ZED Warm up issue (Previously: Why not in the manual???)

Hi all, I have been sitting back and reading this thread.


All we know with our machine is, that after a certain amount of time. I don't know 10 minutes maybe more, maybe less  ( we didn't time it )
Our machine seemed to run smoother.


Once I can get this machine from Mike 
I would say to Mike,  " Geez this is running nice and quiet, and smooth as" 
Now I am guessing that this machine may be processing the ground to it's optimal settings, in the first 10 to 20 minutes    I may be wrong.......But we were told this.


But gee whizz, if that's what this machine is doing we can still use it before this time, the performance is still there,
 as soon as it's turned on, off Mike goes.
He doesn't complain about it being noisy or erratic, he says it's running just like he likes it. 
He can hear all the little iffy ground sounds.


Why it's not mentioned in the manual  Is Anyone's guess.


I think everyone is getting all upset over this detector for naught!
Yes it's a lot of money to outlay and you want to make sure it's a good detector for the money.
Why not sit on the fence and wait for more reports to come in.

Remember all the crap about the SDC2300. 
And I don't know about all of you that have one...but I am having an absolute ball with my sdc2300.

Hey Goldhound
 can't wait till you can get back out there and give everyone your honest report on the GPZ7000

Thanks Jen for your thoughts, it's a few more pieces in the puzzle.

I've not long read Mike's post on the Zed Mission thread, where he explains what Andrew from Coiltek Gold Centre said about using the quick track too often. (That post of his should be a sticky it's so valuable)

The quick track procedure may reset the averaging process which has taken 10-20 minutes to reach maximum accuracy and smoothness. Could explain why some test bed results are mediocre, while some in field results are outstanding.

I sure hope JP does a video to share what he's discovered. I've not seen him say anywhere yah or nah, maybe there's more to be made out of using the Zed himself than there is telling others how too!

Cheers.

Hi Alchemist

I think there may be more coming out about this machine as the dealers learn to use them as well.
It's not fair that we are kind of left in the dark.
But with some of the negative posts, the testers are staying away, which is a pity. 

Mike isn't here right now.. 
Maybe one of the other Moderators may make it a sticky. 
Or cut and paste the important part out, out put it under the GPZ7000 topic 

Hi all I emailed Minelab Tech support and got this back from them.
The reply from Minelab below is un edited and pasted as is.


I think there may have been some confusion about how the GPZ7000, and in particular Ground balance on this machine, is actually operating. At the time of start-up it is recommended to perform a quick-track. The ground balancing has a number of separate components at play within the GPZ7000 machine. Ground readings are recorded and averaged as you detect to improve accuracy as you progress along the ground. However I believe this has been interpreted as the unit requiring a long period to actually balance. This is not the case. Ground Balancing within the GPZ7000 is quite complex, however once the initial quick-track is performed you are ready to begin detecting. Best Regards,

So what happens as you move about and the ground changes, does it take another 20 mins till it sets itself right for that bit of ground and so on? Does that mean you could be going over ground that has changed and you don't realise that you haven't been detecting it optimally?
That's a can of worms if its true!
And what do you do when you know the balance is out a bit, the tracking isn't keeping up? Not hit the quick track and wait. Iv had numerous occasions where this has been the case and there has been noise from not quite right balance, false signals. It hasn't been that iv been going too fast, its just been from the highly variable conditions I was in, you could tell it needed a reminder or rebalance.
In mediocre ground its not a real problem but in the highly variable it can be.

Ok, posted that before I read the one by Yellowfin. If that's the case from Minelabs mouth then there aint no problem with me hitting the track. Thought it all sounded weird.

Jen58 wrote:But with some of the negative posts, the testers are staying away, which is a pity. 

Yes Jen there it much conjecture with 7000 , to be fair to the testers they could be under instructions or don't feel they have the answers to the many questions .

One thing is for sure ' ML could have made this realise so much smoother by appointing some of their experts to answer the potential customers quires on this forum .


Cheers
Jack .

Jack outwest wrote:

Jen58 wrote:But with some of the negative posts, the testers are staying away, which is a pity. 

Yes Jen there it much conjecture with 7000 , to be fair to the testers they could be under instructions or don't feel they have the answers to the many questions .

