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Post  Pennyweight on Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:45 pm

Hi all,
alluvium & co gave the unit a good test and found that overall depth on larger targets
was no better than all the other units it was tested against. Where it shone was on small targets. I found numerous small bits of gold with it on flogged areas....stick to a small coil (I used 12E NF mono's and 11" ML mono) too. Also a good idea to keep to moderately mineralised areas as with the extra sensitivity, comes extra noise. If its hot, you'll certainly hear it! My first test spot was damned hot and although we got a lot of small gold, we also found a lot of hot spots & hotrocks too!

The only ?? about alluvium's testing was that it developed an audio fault. It played up once while I was using it also. PLUS, it didn't like large DD coils when the MCU clockspeed mod was engaged. It couldn't fully ground balance. All other coils were fine.
I will take a look at other mods soon and post my initial impressions.

FJ, if ever I need a hand, I will PM you for sure! JT is usually reliable but you never know! Cheers, Dwt
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Post  Guest on Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:02 pm

hi pwt... I know the forum the results were posted on are pretty touchy regarding copywrite, so if you could approach the mod and get approval to copy and paste the results here so we could all see it.

If he wont allow it just copy and paste it in different coloured ink and replace every "and" with "rumplestiltskin" to make it a tad different and bypass the copywrite Very Happy

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Post  russcoit on Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:12 pm

DWT so how was it did it reach you expectations so do I keep my hand in my pocket and wait or do I spend my hard earned on an advanced coil and fuel did alluvium say if my 16" DD XP NUGGET Finder came up ok.Anyway hope all is well .Cheers Dave What a Face
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Post  MS on Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:38 pm

Hi All
I got my modded detector back today ML GP3500 and will get out over the weekend to test it out. I will work over the same area where I only found a 0.2 gram piece of gold amongst 42 junk targets but have cleaned out all that I could hear. This will not be much of a test but will be interesting to me to see if any more targets are there.
I will also put some test pieces down and check for depth and signal strength.
SA is not a great place to detect so I don’t expect to find anything but as work slows down a bit I will try to head off to Wedderburn in the next month to give it a run over ground so hot I had a lot of trouble last time I was there.
Mark
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Post  adrian addonas on Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:00 pm

Shocked Shocked Second go ...jees I hate it when this forum locks .. does it happen to anyone else?
No no no dwt . This is why as Tuna suggests we need Alluviums report shown here so those that are not members can read the facts .
Where does he say the modded 3500 SHONE on small gold . your words not his . Truth is there was no upside . In no way did the modded 3500 perform any better than the 3000 controll machine and as far as outperforming the 4500 well THATS a joke.You say you had a faulty audio Alluvium did not. Im not trying to bury anyone here but stay with the facts as presented and cut the spin AO

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Post  russcoit on Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:35 pm

Gday all I say bring that modded 3500 to the test weekend and let everyone have ago Alluviam to me is the real real deal good bloke straight up no sh#t bloke Im wondering if my 16"xp NF came up to specs I say to DWT bring that modded 3500 to the test and if it goes well i will offer my 3000 to Isi to do the mod for free or pay and have it tested by old Tony mills who knows my machine pre mod to test or anyone Im not shiting on the mod but seriously fuel coils time is worth money Ill buy it.Cheers Dave
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Post  Ismael on Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:19 am

russcoit wrote:Gday all I say bring that modded 3500 to the test weekend and let everyone have ago Alluviam to me is the real real deal good bloke straight up no sh#t bloke Im wondering if my 16"xp NF came up to specs I say to DWT bring that modded 3500 to the test and if it goes well i will offer my 3000 to Isi to do the mod for free or pay and have it tested by old Tony mills who knows my machine pre mod to test or anyone Im not shiting on the mod but seriously fuel coils time is worth money Ill buy it.Cheers Dave

