B&Z Super Enhancer for a 4500

HOBO'S Gold Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:16 pm

Hi all, Got my GPX4500 that I Got On ebay ( wow what a good buy I got), with it I got a B&Z Super Enhancer speaker combo, My Question is, Is there any advantage in using the the Enhancer, instead of the onboard Enhancer built in the GPX4500 Battery? Regards Johnny B&Z Super Enhancer for a 4500 Icon_sunny

Guest Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:15 pm

Firstly...YES!!!!!! well for me anyway chalk and cheese. Much more clarity and more tunability?? is that a word? plus the advantage of bypass.

Secondly, I saw your 4500 buy and with all those extras you scored a bargain!

Lastly, congrats on how the sale of your extreme is shaping up...you must be happy with the way it's heading.

Guest Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:39 pm

HOBO'S Gold wrote:Hi all, Got my GPX4500 that I Got On ebay ( wow what a good buy I got), with it I got a B&Z Super Enhancer speaker combo, My Question is, Is there any advantage in using the the Enhancer, instead of the onboard Enhancer built in the GPX4500 Battery? Regards Johnny

Yes I also agree with madtuna reguarding the B&Z and speaker combo, been using one for ages on the 4500.

Whilst the on board booster in the ML battery is very good this B&Z setup gives just a bit more grunt and a bit more easily adjusted for volume and sound in general. I use twin speakers on my setup, gives me a bit more still.

Good hunting with your new machine.

cheers dave

Jonathan Porter Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:13 pm

HOBO'S Gold wrote:Hi all, Got my GPX4500 that I Got On ebay ( wow what a good buy I got), with it I got a B&Z Super Enhancer speaker combo, My Question is, Is there any advantage in using the the Enhancer, instead of the onboard Enhancer built in the GPX4500 Battery? Regards Johnny

Aurum Australis suggested settings for the 4500 with the B&Z booster/Speaker combo.

Volume Limit 10 (FP is 12 in General Search Mode)), there is a reason for this which is explained in "The SETA Project" DVD. (Hint Oscillation Very Happy

)
Target Volume 8 (FP is 10 in General Search Mode))

These settings are the best for good quality audio out of the B&Z unit allowing the B&Z's electronics to condition the signal with minimal distortion.

JP

Guest Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:10 pm

Can you run the B&z enhancer with the 4500 battery.
Cheers,Dave.

Guest Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:41 pm

yes you can dave

Guest Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:17 am

Thanks Steve.Have used a D/tec but they only lasted a week before blowing up.Must be the amp acting as a pre amp and over loading the unit.
Dave

Guest Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:07 pm

Hey Johnny,
U wont find gold just looking at it in the box... lets know when u r over this way again.... this time dont forget the black label

Guest Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:32 pm

Why the blazes does a SUPER DETECTOR require super anything add-on?? For 6 grand+ it should already be at optimal development and performance and most definately not require an extra bit box attachment of signal enhancment and then to say that it has its own inbuilt enhancer (which is just part of the normal circuitry design) that is not good enough and requires a bit of outside help to get the signals to an acceptable level sort of smacks of crafty under development in order to get people to by the little extras that come out of the woodwork later. That seems to be a common thread with ML PIs; They all seem to need lots of extras to get em up to speed??

Guest Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:35 pm

Adrian SS wrote:Why the blazes does a SUPER DETECTOR require super anything add-on?? For 6 grand+ it should already be at optimal development and performance and most definately not require an extra bit box attachment of signal enhancment and then to say that it has its own inbuilt enhancer (which is just part of the normal circuitry design) that is not good enough and requires a bit of outside help to get the signals to an acceptable level sort of smacks of crafty under development in order to get people to by the little extras that come out of the woodwork later. That seems to be a common thread with ML PIs; They all seem to need lots of extras to get em up to speed??

Yes well do you also say the same about coils....why then do these same machines need extra coils....not just the one supplied with the machine. B&Z Super Enhancer for a 4500 Icon_question

Jonathan Porter Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:45 pm

Adrian SS wrote:Why the blazes does a SUPER DETECTOR require super anything add-on?? For 6 grand+ it should already be at optimal development and performance and most definately not require an extra bit box attachment of signal enhancment and then to say that it has its own inbuilt enhancer (which is just part of the normal circuitry design) that is not good enough and requires a bit of outside help to get the signals to an acceptable level sort of smacks of crafty under development in order to get people to by the little extras that come out of the woodwork later. That seems to be a common thread with ML PIs; They all seem to need lots of extras to get em up to speed??

There's a simple answer to that Adrian, don't bloody well buy into it if you feel the add ons don't work!!! I advocate add on boosters because they give far greater control over the already brilliant system provided by the manufacturer, and considering I was the one who presented them with the concept of it in the first pace I think I am within my rights to do so, don't you think?