One thing is for sure ' ML could have made this realise so much smoother by appointing some of their experts to answer the potential customers quires on this forum .


Cheers
Jack .

To be fair mate,
I emailed Minelab Tech support today around 2PM, with the warm up question, and got a reply back at 6 PM
I've never had an issue with their tech support, they always seem quite happy to answer tech questions from customers.

Jack outwest wrote:

Jen58 wrote:But with some of the negative posts, the testers are staying away, which is a pity. 

Yes Jen there it much conjecture with 7000 , to be fair to the testers they could be under instructions or don't feel they have the answers to the many questions .

One thing is for sure ' ML could have made this realise so much smoother by appointing some of their experts to answer the potential customers quires on this forum .


Cheers
Jack .

Your are so right there Jack..  
They may have been told to be quiet. Why? Is anyone's guess.
They may use the too hard a questions from the members as negative,  Or like you say they don't know the answers to the questions.
 and just say " I am out of here" again anyone's guess
And I totally agree ML/codan have done it all wrong! Why?   
Anyone wanna take a guess?  cause be buggered if I know 
       
The only thing I can think of is that maybe they all knew what was going to happen, like... some like it, some hate it, some wanted their money back, some re-sold them within two days of owning this machine
It's either too damn heavy, too pricey. Don't have the answers .
Maybe they.. The testers didn't want to get into that argument.
Again I don't know 

Well said Jen !  

jack .

I've been quiet for a bit but am very surprised that you mob can't work out why all those that have been testing these units won't respond??!
Honestly, every person that has tried to give any constructive thoughts on this machine has been shot down and ridiculed by the usual mob of 'long time members' that either have not used one or have no money to buy one but like to pick holes in everything that is posted.

It's quite simple, if you haven't found enough gold to pay for one then you don't need it.
If it's too heavy then stop typing on the internet and start swinging a bloody coil for once and you'd be able to handle the weight no worries.
If you have never used one then please stop enlightening all of us with your vast knowledge of nothing.

Now I'll sit back and let all the ridicule begin from the usual bunch of broke ass keyboard prospectors and laugh at your inability to find gold.

Goldgeo wrote:I've been quiet for a bit but am very surprised that you mob can't work out why all those that have been testing these units won't respond??!  
Honestly, every person that has tried to give any constructive thoughts on this machine has been shot down and ridiculed by the usual mob of 'long time members' that either have not used one or have no money to buy one but like to pick holes in everything that is posted.

It's quite simple, if you haven't found enough gold to pay for one then you don't need it.
If it's too heavy then stop typing on the internet and start swinging a bloody coil for once and you'd be able to handle the weight no worries.
If you have never used one then please stop enlightening all of us with your vast knowledge of nothing.

Now I'll sit back and let all the ridicule begin from the usual bunch of broke ass keyboard prospectors and laugh at your inability to find gold.  

Trent ' hullo mate  

They said it would open up the gold fields again & go up to 40% deeper then all before ( most who read that claim think of BIG deeper solid nuggets )

Your a pro ' how do you find it on the lease ?

Jack .

Goldgeo that was so well put i had to post a congratz!!  
I bought a 7000 with gold I found with my 5000 Im not complaining.
Its heavier to swing then the gpx but it runs so much quieter and the controls and menu make for easier adjustment of settings.
I have found gold with it and has got me excited about getting back out into the goldfields again.
As they say you cant please everyone.

I have not been told by Minelab to remain quiet, nor has Chris, nor have any other the testers as far as I know. JP I believe has just had it with the lot of you. Chris is just very busy and rarely has time to post here. Nenad appears to prefer to post elsewhere. I am posting elsewhere. We are not silent.

I am a life long Alaskan raised and taught self reliance. When I am curious about a detector I get one and I use it. I do seek out and appreciate helpful information posted on the Internet by anyone. I simply thank people for it, and never question the motives of those sharing information for free. I am smart enough to sort the good from bad.

I cannot stand whiners and negative people. They are useless and not welcome in my camp. All the sniveling about the cost of the machine and being unable to afford getting one unless spoon fed anything and everything. The need for explanations and promises. Pathetic.

You cannot understand "up to 40%"? What rock have you been living under in this modern age of marketing?  "Up to" means just once, someplace, not everywhere all the time. I have seen over 100% improvements, so get over it. Oh, but I am a tester, can't believe me! Perhaps I should video it, prove it? If you doubt my word, go f*******e yourself.

