Crevicer Gold Sucker

Thought I would try one of these gadgets? Has anybody used one or something similar?

I have seen one working and it seemed to go alright but there was a guy just down the river who said it was illegal in Vic as it was shifting sand with water and therefore could be considered a dredge ! He was saying you could pump water but not lift sand and gravel with the same water ! I personally think that is drawing a long bow. Why not ring the dept in your state and get a official response ? Then let us all know !

I thought it would fall into the Hand tool classification.

You have to move dirt to use a pan or hand fed sluice box and this gadget lifts dirt out of the stream Like shoveling, (does not eject it straight back into the river like a dredge)and places it in a bucket where it is then placed into a dish and washed. It is unquestionably not a dredge.

I went down that road with this guy but he was adamant that the law was about ,inductor something or other, he was sure that any lifting of sand and gravel with water to be sluiced was considered dredging and was just a play on words so the ranger could interpit as he/ she saw fit

It's a grey area. If a ranger or parks asks you or questions you it will come down to their interpretation of the law. We can see the logic & the way it works, but will the authorities?

When you put a shovel in the water you lift sand , water and gravel and place it in a dish for panning,
When you place this sucker in the water you are lifting sand gravel and water to be placed in a dish for panning.
IT IS NOT A DREDGE. If you call this a dredge then you will have to call a shovel a dredge

Adrian ss wrote:When you put a shovel in the water you lift sand , water and gravel and place it in a dish for panning,
When you place this sucker in the water you are lifting sand gravel and water to be placed in a dish for panning.
IT IS NOT A DREDGE. If you call this a dredge then you will have to call a shovel a dredge

I sence you have made up your mind Adrian ! And that is fine , buy one and see how it goes ,you asked the question and got some responses on which you plainly have a different position ! So why not phone the parks ranger in your area and ask the question of the people who enforce the law of the land ? This will eliminate any doubt in all our minds
I do see them sometimes advertised as hand dredges !

I dont think its mechanised either,and its pretty much the same as using a Yabbie pump but only more effective.
Isnt the definition of Mechanical either petrol or electric lifting of debris for processing ?

Gus wrote:I dont think its mechanised either,and its pretty much the same as using a Yabbie pump but only more effective.
Isnt the definition of Mechanical either petrol or electric lifting of debris for processing ?

Is it ? Who says ? What does the relative state legislation say? Again I think these questions should be asked by email or letter ,phone conversation won't do , and if it is legal in that state I would carry that reply in my kit when I was prospecting.
Until you do that it's all conjecture .

Vic Miners right states:
32. Can the holder of a Miner’s Right use motorised equipment to process gravel for minerals that has been excavated using hand held equipment and loaded into the processing equipment by hand?
Yes, however, significant land disturbance using these methods will not be permitted



Your Honour, I would say that it is non motorised hand held equipment.
(Further more I would say, your honour, this envelope I found on the floor full of hundred dollar bills, I believe is yours, wink wink)

I did a search on site and found lots of posts Adrain ,,, here's just one https://golddetecting.forumotion.net/t511-gold-sucker-pump?highlight=Sucker

58. OBLIGATIONS OF HOLDER
(1) The holder of a miner’s right acting under that right must not -
(a) use any equipment for the purposes of excavation on the land, other than non-mechanical hand tools;

A shovel with sand and water is a NON- machanical hand tool but is a pump with mechanical parts ,plunger ect. A hand tool? It all depends how you interprate the rule! I'm sure I and others would define this differently than a Parks ranger lol!

Hi Ark. Non-mechanical hand tool. As you say, a hand operated tool. Not motorised is my interpretation of what the law is saying.
PS. The law is vague, which may or may not work in your favour in court.

shiraz wrote:Hi Ark. Non-mechanical hand tool. As you say, a hand operated tool. Not motorised is my interpretation of what the law is saying.
PS. The law is vague, which may or may not work in your favour in court.

I personally wouldn't take a chance on it without a personal ruling

It has moving parts so thus technically and legally is a mechanical device and would be deemed such in a court of law. It does not have to be motorised to be mechanical. A shovel is one piece and no moving parts.

Holedigga wrote:It has moving parts so thus technically and legally is a mechanical device and would be deemed such in a court of law. It does not have to be motorised to be mechanical. A shovel is one piece and no moving parts.

Hi Holedigga do ya think you could get different rulings in different parks ?

Holedigga wrote:It has moving parts so thus technically and legally is a mechanical device and would be deemed such in a court of law. It does not have to be motorised to be mechanical. A shovel is one piece and no moving parts.

Yes but it's hand operated.

