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A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25

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Post  Guest Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:45 pm

Got that rain today, thanks for that!!

Am looking into options, hard to get technical info that you can rely on and hard to find parts too, used or secondhand. It seems there was a myriad of changes made around the time these were built and it's hard to find out what marries with what. Different countries got different engines etc

The 720 i had was only about 7 years ago, and there still seemed to be stuff around then!!

I might be able to find something thats rusted to crap but the donk is still ok. Have to wait and keep looking, otherwise could be a rebuild or expensive reco engine or a swapout to something else.
From info i can find, a td25/27 will work with the exception of a different bellhousing plus other things (such as some wiring, plumbing etc), so would have to come with bellhousing and would have to be out of 4wd otherwise could have same oil pump location problem.

Anyway, i have learn't a few things and i appreciate all help and advice given here. Will return the favour if given a chance. A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_biggrin

PS: I need a job and will travel!? (had to put that out there, it makes me feel better A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_razz )

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Post  GoldstalkerGPX Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:16 pm

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Post  fastgold Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:46 pm

Ha Ha ,nice sunshine today A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_biggrin . Still suggest that you remove non operating push-rods and check that not bent .Sometimes it takes afew minutes to pump up hydraulic lifters when it has been sitting there for a while which is probably why you thought it was running on three because it waseventually,mark
Have you tried that contact i gave you for that info

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Post  fastgold Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:52 pm

Hey goldstalker thats what you get for being self -employed,mark A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_sad

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Post  GoldstalkerGPX Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:53 pm

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Post  fastgold Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:00 pm

goldstalker,wages and all the privileges of being self -employed,mark

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Post  Guest Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:02 pm

Thanks fastgold for the link, but i found the manual online for free. Covers the series of sd engines.
It is fairly basic but has the essentials needed, it doesn't give you a clear picture of the lifters at all. It does tell you keep the lifters in order when you take them out..... A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_mad like, der!
It shows the lifter on the head blowout diagram sitting underneath the pushrod.... if only it was that easy!!

A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Clipbo10

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Post  Guest Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:09 pm

A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Clipbo12A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Clipbo11

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Post  fastgold Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:50 pm

sorry about not getting back to you earlier but not in adelaide,did you try what i suggested re; checking crook rods and turn over after refitting rockers as unless somebody has trick for these motors you will have to go thru a heap of the removal because once cam is removed the lifters can drop out of recess in block. ie you have camshaft whose lobes run on lifters in recesses above which have smaller holes through to top of block to let pushrods sit in top of lifters. Sometimes they fall out into sump ,sometimes not and may need to tap pushrod to get to drop out as a burr or unworn area exists.This is why you need to know which lifter comes from where as they bed in differently. Normally this is all done with motor out and upside down.Can you get sump off without having to pull out motor. secondly ifthey wont stay in over gum or burr try using grease or if not staying in fold a piece of wire 12' in half then fold ends outwards approx 1/2 in either side to form a spring type clip which springs against side of lifter recess which you will have to pull out as you feed in camshaft,mark

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Post  Guest Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:03 pm

Hey fastgold,

Sounds like you have my motor half stripped down in your head!! A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_lol

Anyway, so I had another fiddle with things this afternoon. Took the rocker gear off again.
Checked all the pushrods for straightness as you wished. I thought they looked ok.... nothing wrong with the pushrods.
Something i did discover or realise, was i probably hadn't made sure all rods were sitting in their homes properly. A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_geek
I had only pulled ot 2 or 3 on the first check, and then i had 3 valves not working....d'ohhh! I am not sure they were working before, but i am preety sure they probably were.

So i had spoken to a mate the other day, and he suggested seeing if i could pump up the lifters. I now know what he meant. In the process of checking the pushrods, i found that some were sticky or had some suction when i went to pull the rod. I assumed i had hydraulic lifters as they had a certain sucky feel about them. So after many hours of fiddlingand turning motor by hand i found that all lifters felt the same except for number 4 valve- the one that had the broken rocker arm!! ah ha!!
So i had a stuffed hydraulic lifter.
I guess thats why the rocker arm snapped. Engine overheated, hydraulic lifter seized open, valve open, piston slap on the valve with the result beaing a broken rocker arm....
I wonder how that valve looks and the piston? hmmmm

So, after some fiddling and a bunch of degreaser and oil down the pushrod holes.... it still didn't work.
Tried grease on the end the pushrod, i could feel it cupping in its seat, but i couldn't get the lifter pumping.
After lots of dicking around, ie degreaser, fiddle, oil, fiddle, degreaser, fiddle, oil, fiddle etc
it still wouldnt pump up. I thought " this is it". " have to pull the donk out for 1 lousy lifter..."