Surely some of you know how to run a GPX in fixed ground balance? That means it is balanced for the exact location where it was balanced. The moment you move away from that location, it is no longer in perfect balance. Where is all the worry, the hand wringing, the concerns over that? The fact you balance the GPZ and then it seeks to improve on and keep that balance accurate as you move on, you can't understand that? Then turn off the ground tracking if that makes you happier.

The GPZ is an improvement over the existing technology in my opinion. If you chose not to believe that, I do not care. I could care less if anyone buys one. Do me a favor and don't. Worried, can't afford it, scared, need more proof, convinced it is all a scam... Do not buy one.

And do not start with the "oh surely you understand Steve, it it just so much money, we want, we need, we DEMAND proof". No, I do not understand. I am an honest adult used to dealing with honest adults. I do not tolerate people who question my integrity, and I do not have time to deal with people who cannot understand or accept simple answers. This forum coddles and supports rude people and fools, and for that reason I choose not to participate here.

The silence part has been me just trying to hold my tongue because this post goes against how I was raised. If I have nothing good to say I am to say nothing. I have tried, oh how I have tried, but this latest round of speculation that we have been gagged just begged for a response. And just for once, I am going to speak my mind clearly. There are people here who make me feel like I have stepped in something while in my yard, and need to scrape it from the bottom of my boot. My life is better off without them in it. Is that clear enough for you?

Good day.

Guys please remember that Steve has done it all , this guy has my respect and deserves his say  !  

Jack .

ruffles wrote:

ruffles it appears to only affect Auto tracking.
Cheers

Goldgeo wrote:I've been quiet for a bit but am very surprised that you mob can't work out why all those that have been testing these units won't respond??!  
Honestly, every person that has tried to give any constructive thoughts on this machine has been shot down and ridiculed by the usual mob of 'long time members' that either have not used one or have no money to buy one but like to pick holes in everything that is posted.

It's quite simple, if you haven't found enough gold to pay for one then you don't need it.
If it's too heavy then stop typing on the internet and start swinging a bloody coil for once and you'd be able to handle the weight no worries.
If you have never used one then please stop enlightening all of us with your vast knowledge of nothing.

Now I'll sit back and let all the ridicule begin from the usual bunch of broke ass keyboard prospectors and laugh at your inability to find gold.  

Excuse me Goldgeo, please point out to me where I have shot anyone down or ridiculed anyone.
Where on this thread have I said "it's too heavy....too expensive" ?

There is a possible issue to be aware of to get the most from this machine that I wish to investigate.

Your post is off topic, inflammatory and totally unhelpful. If you were a real operator you would be interested about how to get the most from your 7000. I wonder what is your true agenda is (don't answer please that's rhetoric only)

I have found that it's not the so called windgers that are the problem, it is those coming on and complaining about the windgers, filling the thread with superfluous posts with comments like "the usual bunch of broke ass keyboard prospectors and laugh at your inability to find gold. "

You knew full well your post was confrontational making this comment" Now I'll sit back and let all the ridicule begin" You're a filthy muck stirrer, go and sturr your smarmy muck elsewhere please and not on my thread.

I think that Mike's post has valuable information pertinent to this topic so I'm posting it here for clarity.

Mike54 wrote:
I was told today by a very reliable person about ground balancing the GPZ7000.  They said while operating with it in the auto mode to try and not to over use the quick track button, as this will upset the processor in the unit.  If this happens you will have to do a full reset of the machine and start from scratch again. What he said was the machine analyses the ground as you are swinging the machine in that particular area and when you start using the quick track button too much the machine will start trying to reanalyse itself and become mixed up in its processing. This is all pretty high tech stuff for me, but I do understand where he was coming from. Apparently when this starts to happen when you do over use the quick track button in this situation he said the machine could possibly ground balance out a weak target signal. So some food for thought for all the GPZ7000 users.  

I like to thank Andrew from Coiltek Gold Centre Maryborough for this very important information that he has passed to me.  

I hope this helps everyone out there that has taken this on board.

Cheers  All   Mike.  

