilo of the stuff for the same price as the guy below is selling per gram.
http://www.tradekey.com/selloffer_view/id/3849940.htm


http://cleantrader.en.ec21.com/
"We have red mercury available in Sudan, origin from South Africa, 97%
to 99% in purity, $300000 to $500000 per gram depending on how many
grams are bought.


Available on demand.


Sam King (tradesATlive.co.uk)"




Someone is laughing all the way to the bank here. Time to drag mom's sewing machine out of the basement and pop it on Ebay.

Cheers,

Marco

freshwater wrote:
Nero trying to work out how this is fraud? care to explain i though fraud was selling something you dont own? knowingly presenting false cheques receiveing welfare payments while working etc, blackmailing well yes but fraud?.
Regards
John

Dishonesty (eg Blackmail) is considered to be a form of fraudulence since in this case the good were agreed to be paid for at the amount, and under the terms, of the original contract. The Ebay contract is enforceable by law although rarely this is pursued. Charges of Fraud are usually leveled at someone who has falsified a document in order to obtain good, services or benefits by some form of deception. Hence demanding someone sell an item to you at a lower price "or else" (which is a violation of the contracted terms of an eBay sale) is a deliberate (intentional) violation of the terms of contract.

Bait And Switch is an acknowledged form of fraud for example.

Here's Wikipedia's sense of the term:
"In the broadest sense, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent. The specific legal definition varies by legal jurisdiction. Fraud is a crime, and also a civil law violation. Defrauding people or entities of money or valuables is a common purpose of fraud, but there have also been fraudulent "discoveries", e.g. in science, to gain prestige rather than immediate monetary gain."

I'd say that the Ebay sale concerning threatening notes and demands to drop the price 'or else' is certainly a form of fraudulent activity. The buyer falsely represented his intentions until after the sale, hoping to get an item more cheaply than to pay the market value for the item (which is whatever he paid for it). If you buy and sell on Ebay, just roll with the punches. It's usually a useful place to buy and sell things you otherwise wouldn't be able to obtain more easily.

ALSO: (QUOTE/Snip) "the result of this is that the sale has been lost and ebay can suspend the account while its being investigated," Ebay will ONLY suspend the account if Shill Bidding has been proven. The threat is therefore empty and should be reported immediately. If your frind can't find a suitable channel to contact Ebays fraud team, I can supply it to you via PM as it is hard to find on the site.

Cheers,

Marco

This thread has got to be some kind of record; We have gone from metal detectors to over priced coils to Ebay fraud to floggin Red mercury in the Sudan in less than one page, man that is some kind of topic jumping.
We used what I called Red Mercury in the RAAF, facinating stuff, hang on maybe that was just mercuric oxide.
If it is in singer sowing machine needles then why buy the machines? Just go down to yer local SpotLight and snap up a few singer needles of the shelf for a buck or two.

Just for another topic change. Does anybody have any idea why canberra tap water glows under ultraviolet light?? HHMMMMM!! I kid you not people.

Its all the flouride in the water to keep the politicians dumbed down so they can keep selling the country down the drain so to speak.

Adrian SS wrote:This thread has got to be some kind of record; We have gone from metal detectors to over priced coils to Ebay fraud to floggin Red mercury in the Sudan in less than one page, man that is some kind of topic jumping.

I think you may have confused this thread with another.

This thread was about Ebay sales concerning coils and fraudulent buyers (not sellers this time). The prices of which are driven by an obsession in Africa with the same said coils. The same irrational obsession that drives an interest in Red Mercury (not the oxidized stuff). And here we are. Don't worry, it's still on topic.

Cheers,

Marco

Hey did you know that the PM is a Chinese with a face lift, n hair dye

gollstar wrote:Its all the flouride in the water to keep the politicians dumbed down so they can keep selling the country down the drain so to speak.

Hey maybe that's why my teeth go green in the sunlight coz of the hole in the Ozone layer and all that UV getting through

Hey marco! Lighten up dude, I'm in a good mood 2day n havin some fun.
Dun be sooooo nit picky. Or is that pikky, or pichy, or pikey piki, or pici

"but there have also been fraudulent "discoveries", e.g. in science, to gain prestige rather than immediate monetary gain."

very relevant in prospecting and forums

Hi all
Time for a dumb question!! What is shill bidding??

TED

TenOzTed wrote:Hi all
Time for a dumb question!! What is shill bidding??

TED

Shill = Person who bids on an item, pretending to be interested in it. Secretly, he is employed by the seller.

In the days of the Snake Oil Salesman where some sham doctor would roam from town to town selling a secret 'elixir' or medicine in a bottle (sometimes made from the oil of rattlesnakes), the seller would often have a person in the crowd in his employment who would step forward and ask a question or even simply offer money immediately to buy the product - and this would encourage others in the crowd to do the same. The shills were not real customers. But they got the crowd to start buying the product. The shill might later be paid a fee for his services or the seller would share the money made from the sale.

Today, a shill is often used to assist con-artists or confidence tricksters by giving the impression that the product works by offering false testimony or buying the product, driving up interest in the product and increasing the perceived value. Today, viral ads on the internet are considered to be a form of shilling.

On Ebay, a "shill bid" is usually when a seller has a second acount which is used to place bids to drive up the price on an item. Shill bids are sometimes placed by a friend of the seller. This is not permitted on Ebay but is hard to prove and hard to enforce.

