the swinging technique seems ridiculous

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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:17 am

Has anyone else ever thought that the swinging motion of a metal detector as you walk is inefficient when you look at the energy spent swinging side to side while walking ,versus , say walking at a steady pace just holding the coil on the ground as you walk without swinging . A DD coil or elliptical coil could be turned 90 degrees and i believe ground coverage for energy spent would be increased .
I know it would look retarded but then again there is no cool way to use a metal detector either Laughing

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Post  byronbinalong on Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:47 am

The swing is to cover more ground per step other wise you have go over the ground more ..... and I didnt know that the "swing" was a fashion or culture statement! Cool wouldnt matter what or how I swung twirled or even rotated the detector .... if it found gold thatway I would do it, then it comes into what different people wear What a Face many a remark about my pink,purple and yellow TUTU affraid affraid ...joking
The upshot of it IS ... thats how the machinery works at its best ... so be it
Cheers cheers
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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:49 am

bruiser wrote:Has anyone else ever thought that the swinging motion of a metal detector as you walk is inefficient when you look at the energy spent swinging side to side while walking ,versus , say walking at a steady pace just holding the coil on the ground as you walk without swinging . A DD coil or elliptical coil could be turned 90 degrees and i believe ground coverage for energy spent would be increased .
I know it would look retarded but then again there is no cool way to use a metal detector either Laughing


Gday

The aim of the exercise is to cover as much ground as possible, so without the swinging of the coil from side to side and just walking with the thing stuck out in front of you, I would think that you would not cover very much ground at all, may as well be wandering about the bush with a pointy stick Laughing

stayyerAU


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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:56 am

byronbinalong wrote:The swing is to cover more ground per step other wise you have go over the ground more .....
Cheers cheers

If thats the case then wouldn't it make more sence to swing a full rotation per step .

Anyway i was thinking about energy spent for ground coverage . not ground coverage for each step

i understand some of you may not be able to think outside of the square

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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:54 am

bruiser wrote:
byronbinalong wrote:The swing is to cover more ground per step other wise you have go over the ground more .....
Cheers cheers

If thats the case then wouldn't it make more sence to swing a full rotation per step .

Anyway i was thinking about energy spent for ground coverage . not ground coverage for each step

i understand some of you may not be able to think outside of the square


Gday

Doing a full rotation would just be plain silly, expending energy while using a detector is just as necessary as having it switched on, once again ground coverage is the key to finding gold, the more ground "effectively" covered increases the odds in your favour.

Also you can walk in straight lines using a mono coil, but if you do the same thing with a dd coil then you will not get much of anything unless you turn the coil sideways, if you dont do this then you would only be detecting a very narrow strip thats probably only going to be about a third of the width of the coil due to the dd coils signal shape, and of course a dd coil is designed to be swung from side to side, so ok now we are back to square one again.

And just for the record "thinking outside of the square" is what makes some detectorist more successful than others.

cheers

stayyerAU






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Post  collen on Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:29 am

i suppose its do whatever is easyist for you.

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Post  Nightjar on Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:46 am

bruiser wrote:Has anyone else ever thought that the swinging motion of a metal detector as you walk is inefficient when you look at the energy spent swinging side to side while walking ,versus , say walking at a steady pace just holding the coil on the ground as you walk without swinging . A DD coil or elliptical coil could be turned 90 degrees and i believe ground coverage for energy spent would be increased .
I know it would look retarded but then again there is no cool way to use a metal detector either Laughing

Each to their own Bruiser, will keep swinging here, "inside the square we are chaining," will think about the "outside square" when we are almost finished the inside.

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Post  Ayounomad on Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:23 am

One slow swing covering 10 coil diameters or walking up and down 10 times to cover same ground ..I know which one requires most energy ....It requires very little extra energy if your detector is set up and balanced correctly to swing the thing ...I think we all just walk with our coil to the ground when moving from point A to B just in case we walk over something but it is EXTREMELY inefficient as far as ground coverage is concerned and uses much more energy in total ..Thinking outside the square ???How bout just thinkin!! Razz ...cheers


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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:35 am

as u boys say---horses for courses.

I'm a swinger and its a lot more fun.
U never know who u might meet with each swing..

regards
Oneday69

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Post  Harb on Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:44 am

Wouldn't doing a full rotation cover the same ground twice, making it even more inefficient ?

To be honest If i were to lazy to swing the coil I would stay at home.

The only time I don't swing the coil is when dragging a sled behind the ATV.....
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Post  kon61 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:11 pm


G'day Bruiser.

