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Post  Reg Wilson on Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:45 am

I have been contacted by a highly respected and independent tester who has, using a well known embankment test site put the claims of this new coil under scrutiny. Using gold of varying size and density, he has ascertained that the results vary from no advantage to an absolute maximum of 15%. He is still testing, and may or may not publish his results. That is up to him. As his experience in this form of testing is far superior to mine, I have no intention of duplicating this form of testing, but will however share the results of my field tests.
Test site 1
This is a private property south of Wedderburn. First detected by myself with a SD 2000 within days of the release of that model. I have used this site for testing detectors, coils, ear phones, boosters, etc. as it has never been scraped and runs from very shallow surface to quite deep. (well over 6' I suspect.)
It has yielded gold from specks to 2 pieces of 14 ozs. with a total of about 70 ozs.
Before the other day it was last visited by J R Beatty and myself to test Coilteks Elite coil, where James pulled a nice colour with his 5000 Elite combination.
On arrival with the 19'' I proceeded to confidently zig zag the length of the run, there being no need to use the 14'' first as this had already been done previously yielding gold. The length of grass was very low due to heavy grazing, the only obstacle being the occasional sheep turd.
On recovering nothing, I then painstakingly gridded the whole run with a 50% overlap. Nothing.
I shall now throw this open to our usual experts who will undoubtedly explain to me where I went wrong, and then I shall move on to test site 2.
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Post  rc62burke on Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:51 am

Were you hoping to find a 15oz nugget "Twice" in this location???? sorry Reg can't help my sense of humour (it's not directed at you BTW)
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Post  GypsyGoldAu on Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:39 am

Reg Wilson wrote:
I shall now throw this open to our usual experts who will undoubtedly explain to me where I went wrong, and then I shall move on to test site 2.

For me, not enough info. to tell where you went wrong (if at all), and it may just be (due to the expressed 'shallow' ground) that particular area has no more to give, within the detectors limits?...there may still be 5+ Oz of 1/2/3/4/5/gm specks settled on the 'bottom' (~6', your #'s) your just not getting to?

C'mon Reg, stop playing funny buggas .....we know, you know, this stuff.. tongue

I still wouldn't call it done until i pushed it and processed....and even then i'm sure there's still some left behind (it may be suspended in ore and undetectable)...

Cheers
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Post  GypsyGoldAu on Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:46 am

OH...OH...i forgot to ask Reg....when you did your comparisons, did you just do a standard 14" setup, and swap coils?

Or, did you try to wring the max. out of every available setting to find it's limits?

'THIS' can be the varying factor in the 'math' of depth increase many allude to...not saying it's what ML does or doesn't do, just saying, like 'statistics', you can get the answer you want based on the 'methodology' used, not necessarily what is understood to be the 'normal' math when discussing %percentages.

Cheers

*[EDIT]* NVM,... I just re-read and you weren't doing a specified target ID response comparison...nuff said. Wink
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Post  jasong on Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:39 pm

It would be useful if you could include your settings and coils on the X's, and your settings on the Z both with the 14 and 19. Specifically on the X mode, gain, stab, threshold (roughly) and on the Z - ground mode, detecting mode, sensitivity, threshold, and smoothing. Also, for a guy who knows nothing about Australian ground or locations, how hot/mineralized would you classify the ground? Any salt or alkali? Do you sweep the ground or hover? Was the 19" used on the same machine as the 14"? Same or different operator?

Not here to judge, just looking for data.

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Post  slimpickens on Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:18 pm

Reg Wilson wrote:I have been contacted by a highly respected and independent tester who has, using a well known embankment test site put the claims of this new coil under scrutiny. Using gold of varying size and density, he has ascertained that the results vary from no advantage to an absolute maximum of 15%. He is still testing, and may or may not publish his results. That is up to him. As his experience in this form of testing is far superior to mine, I have no intention of duplicating this form of testing, but will however share the results of my field tests.
Test site 1
This is a private property south of Wedderburn. First detected by myself with a SD 2000 within days of the release of that model. I have used this site for testing detectors, coils, ear phones, boosters, etc. as it has never been scraped and runs from very shallow surface to quite deep. (well over 6' I suspect.)
It has yielded gold from specks to 2 pieces of 14 ozs. with a total of about 70 ozs.
Before the other day it was last visited by J R Beatty and myself to test Coilteks Elite coil, where James pulled a nice colour with his 5000 Elite combination.
On arrival with the 19'' I proceeded to confidently zig zag the length of the run, there being no need to use the 14'' first as this had already been done previously yielding gold. The length of grass was very low due to heavy grazing, the only obstacle being the occasional sheep turd.
On recovering nothing, I then painstakingly gridded the whole run with a 50% overlap. Nothing.
I shall now throw this open to our usual experts who will undoubtedly explain to me where I went wrong, and then I shall move on to test site 2.



