Minelab and PMAV Information

Minelab News

Listened to a talk by Geoff Strang of Miners Den Mitcham who brought us up to date on various issues

1. Miners Den is owned by Minelab and is the Retail arm of that company.
2. Minelab is owned by Codan Limited who are an Australian world wide electronics company
3. Detectors provided to the general public are only a small part of Minelab's business, the military take a lot more detectors which are more simplified as they are used by solders who may have no knowledge of machine use apart from an on/off switch.
4. The GPX4500 is in short supply in Australia - why - there is a gold rush in the Sudan and Tanzania. With peace being proclaimed in these two countries, one of the changes in activities is prospecting and detecting for gold.
5. Minelab has only a development / manufacturing plant which is in Adelaide and it produces to a world wide market - USA which incorporates North and South America whilst Ireland looks after Europe and Africa. Australia looks after the Pacific Area.
6. Product Information
- One of the best detectors for small gold is the X Terra 705 (around $1300). Powered by 4 AA batteries and fitted with a 10" x 5" DD it is just as good as a 4500 for small gold down a couple of inches and can be used side by side with a 4500. It does not compete in other areas of soil mineralization and depth.


PMAV Information

The PMAV is primarily a political lobby group who endeavours to protect the interests of prospectors in Victoria. There are several branches around Victoria where the voices of the ordinary prospector is heard and used to fomulate policy. They are our voice to the Government
Without the PMAV we wouldnt have any areas available in Victoria for detecting, they would locked up in State Parks for the PMAV has fought hard to keep detecting areas open. It is for this reason groups like the PMAV
and the Western Australian group APLA need our financial support and encouragement. Join them today!

Jeff

G'Day Jeff,
There is a lot of prospectors reaping the rewards of the
PMAV who don't bother to join It only costs about 1.5 grams, less if you are a penioner.

Grandfather Johnson

Hey jeff maybe a rep from pmav should come to tarnagulla to have a talk about what they do etc i will sign up i think it would be in everyones best interest to join even just to get the numbers on paper,
regards sean

Wow! Thanks Jeff.

I hope money from sea pirates in Sudan is not buying any part of the 380 new GPX 4500's. That is alot of money for poor African people, but it is very good for them if they can swing it legally. 380 units x about $5000 = $1,900,000.

6. Product Information
- There will be a mid range replacement (around $3000) for the GP2200 which may be a basic 4500 without the bells and whistles (in development)

Jeff, did you make a mistake above on the GP2200, and instead mean SD2200?

I have said for a while that Minelab's next step should be a lighter weight more compact unit(GPX 5???) about the same size as the E-Trac and Safari. With a built in battery with booster and external speaker all on the unit itself.

Thanks for the update Jeff

Brett

The pavlovas( crusty on the outside and soft on the inside) Sorry that's my personal interpretation of PMAV.They are pretty good at putting their hands up the bum of a puppet.
I have been shut down many times for asking what this body is doing now. As opposed to what they may have done in the past. The crowning glory that to this day they still ride on is the iron bark forests. I simply want to know what they are doing now? Riding off the back of the past is not a reason to join this group. Prospectors and miners are a contradiction within the people they stand for. Lets face it, they dislike each other. Where is the money? Miners, is the answer miners first, prospectors second.
Why does the PMAV and or its members own so much land in the gold fields. I will put it this way as a hypothetical question. If I buy land in a well known gold area and build dams then take the minerals as a result of building those dams. Then sell the property with a dam on it. Sounds smart doesn't it.
Meanwhile they insist that their members are the only ones covered with public liability insurance. I still don't understand where this insurance kicks in or what i covers other than a gathering of its members. Public liability is a very vaigu area on crown land.
Who is standing behind crown land and what it stands for? In the last 10 years I have seen nothing to indicate the halt of crown land being turned into park land of some discription.
My challenge to the PMAV is: What are you doing for the people of this forum? Your job should be keeping areas open for us ladies and gentlmen. Prove that you have done this in the last 5 to 10 years and I will join.
In fact I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you.
Brett.

"They are pretty good at putting their hands up the bum of a puppet."

Its amazing what people will say when they have their head in the sand. The Eureka Echo, the magazine of the PMAV, spells out what they are doing and after this I will publish the Presidents Report which you may like to read.
One of the actions of a lobby group is that often their results arent tangible ie discussions with prospectors and miners and when we have a Draft Plan for reducing the land available for prospecting in National Park Proposals, they have had to put submissions to the government protecting our interests. No one esle is going to do it and yet people ask "what do they do for members of this forum?"