In motorcycle circles the concept is called farkling, which means to add on and make pretty something that is already nice. Sometimes Farkles are just for bling effect (looks good but no real practical purpose) and sometimes they have a very practical purpose like the new pivot pegs I bought for my $14 500 Yamaha road/trail bike. Why should I spend $200+ on new pegs on a $14000+ motorcycle? Because the pegs are better than that provided by the manufacturer, plain and simple but I seriously doubt if Yamaha is going to start supplying them from factory do you?

Like I said before if you don't agree then fine vote with your dollars, but if you think your detector supplied with a DD coil and a communist choice harness is good enough then by all means stick with what you get for your 6 grand but please leave those who know better to our own devices!!! I know I can find gold with the GPX-4500 as is straight out of the crate, but I also know for a little bit extra I can fine tune the thing to even greater levels of performance.

Just my 2 cents.

JP

BTW the B&Z Neptunes Super Enhancer has been around since the Super Detector 2100. affraid

Guest Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:09 pm

a mate just spent $650,000.00 on a new plane...first thing he did was rip out and upgrade the factory comms B&Z Super Enhancer for a 4500 Icon_biggrin

Guest Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:03 pm

I will stick to what said;
For 6000 bucks you are getting a very simple LF pulse transmitter and receiver. 6000 bucks should give you a detector well and truely operating at it highest peak of performance, it should not need any fine tuning at that price.
The average TV or Lap top computor is way more complex than any PI metal detector at a fraction of the cost and they usually work just fine straight out of the box. (unless it was made in China). I understand MLs will be going Off Shore soon. There goes the quality control.

And as for that 650,000 plane; that's a lot of dollars for something with a comm system that you didn't like out of the crate. Still, if you have the cash and you like the rest of the plane then there is not much wrong with upgrading some of the systems.

I spent many years doing mods and fitting new instruments and equipment to military aircraft so I have a rough idea why some things need changing from standard.

Jonathan Porter Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:06 am

Adrian SS wrote:I will stick to what said;
For 6000 bucks you are getting a very simple LF pulse transmitter and receiver. 6000 bucks should give you a detector well and truely operating at it highest peak of performance, it should not need any fine tuning at that price.

Adrian for 6000 bucks you are getting the best gold prospecting machine in the world, you are paying for that privilege because the market is small, but because the market is small you also have a lot less people to compete with in your quest to try and pay for it with the gold you find, thankfully we live in a country where you can do just that if you are prepared to make the effort rather than bleating about the price etc on an internet forum! If the Minelab Pulse machines are so simple why isn't anyone else doing it, specially when you consider your innuendo that they are a rip off?

As it stands right now in this moment in time the 4500 runs rings around every other gold targeted metal detector on the market (previous Minelab machines included). Based on my successes with the 4500 so far I made my money back in the first week and since then its paid for all my family expenses, paid out one vehicle and maintained the loan on another! My add on extras for the 4500 are 1 x Hipstick, 1 x B&Z Booster/Speaker combo, 1 x Camel Back (carry over from my GPX-4000 days), 1 x Otto Shaft (upper and lower also carry over), 1 x Control Box cover (carried over), and 1 x 18" Nugget Finder coil (main coil of use but have a 17" ellip and 16" round I use a lot also) which would equal an approx $1200 investment or 1 ounce of gold or 20% of the retail price.

From a business point of view I'm VERY happy with the returns so far on my investment!!! lol!

JP

llanbric Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:52 am

I think that options are called options because they are optional, you have the choice of paying a few bucks more for a potential performance enhancement, or not.

Bill

GoldstalkerGPX Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:39 pm

Adrian SS wrote:
I spent many years doing mods and fitting new instruments and equipment to military aircraft so I have a rough idea why some things need changing from standard.

I'd be interested to know what coil you are using and if it is not the standard coild then WHY NOT!!!!!!

Have you never changed the standard radio in you car?? or the crap wheels on that bbq, the pick up's on that guitar, the list is endless. Besides now we are talking about changing from standard and not add on's like previously mentioned.
Thought for the day......If people didn't want or like what was purchased with an item ie: military aircraft, you would not have had a job!
Cheers

Guest Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:32 pm

ill second (or 3rd) the booster, running twin speakers and to have the ability to flick to bypass and adjust the volume without having to accessing the control box is excellent.

Regards
John

Guest Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:35 pm

HI PJ,

I pretty much agree with everything you have said.

The market is small so prices are high and if the Greens get their way, the market will become a lot smaller very soon

When I mentioned PI detectors being simple I didn’t just mean ML machines, all Hand held hobby type metal detectors are very simple circuits.

