The pro's & con's of camouflage

Gollstar, he was hunting illegally, he did not identify his target and he killed a woman.
Throw the book at him!

Gday


To truly understand what a life is worth to you need to go through the experience of losing someone close through a senseless act of violence or a thoughtless action by someone else.

Why would you knowingly shoot at something when you cant identify it? you are either too trigger happy or too inexperienced, either way you should not be out there with a gun, a person and a deer do not look anything alike unless they are too far away to make a positive identification and in that case you should not shoot at it, particularly if you are aware of other people being in the area you are shooting in.

Even in the military you are trained to identify your target and there are strict rules of engagement in place, firing apon your own people is common in the battlefield and in the heat of the action and confusion, it happens and people are killed, but when you are operating under duress its easy to make mistakes and even easier when they are firing back at you as well, but in a situation where you are shooting in the bush you have all the time in the world so identifying a target before you shoot at it is not that hard.

This shooter is the only one who knows the truth, he knows whether he fired at her thinking that she was a deer or not, he is the one who is going to have to face up to what he has done and take the punishment, a couple of years handed out to someone is not nearly long enough when you have lost someone close to you as all it does is devalue their life, and to you the sentence will be a lot longer, you will have to live with it until the day you die, it wont be over in a miserable two years or so.


stayyerAU

I have been shooting for over 45 yrs,all shooting deaths are a useless and terrible loss of life.
There is ,what is now called "FRIENDLY FIRE" if soldiers can get it wrong,then what chance has normal citizens.
Garry

[quote="gollstar" the manslaughter charchers do seem harsh but for him to kill somone and give ammo to left wing nuff nuffs is pretty bad compassion for him,

but also i think the charges should be downgraded and him serve a sentence of 1-2 years, which i think he would think is fair. [/quote]

Hey Gollstar, i really gotta take issue with you, with this left wing nuff nuff comment of yours. You do not have to be left or right wing to be against guns being available to the general public.
The only people who should have access to guns are the Police, farmers. professional shooters, & gun club members. And automatics & semi-autos should be totally banned. Do we really want loonies like that guy on the palmer waving guns around ? If he comes anyway near me when i am up there next year, then he better book into Cairns Hospital for an extended stay.
Osama.

Idi amin politicians and his government institutions should be the only people allowed to own guns?

Oh, I don't agree with that... "Friendly Fire" is where soldiers in combat mistakenly shoot at allies by mistake. So I don't think it's possible to equate that particular incident of a camper being shot in the mouth with and incident of Friendly Fire in a combat zone. The RULES of hunting and the conditions of owning and using a firearm require the shooter to POSITIVELY identify the target before firing... and to ensure their bullet is unlikely to travel off into the distance where it might hit someone else. Hence no shooting over bodies of water or over hilltops. This idiot saw the woman's headlamp and assumed it was a set of eyes reflecting his spotting light back at him (or so he said in his statement). What if it had been a domestic animal? What if it was someone's dog? It turned out to be a human being. He did not identify the target.

Those kids who shot their mate dead in Victoria the other day were hunting on the goldfields on one of their parents properties but fired in the direction of sound and movement as their friend returned to camp at dusk. They did NOT identify the target at all but fired in the direction of movement.

And the guy shot in the chest at the Sunny Corner goldfield in NSW earlier this year... he was on his bike - with his son just ahead of him. And it was daylight - not night time.

This crap has to stop.

Birdman wrote:Idi amin politicians and his government institutions should be the only people allowed to own guns?

What the f### are you trying to say birdman ??

If we considering banning firearms because they are instrumental in the death of people then we should ban GOLD.
People have been killed for thousands of years to get that lovelly yellow metal.

HMMM thats brought us back to what this forum is ALL about GOLD DETECTING AND PROSPECTING.

good nite gentlemen.

Basically I think there are a couple of lessons here.

Shooters, unless you can positively 250% identify your target and know where your bullet will go if it misses...don't touch the trigger.

