Bit of luck with the 19" coil today

Sorry to hear that goldchaser, I guess I am going to have to wait for Game Of Thrones now. I guess we all get tricked in this hobby.


Keep your chin up and the ambition alive.

Cheers

Doug

Mate very sorry about the result.
It sure sounded good to me.

cheers all
were gonna do a bit of testing next few days cause 3 days all up on patches weve only detected and 2 tiny tiddlers near the surface is a bit dissapointing early on,we seen immediate results when we both got flat wound coils on gpx's last year (on same ground) but nothing happening with the 19",so its not operator error,if we see what alot of others are saying it can sit in the cupboard as a spare more or less,maybe run it if we get excited,not so excited at the moment.....

PS: gpz 14" we had immediate results also,and about 1000 nuggets have come off this ground.......

goldchaser wrote: cheers all
were gonna do a bit of testing next few days cause 3 days all up on patches weve only detected and 2 tiny tiddlers near the surface is a bit dissapointing early on,we seen immediate results when we both got flat wound coils on gpx's last year (on same ground) but nothing happening with the 19",so its not operator error,if we see what alot of others are saying it can sit in the cupboard as a spare more or less,maybe run it if we get excited,not so excited at the moment.....

Don't wanna teach grandma how to suck eggs, Dave ....but, have you tried the Z19 in "Severe" soil timing over this target. Surely it should quieten it down some.

slimpickens wrote:

goldchaser wrote: cheers all
were gonna do a bit of testing next few days cause 3 days all up on patches weve only detected and 2 tiny tiddlers near the surface is a bit dissapointing early on,we seen immediate results when we both got flat wound coils on gpx's last year (on same ground) but nothing happening with the 19",so its not operator error,if we see what alot of others are saying it can sit in the cupboard as a spare more or less,maybe run it if we get excited,not so excited at the moment.....

Don't wanna teach grandma how to suck eggs, Dave ....but, have you tried the Z19 in "Severe" soil timing over this target. Surely it should quieten it down some.

thought of that after the fact this morn harry,yep should of,gpz wasnt cranked up though and im trying to have faith,we had to really tweak my 45 with nf 25 on to get a repeatable signal,i should of known then,as i say trying to have faith.....

I hate that, bad luck mate!

Inhere wrote:I hate that, bad luck mate!

just ground noise,used to it inhere but not at that level,to me that was what the fark is done there.....

BUGGER!!!!   the search continues, good luck, keep us posted on the 19s progress.

Wayne

Thanks Goldchaser, even though maybe not by your design, I like the concept of videoing the signal and then with some more scratched out.....then make the crowd wait a day.
I too have had problems with signal from the 19 when dipping the coil. The coils size means you need a very wide hole if you want to keep the coil level and deeper towards the "target" signal. Like some big coils the 19 gets swamped by ground noise if you dip the coil deep into deep holes in certain ground.

The sadie coil on the 4500 has been used by me a number of times already with deep digs with the 19 coil.... I have chased a couple of ground noises with the 19 but the sadie showed me I was chasing nothing. However many broad weak signals were very deep targets.
cheers Tributer

True bud ! Sounded the goods to me, well I spose that can be prospecting at times. Shrug it off bro there is always just over the rise or further down the flat. Hope the new coil does find you guys something decent.  Cheers Dave.

BUGGER DAVE, but I guess there's always tomorrow. good luck on the next target sport.

goldchaser wrote:

Inhere wrote:I hate that, bad luck mate!

 just ground noise,used to it inhere but not at that level,to me that was what the fark is done there.....

Sorry about that I was waiting to see a big lump turn up,

But on the other hand this has provided two useful bits of info. 1) about the signal on the calcrete was very wide and 2) you now know that it will signal on minute things/particles at great depth so if there was a nugget down there you would have found it, So although there was no Gold I don't think it was a waste of time and that's a good thing,

Good luck,

John.