However it is fairly easy to convince people without electronic knowledge that a particular piece of electronic equipment is more complex and valuable than what it really is. ( The L.R Ls are good examples).

The main reason other manufacturers have not produced a machine that is similar to the ML PIs is because ML have got the patents to the circuitry very locked in.

They even tried to claim patent rights to LITZ WIRE used in their detector coils.] (OK JP, I concede that this is not quite correct)

Litz (Litzenhart) wire, (not sure of the spelling) has been around since God was a boy and is used to this day in billions of pieces of electronic equipment and is and was, designed originally to help eliminate electromagnetic interference from LF,VLF, RF and UHF transformers in radio circuits. I first learnt about LITZ wire back in 1960 when studying radio and TV repair.

I recall in the early days of detectors when Catch Phrases and Terms like; AVG,AGC and Phase Sensitive Demodulators was used to convince people that metal detectors that contained those types of circuits were incredibly good and therefore were very expensive. These circuits are No Brainer simple and require just a few dollars worth of components to produce. AVG, AGC and Phase Sensitive Demodulators are in gazillions of radios and TVs and other electronic control circuits. There is nothing special or expensive about them.

The same goes for metal detector Signal Enhancers.

Adrian

Guest Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:52 pm

Adrian SS wrote:HI PJ,

The same goes for metal detector Signal Enhancers.

Adrian

So are you saying they're no good or don't work or no need for them or to dear, what's your point. Lots of sutff you can buy extras for after the inital purchase of an item be it a motor vehicle or any other type of machine. I guess thats why there are after market manufactures of lots of stuff for lots of different things.

Metal detectors are no different.

cheers dave

Jonathan Porter Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:32 pm

Adrian SS wrote:The main reason other manufacturers have not produced a machine that is similar to the ML PIs is because ML have got the patents to the circuitry very locked in.[/font">

They even tried to claim patent rights to LITZ WIRE used in their detector coils.]

Adrian, Minelab did not "....try to patent Litz wire" they patented the application of it in the manufacture of coils for their detectors, actually practically speaking this would go for all wire if the coil worked with a Minelab machine. As you can see by the very healthy after market coil side of things Minelab are very lenient about the subject. As far as other patents are concerned, Bruce Candy came up with the design of all the Minelab PI's and as such is well and truly within his rights to protect his intellectual property, the way you have worded it almost sounds as if they are mongrels for doing so!!! scratch

Regards

Jonathan

PS The B&Z booster is very good at what it does AGC or otherwise as can be attested by hundreds of prospectors around the country and AFAIK as we speak is the only aftermarket booster that works correctly with the GPX-4500, I don't have to promote the electronic wizardry of them to make them sell the results speak for themselves. cheers

Guest Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:51 pm

Jonathan,

The original inventer of Litz Wire developed it for the same purpose that ML use it in their detectors..... To reduce the effects of electromagnetic interference in receivers and transmitters.
For ML to say that nobody else can use that wire for the purpose it was invented in the first place whether it be in metal detector coils or any other coil for that matter is nothing short of rediculous. ML are using it for what it was designed to do electrically. ML simply took a product that already existed in many different forms and used it the way it was intended to be used in the first place. How can they claim sole rights to that.
Adrian

Guest Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:55 pm

I for one would be lost without my enhancer and firmly believe it gives u a firm advantage... Here in the triangle where the public land has been flogged by every machine that has come out since the seventies and used by many people including tour operators, its a wonder that there is gold left.

However we are fortunate that u can still go over completely flogged ground and hear the unforgetable hesitation in the threashold that may/may not be missed without an enhancer indicating a nugget (nine pieces over xmas in an area flogged by tour operators in times gone past). I for one accept what JP has to say about M/L... Bruce Candy has made alot of people more financially better off so why wouldnt they want to protect their interests... Try using a White's or a Fishers machine in some of our mineralised areas.... haaa good luck....

Guest Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:14 pm

HI Dave, Raymond,

No don't get me wrong ,I know that the Enhancers work great; and that's the problem, I just think that everything that is in that little enhancer should (for 6000 Dollars) already be in the detector. I also know that Bruce candy is the MERLIN of metal detector designers.
So the question is; Why go through such lengthy design, testing and production stages of a machine that, when it gets out onto the gold fields, a couple of back yard techo's can get it to work better than what BC did?

Guest Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:56 pm

Adrian,

I hope you never have occasion to buy a new 4WD Toyota, Patrol, Prado, Pajero., Landrover, etc.etc. because if you want to use it for the purpose it was designed, as a minimum you're going to have to put new tyres on it and upgrade the suspension.

Gee... wouldn't you think the makers would have produced them with all the "fruit" on them?

No!!!