Hey Reg, at some point in time, don't you expect the gold to run out on your secret patch? This point may have been reached. Sad
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Post  Reg Wilson on Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:28 pm

My wife said to me recently, "Reg, you have all the patience in the world when it comes to chasing gold, but you should stay away from forums". I hate it when she is right, and she usually is.
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Post  Reg Wilson on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:08 pm

Test site 1 is very noisy ground with a fair amount of ironstone. Too hot for normal in both coils. Sensitivity, well up in both. To run with smoothing off required very slow motion. Threshhold way back. Pitch way back. Noise cancelling on in both. Just a touch more volume on large coil.
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Post  jasong on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:32 pm

You don't feel as if the 19" quieted the ground down enough to back off the sensitivity (maybe go to low smoothing too) and switch over to normal then? That's one application I hoped for this coil, because normal even on lower sensitivity gives depth over difficult on a lot of types of gold.

Is ironstone over there like magnetite chunks, basalt, or banded iron formation, or...? For me here it's one of those three things. I really don't understand Aussie conditions but we don't have the coil over here yet and yours is the only post I see talking about test results so I'm trying to make sure I understand the conditions.

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Post  kon61 on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:40 pm

Test results,Test Results Shocked What test results? What was compared to what?  I haven't seen any comparison test results. All I'v heard so far, is a lot of mumbo f*****g jumbo? Shocked Q35

Cheers Kon. Q11
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Post  Reg Wilson on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:48 pm

Perhaps you would like to do your own tests then kon. Good luck.
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Post  kon61 on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:58 pm

I certainly will be doing so over the weekend Reg. My only concern with the new 19 inch Super D coil,is that it does what Minelab has claimed it does(on average) over that of the 14x13 inch GPZ coil.

Cheers Kon. Q11
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Post  titiwhaka on Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:42 pm

kon61 wrote:Test results,Test Results Shocked What test results? What was compared to what?  I haven't seen any comparison test results. All I'v heard so far, is a lot of mumbo f*****g jumbo? Shocked Q35

Cheers Kon. Q11

Thats a bit rude Kon , If Reg says he's put it through its paces and come to the conclusion that it is no good then I and many others believe him over some puppet with JP's hand up its backside .
lol!
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Post  Guest on Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:57 pm

titiwhaka wrote:
kon61 wrote:Test results,Test Results Shocked What test results? What was compared to what?  I haven't seen any comparison test results. All I'v heard so far, is a lot of mumbo f*****g jumbo? Shocked Q35 

Cheers Kon. Q11

Thats a bit rude Kon , If Reg says he's put it through its paces and come to the conclusion that it is no good then I and many others believe him over some puppet with JP's hand up its backside .
lol! 
Hi Titiwhaka.. are you saying that we are all jp's puppets..? ( Oh you cant answer now Embarassed )


For a start.. this coil has only just been released.. so give it time for some differences of opinion's to come on board
I am sure Reg has done and found that the coil is not to his liking.
That's Reg's opinion..
I am sure he doesn't need you to hold his hand.

I think everyone that is actually using one of these coils has every right to voice thier opinion..


And as for you.. you are just trolling!!! Go make trouble somewhere else!


Last edited by Jen58 on Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add more)

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Post  Qld Sandy on Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:13 pm

Reg Wilson wrote:To run with smoothing off required very slow motion.

Lost me. scratch
As Pauline would say "Please explain?"
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Post  Reg Wilson on Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:29 pm

This test site was chosen because it is a reef shedding, and although it was discovered some years back, it was quite rich, mostly specimen, running from shallow hillside to gully, and being on private property, has never been scraped. My best effort here was a 13 oz. slug. I had borrowed a 2200d from Barry Johnson upon its release to test it out, and returned to show Barry the colour. I promptly purchased a new 2200d from Barry, and went on to find much more gold there. This is on the outskirts of Wedderburn, and the ground is relatively mild. It is also one of my favorite test sites, last visited by my prospecting pal from Maldon, Nick Soames, and myself, where we took a couple of small colours in an hour or so, last year using our 7000s
The grass here was a bit longer, so to be fair I could not detect all the way to the gully where the larger gold was, but the hillside was detectable. Pushing that coil through grass more than a few inches deep is both slow and tiring due to its 'filleted' design. It will not slide over grass. Here I was able to run in 'normal' with smoothing off. Following the same procedure as with the previous site, I had almost finished the workable ground when a faint signal produced a colour of roughly a gram at about 6 inches. That was it, for what it was worth. Make of it what you will. One more major site to go , and a couple of small, but once rich spots.
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Post  Reg Wilson on Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:36 pm

As Hawking would say, ''If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand''.
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Post  Qld Sandy on Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:43 pm

Reg Wilson wrote:As Hawking would say, ''If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand''.

Smoothing off is a setting for the GPZ7000 where you can select from Off, Low or High.

Very Slow Motion is a setting on the GPX models along with Slow, Medium and High.

Please explain?
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Post  Guest on Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:53 pm

G'day Reg,

I can not agree more with you on the sliding it through the grass, as I went out to a well known area today with my young bloke and yes it's not a easy coil to use in longish grass. Also it is not very pleasant around a lot of sticks and debris, but it's a very stable and hasn't lost any sensitivity for its size. I didn't find any yellow, but I did find quite a few shot pallets.

Cheers.

Mike.