I think I would be a tad pissed off if I had spent 13,000 bucks on a latest and greatest detector coil combination that signalled so strongly on a bloody hot rock.

   The Infinium will ID those rocks and/or not respond to them at all.
The scorpion will test individual rocks for possible metal content after being removed from the ground.     These are a couple of detectors handy to have in any kit if for no other reason than  for signal and rock testing and checking purposes. They can be obtained second hand very cheap these days.

Not sure why the Z signalled so well on the calcrete (if that is what it was). Calcrete does not contain a lot of metal whether iron or gold. Although gold can be found in calcrete it has nothing to do with the calcrete. The calcrete formed around the gold .The gold was already there.

adrian ss wrote:I think I would be a tad pissed off if I had spent 13,000 bucks on a latest and greatest detector coil combination that signalled so strongly on a bloody hot rock.

   The Infinium will ID those rocks and/or not respond to them at all.
The scorpion will test individual rocks for possible metal content after being removed from the ground.     These are a couple of detectors handy to have in any kit if for no other reason than  for signal and rock testing and checking purposes. They can be obtained second hand very cheap these days.

Not sure why the Z signalled so well on the calcrete (if that is what it was). Calcrete does not contain a lot of metal whether iron or gold. Although gold can be found in calcrete it has nothing to do with the calcrete. The calcrete formed around the gold .The gold was already there.

The silly part about it is you are right, The TDI SL will ignore them and Basalt and will run Flat out with thunder storms over head without making a Sound,, Even the MXT will ID such rocks and tell you they are hot rocks and will boing over them.

I have to agree with you on that score.

John.

Maybe it is because the Z is not a pure PI and can behave like a VLF at times in hot ground depending on the timings used.

A good ground balancing VLF set a bit positive will hit on the hot rocks but at the same time hit hard on deep nuggs but with a fair bit of ground noise to contend with.  And yes you will hear that  classic vlf auto tune Boing. 
From what I could gleen from Gcs vids, the Z was running pretty smooth and even with the big coil which meant that it was doing a good job of ignoring the ground to a large degree and yet a bit of apparent calcrete messed it up. Just seems a bit strange to me.
      I understand that the tecta was set to Difficult ground. Why then did it find the hot rock???

adrian ss wrote:Maybe it is because the Z is not a pure PI and can behave like a VLF at times in hot ground depending on the timings used.

A good ground balancing VLF set a bit positive will hit on the hot rocks but at the same time hit hard on deep nuggs.
From what I could gleen from Gcs vids, the Z was running pretty smooth and even with the big coil which meant that it was doing a good job of ignoring the ground to a large degree and yet a bit of apparent calcrete messed it up. Just seems a bit strange to me.

yes that really impressed me how velvet smooth that threshold was, There is one thing that bugs me about it's Ground balance is that it needs that ferrite ring because it does not seem to balance under it's own steam, The MXT will ground balance out Magnetic material and Hot Rocks and I tried it one day on some huge magnetic signs and then I placed some very tiny bits of lead on it and sure enough it picked em up,

The Zed balanced out the ground but it I'd that calcrete as a solid Target, where as a VLF will either Boing over them and signal after the coil has left the target Area. So seeing as this is like a Super VLF I would never have believed it would do that if I had not seen it.

John.

I cannot comment about the ferrite ring thingy but I do know that the infinium requires a high level of iron mineralisation before the gb becomes effective. And then it requires a lot of ground balancing to get it to come down to neutral ground conditions. I thought my finny was buggered until I figured that out.

I believe he said it was IRON ENCRUSTED calcrete

adrian ss wrote:I cannot comment about the ferrite ring thingy but I do know that the infinium requires a high level of iron mineralisation before the gb becomes effective. And then it requires a lot of ground balancing to get it to come down to neutral ground conditions. I thought my finny was buggered until I figured that out.