I doubt it Ark, but who knows. Shiraz, a dredge is hand operated too, and they are illegal. A suction/bait pump has moving parts, thus a mechanical process and thus is illegal. Period.

A lot of courts these days will have a look at what was the intent of the law not what is the black and white of the words !

I'm nearly sure that big cutter dredge that deepeden the channell in Port Philip Bay had to have special permission to do the work because it was a huge Venturi dredge

As I hear it ,dredging isnt banned ,per say, but you will never get a permit to use one .

So what has occured here is exactly what I thought would happen and that is: Prospectors and rangers are unclear as to the correct interpretation of the regs re Mechanical equipment and Hand tools.The regulations are so vague re the definition of Mechanical tool/eqipment that it is open for misinterpretation by prospectors and regulation administrators, rangers etc and this in itself would prevent a legal and proper ruling regarding the use of said Sucker Pump being made in a law court if you were prepared to take it that far.....I think it should be!?

So the definition of a dredge and mechanical equipment and hand tools needs to be clarified and set in stone.

Holedigga wrote:I doubt it Ark, but who knows. Shiraz, a dredge is hand operated too, and they are illegal. A suction/bait pump has moving parts, thus a mechanical process and thus is illegal. Period.

I don't think a dredge is hand operated, the motor causes the suction. If you don't turn the motor on, it will not work.

Anyway, I'm quite prepared to see Adrianne use it. We need guinea pigs brave men to test the boundaries of the law. You go right ahead Adrianne.

Adrian ss wrote:Thought I would try one of these gadgets? Has anybody used one or something similar?

What a load of gobbldy goop!!! Adrian ss go for your life a don't give it a second thought!! It's a yabbie pump mr ranger now go away!! I might get my self one if they work ok

Ren...

Adrian ss wrote:So what has occured here is exactly what I thought would happen and that is: Prospectors and rangers are unclear as to the correct interpretation of the regs re Mechanical equipment and Hand tools.The regulations are so vague re the definition of Mechanical tool/eqipment that it is open for misinterpretation by prospectors and regulation administrators, rangers etc and this in itself would prevent a legal and proper ruling regarding the use of said Sucker Pump being made in a law court if you were prepared to take it that far.....I think it should be!?

So the definition of a dredge and mechanical equipment and hand tools needs to be clarified

Yep that's it in a nutshell!

( The truth is out there ,tread your own path)

Ouch Ren ! The man with the peaked hat rules lol! Otherwise you end up with clowns in the likes of Reedy Creek at Beechworth using a 6 inch dredge to pillage a creek that is in a National Park ! But it looks like some prospectors who spend a lot of time there dobbed them in and the results will be that all the rest of us will have a place to go and have a legal run at what gold is there
I believe these clowns were locals as well , they should hang their heads in shame.

Ark wrote:Ouch Ren ! The man with the peaked hat rules lol! Otherwise you end up with clowns in the likes of Reedy Creek at Beechworth using a 6 inch dredge to pillage a creek that is in a National Park ! But it looks like some prospectors who spend a lot of time there dobbed them in and the results will be that all the rest of us will have a place to go and have a legal run at what gold is there
I believe these clowns were locals as well , they should hang their heads in shame.

I agree with that, but this yabbie pump is a piss in the ocean compared to a dredge!!

Ren...

Ren wrote:

Ark wrote:Ouch Ren ! The man with the peaked hat rules lol! Otherwise you end up with clowns in the likes of Reedy Creek at Beechworth using a 6 inch dredge to pillage a creek that is in a National Park ! But it looks like some prospectors who spend a lot of time there dobbed them in and the results will be that all the rest of us will have a place to go and have a legal run at what gold is there
I believe these clowns were locals as well , they should hang their heads in shame.

I agree with that, but this yabbie pump is a piss in the ocean compared to a dredge!!

Ren...

And that's why I've heard some and I say some rangers turn a blind eye to these things ! BUT IT WOULD BE A BRAVE MAN TO USE ONE ON THE REEDY AT THE MOMENT because of what these clowns have done ! I've actuly heard tody that they were intimidating people with kids on the creek as well !!! What heros! I hope the book is thrown at them !

G'day I think they mean power tools which is Electric,Petrol,Hydraulic or Pneumatic (compressed air) just my 2 bobs worth...

Cheers.

Mike.

Mike54 wrote:G'day I think they mean power tools which is Electric,Petrol,Hydraulic or Pneumatic (compressed air) just my 2 bobs worth...

Cheers.

Mike.

As we all do BUT I doesn't say that! And I'm sure I would need more than 2 bobs worth for the fine lol!