I wasn't going to say anything anywhere about the test performed as I believe that this just lets the whole business explode. To be very honest I do believe that alluviums test was fair and what I expected. Even though I had been forewarned of a doomed test result before it was done. I know we have all seen the Videos and such but I never supported that, in fact I was the opposite. So whether you believe me or not I will tell you why I support the results. When I mod a detector I do a few things in the whole process, I first test the detector when it arrives to make sure I haven't been sent a dead detector. After that I set up the test and write down the results. I do this for my own peace of mind. After I mod the detector I repeat the test again to see if the mod improved the detector. My notes on the detector that DWT is using struck me as quiet when I tested both times, quieter than my own which is an earlier serial number. I investigated as much as I could but couldn't see anything to support the difference. After doing a number of mods to GP's I found that even a very noisy GP Extreme was better than that detector. My detector gives a result on a 1.5gm nugget on a very small cross over coil (approx 8-10" before crossing over to the figure8 ), because the coil is so small it's depth capability is limited even with big targets but it was built to get rid of EMI not to be a great coil! Anyway as I was about to say my detector gives a result of 12cm standard and 13.5 modded. The detector that is being tested gave the following result 10cm standard and 12cm modded. All others have been similar to mine and the exception was the last which was a very early model upgraded by ML this gave a result of 12.5 standard and 14cm modded. The extreme results I think would be better but as that was the first I used a salt coil on that then built the Xover coil later. Even on the salt coil with interference that got 11cm standard and 13.5 modded. So I would have rather another detector been the test vehicle in this case but that is all you had. When some had suggested to me that the test or detector had been tampered with I told them I didn't think that was the case as I knew that detector wasn't a typical 3500 as far as I have seen.

That's why I get so pi$$ed off when claims are made that it goes 30% deeper than others or better than a GPX. MY GUARANTEE is ONLY that the detector will perform BETTER than it was in standard. This has been proved even by that test and by my results above. At the moment I do nothing to quieten the detector as we are still testing the best format to achieve that. If you want that now then see Woody as I won't do it until all testing has been done or the owner insists, but if that happened I would not offer any come back except for taking out that mod at your expense. I am using some of these on my own detector and I am quite happy with it. This is just how I am, I like to make sure that the detectors that I mod work well 99% of the time and until I feel that is achieved I don't want to implement those mods yet.

The only thing I took offense to about the post was the comment that "Ismael's mods had de-tuned the detector". All the mods on the detectors can be switched off and completely back to standard. The mods are additions and the switches do not change that. All wires added follow the existing wiring and to that point then Minelab also de-tune if that is the case. Why is it that the detectors always perform and are no noisier at all when tested from standard with the mods turned off? Yes, when mods are activated the detector can become noisier, but considering that 2 of those mods (S2 and Frequency addition) have been used for more than 3 years by the person that came up with these mods and to no detriment to its use I find that comments ridiculous. I have modded 2000 for over 8 years and never had anyone say that they became sub standard after modding. Also with all the detectors and especially with GP's there are a lot still out there that are sub standard.

That's all I will say on this matter as it becomes a case of whether you believe me or not. I have a reputation of my honesty and you only have to see my site to see I do tell you what works and what doesn't and the pro's and con's attached to all mods performed. I never say to people that their detector will be the greatest thing since sliced bread only that whatever detector the mods will improve it. So that's my response take it or leave it I do this as a help to others not for a living I'd much rather be out bush than doing the mods which is where I intend to be in a couple of weeks.
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Post  Guest on Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:40 am

[quote="Ismael"

That's why I get so pi$$ed off when claims are made that it goes 30% deeper than others or better than a GPX. MY GUARANTEE is ONLY that the detector will perform BETTER than it was in standard.




That's all I will say on this matter as it becomes a case of whether you believe me or not. I have a reputation of my honesty and you only have to see my site to see I do tell you what works and what doesn't and the pro's and con's attached to all mods performed. I never say to people that their detector will be the greatest thing since sliced bread only that whatever detector the mods will improve it. So that's my response take it or leave it I do this as a help to others not for a living I'd much rather be out bush than doing the mods which is where I intend to be in a couple of weeks.[/quote]

Your reputation is intact and I don't think ever in doubt, but the reputation of the claimant of 30% deeper is a tad shakey.

Thanks for posting Ismael

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Post  Guest on Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:20 am

Gday

There is one point that I have not seen mentioned in relation to detector mods to date, and that is the fact that some detectors are sub standard from the moment they are sold, or perhaps not sub standard but at the bottom of the performance scale, and other detectors of the same model perform a lot better.