When they first spoke of that ring gizmo I thought they said a Ferrets Ring so I got a picture in my mind of them using  a ferrets backside to ground balance a 10k detector lol

I just tried to post a picture here and now this site has gone and signed me up to some Picture Hosting web site, And to say that I am angry about that does not even scratch the surface. I hate my contact details being given to 3rd party £&~@$

In this case I feel that I must defend the 19"coil.
During my testing I noticed that it had a habit of sounding off stronger over ground noises than the 14". The signals were so convincing that it caught me out for the first few times. However like the 14" if you sweep back and forth over the supposed signal, after checking ground balance nearby, the signal will noticeably deteriorate, but only after many repeated sweeps. This requires patience, as the sweeps required are more than with the 14".
As for the ferrite ring, this was a remedy for a sick machine . Not all 7000's were healthy detectors. Some, like mine were beautiful from the start, never requiring such a 'bandaid', but others suffered from various forms of ill heath, despite denials from ML, leaving poor Bruce with the headache of coming up with some sort of remedy for a sick machine. The reprogramming was a similar exercise.

Reg Wilson wrote:In this case I feel that I must defend the 19"coil.
During my testing I noticed that it had a habit of sounding off stronger over ground noises than the 14". The signals were so convincing that it caught me out for the first few times. However like the 14" if you sweep back and forth over the supposed signal, after checking ground balance nearby, the signal will noticeably deteriorate, but only after many repeated sweeps. This requires patience, as the sweeps required are more than with the 14".
As for the ferrite ring, this was a remedy for a sick machine . Not all 7000's were healthy detectors. Some, like mine were beautiful from the start, never requiring such a 'bandaid', but others suffered from various forms of ill heath, despite denials from ML, leaving poor Bruce with the headache of coming up with some sort of remedy for a sick machine. The reprogramming was a similar exercise.

At over 10k I am very surprized that people excepted it like that, This sell it Now Fix it Later attitude wears pretty thin with me, and shipping some thing like that back to HQ can take weeks before you see it again.

Reg Wilson wrote:In this case I feel that I must defend the 19"coil.
During my testing I noticed that it had a habit of sounding off stronger over ground noises than the 14". The signals were so convincing that it caught me out for the first few times. However like the 14" if you sweep back and forth over the supposed signal, after checking ground balance nearby, the signal will noticeably deteriorate, but only after many repeated sweeps. This requires patience, as the sweeps required are more than with the 14".
As for the ferrite ring, this was a remedy for a sick machine . Not all 7000's were healthy detectors. Some, like mine were beautiful from the start, never requiring such a 'bandaid', but others suffered from various forms of ill heath, despite denials from ML, leaving poor Bruce with the headache of coming up with some sort of remedy for a sick machine. The reprogramming was a similar exercise.

============================================================================================

Hello Reg.

You are spot on there, I noticed Dave was so excited to come up with something decent, he forgot the method of testing for a ground noise.

In the video's he seemed to stand sweeping the response from the one area, Dave did you circle the area sweeping it from all angles.

Most times this gives away a ground noise, as it appears to either shift the central position somewhat, or it will diminish in its response a fair amount. Sometimes the response will only repeat itself from one directional sweep only. But if it seems to stay the same from all angles, you have got to take the top off the surface and repeat the process.

You fellows most likely know all this, but it is good advice for the new comers to the trade.

Cheers ozgold.

Adrian the calcrete in this area is mostly rotten and broken up,lots of it but we havent had to chip a nugget out yet but had some with it still on them but there is small pockets of it still intact to some degree,it seems the detector will purr along nicely then when you find a pocket still intact a bit you get usually a murmer or bit of noise,had it heaps of times,usually just a few scrapes and you hit the top of it and walk away but the gpx doesnt go off like that on it either. Its just a change normally easily sorted.
 Cheers Tributor,i was a bit worried when we put the 14 elite in the hole and it was pretty quiet,bj said geez it must be deep,i said no it should be hearing it with 8-10" off,strength of the signal just had me beleiving it was something way down,especially where it was also,one of the tiny bits i found with it i mucked around on for a few minutes to,boy does it want a slow swing to get the most from it. Hope ya get some deep bits mate,all ears.....