Maybe before making these comments, it may be more prudent to find out yourself by reading the magazines or attending many of the meetings at branches throughout Victoria. Geoff mentioned that at the last meeting in Mitcham, 60 prospectors attended, thats a decent attendance in anyones language. His phone number is 03 9873 1244 if you want further information.

These people dont have to do it, they do so because they want to to ensure that we get a fair deal, just like the the miners at the Eureka Stockade. So why dont you join them and give them your support as well.

Jeff

It's been a busy quarter for the PMAV. Not only have we a major review of Victorian mining legislation to deal with, we completed a submission to the Bushfire Royal Commission, vegetation guidelines for mining were released, DPI announced a review of its operations with a view to streamlining and you will see from other Echo articles, life continues to be a challenge for small-scale miners and prospectors and therefore the PMAV.
I was thrilled when Sean Ashcroft, President of the Western Australia's PMAV equivalent - APLA and Graham & Kath McMahon, President and Secretary of the Northern Territory Association attended our April committee meeting.

We abandoned our normal agenda and just talked about the challenges and opportunities for our members.
We learned a lot about each other and have agreed to maintain much closer contact.
Wallace Young made the meeting happen. The meeting was much appreciated by all present, well done Wallace.
The review of the Mineral Resources (Sustainable Development) Act will keep us busy for the foreseeable future. This is the first time in 20 years that the Act has been subject to detailed scrutiny to see if it is working.
Geoff Strang, Paul Norton and I are co-ordinating the PMAV's involvement with help and support from other executives and committee members.

Part of our agenda in the review will be to revisit our Eureka 150 Demands. This type of work is the PMAV's fundamental reason to exist. If we get it wrong, then the effects on both prospecting and small-scale mining could be considerable.
If you know of people in our industries who are not members - point out what they could lose if we weren't around!
We have locked in a date and venue for this year's AGM (Heathcote - 18 Oct )and we will again be hosting an Expo on the same weekend. We enjoyed ourselves so much at Heathcote last year that we are going to revisit. We know the venue, we know the town and we know that there is still gold to be found. Some members were conspicuously absent from the AGM last year. They had decided that the one time they could be part of a state gathering; they'd rather be in the bush prospecting.
Unfortunately the AGM/Expo clashes with the Ararat Gold Dig - this is a busy time of year and there is so much on we had to clash with something. While I of course encourage you to come to Heathcote, we fully support the Gold Dig and wish them every success. The PMAV is 29 this year and I would hope each of you will attend the Expo and the AGM with a view to celebrating the rights and opportunities Victorian prospectors continue to enjoy.

You will see that we have just received the draft plan for the St Arnaud National Park (page 1). When I opened the page to see where we were restricted, I got angry. After so many years of working with the PMAV and educating bureaucrats that prospecting is harmless, we are still unnecessarily restricted. Green bull-dust still means more than fact. Appease the greens, otherwise they'll jack up.
Now is the time for prospectors to do so -let's take a leaf from their book and shout 'we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more'! Enough is surely enough?
I remember when I first got involved in mining. It was during the drought of the 1980's and we'd be working in Wedderburn under bright blue skies - it was very cold, but weather didn't stop us working - after we'd thawed the bull-dozer out that is. This is one of the few benefits of a drought - no mud to slide around in while prospecting ormmmg.
So rug up and make the most of the finer brisk, weather in our wonderful goldfields.


Rita Bentley, PMAV President.

hey brett your like these baskets{to beat the censor} that won`t join the union but reap all the benefits

Beeper
If they are going to put in a mid range machine it would be to replace the 2200v2
Cheers Dig

Hi Dig

Like any company Minelab has to go forward and meet the market. Just looking at their current range, they have detectors around the $1000+ plus mark and one at the high range, the GPX4500 - the cadillac. 'Many of the detectors in the middle ie the GP3000 are still very good but getting old.

Question - how do you update the 2200 or the 3000 and still stay within a relevant price range. The talk is about how harder it is to find gold and are people going to pay $6000 and not be guaranteed of success. It is harder for us experienced guys, and worse for a new chum.

So you would expect a simpler machine around the mid range mark and this makes sense. The X Terra is primarily a coin and relic machine but if you put a joey on it, then its becomes a gold detector. Who are the competitors - Whites of course, so I suggest there may not be an upgrade to the 4500 for a while ( if there is, it is only bells and whistles) and if they are selling plenty- why should they?