I think this relates directly to what JP originally wrote (now deleted) that the machine needs rebooting if it becomes unstable, (processor upset) So interpolating thus far, that instabilty comes about by ground balanceing too often within the 10 to 20 minute time frame. So it's not a warm up with repect to heat, but ground data accumulation.
Perhaps in ground that is not highly variable and you're digging lots of targets and engaging the quick track a lot it might be best to stay in manual tracking?

Certainly best to forget all we know about the GPX and start from a completely clean slate.

Cheers

yellowfin wrote:Hi all I emailed Minelab Tech support and got this back from them.
The reply from Minelab below is un edited and pasted as is.
=

Thanks yellowfin for doing that, I didn't realise you could. Is the e-mail address widely available?

Cheers

Sorry Steve you feel I'm just a piece of sh!t, but I have spent a quarter of our yearly household income on this machine, and I'll be damned if I'll sit back and watch if I percieve there's an issue with it!

Interesting mine did the same thing for the first few trips out , went out for a couple of hours yesterday & it is running so much better

Alchemist wrote:ruffles it appears to only affect Auto tracking.

Hi Alchemist thanks for that
My question was "Does this occur in tracking or only in auto"

I think we should be greatful that this was pointed out by JP
otherwise a lot of time may have been wasted
It would seem that its only a matter of understanding the correct
operation of this function

ruffles wrote:

Alchemist wrote:ruffles it appears to only affect Auto tracking.

Hi Alchemist thanks for that
My question was "Does this occur in tracking or only in auto"

I think we should be greatful that this was pointed out by JP
otherwise a lot of time may have been wasted
It would seem that its only a matter of understanding the correct
operation of this function

Yeah, exactly ruffles, I absolutely have the utmost respect for JP and appreciate his opinions.

What got up my nose is the manner in which this IMPORTANT information is not offically published by Minelab.

OK it's maybe it's not in the manual because, it's an obscure phenomenon, maybe only appearing in certain conditions or perhaps it only became evident late on in the development process, but what now ???????

Cheers

Reminds me of the Infinium manual.
How to fit batteries.
How to switch on.
How to GB and Disc & Rev Disc. That was it.

Nothing about the effect of Iron minerals on the signal.
Nothing about how the tones can reverse depending on the size of the gold detected and the iron mineralisation.
Nothing about the time it can take to actually GB.
Nothing about the cantankerous EMI adjust system.
Nothing about how to ID a steel bottle cap from a coin or large ring in beach sand.
Nothing about how to GB the machine in saltwater or about the effects of wave action on the signals and threshold stability.
Nothing about how high threshold can sharpen up weak signals.
All of this and quite a bit more you had to figure out for yourself.
I have had my Finny for a while now and it is still teaching me things.

Even after all things are taken into account and whether you are using an golden oldie or the latest State Of the Art metal detector, the only sure way to know that you are not leaving a good target in the ground is to dig it out and eyeball it.

So it looks like the GPZ7000 operators are going to have to learn the detectors little foibles for themselves.

Wow Adrian that's one hell of a learning curve you've been on, I guess it all helps to keep the mind sharp, and keep away the cobwebs  

Hi Steve
Sorry if I am the cause of all this SH!T..
But I am truly sorry.

I have read somewhere else that a certain tester wrote that it is easier not to post.
Fair enough. I don't blame him one bit, 
but when he puts down that he is still restricted in what he can say. 
after the release date, makes people think why?

There are no secrets in the internet world. Best not to be putting anything down, if you don't want people knowing.

I do believe there are to many here, whinging about the price, and the weight. 
It mainly seems to be the trolls to me. If I was a mod I would cut a few damn heads off!! 
Maybe just as well I am not a mod hey?  Mine might be the first to roll 

Then I can understand for the ones that do want to buy this machine, 
they need to know if it's a good machine or not.
They have a curiosity, and questions.
If we think back to all the minelab detectors, was there ever a bad machine?

When certain posters put doubts in peoples minds, well then it becomes harder to know if this machine is good or not!
I hope all members take no notice of new posters who just post the negative crap! Specially if they hardly ever come onto this forum,  even if they have been a long time members, means diddly squat!  Do they show their finds, or talk about their finds, NO! 
They just bagged the minelab detectors..

I feel for those of you who can't afford one. And would truly like one.. 