Ridge runner,reg,john etc yeah i agree its a bit like a vlf sometimes it seems,that coil on laterite was pretty good,i tried normal actually 1st up on another spot,hey if im gonna walk around with this weight on gold spots  im gonna run it in normal if possible,normal was a no go,to noisy,diffecult - general was  good,you notice salt more then the 14 as soon as you hit a area also,starts groaning.
 Yeah should have tried to tune that noise out a bit better,did try it at 90 degrees etc john but it just kept repeating in the same area ,slim mentioned severe,prob a good idea to get an idea on some ground noise,at 8" off and firming up like that i think i got caught up in  19" excitment ,if it doesnt do what they claim i need a new dart board out the back anyway.....
john-reg walked away a few times at first,circled the bushes nearby to settle detector down etc but no calcrete within a 4-5 mtrs of that spot made any noise

goldchaser wrote:Ridge runner,reg,john etc yeah i agree its a bit like a vlf sometimes it seems,that coil on laterite was pretty good,i tried normal actually 1st up on another spot,hey if im gonna walk around with this weight on gold spots  im gonna run it in normal if possible,normal was a no go,to noisy,diffecult - general was  good,you notice salt more then the 14 as soon as you hit a area also,starts groaning.
 Yeah should have tried to tune that noise out a bit better,did try it at 90 degrees etc john but it just kept repeating in the same area ,slim mentioned severe,prob a good idea to get an idea on some ground noise,at 8" off and firming up like that i think i got caught up in  19" excitment ,if it doesnt do what they claim i need a new dart board out the back anyway.....
john-reg walked away a few times at first,circled the bushes nearby to settle detector down etc but no calcrete within a 4-5 mtrs of that spot made any noise

Mate, I feel for ya coz that was a Guts effort, Ya know what might be a good idea is get something like a Deus or a Gold Bug and cut it down a bit and use it for a pin pointer because they will ID something like that and have a bit more depth than a normal pin pointer. I think steve H was using / making one with a small 5"-6" coil on it, It might save ya a bit of back ache aye.

John.

Ridge Runner wrote:

goldchaser wrote:Ridge runner,reg,john etc yeah i agree its a bit like a vlf sometimes it seems,that coil on laterite was pretty good,i tried normal actually 1st up on another spot,hey if im gonna walk around with this weight on gold spots  im gonna run it in normal if possible,normal was a no go,to noisy,diffecult - general was  good,you notice salt more then the 14 as soon as you hit a area also,starts groaning.
 Yeah should have tried to tune that noise out a bit better,did try it at 90 degrees etc john but it just kept repeating in the same area ,slim mentioned severe,prob a good idea to get an idea on some ground noise,at 8" off and firming up like that i think i got caught up in  19" excitment ,if it doesnt do what they claim i need a new dart board out the back anyway.....
john-reg walked away a few times at first,circled the bushes nearby to settle detector down etc but no calcrete within a 4-5 mtrs of that spot made any noise

Mate, I feel for ya coz that was a Guts effort, Ya know what might be a good idea is get something like a Deus or a Gold Bug and cut it down a bit and use it for a pin pointer because they will ID something like that and have a bit more depth than a normal pin pointer. I think steve H was using / making one with a small 5"-6" coil on it, It might save ya a bit of back ache aye.

John.