Enter the dragon, i mean the $5 magnetic part picker upperer. Magic, it just fit in the hole!! Only problem was, the telescopic bit wanted to keep closing. Found 1 spare coathanger, old school bare bones wire hanger. Bent it out, cut 3 rods off it, and taped them to the magnetic parts pickerupperer.
Beauty, it stopped it from closing up.
So, i jams it down the hole and sure enough it grabs the lifter, up and down i go, great!! more degreaser fiddle, oil, fiddle, degreaser, fiddle, oil, fiddle- up and down! A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_biggrin
So the result is, the pushrod will now pump the lifter up and down!! I ended up sparying 4 cans of degreaser around!!! I wonder if the valve stem seals will get upset?
Have fitted rocker gear again after draining the oil and changing the oil filter....(yes i know, i should have done that before.... but it wasnt gong to help a seized lifter now was it?!!)
So tomorrow, will put the battery back in (i have to charge it between goes....) and turn the motor over with electricity, (it got a bit hard at 0 degrees with ice on the roof....) and check that all rods/ valves are now opening/ closing.

Fingers crossed. So, as for some trick, $5 magnetic parts pickerupperer with a bit extra. See waht happens next. Stay tuned! A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_razz

Cheers, Ferris

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Post  fastgold Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:57 pm

FERROUS ,sounds like you are finally getting somewhere but, do remember and make sure that it is lifters pumping up as they will slide in recess up and down without pumping up if stuffed.Mind it could also have seized in recess. To make sure let lifter slide down till you feel it touching camshaft gently,then you should be able to push on pushrod,it should move and if you cycle it a few times it will feel like its pumping itself up ,mark

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Post  Guest Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:09 am

hey fastgold, can you tell me the ins and outs of a how the lifter works? are they solid or have a liquid core or what?

cheers.

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Post  fastgold Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:32 am

ff, imagine a small piston upside down in a bore with head of piston sitting oncam lobe. The back or top has a concave piece with a hole in the centre. Oil can flow thru hole in centre and can slide in backof piston up and down but is held by ridge at top of piston. There is usually a spring under holding concave section against rim Oil sits in concave section with the pushrod over hole. when there is no pressure oil fills volume under concave piece then pushrod closes hole when loaded and can only depress a minimal amount ie the amount the oil can compress. Once it pumps up the rest of the movement is by sliding in the recess,does this make sense. By the way we never established whether they are solid lifters or hydraulic,mark

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Post  Guest Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:39 am

fastgold, have sent you a pm!

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Post  Guest Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:31 pm

Ok update, so with a new set of glow plugs $72 (i decided the old ones didn't glow quick enough for the relay) and a new battery $145 (battery i was using was an incorrect smaller lower rated one out of something else as there wasn't one in it to start with)

and.....finally with a bit of ether, the old girl started!! A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_basketball A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_cheers

Was rough, but smoothed out a bit, haven't driven it yet, might try that tomorrow. Stopped engine a few times, and started again no problems.
Not 100% sure the head gasket is ok, or on how the oil pump is going.
It needs a new radiator, the one in it is shot. The cooling fins disintegrate to filings when touched and even the fan on the motor is slowly blowing them all everywhere. Temperature gauge didn't seem to work either.

All lights work except for 1 parker. Didn't check fan, must do that. When the internal light works on a old car, you gotta be happy with that! I take it as a good sign!

So, cheers for help on this one, especially you fastgold. Very good of you to ring me last night and talk my ear off! A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_wink A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_lol
Will let you know how i get on with the remote gold accessing beastie fourby project.

Ferris.