Cheers,

Marco

The money is there for the coils but it is an absolute haslte,but well worth it for the payout. theres buyers making sure they win and telling you after they made a mistake and will only pay $1000 less, theres buyers who cant pay the prices but will bid to win just to hold up shipping over of detecting gear.Sold my coil on ebay last week for an unbelievable price, the fool told me he made the bid while he was sleepy and made a mistake and could only pay me if it was $1000 cheaper, but still it was a fantastic price. finally negotiated wth three different people and good money went into my account today, but only after i relsted it on ebay for a day and gave them a bit of a fright that someone else was going to get it.
Also looks like ive sold a couple of NF sl monos to the USA for a good sum, not as good as i was paid for the commanders but much more than i paid for them new, still only a agreemnt on price for this , no money yet, .while the ebay listing was running, i recieved 11 offers from 11 diff people,USA,UK and AUS. PHILL

Sounds like yer on a roll. Don't get burned

sold my coil on ebay $1000 bucks cash in hand just got to be careful cheers Goinbush

Still doesnt explain why they want the poxy eliptical and not the big round monos.

Its called "Sergeant Shultz syndrome"

[quote="gollstar"]Still doesnt explain why they want the poxy eliptical and not the big round monos.[
/quote]


Gday Gollstar


Its the same as why they wanted the 4500 over everything else, if the gold is so plentyful and close to the surface like it is on a lot of newly discovered ground then they would be killing the pig with any sd or gp detector, I have heard that the hunger for the 4500 has died out due to them being able to buy cheaper Chinese and Turkish made 4500's, go figure.

Remember that in most cases you are dealing with some ignorant and poorly educated people that are on the working end, so if it looks like a shovel then it must be a shovel, and if you dont happen to have a shovel then you use the next best thing at hand .

Its the people at the top who are making all the loot and calling the shots, I was told that the much sought after minelab 15x12 eliptical mono coils are fetching $9000 a piece over there at the moment, possibly driven by the fact that someone found big gold with one and then was able to dig it up with it as well, its a lot harder to dig with a round coil as you know.


cheers


stayyerAU

Geez, you can just picture it!
A down on his luck uneducated Afro gets all cashed up (somehow) travels a zillion kays out to Australia, heads for a local ML shop and says, "I want a **** load of 4500s"..........Shore thing mate, heard you were commin so I stashed a few out the back for ya, cost ya 10 grand a piece..........No worries white man, I'll take em, thanks, I'll be of now...........Hang on mate you'l need some big coils for those detectas, these big alipticals are the ducks guts...........WhadoIwant them4?........... Well if ya dun find any gold ya can always use em as a shovel in tha missus garden............ Sound good enuf 2 me white man I'll take a few............ Cost ya 8grand a piece mate.......... No worries I got buckets o money.

Gets a Jumbo back to Africa and trudges back to his mud hut in the bush with his **** load of detectas and says to his missus......... Hey woman! I is goin gold huntin, be back in a day or two...........No worris luv, bring back a elephant leg for tea.

Trudges two days out into the desert, fires up the 4500, does a couple of swings, gets a good signal, reaches for the pick,.... ****! says he, I forgot me bloody umgardi me buggerdugger, (short for digger??)... aah well I'll jus use this 9grand coil as me digger.

N here I am livin on 16 grand a year and flat out findin 10 bucks for a garden fork

Please tell me they dont use the 15x12 coil to dig with thats a joke right? after about one week of being used as a shovel it would break then what are they going to do, someone should point out to them if they buy the round one it doubles as a frizbe, anyway i wonder how many 4500's are getting damaged over there from miss use,

And another thing all these gpx 4500's that have gone to sudan i think one day they will be popping up on ebay at bargain prices.

Adrian, you sure hate Minelab. Why don't you get yourself a nice 'Whites' detector or a Garrett Infinitude? I heard that people sometimes find gold with those too.

/Gollstar, I heard a singular story that someone over in the Sudan was using his 11" coil to dig with. But with their disdain for the Double-Ds and the fact that most of the gold there is in fairly loose soil, it really wouldn't surprise me if it were true.

Cheers,

M

M,
Ya flippin great turkey, I don't hate Minelab, I have two of their machines (two of my best detectas) and an Infinium and four White's, a Tesoro LST and several others.

I have even written very favourable field tests for AGG&T on a couple of minelab detectors and the WOT coil. and I wouldn't say no if you want to chuck a 4500 my way or a 4000, 3500, 2200, 2100. (free of course). I sometimes like to stir the pot a bit and see what floats to the surface.

As for my Infinium, It works great and I will not be parting with it in the foreseeable future. I did a two part field test on this machine and called it as I found it.

Adrian SS

Gday


Just wanted to add that the fleabag at the centre of this drama has been given a severe spanking and many of his options are now closed.

Apparently the same tactic was used on several sellers and they have lost sales and money due to him so this has instigated a flow on of complaints to ebay, as far as I know they have not done anything to him and are still looking at it, but meanwhile the word has been put around and he has been blocked from bidding by lots of buyers, and suppliers have also been made aware as well, he picked on the wrong person thats for sure.

The thing that utterly amazes me is that this bloke tried to blackmail someone, they reply to him angrily and call him an a-----e, and then he cracks the shits and tells them that they are rude and use street words on him in return???? ( by the way he is of middle eastern stock)

Maybe thats the way they do business where he comes from, but I would have liked to have seen the reaction by the seller if the bloke had been face to face with him when he said it, that would have been lesson 1 for him in doing business here in Australia.


cheers

stayyerAU

if you have a commander to sell on ebay, mail me and ill send you the name of the gent to block out, phill