With this in mind what do you suppose happens to these detectors, do they get thrown in the bin? not likely they get on sold and some other poor bunny gets to walk it about the bush waving it about and wondering why he's not getting the gold, its only after you either try something else or you go to a newer model that its apparent, by this time you have sold it to someone else. (get my drift?)

By the same token there are some detectors that are freaks and will out perform any similar model, and you only realise this when you have sold it and moved up to a newer model and you find that it not performing at the same level as the old machine, for instance my gp extreme was an excellent machine and I only ever had issues with the threshold being unstable, after some procrastinating I decided that if I was getting good gold with the extreme then I should do better with a 3000 or 3500, so when I couldnt get a 3000 I ended up with a 3500, I was happy with the idea in the end as logic told me that it was two models up so it should be a lot better.

Well long story short, now I am using the 4500 and I am getting gold on my old flogged patches that I had thought that the extreme had cleaned out, and I had gotten very little from these spots with the 3500?, so I would have to assume that the extreme was in fact a better machine than the 3500?.

Whether mods would have made the extreme any better I dont know, but it may have improved the performance of the 3500, what I have usually done with every machine I have owned is upgraded the battery system to a regulated system, added a good quality booster, good headphones or speaker, and then tried and tested as many coils as I could get my hands on to work out the best combination for that machine, usually ending up with about 4 coils that I use all the time, keep in mind also that "coils aint coils", some will outperform others in different situations, and some can be lemons as well, so trial and error applies here too.

If you believe that the machine you have is sub standard then the best idea is to get your hands on a similar model and try it out, if it seems that it is not performing as well as it should, send it to minelab for a check up, be very concise with your description of the issues you have and what you expect to be done to it, on its return and after further testing you find no improvement in the issues then you may want to consider some mods, but as I mentioned before about the regulated battery system and booster etc would be worth trying first and may be a cheaper option.

As far as considering a mod on your machine, I for one would prefer to have a mod carried out that I could easily set back to standard settings as Ismael suggested, as this gives you the option of testing the mods under differing conditions, and if it gets away from you then you can go back to the standard settings, a bit like the 4500 where you have so many performance options but can quickly go back to the factory presets if you get a bit lost in it all.

cheers

stayyerAU

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Post  alchemist on Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:18 am

stayyerAU wrote:Gday

If you believe that the machine you have is sub standard then the best idea is to get your hands on a similar model and try it out, if it seems that it is not performing as well as it should, send it to minelab for a check up, be very concise with your description of the issues you have and what you expect to be done to it, on its return and after further testing you find no improvement in the issues then you may want to consider some mods, but as I mentioned before about the regulated battery system and booster etc would be worth trying first and may be a cheaper option.

cheers

stayyerAU

G'day,
This is where the planned testing of coil/machine combinations and the results database would be a real help. To be able to roughly compare your machine with another couple and see if you have a lemon, a bitter prospect for some, because some lemons are out there. Still who really wants to put their head in the sand when they could be walking over gold that they should be bagging?

Ismael, testing one detector only, does not provide conclusive results. It's obvious that you can tweak these machines and squeak out more performance. They were made on a production line, being designed and de-rated to accommodate tolerances and produce reliably consistent results. Tightening some of these up on a unit by unit basis is what Woody is taking advantage of. As Steve said, you have not made any wild claims, the egg is on other parties.

Grey.
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Post  Guest on Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:13 pm

Hi Stayyer
Different "Gold Signatures".Thats my thought.Ive seen an sd2200 recognise gold that a gp3000 couldnt and vice versa and a gp4000 find a 2 grammer at a depth a gp3000 missed.Each new generation of the gp series seems to have a percentage increase in its abilty to to handle monos on hotter ground.and with latter models the ability to tweak performance.I have no doubt that the latter models are deadlier on small gold.If that is Minelabs intent they have certainly achieved this.Im lucky in the respect that my better half can run a setup to achieve this.This gives me the opportunity to do what i want to do ,go to deeper ground and work for the more elusive deep larger target.I dont think you can have it all .There would be no gp5000 without an alteration to the platform we currently have,but i think it will have to once again be geared towards what is unrecognisable by the previous.Sure there will be targets that most machines with deep or shallow set up will get so with each new upgrade are we gaining percentage wise on what was previously unrecogniseable and if so what is the bias?
Cheers Dig

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Post  Pennyweight on Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:53 pm

Hi All,
just a few answers here.....I cannot attempt any cross posts or copy & pastes...I value my membership over there for obvious reasons. I have to toe the line with 'Doug' and respect his wishes. Given recent 'troubles', his tolerance of this is low.