The purpose of swinging a detector coil side to side is to be able not only to hear a target once passing over it,but also to confirm that you swung over a positive target signal and you weren't just hearing things.I personally leave the so called "straight push method" for when I've had a gutfull of scanning new or even old ground and returning back to the vehicle.What you have to realize is that,straight line scanning might seem appropriate for when covering ground looking for targets on or near the surface,but you'll find that you'll be covering very little ground for a target at depth,unless you overlap your swinging technique as well as direction of swing.Also,Its not a matter of whats comfortable and suits each individuals swing,for this so called comfort might be a flawed swing pattern also,regarding height or angle of coil to ground.The law of "Go Low and Go Slow" will always apply to the success of lobbing on to a target or not,but by not swinging a coil backwards and forwards,side to side,you'll have little chance of hearing or exposing faint hidden signals at depth.

Cheers guys kon61.
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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:37 pm

Ayounomad wrote:Thinking outside the square ???How bout just thinkin!! Razz ...cheers
Being the ideas man that i am i find this remark offensive . maybe a full 360 degree rotation of DD the coil , like have it spinning on the end of the shaft slowly will give the ground a much more thorough going over , even having the coil spinning as you walk , or a mono coil that spins in a tight figure 8 pattern to maximise the deepest point of the cone doing its job ... try doing that by hand ....as you walk ....and swing Very Happy

I must hang up blinds now

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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:29 pm

Yes if you are using one of those huge patch finder coils you would have to be superman to swing the B#*#*#D
But for normal coils you would have to swing it normaly for it to work properly only time I don't swing is in tight scrubby or rocky areas where you can't swing it properly. Just my 2 bobs worth. Very Happy good luck

Cheers

Mike. cheers

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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:17 pm

If it feels good, Do It Very Happy


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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:54 pm

bruiser wrote:
Ayounomad wrote:Thinking outside the square ???How bout just thinkin!! Razz ...cheers
Being the ideas man that i am i find this remark offensive . maybe a full 360 degree rotation of DD the coil , like have it spinning on the end of the shaft slowly will give the ground a much more thorough going over , even having the coil spinning as you walk , or a mono coil that spins in a tight figure 8 pattern to maximise the deepest point of the cone doing its job ... try doing that by hand ....as you walk ....and swing Very Happy

I must hang up blinds now
the problem would be you'll have to add more to the detector to make the coil spin around, that means more weight and you would be using about the same energy as if you was swing side to side... but you are thinking off something that others may be able to help with... so keep up the ideas as it's good to see..
cheers
stoppsy

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Post  Ayounomad on Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:43 pm

K I S S ....Keep It Simple stupid.....Ya gonna fling a bit , you're gonna get a bit flung back ..Might want to change name from Bruiser to Mr sensitive ...You are taking the piss with these ideas aren't you ??.Surely ....I know , how bout keeping dd coil still and running around in a circle , or , move coil a few inches left , then , a few inches right ..wammo ,same area covered ..... Arrow Arrow lol!


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Post  Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:30 pm

Hi All,

In Bruisers defence, what do you think happens when you drag a coil behind a Quad bike- no swingin goin on there!!!!

And, on dead flat ground and a lot of area to cover a 30x7 turned 90 deg on the mount would make the job a lot easier.

A coil is not carried by the arms, it is suspended off the shoulder with a bungy and if set up right would be less a burden on the user than swingin a 30x7 coil all day

My missus doesn,t swing a coil at all, she prods and pokes from all angles--- why?, less movin parts on the body, we ain't gettin any younger

This sheila got more gold than me and i swing a 17x11 religeously and all she swings(prods and pokes) always is an 8" coil

So, think outside the square or not!!!!

Ron

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Post  Nightjar on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:04 am

Ayounomad wrote:K I S S ....Keep It Simple stupid.....Ya gonna fling a bit , you're gonna get a bit flung back ..Might want to change name from Bruiser to Mr sensitive ...You are taking the piss with these ideas aren't you ??.Surely ....I know , how bout keeping dd coil still and running around in a circle , or , move coil a few inches left , then , a few inches right ..wammo ,same area covered ..... Arrow Arrow lol!

I'm with Ayounomad, (We should catch up P?)
Bruiser has dropped in to stir the pot.
Don't get sucked in fellas/ladies just ignore him and he'll disappear over the hill walking, not swinging, in his straight line.

Peter
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Post  All-AU on Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:12 am

If going along a straight line and hold the coil straight ahead of you, as you propose you miss out about 1,00m coverage, if not more compared to swinging. To cover that area you have to walk back and again forward. Simply taken you have to walk 3x the length to get the same coverage as by swinging.

I don’t know how that compares to your energy calculation or you just trolling here.
Cheers ALL-AU
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Post  Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:15 am

authere wrote:Hi All,

In Bruisers defence, what do you think happens when you drag a coil behind a Quad bike- no swingin goin on there!!!!