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Post  Guest Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:30 pm

So, the old girls starts up fairly easily, although there appears to be a problem now with the glow plug relay, not exactly sure about that yet, but is easily bypassed and I will no doubt put a seperate switch on the dash for it at a later date.

She drives fine (a little low on power- see below), all gears work, clutch is ok.
I am going to assume she works ok in 4wd....
Brakes work, fan inside doesn't. So all in all, she is worth getting back on the road.

Problems,

  • Inside radiator is some turbulent activity.
  • A lot of air blows out of the oil filler hole when the cap is off.
  • Oil is weeping out of the dipstick past the dipstick.
  • The engine idles smoothly with the radiator cap off, but after putting the cap back on, the engine idle goes rough.
  • The cooling system pressurises very quickly- even when cold.

So the above is telling me the head gasket is shot or the head is cracked or both. (I don't want to think the block is cracked...)
So, project is on hold now till I get the head off and that is going to wait until I get back from overseas (6 weeks).
$200 for a head gasket kit plus other costs like radiator etc- it's all going to wait till I get back!

I am happy with the engine though (sounds nice and sweet and tight), and by all accounts, seems to have only done its 200,000kms it states on the odometer, so in theory, there should be plenty of life left yet.

Cheers!

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Post  fastgold Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:45 pm

ff,definitely head gasket shot as pressure in head space over bores blowing through to pushrod hole which is pressurizing sump (oil coming out of dipstick) and blowing air out of filler cap. Guess what, sounds like that oil and coolant is not going to be worth two crackers as to get turbulence the gasket is shot over to water and is why you are getting turbulence in radiator cap, probably forcing water into sump as well,mark
Lots of bog rolls needed for this one. PS $200 seems a bit rich as only paid about 45 for pajero head gasket

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Post  Guest Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:07 pm

yeah, head gasket itself is about $110. It is a metal one apparently- must be copper with gold trim A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_mad

$200 is for a vrs gasket kit. If the head is coming off, i may as well do the seals and reseat the valves.... depends on what i find once i take it off of course. If the cylinders/ rings look ok, it will get the treatment.

Will check a few prices, but that is from the cheapest place i know... i have been quoted $255 for the kit from elsewhere!

As for the bog rolls, don't forget a Pajero is a Mitsubishi, which i refer to as "it's $hitty" or "it's fishy" A call for help with a diesel navara 86 model sd25  - Page 2 Icon_lol

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Post  fastgold Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:22 pm

Hey ff,its both, cant beat the old cruiser,mark

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Post  nuggertman Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:58 pm

hi m8 .. just try the egr valve ....... in old cars they get block up and force back pressure.. you need to clean it out // hope this helps you // gl all nuggertman
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Post  Guest Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:04 pm

So the latest....update,

So i got busy and cracked the head off today.

Water sitting in top of #2 cylinder.
Back of intake valve visible through port a little rusty looking. Cylinder side of valve also shows rusty water leak marks.
Head gasket looked fine- no traces of any tracking of water to oil- oil to water or anything to a cylinder. Mad
bugger, am thinking it must be a cracked head leaking water into a intake port, and mixing oil/water and letting exhaust gases into crankcase.

Any thoughts fasty?

Cheers.

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Post  fastgold Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:13 pm

sorry i have'nt been able to get back to you sooner but had another virus so word of warning just because you see leafy thing on google, it means jack sh-- and you can still get. FF. suggest you pull valves etc. to do grind later. See if you can see crack as best is get head welded.Good time to clean out holes for 'heaters'.Having mental blank for the proper word.Rub oil and remove surface rust as best as possible to cylinders clean up piston heads when each at tdc and vacuum clean to ensure no rubbish left . Do not wire brush. Does later model head interchange? There is after market head crack goop but have never used and not heard good reports. Sorry ff but no esy answers worst luck , Suggest you wire brush out cr-- to exhaust tunnels and cylinder heads Glue some 400 w&d to some glass and touch up head

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Post  cranky Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:19 pm