They are produced as a base platform that the end user can modify to suit their needs. Exactly the same as ML does with their detectors.
We can use any amount of coils, batteries, headphones, shafts, bungies, enhancers, control box covers, backpacks.
In fact, the only thing all of us have in common is the control box. We even vary the settings to suit ourselves.

Robert

robby_h Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:03 pm

Adrian,
The patent you refer to is for a reduced eddy current coil. Minelab didn't patent the use of litz wire and the patent doesn't claim to reduce EMI from other transmissions.
It's based on the finding that excessive metal in the coil housing can respond as if moving relative to the coil when the coil moves over mineralised ground and rocks. Not knowing this could still result in a noisy coil even if litz wire was used.
Rob.

Beer Beeper Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:06 am

JP wrote, "P.S. The B&Z booster is very good at what it does AGC or otherwise as can be attested by hundreds of prospectors around the country and AFAIK as we speak is the only aftermarket booster that works correctly with the GPX-4500, I don't have to promote the electronic wizardry of them to make them sell the results speak for themselves."

JP, thanks for taking the time to explain to us, but what does AGF and AFAIK stand for?

JP or anyone else, will the DETacc Super Sound booster with the 2 external speaker setup also work with the 4500?

"Can you run the B&Z enhancer with the 4500 battery.
Cheers, Dave."

"yes you can dave

Steve"

So a person can run the B&Z booster setup along with the 4500 battery-booster, being both boosters running at the same time will work fine!

Thank you JP for your help, this is also very good information:
Speakers or headphones
https://golddetecting.forumotion.net/equipment-accessories-f21/speakers-or-headphones-t151.htm?highlight=external+speaker
Jonathan Porter on Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:59 am
JP wrote, "Speakers when set up properly with a good quality booster for the purpose such as the B&Z will outperform headphones, this I have proven time and time again. However the system has to be set up properly, which means on the GP series having the volume control set at 12 O'clock and the threshold elevated slightly compared to headphone use. On the GPX range things are a little different due to the internal Volume controls but once again easily set up to perform well. As a side note I have worked in very high wind conditions and also with machinery working nearby and have found the B&Z Booster/Speaker system to work just as well as headphones. As Nightjar said no more ear infections, and I can keep and "ear" out for what's going on in my surroundings.

JP"

Jonathan Porter Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:57 am

The B&Z booster is wired in such a way that it does NOT trigger the inbuilt booster of the GPX-4500, however the speakers supplied with them if plugged into the 4500 battery direct will trigger the inbuilt booster thereby providing a back up option if ever the B&Z fails (flat batteries for instance).

Inline types of booster condition the signal before it reaches the battery, the 4500's inbuilt booster then tries to also boost the signal thereby effectively performing a double boost (sounds horrible). There is no way round this except going into the battery and running the audio wires directly from the input to the output socket bypassing the circuit board altogether.

JP

Beer Beeper Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:25 am

I learned something, I understand and thank you, that fully explains it very clearly!

One more question to JP or anyone else, is there a Volume Limiter built into either 3000, 4500, or the B&Z(with external speakers this maybe is not needed) that limits very loud sound blasts(especially with headphones), and clips off the sound at a certain high decibel(dB) to prevent hearing damage?

Jonathan Porter Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:35 pm

You can control this via the Volume control on all the GP series, with the 4500 it is the Volume Limit control that helps with maximum target volume over large targets. I would say they aren't a clipper as such but do limit things to an extent. I recommend B&Z Speaker/combo users run their GP series machines with the Volume control at 12 O'clock and GPX series machines with the Volume Limit on 10 (also cuts back on oscillation (see "The SETA Project" DVD for more info).

Hope this helps,

JP

Beer Beeper Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:43 pm

That's excellent JP and helps, thanks alot! Some headphones have a built in Volume Limiter like the Gray Ghost> Black Widows, Ultimate, NDT(No Down Time), etc.

Also this 'might' allow totally deaf people to metal detect. The Vibra-Phone 280 lets a person replace the metal detectors sound with Vibration.

http://www.treasureproducts.com/vibraphone.html

Note: Vibra-Phone 280 work's with most all of the common detector models except Minelab and Fisher.

I e-mailed them and this is their reply:
"Thank you for your interest in the Vibra-Phone 280. The internal design of some metal detectors are just not compatible with the Vibra-Phone. The Vibra-Phone works with most detectors, but we have found that the two manufacturers you mention may not allow the Vibra-Phone to work properly."

So it is still a bit of a mystery if it will work with a Minelab SD / GP(X)? But if a person is 'totally deaf', or almost totally deaf(you can get an assessment from your wife if you are not sure), and you want to metal detect, it may be worth taking a chance at $79.95 usd. for one of these.

B&Z Super Enhancer for a 4500

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