Its an interesting question but if you have a 4500 I wouldn't worry about an upgrade. Thats my opinion anyway.

Jeff

Hello members,
Unable to comment about the PMAV however feel sure they are slugging it out and trying to maintain an equilibrium between respective parties just as APLA are striving here in the West.
For any doubters I suggest you borrow a newsletter from a member and see first hand the amount of work that goes on behind the lines. You can read the front page of the APLA- Datum Post here; http://www.apla-prospectors.org.au/
The APLA executives are meeting reguarly with government and mining companies to try and maintain continuity between prospectors and the like.
Like any association, team, organisation or club etc the strength comes from their supporters/ members.
http://www.geocities.com/onyx1551/APLAupdate002.pdf

For those who are sitting on their hands and whining about what is to be done, not being done and what is in it for them may I suggest that the days of detecting will be numbered if the mentioned associations do not get our support.
Don't sit back and wait for it to be sorted out then think about joining- JOIN NOW!.

http://www.apla-prospectors.org.au/




Regards
Peter

Jeff,
This is a forum and like everyone else, I am entitled to my opinion. Saying I have my head in the sand is not respecting my opinion That's simply your opinion and I will respect that.
CJ,
You likened the PMAV to a union. Maybe that's why I am sceptical of their motives. You may have hit the nail on the head.
Nightjar,
You are quite right in saying we should support the people that support us, but we should also do research into any organisation that claims to be looking after our interests before we part with cash blindly.
Jeff posted the comments from the PMAV's last meeting and maybe this should be a regular post on this forum.
There is some anomalies amongst their comments. One point being. The Green party appear to be a problem. As far as I know and this is after talking with members of the green party, they have very little if not, no problem with prospectors. Maybe they do have problems with miners and this is where the confusion sets in.
I have asked many times what does the PMAV do and what are they doing right now and have only been given paperwork or information much like an answer from a politician. Then at the same time I am told that if I pay to join I will be informed a little further.
Come on PMAV how about a bit of full disclosure. Who knows it might actually help you?
Brett.

Frieda and I are very proud to provide both PMAV and APLA a small amount from the sale from each and every DVD we sell in Australia, it is just our way of putting a little back in to something we hold very close to our hearts. To suggest for a second that they (PMAV and APLA) are ineffective is naive to the extreme and maybe smacks of a lack of basic understanding of what is really going on behind the scenes.

We can all of us collectively do our bit, unfortunately for us we live well outside the zones of both parties so vote with our dollars which a lot of you can easily do by just putting a few grams back into the hobby so that we at least have a voice, who cares about politics just get involved by becoming a member if for no other reason than to keep your voice where it counts, amongst the numbers!!

QLD is a very good example of what can happen if your basic rights are removed, so if you want to have to beg, borrow or as some are doing steal your way into productive gold areas in the future then by all means sit on your hands or stick you head in the sand and let things just pass you by, personally I would rather have my "hand up a puppet" at least that way I have a shot at keeping things on an even keel!! Eureka Stockade happened for a reason, please don't let the hard work of our forbears go down the gurgler just for the sake of doing something as simple as becoming a member of the PMAV or APLA.

JP

Post Note: If you don't vote, then don't bloody complain!! Might seem harsh, but we have liberties today because someone before us took a stand, don't for Gods sake throw it all away for the sake of not being involved!! A few grams each year is a very small price to pay to keep your voice where it can be heard.

JP,
You are right and I can understand why you would support any group that stands to protect our hobby.
Put simply, I like to know who is supporting me and I have never been convinced by the PMAV. Maybe my introduction to the PMAV via Geoff Strang distorted my interpretation.
In the words of a good film. "Build it and they will come".
I don't believe it has been built yet for the hobby prospector.
Brett.
PS. Some hobbyist don't get more than a gram in a year and its unfair to expect them to give it up to support a group that they know nothing about.

Hello Brett,
Not wanting to single you out, however you personally have raised the question, put quite bluntly your comments are a prime example of why we need to get through to the detecting community.
Your quote: "I like to know who is supporting me "
No question, it is fair to ask the question, but to not support an association until they have dotted their "i's" and crossed their "t's" is like asking a Captain to sail a ship, raise the sails, pull the anchor, clear the harbour before he takes on a crew?
We need members or we prospectors/detectorists are going to be squeezed out of available mineralised areas.
It is still a fact, the major mineral discoveries within Australia since 1788 have been discovered by "Prospectors" the likes of you and I who wander the length and breadth of this country.