Alluvium's testing DID accept the fact that the unit's added sensitivity gave it extra depth on small gold in all but hot ground. When I posted that the 3500M would be a good flysh*t hunter in mildly mineralised ground or less, his comment was "Fair Call".
True, when I say "Shone", that is my own personal spin born from my own experience with this unit. That I can find small gold in flogged areas with it (better than any other unit I have ever tried) almost at will, proves it to me. Believe me or not, I care less. My own personal viewpoint with it, is that in the 3 particular spots I hit with this 3500M, I saw an increase in depth on small targets of around 25-30% max with all 3 mods running. An increase in depth or larger targets was NOT evident from Alluvium's systematic testing procedure.

Dave, I have sent you a PM. Your ex DD NF coil was the only one tested that gave problems. Perhaps the GB fault that they found had nothing to do with the mod? You might have had a odd coil as you originally wondered. Cheers, Dwt
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Post  Kon61gold on Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:27 pm

Just a note
A few replies have been deleted as they referred to the other forum Pennyweight was referring to, and they had nothing to do with the topic

This has been an interesting discussion so lets keep it that way by respecting the contributors and not going off on a tangent about people and other forums

Regards
Jeff
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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:18 pm

Pennyweight wrote:Hi All,
just a few answers here.....I cannot attempt any cross posts or copy & pastes... Cheers, Dwt.......

Fair enough pwt, could you either ask the original author for his permission to post it here or ask him to post it here himself.

cheers!

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Post  MS on Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:01 pm

Took my Modded GP3500 out for a test over the weekend and went to Jupiter Creek and Mt Crawford , the two hottest ground spots I know around SA.
I went through many combinations of settings and used my favourite coiltek DD and med mono coils.
I used the settings recommended by the modder and found the mono to work better but still had a bit of trouble with ground noise and hot rocks. I did get more targets at the area I had cleaned out before, but no gold. It was very clear from the start that the normal settings I used to use, for signal and tone had to be altered and the threshold had to be lowered also.
The unit didn’t like some settings on the DD and was noisier and one setting didn’t work well at all.
I put some targets down and finally found a setting that worked great and was very stable and quiet and a breeze to use.
It took a while to come to this setting and coil combination but all I will say at this point is that it is much better than anything I have got out of this machine before in the above areas tested.
I dug one target that came through like a .22 bullet and was shocked as it was only a small shotgun pellet.
I did find some deep targets also, and they came through loud and clear and was happy with the overall result with this setting and targets found especially in such hammered ground.
I’m not really interested in carrying out any more tests as I’m happy with using this setup and are confident in what I now have.
I’m not part of any testing for anyone but myself and have posted this only to show my experience being someone who went ahead and had his unit modded .
I may have had a unit that was below normal GP3500 standards but I did send it off to ML before I had it modded and now I have it back I’m satisfied with what I had done.

Regards Mark
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Post  adrian addonas on Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:52 am

confused In another place far far away that cannot be mentioned here, the
moderator hath decreed that the report by a loyal and knowledgeable subject
shall in no way be reproduced in full or part in any other place.
[Especially here apparently].This proclamation can be read in full under important notice from the moderator
In that other place, all hail the king

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Post  coreytroy on Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:07 pm

Some info on mods here :Minelab Mods

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Post  stanw on Fri May 08, 2009 2:43 pm