G.Day FF,

I've been watching this thread for a while and noted some of the info you are recieving, much of it is likely to be helpful but some could cause you strife in the longer term.
Could I suggest a couple of things that seem to have been overlooked. Now that you have the head off, take it to an engine reconditioner for a quote on what may be needed to sort it out, what is not readily understood is that Alloy heads develop internal stresses as a result of the heating / cooling cycles in operation. When you unbolt it these stresses will usually cause it to bend and or warp and if refitted without correction will never be able to ensure a good gasket sealing and early failure is certain.
Any good engine reconditioner will be able to cost, seperately / collectively, the operations to Crack Test, Resurface, Valve regrinding, Valve guide replacement / resleeving, possibly some aluminium welding to coroded water holes will be necessary before resurfacing. Check also that head bolts are not of the torque to yeild type as these are unable to be reused as they will likely snap before reaching the specified torque levels. Work with the reconditioner and sort out what you could do to reduce the cost like hand grinding the valves although as he would use a form of synchro seating he would be faster and more effective making any saving insignificant.
Don't buy a head gasket as a seperate item will be dearer than buying a Valve regrind set which has all of the gaskets and seals needed for the job.....Do the job properly and the head will stay on for as long as the bottom end holds up....cut any corners for a few dollars of savings and it's likely to be off again in a couple of months at best.
Go to Repco or Bursons and get a "Haynes or Max Ellery" manual for your model both are good, based on strip down/build sequences, and under $50.00 a copy a good investment.
Look at the job and approach it as if you were carrying a 20,000kms warranty on it....You are! affraid cheers

Cheers Cranky
P.s. Tuesday 6th Sept is the 57th anniversary of my entry into the motor industry as a mechanic, still doing it .... Now I am called an Automotive Technician....can I charge more? clown Very Happy
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:20 pm

Thanks Cranky, only just seen this as I have an update on the situation....

Well, so the head is off. I took it to a engine reconditioner not far away. Was planning to have it tested, not because i didn'y think it was cracked, after taking it off i was sure it was cracked. I figured a test would show extent of cracking and whether it was repairable. Well the expert eye took one look at it still in the boot of my car and pointed out cracks left right and centre.... no bother for a test. Scrap metal now.

So there is someone selling these heads on ebay for $920 no less, who knows what postage cost is...

I searched high and low, and no one had these heads. Too old was the answer most of the time. So i started searching chinese manufacturers, found a few but was too difficult to arrange. I did get a price off one of them... around $160 but would have to freight it myself. Too hard to arrange.
Found another company a head importer, and they put me onto All Engine in QLD, so i rings them, yep they have 18 on the shelf!!! $600 delivered, I settled for that.
Will arrive Monday. Just needs the valves/ springs put in. Kids r going nuts, will come back for an edit...

So, the engine reco mob said would be about $100 to swap the valves over and reseat them etc so for that money, i won't have to buy a spring compressor and valve grind paste/ sticks etc.
As for the gasket or Valve Regrind Set (VRS).... i got a whole engine gasket kit off fleabay for less than i could buy a VRS for.... a no brainer. Has all in it including valve stem seals.
The project continues....

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Post  someday Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:35 pm

Hey FF, mate did ya ever get it sorted  Shocked  Laughing 

navara's ya gotta love'em or not!

Thought it was time to offload me old 86 trayback diesel 4x
Went to fire the ol girl up, hmm no water, fill radiator, water now pidling down the bell housing, rear welshplug stuffed  Q07  great ya can't even see the bugger Q03 
after doing what I do  Laughing  it now has a new rear welshpug, what a pr#ck of a job for something so simple Q07 
was about to throw the fan back on till I realised the water pumps all rumballs  Q07   Arrr the dilemmas continue   Q10   Laughing  Sad  cheers
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Post  Guest Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:56 pm

someday wrote:Hey FF, mate did ya ever get it sorted  Shocked  Laughing 
Certainly did.
Flogged it off to a mechanic and son who were gunna use it on a farm as a firewood truck. Laughing 
Some projects just ain't worth it. Suspect 

I would prefer to flog a dead horse. The SD25 motors were only good if looked after. This one wasn't. Q14 

Cheers, FF.

PS: got a bloody MX6 in the driveway instead now giving me grief. Q12 

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Post  someday Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:05 pm

Now that's cheat'n  Razz 

still throwing up whether to sell whole or wreck me old girl  Question  Shocked  Laughing 
as for the car, not to sure what I'm gonna do yet  Laughing
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