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Post  Reg Wilson on Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:11 pm

Qld Sandy, I was not referring to a setting but to moving the coil at a slower rate. You know, not quickly, as in the opposite of fast, Pauline.
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Post  Jack outwest on Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:49 pm

Hey Reg ' your an entertaining bugger  Laughing  like the way you say stuff ! keep up the same rhetoric mate .

Appreciate it
jack .
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Post  Reg Wilson on Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:04 am

My third testing site was a bit closer to home, where a brand new GPZ 7000 paid for its self in a matter of days. I had been eyeing this spot off when the Z was first released, and much of the gold could probably been recovered using my trusty GPX, however it presented an opportunity to get used to the new heavier but supposedly superior machine. It took a bit of getting used to the heavier detector, but I have to say that the harness was a great help, and I liked the Wi Fi set up which enabled me to put the machine down when digging holes, and in all there were seventy holes that yielded gold. For this learning exercise I used geo flags to mark each colour, giving me a developing pattern on which to work.
I should explain that this site is once again private property where I had the permission and co operation of the land owner who received a percentage of the yield. The patch was totally virgin, stretching over about a hundred meters, fanning out, and slipping on one side down a gentle slope. It is a 'terrace deposit' off the Nuggetty lead, which shed from the famous, and ridiculously rich Nuggetty Reef. (500 ozs per ton in places).
It was here that I learned by trial and error that the Z had wonderful signal definition, enabling me to recognize ground noises, burnt ground, hot spots, and shotgun pellets. The bottom here is granite, and although mostly very mild, it has some noisy and tricky spots, and here I learned that the factory recommended settings were rubbish. I later took my new friend Cameron here with his SDC 2300, and within an hour or less we both came away with a colour each. Mine was a small specimen, and his little colour was the largest he had found to that date with his SDC. Four colours over an ounce have been detected here.
Returning with the new 19'' coil, I was able to run it 'flat out', as it was beautifully stable and easily sorted out all the assorted nasty spots. The grass was not a problem as it was very low over most of the patch, and I was able to 'face out' the deepest and most hopeful area where the best colours had come from. After the best part of an afternoon on a beautiful day........ nothing.
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Post  Qld Sandy on Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:55 am

Reg Wilson wrote:Qld Sandy, I was not referring to a setting but to moving the coil at a slower rate. You know, not quickly, as in the opposite of fast, Pauline.


OHHH. Thank you Pauline. Maybe you should have said that then. Wink Smile
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Post  alchemist on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:43 am

I see Reg you are quite convinced, and this is no bluff as you have your coil in the buy/sell section.

Please can you tell us what were the largest monos you've put over these sites?

By the way my question about swing speed was genuine, it may have come across sarcastically, but it wasn't aimed at you.
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Post  rc62burke on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:46 am

Qld Sandy wrote:
Reg Wilson wrote:To run with smoothing off required very slow motion.

Lost me.  scratch
As Pauline would say "Please explain?"
I would take this to mean that he required a very slow swing speed!!!!
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Post  Reg Wilson on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:50 am

Alchemist, it's a bit difficult to remember what size coils we put over some of these sites, but the Whela patch was pretty noisy, so my guess is that no bigger than 18". The Wedderburn patch, probably the same, and the Maldon patch has only been done with the 14" Super D, before putting the 19 over it.
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Post  alchemist on Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:23 pm

I feel for you Reg, the messenger of bad news is usually sacrificed.

I feel confident these Engineers take pride in their work, and in all likelihood it can and will be patched when the extent of dysfunction is known.

I wouldn't be surprised if they derated the original design MRD to avoid any stabilty issues like those of the Z release.

But then, I'm just an !ddiot expert so I'm likely dead wrong
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Post  Reg Wilson on Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:50 pm

Now,now, Alchemist, don't be too hard on yourself. It's not your fault you have an active mind. You could very well be right. I wouldn't have a clue about such things, as I am just a prospector, but I have a fair idea as to when someone is 'peeing down my neck, and telling me it's raining', and I don't like having "grass stains on my knees", compliments of Minelab.
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Post  CDave on Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:07 pm

Ray, your “independent tester” sounds a lot like me, and getting the same results! I am not that person, as I have only told the Minelab dealer about the problem (until now). He is doing nothing for me until he gets more reports in..... However, it helps me to know that I am not alone!!

Can you find out if your tester has compared the GPX5000, 11” mono, FG to the GPZ7000, GPZ14, HY, Difficult? I am finding little difference and I suspect that this is the prime reason I am having trouble... Also, I am only getting about 60% of the depth, courageously quoted in Phil Beck's "Treasure Talk".

Being positive, I found the coil was quiet, it found a 0.3g nugget on first outing and Extra Deep noticeably quietened the hot wet ground I was detecting.

A quick serviceability test would help me and many others! Minelab putting numbers to say a simple 5c coin air test... so so simple!

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Post  Reg Wilson on Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:45 pm

CDave, I'm sure my tester friend will be keeping a close eye on these proceedings, and will no doubt contact you if he wishes to do so. Please don't think I am ducking the issue, but I'm sure you will agree that toing and froing has the potential of complicating matters.
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