Prospectors, forget the cammo, you are sharing the bush with hunters, some of who are clueless, careless and will pop anything that moves. Wear the loudest clothes you can find, hell borrow one of marcos hawaii shirts!

While accidents can and always will happen, both shooters and hunters can do a hell of a lot more to minimize them.

Education is a major key for both firearms safety and also prospectors safety. Saying that, no amount of education will safe gaurd you 100% against an idiot with a .270

Totally agree

MadTuna,

I agree also.

Cammo looks cool, but in an area with hunters
it is dangerous for the reasons you list. I wear cloths with color to them,
not particularly loud but with color and sometimes a brightish hat.

I have not had it happen to me but know of people who have had some
really close calls being out where hunters are also present.

Your point about not pulling the trigger until you are 1000% positive of the target
is advice anyone who uses a gun should have foremost in mind at all times.

All the best,

Flak

I agree with your thought's gollstar re prison term, a grave error of judgment which in real terms has given him a life sentence.

Maybe an opportunity to work with the NZ police on the promotion of gun safety??

Interesting that this is not an isolated incident : Two hunters returning from a hunt after dark were wearing a head lamp when an approaching vehicle that was spotlighting mistook them for deer eyes (spotlight beam reflecting off the lamps appeared to look like two deer eyes). The spotlighter fired two shots - first missing the hunters, second shot hitting one guy in the shoulder - he survived to tell the tale.

And another: The Howard Valley near Nelson Lakes - Young hunter holding his maglite torch whilst knocking in pegs to his tent. Hunters with spotlight approach and shine their light. Thinking they have spotlighted a deer took the shot resulting in death of the hunter.

This from the NZ herald: The father of a Lower Hutt teacher shot dead while on a camping trip says he feels no anger towards her alleged killer.

Hundreds of people turned out yesterday to say goodbye to 25-year-old Rose Ives at a memorial service near Nelson.

Ms Ives was shot dead last Friday while brushing her teeth on a camping holiday near Turangi.

Her father, Malcolm Ives, said her death was an awful, preventable, wasteful accident.

"The young man responsible was unforgivably negligent. Even so, for some reason, there's no room in my heart for anger. My hope for this man is that out of tragedy may come a better, wiser person, one who can positively influence others in the future. I sincerely hope this accident does not destroy him."

I feel pretty sorry for the guy who shot that camper.....
But he didn't follow the most basic hunting rule. Identify Target before shooting.
At the end of the day, he is not a bad guy, and noone will gain anything by giving him a massive jail sentence. As gollstar mentioned, he's already been given a life sentence...........
Sad...

The next time I do something illegal, and either negligently, accidentaly or through sheer stupidity take someones life, could some of you posters please appear as witnesses at my trial and inform the court I'm not a bad guy and how a prison sentance wont gain anything and how sad you all feel for me?
many thanks in advance!

P.s. don't for a minute get the impression I'm an anti gun nut...far from the truth. I have a world ranking, have won state and national titles and represented my country in overseas competition.
Below is a picture of my late wife from a news paper article after winning an Australian title. She was a 3 times ladies world record holder, Australian ladies champion and at one time fastest female in the world with a revolver.
I am not anti gun, I am anti idiot taking someones precious life while involved in an illegal activity.

i have not done a lot of shooting myself , but i have witnessed some people (not all) that when they have a gun in their hands they are completely irresponsible. the same as when a lot (not all) of young people get a car that can go 200 kph they think they are better drivers than jack brabham. i sympathize with this young man that has shot this woman,he is going to pay for a 5 second mistake for the rest of his life, but i think the full force of the law should fall on him. he killed a person. i think a message has to be sent that if you hurt someone when you are shooting ,or street racing or whatever you are doing wrong, this is what is going to happen to you.
dave

Just because you have some credentials tuna (fine credentials i might add) This does not give you the right to force your opinions on others.....let people make up there own minds and judge as they see fit!!