Did I mention anything about joining PMAV or APLA?

Peter

JP & Nightjar,
I have been so sceptical of the people that want my signature/vote that I have taken the time to contact many relevant politicians. I was and still am very worried about the view that politicians have on our impact on the environment. Frankly, not one of them had any negative comment. Their surprise to my questions of concern about the future of our hobby put me on the back foot. Not one politician had a problem with prospectors. Not even the green party. Maybe we are being tagged as miners at some level.
Not even the local rangers give a hoot about the odd prospector/detector operator. The government couldn't care less as to what we do as hobbyists.
Maybe we should be fighting for an exception from the mining act as prospectors/metal detector operators. We should be free to go wherever bush walkers are free to go including so called park land in all its forms. Penalties should apply for not back filling.
Brett.

Thanks Jeff and Dig.

Beeper
If they are going to put in a mid range machine it would be to replace the 2200v2
Cheers Dig

Hi Dig
Like any company Minelab has to go forward and meet the market. Just looking at their current range, they have detectors around the $1000 plus mark and one at the high range, the GPX4500 - the cadillac. 'Many of the detectors in the middle ie the GP3000 are still very good but getting old.

Question - how do you update the 2200 or the 3000 and still stay within a relevant price range. The talk is about how harder it is to find gold and are people going to pay $6000 and not be guaranteed of success. It is harder for us experienced guys, and worse for a new chum.

So you would expect a simpler machine around the mid range mark and this makes sense. The X Terra is primarily a coin and relic machine but if you put a joey on it, then its becomes a gold detector. Who are the competitors - Whites of course, so I suggest there may not be an upgrade to the 4500 for a while ( if there is, it is only bells and whistles) and if they are selling plenty- why should they?

Its an interesting question but if you have a 4500 I wouldn't worry about an upgrade. Thats my opinion anyway.
Jeff

Yes a new second cheaper mid-range priced PI unit that replaces the 2200v2, less cost than the 4500. That's what I am trying to say. Minelab should put 4500 technology in a lighter weight and more compact smaller E-Trac or Safari sized housing, or into a Sovereign-Eureka Gold hip-mountable housing, and a third unit to compete with the Garrett Infinium LS, how about putting basic 4500 technology in analog without all the bells and wistles into a waterproof Excalibur housing!! Are you listening Minelab~!


(Off Topic) For many gold prospectors drinking is our second favorite sport after detecting: You may have heard of champagne cocktails or breakfast champagne with strawberries. Literally for what ales you to cure feeling crappy, cure stress, stomach complaints, and melancholy to pick up your spirits for a well being so you can feel like you can live again, the finest champagne ever made is ice cold beer which is good anytime of day, even in the morning, and also with corn flakes. To some purists, the mixing of champagne or beer with anything might seem totally unthinkable which is true but here is a new twist and new way to enjoy our favorite drink: 17 Awesome Beer Cocktails
A cold beer on a hot summer day -- it's hard to imagine a beer tasting better. Nothing wrong with trying though! And it seems the idea of beer cocktails is catching on. Try some of these trendy beer cocktails or some of the more classic variations of this entertaining staple.
http://lifestyle.sympatico.msn.ca/FoodandEntertaining/Wine/contentposting_spirits?newsitemid=2683173&feedname=TRANS_MKSOFA&show=False&number=5&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=False

The health benefits of white wine
http://www.besthealthmag.ca/eat-well/nutrition/the-health-benefits-of-white-wine
Good news for white wine lovers. New research shows that white wine is just as good for your heart as red—find out which are the best to drink. Move over, red. A study published in September in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry compared the antioxidant effects of resveratrol (from red) and tyrosol and hydroxytyrosol (from white) on rats. The results suggest that white wine is just as powerful as red in improving heart function and preventing artery blockage.

“We tested a variety of wines,” says Dipak K. Das, a professor at the University of Connecticut school of medicine, who led the study. “We found that white wines are rich in a type of antioxidant composition that is similarly present in olive oil.” But not all white wines pack the same antioxidant punch. Das has tested wines from all over the globe and recommends certain European white wines—those from Italy, France and Germany—as being rich in tyrosol and hydroxytyrosol. “In general, it can safely be said that some whites from Europe are as good as red wine from anywhere for heart health,” says Das. One thing hasn’t changed: Stick to a glass a day.