For those that want a machine to pay itself off in the gold, within the first few weeks of owning one.
think again!
don't go thinking it's going to reap the rewards straight away, as It's still hard work finding the gold.

We don't buy the detectors with the thought in our minds to get our money back, we buy them because we love this hobby..
 If we are lucky enough one day to walk over a whopper, well wouldn't that be bloody nice.
In the meantime we are happy with any size gold.

 If you think it's too heavy, go to your local dealer and swing around the shop for a while, because just picking it up for a few minutes it doesn't feel so bad, you really have to swing it around for a good ten minutes or more.
 If you put the harness on, that's supplied with it, it works a treat.
It's a well balanced machine.

I think It's a damn fantastic machine. 
I said to Mike I wouldn't mind one, his reply was, don't think you could swing it for long, even with the harness on.. And you know what. His right! 

My son after using it since day one, has really come to like it now, only last night he said to me, he has finally worked out how to best run his machine, he also said it depends on the ground type He is in, to how he has it set,  he came back with 18 grams of gold last night, he was out for over 14 hours yesterday, and knowing my son, he would have put in a good 8 to 10 hours swinging.
he says when he picks up the gpx5000 now. It feels like a toy. 

So how long did it take him to become one with his new blue beast, a good two solid weeks of using it, is my guess.

Remember where I said he wasn't happy with his machine, I told him to give it a chance and keep at it.
Now he is finding gold each time he goes out with it.
The biggest was just over 15 grams.  Another happy customer. Took a while but! 
Also remember where he thought his machine was different to Mikes machine, yes it was! Only because their hearing is different, so each machine is set differently. 
We set them the up the same, same setting.. They sound and work the same! Nothing wrong with either machine
Only thing wrong is the old boy is partly deaf  

Anyway again Steve I am sorry. 
Hope it will all settle down soon..
I think a lot of us are sick of all the sh!t being thrown around about this machine.

Goldgeo wrote:I've been quiet for a bit but am very surprised that you mob can't work out why all those that have been testing these units won't respond??!  
Honestly, every person that has tried to give any constructive thoughts on this machine has been shot down and ridiculed by the usual mob of 'long time members' that either have not used one or have no money to buy one but like to pick holes in everything that is posted.

You're not the only one who's annoyed by certain 'old timers' on this forum. There's no end to their bitching and whining. It's no wonder that JP has pissed off. I don't blame him one iota.

It's also obvious that none of the whingers have any understanding of what's involved in operating a global corporation. They wouldn't be asking such dumb questions if they had. Anyway, it's probably a bit of a catch-22. Because they ask dumb questions they don't get the opportunity to gain that understanding.

In any case this 'forum' is more like drunken pub gathering. Just check out a few other forums and you'll see what I mean.

Come on guys, have a go at me. Prove me right!

I'm sorry once again Jen, for drawing you into this, I'm the one at fault here I started this thread, I'm the piece of sh!t he refers to, I should've just kept my bloody trap shut, and buried my head in the sand and got over it like all good little boys do.

geofflee wrote:

Goldgeo wrote:I've been quiet for a bit but am very surprised that you mob can't work out why all those that have been testing these units won't respond??!  
Honestly, every person that has tried to give any constructive thoughts on this machine has been shot down and ridiculed by the usual mob of 'long time members' that either have not used one or have no money to buy one but like to pick holes in everything that is posted.

You're not the only one who's annoyed by certain 'old timers' on this forum. There's no end to their bitching and whining. It's no wonder that JP has pissed off. I don't blame him one iota.

It's also obvious that none of the whingers have any understanding of what's involved in operating a global corporation. They wouldn't be asking such dumb questions if they had. Anyway, it's probably a bit of a catch-22. Because they ask dumb questions they don't get the opportunity to gain that understanding.

In any case this 'forum' is more like drunken pub gathering. Just check out a few other forums and you'll see what I mean.  

Come on guys, have a go at me. Prove me right!

Wrong time of the month is it son?

alchemist wrote:

yellowfin wrote:Hi all I emailed Minelab Tech support and got this back from them.
The reply from Minelab below is un edited and pasted as is.
=

Thanks yellowfin for doing that, I didn't realise you could. Is the e-mail address widely available?

Cheers

If you have questions you can email Tech support the email address is widely available
service@minelab.com.au