John it wont be used alot right of now until we see ourselves or hear honest reports of a definete advantage for dragging that weight about the bush,i trust the blokes hear that have given warts and all reviews,been quite a few now,not taking any notice of flashy photos with nuggets on coils etc by some,might be back out tomorrow and give it another crack on this ground,take some nuggets and muck around a bit also i think,biggest weve got is 7oz,like to see the difference with the 19 to 45 with 25" coil on that bit....

goldchaser wrote:

Ridge Runner wrote:

goldchaser wrote:Ridge runner,reg,john etc yeah i agree its a bit like a vlf sometimes it seems,that coil on laterite was pretty good,i tried normal actually 1st up on another spot,hey if im gonna walk around with this weight on gold spots  im gonna run it in normal if possible,normal was a no go,to noisy,diffecult - general was  good,you notice salt more then the 14 as soon as you hit a area also,starts groaning.
 Yeah should have tried to tune that noise out a bit better,did try it at 90 degrees etc john but it just kept repeating in the same area ,slim mentioned severe,prob a good idea to get an idea on some ground noise,at 8" off and firming up like that i think i got caught up in  19" excitment ,if it doesnt do what they claim i need a new dart board out the back anyway.....
john-reg walked away a few times at first,circled the bushes nearby to settle detector down etc but no calcrete within a 4-5 mtrs of that spot made any noise

Mate, I feel for ya coz that was a Guts effort, Ya know what might be a good idea is get something like a Deus or a Gold Bug and cut it down a bit and use it for a pin pointer because they will ID something like that and have a bit more depth than a normal pin pointer. I think steve H was using / making one with a small 5"-6" coil on it, It might save ya a bit of back ache aye.

John.

John it wont be used alot right of now until we see ourselves or hear honest reports of a definete advantage for dragging that weight about the bush,i trust the blokes hear that have given warts and all reviews,been quite a few now,not taking any notice of flashy photos with nuggets on coils etc by some,might be back out tomorrow and give it another crack on this ground,take some nuggets and muck around a bit also i think,biggest weve got is 7oz,like to see the difference with the 19 to 45 with 25" coil on that bit....

Yeah mate it will come in good time, because the ZED is like a Super VLF I expect it will react to different coils in the same way a VLF does that's the draw back of coming from a PI to a Hybrid/VLF, But I see there is a new 19" coil coming out soon for the GPX's so that might have a bit of promise too.

If you can find some shallower ground like that where it signals on the ground that might be a good place to get the coil over some nuggets of different sizes, And try to forget about how a PI runs when you are doing your testing, I know there is Gold to be got but that new rig seems to have a mind of it's own and you got to go back to school with this one,

It's a bugga I know, Back when the 3500 came out I come so close to rapping it around a tree coming straight from a VLF Geeze that bugga punished me good,

take care mate.

John.

lenoil wrote:I believe he said it was IRON ENCRUSTED calcrete

Maybe? 
I did not see a lot of iron in that hole and even if there was, a true PI will not signal very strong on iron stone and iron ore mineralisation when the tecta timings are set to respond well to gold.
I guess it has a lot to do with the fact that the Z has a very high and fast pulse rate.

Still. I would like to know what was in the calcrete that set the tecta off??....If it was iron minerals then finding another more appropriate timing would quiet it down and still have found that signal if it was gold ....Maybe?? 

Also the ground balance will adjust quickly over mineralisation faster than if the signal is coming from a metal target.....Sometimes 

Ridge Runner wrote:I just tried to post a picture here and now this site has gone and signed me up to some Picture Hosting web site, And to say that I am angry about that does not even scratch the surface. I hate my contact details being given to 3rd party £&~@$

If your pics are on a camera card then you do not have to sign up to a public site like Photo bucket etc .
You can post direct to the forum from your card via the Host an image icon on the reply page.

Click Host an Image.
Click Select File.
Select your pic and Open.
Select the right hand side blue up arrow box. (one click)
Wait for pic to load...Might take a while if it is a biggun....Maybe resize down to a few hundred M.
Some links will appear. Highlight the centre one then right click it. Select Copy then place the pic where you want it to appear on the text page. A big splurge of crap will appear. Then click review and check that it is all ok and if all is well click send.......If not well then start again.

PS.
Not sure how accurate this is but I reckon you will figure it out.