I have been so sceptical of the people that want my signature/vote that I have taken the time to contact many relevant politicians. I was and still am very worried about the view that politicians have on our impact on the environment. Frankly, not one of them had any negative comment. Their surprise to my questions of concern about the future of our hobby put me on the back foot. Not one politician had a problem with prospectors. Not even the green party. Maybe we are being tagged as miners at some level.
Not even the local rangers give a hoot about the odd prospector/detector operator. The government couldn't care less as to what we do as hobbyists.
Maybe we should be fighting for an exception from the mining act as prospectors/metal detector operators. We should be free to go wherever bush walkers are free to go including so called park land in all its forms. Penalties should apply for not back filling.

Go for it Brett, lets see how far you get with changing legislation
No matter what a polly says to you today, (in particular any "greeny") when it counts, you can depend on it that you cannot depend on his previous stance. Only a well supported organisation can get things done.
In the words of JFK: Ask not, what the PMVA can do for me, ask, what can I do for the PMVA.
Why don't you join and then stand for office? Then you really can see how much the PMVA does for us all.
I challenge you: Go and join up and get yourself on the executive. (I will even pay your first year membership)
Are you up to it??????

See you up them thar hills
Frank

Hi Beeper
I have no doubt that codan could repackage a 4500 as you mentioned.But they are the only game in town.Competion drives prices down and there is none.
Cheers Dig

Frank,
I have never tried to change legislation , I have simply questioned all the way to the top what I have read as speculation by people we are expected to trust within our hobby.
I am humbled by your offer. If I have read it correctly, you feel I should join the PMAV and be an advocate of our hobby. Your generous offer to fund the first years membership is appreciated. In the words of a funny bloke " I don't want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member"
Seriously, if 10 people here think I may be a good advocate for our hobby and Geoff Strang and his colleagues feel I may lend a voice, then I will give it a shot.
I will bet it doesn't happen.
Brett.

Brett,

I will cast a vote for you. Stand for the position of central branch rep as the current one we have has
been very lax in his duties. I think we have had two meetings since June of last year. Apparently he is
too busy pushing his own barrow.

Robert

Brett,
Regardless of whether you get 10/100 supporters the decision comes down to you. You personally have to have the fire in the belly and the will to succeed not because someone tells you to have a go.
Good luck

Peter

Brett it great to have a union behind you when you are in a fight with a governemt or multi national employer, same applies to the PMAV, strength in numbers,

G'Day Brett,Go to www.pmav.asn.au it might give your more understanding of what the PMAV are about .Cheers Bruce

Gid'day Brett...
Go on give it a go... if u are serious about protecting our rights then I will vote for u...
Ray

Hello Brett,
Good to see you have a good sense of humour.

If I have read it correctly, you feel I should join the PMAV and be an advocate of our hobby. Your generous offer to fund the first years membership is appreciated. In the words of a funny bloke " I don't want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member"

I believe that was Groucho Marx

Seriously, if 10 people here think I may be a good advocate for our hobby and Geoff Strang and his colleagues feel I may lend a voice, then I will give it a shot. I will bet it doesn't happen.

Looks like you will be joining up (please) thare is already quite a bit of ground swell support for you.
Nothing wrong with being a doubting Thomas. He (so the good book states) changed his mind once he was confronted with facts.
My offer stands.

See you up them thar hills
Frank

Frank,
I suspect that the people watching this type of post that contact one another behind the scenes have put a blanket ban on posting in this topic. Its not to difficult to see that the post changed and inadvertently I became the topic within a topic. I honestly do not think for one moment that the PMAV want me as a member yet alone an advocate of their plight.
I have always seen this pastime and people within it as two different entities. There is the people whom simply enjoy it and there is the people whom see it as a way of making money. I might upset a few of the PMAV if I go in with a don't care about the money approach.
Geoff Strang, will never invite me into the PMAV as anyone higher than a member, so this whole discussion in a little fruitless.
Brett.

Nightjar,
A fire in the belly is something that I do not lack. However I do like to direct it to where it is needed and where it will do some good.
A fire in the belly can quickly become an ulcer if its miss directed.
I started a business at the age of 19 that has become a company,and that took a fire in my belly, considering no one had started such an endeavour before that I could reflect upon.(the rest is private, please)
I don't mind putting my energy into something that I can see will return the effort in some form. However I will not sacrifice kissing my little girl good night to chase an argument that no one has taken the time to see an end to. The whole issue is perpetual as far as I can see and therefor there will be no resolution.
Brett.

Gdday fellas

Enough is enough. People have given their point of view so lets leave it at that. The role of the PMAV has been explained.

If you have anything further to add keep it to the topic.

Jeff