We both know no matter what safety measures are put in place there will always be accidents, that is life......Pike River Coal case in point!!

U308 wrote:Just because you have some credentials tuna (fine credentials i might add) This does not give you the right to force your opinions on others.....let people make up there own minds and judge as they see fit!!

We both know no matter what safety measures are put in place there will always be accidents, that is life......Pike River Coal case in point!!

please show me where I have "forced" my opinion on anyone.
I have done nothing other than give my opinion. Take it or leave it.

*****Gollstar, he was hunting illegally, he did not identify his target and he killed a woman.
Throw the book at him!******

I can understand your frustration.....ten years ago i would possibly have been in agreement with your thoughts....now i see things a little different, for the life of me i can not see this as anything more than a dreadful mistake, the only other conclusion can be "intent" and i would feel very comfortable in saying that you are not thinking this?? feel free to correct me if i am wrong!!

I prefer to leave it.

Be well tuna.

"throw the book at him" was my opinion..incidentally the same opinion shared by I think it was the NZ deer stalkers asccociation

And yes, I agree it was a dreadful mistake...a dreadful mistake that would have been avoided had he 1. not been illegally spotlighting and 2. had he positively identified his target.

Cheers.

And you don' think the NZDA and NSA have hidden agenda"s, like most governing body's it's about them not who they represent imo.

Here is a link to the Fish'n'Hunt forum in NZ a very good read with opinions presented for both sides, this forum thread has been locked now......you will find out why when you read it??

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1287797779/0

Yeah look i was wrong to say left wing nuff nuff i should have said just ignorant nuff nuffs, Howard as chief nuff nuff.

Look all at the end of the day hunting is one of the safest sports/hobbies in Australia it is safer than horse riding so if you relly want to save some lives why dont we ban horse riding and while where at it motor bike riding, oh and cant forget fishing can we, a whole family where washed of the rocks in nsw not long ago it should be banned without delay, hey a young kid died playing footy the other day lets ban that completly, dont forget prospecting,

Its not hard to look at the stats on guns in Australia and if any sain person where to actually read them, then the would agree totaly that australia has not and never has had a gun problem, i read up about the gun laws in Australia, and death by firearms, some years theres 100 people murdererd with a gun a year some times 40, 90% unregisterd/unlicenced, some years 14 to 30 deaths in hunting accidents, but the baulk of gun deaths in Australia are by there own hand somtimes up to 500 and the greens and the 2 members of gun control Australia shamfully lump those figures in when they say x amount of people have died from guns etc


look what ever if reading this now just read the link in the year 2002 there was 40 homicides with a gun and i bet almost all was gang or crime related, so read the link it will take 2 seconds then we can all get a clear idea of what we are talking about.

Even in the paper they state gun fatalities so high etc but you have to look at the causes, it is grossly insenitive to use suicide in an anti gun capacity which drives me nuts because people go oh guns are really that bad i didnt know that so many people die from guns, break it down and a blind man can see. = no problems

http://www.nisu.flinders.edu.au/briefs/firearm_deaths_2005.pdf

What people should direct there energy to is cutting ambulance and hospital waiting times/list thousands die from that a year what about ciggies and grog how many people do they claim a year,

Anyway Australia just does not have a firearms issue in the slightest way, and if it makes you feel safer in the bush where a bright pink sombrero while out there, it would if anything be a good laugh,

Thought i would post the High Court ruling on the Case.......for no other reason than closure!!

A Hamilton hunter who shot and killed a Lower Hutt teacher while spotlighting last Labour weekend has been sentenced to two-and-a-half-years jail for manslaughter today.

Andrew Neville David Mears, 25, was also ordered to pay $10,000 reparation to a charity chosen by the family of the victim.

He was sentenced in the High Court at Rotorua for the manslaughter of Rosemary Ives, a charge that carried the maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

He pleaded guilty to the charge in November, after a less serious charge of recklessly using a firearm was withdrawn.



http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10703585