G/day to all Smile
Just like to put my two bobs worth in on to mod or not to.
When the sd 2000 first came out i got one, after having this machine for a number of years with success I had also purhased and used the 2200 in these years i sent the 2000 off to barrie johnson for his upgrade /mods after a friend had his done, and was happy with the outcome. my sd is a very quite machine
and performs as such, I have found gold at depth small and large. before and after mods, but it is still a 2000. i think every model minelab has produced over the years is better than there last.
And every machine that has mods should perform better.as long as the OPERATOR KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING. i have seen people with the threshhold turned up flat out and complain the machine was faulty from a mod, I now have a gp extreme aswell and I am thinking of getting it the mods available, i also use a friends gpx 4000 and think its a great machine to use but i haven't found any gold with it, Do i think it is better than my other machines that i have found gold with of course i do i just haven't waived it across any .
With advances in these fields and new models comes a learning curve and to mod is a personal choice
of trying to enhance your chances of a find with a machine you are famillar with, After all how many coils are out there and each states to be better than the last. these are also'' mods''.
If a company brang out a model that 'only' detected gold at depth and nothing else we would all have one
and that would be there last model surely with no mods required. how much would you pay for that Model.
if i could get that mod on my old sd2000 with auto ground balance sign me up and charge accordingly lol.
cheers to all '' happy detecting'' Very Happy

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Post  coreytroy on Fri May 08, 2009 5:43 pm

My 5 cents on mods is as follows:
Holden make cars that are fit for use on the road and do a good job, as does other makes,
but HSV enhance those Holden cars to get more performance out of them.

I view Minelab Detectors the same, they do a great job as is, but some want a little more out of them and prefer to enhance them instead of update.

Bit like restoring a EH Holden than buying a VZ Commodore i guess.

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Post  Inhere on Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:39 pm

Be VERY careful corytroy,
If you have anything done get Ismael to do it.
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Post  GottalovetheAU on Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:48 pm

I think some have gone a bit overboard on attacking PW. He did say he was guessing a 30% increase, it's not like a concrete statement, can we just agree that he perhaps thought the mod/s were great and he was highly impressed ? I have been forum searching and reading a lot lately because I am tossing up between possibly modding or going for the next model up and of course I'm skeptical.

Ismael, I think you are the real deal, after reading through your posts on many a forum and after talking with woody (only two main people I have come across that mod) who seems to be a downright self promoting, un-courteous to the point of alomost being rude, honestly you seem to be a breathe of fresh air when it comes to explanations, backing your work and as it seems charging a half decent price for the work you do.

I am usually a good judge of character and while Woody claims a lot more can be done than you do, I think I would be more willing to send my machine to you rather than him anyday. I joined his forum a few days back and put up a post about mods VS negating your serviceablity/minelab warranty and he deleted the post and banned my account. I am truly niether here nor there as in I am unbiased and was just looking for some real advice and if there are any cons that come with the pros and whammo he bans me. All the mods on his forum I can almost guarantee are one on the same, him. Let alone the other members on there which are most likely him as well, to me getting banned for asking questions going for AND against the mods tells me he has something to hide or is just plain biased and will only take on members that talk up his work.

Ismael, you on the other hand actually take time to write, reply and explain your work. If anyone is unsure of what I mean, just write to dectormods/woody or Peter I think his name is and just ask some questions, IF you get a reply it will be a one liner sort of "don't bother me, I'm better than you so take it or leave it" type of feel/response. Just try and see.

Bottom line is, if you want to mod, don't believe all the hype, be prepared to get results you may not think were going to be as good as you thought and DON'T pay thousands to modify your detector, just sell and get the next best model if you are in a position to spend that much. Woody charges almost a thousand for mods "1 - 5" which he doesn't care to explain what they are or how much he charges for each and then there's the new beut variable gain mod which he charges 6 or 7 hundred for. Seriously 6 or 7 hundred for 1 mod ?

Still reading through this post so I amy add some more to this in a bit.

Sorry for the rant, I just really wanted to have my 2 cents included.

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Post  maka on Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:48 pm

Ok after scanning that bun fight. I have an extreme. it noisy in hot ground, with a mono, and picks up charcoal and very small hot rocks. It does find very small gold already and would hate to get it back duller..Will modding help? If so how much?
Are the extreme mods proven?
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Post  Guest on Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:58 am

.


Last edited by fencejumper on Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  maka on Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:40 am

Thanks. So i guess if i send my extreme off it wont come back like a 5000? affraid
Might just keep it the way it is for now...
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Post  Goldbait on Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:30 pm

not sure if i have replied to this thread, but don't mod your machine. you'll never get the same resale value for it, and it will be harder to sell.
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