And, on dead flat ground and a lot of area to cover a 30x7 turned 90 deg on the mount would make the job a lot easier.

A coil is not carried by the arms, it is suspended off the shoulder with a bungy and if set up right would be less a burden on the user than swingin a 30x7 coil all day

My missus doesn,t swing a coil at all, she prods and pokes from all angles--- why?, less movin parts on the body, we ain't gettin any younger

This sheila got more gold than me and i swing a 17x11 religeously and all she swings(prods and pokes) always is an 8" coil

So, think outside the square or not!!!!

Ron


Gday Ron

Dragging a coil behind a quad bike cant really be considered in the same way as detecting by hand and on foot, where you only cover the ground by curtesy of your own two feet and the way you swing the coil from side to side.

When dragging behind a bike you cover the ground more quickly for sure but by no means more efficiently and really have to rely on blind luck to run over a decent piece that you will be able to hear, and for the most part can only cover the open ground but miss all the craggy bits and under bushes where lots of nuggets like to live.

I do the same as your missus with the small 8" coil, but generally in crappy broken or rubbly ground, gullies and such and the technique like you say is not so much of a swing as it is a poke and prod, and often it can combine some circling and figure eight type movements, its a little hard to explain but I sometimes refer to it a massaging the ground, when there are lots of small pieces in amoungst the rubble or rocks and under bushes its a technique that will cover a higher percentage of the ground, and get you more gold than purely swinging over the top of it all.

cheers

stayyerAU




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Post  Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:19 am

goldnomad , peter nightjar r its a valid point . ground coverage for ENERGY spent .

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Post  Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:44 am

G/Day Bruiser.

I see your point but I think that if you get into the physics of it all you will find that the energy expendure is the same for both situations.

If you have two cars C & D of equal power and fuel consumption and they both travel from Point A to Point B in a given time by driving in a straight line and each covers a set area of ground then each will use the same amount of power to complete the trip.
Then if car A does the same trip but this time zig zags along the way, covers the same area of road way and completes the trip in the same time as the first trip then the energy spent and the fuel used will be identical to the first trip.
It is only if more ground was covered or a faster speed was used or one car developed more power that more energy would be spent.
It is the same with the detectorist; If one sweeps and the other walks straight forward, both will use the same amount of energy to cover the same area of ground in equal times; It is only if one walks faster or sweeps faster will more energy be used. You cannot get energy for nothing. All things being equal, it takes a definate amount of energy to move an object a set distance in a set time.

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Post  deutran on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:30 pm

If your walking in a straight line with the coil in front of you and you hit a rock won't it result in a sommersault and most probably a broken coil and/or detector.
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Post  Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:38 pm

bruiser hi
i`ve been following this thread because i`m interested in these ideas from "outside the square"
if i am really being fair dinkum with my detecting i take about 4 seconds for one swing left to right and another 4 seconds right to left,but most of the time i probably swing at about three feet per second. so if you were going to detect at the same speed as my swing you would have to walk 3 feet per second or 180 feet per minute or 10800 feet per hour. about two miles per hour. if you detect for eight hours you are going to walk 16 miles per day. now if you incorperate your idea about turning around 360º whilst walking 16 miles per day i gotta tell you that is something i would really like to see Very Happy
cheers dave

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Post  Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:44 pm

I tried it today with The Bangles singing Walk like an Egyptian in my Ipod.. my detector stayed in a straight line and my body swung side to side Very Happy

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Post  Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:53 pm

Hi All,

Uh Oh,there's a crack forming.....damn, i'm smilin and it ain't a pretty sight at the moment as i've lost a front tooth( $6,500 to fix)

Ron

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Post  Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:40 pm

madtuna wrote:I tried it today with The Bangles singing Walk like an Egyptian in my Ipod.. my detector stayed in a straight line and my body swung side to side Very Happy

You clown hahaha, gives a new concept for the extendo hip stick's, coil on each end, boogy woogy whilst walking along until the red light flashes "A Target" pin pointing will be an issue Very Happy Very Happy

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Post  Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:55 pm

sounds like madtuna and someday have a bit too much time on their hands..
Livin next door to alan..

regards
oneday69

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Post  Guest on Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:03 am

Gees onday69, My psychological disorder, don't go tainting others! I'll lose my credibility? Too Late Sad Razz


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Post  Guest on Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:22 am

There are a couple of blokes who detect my local surf beach. They swing like they are trying to keep a Seagull away from a plate of hot chips.
There coils are a foot off the ground and they never overlap their swings. No wonder i never see them digging any targets.
I bet I would kill it there with my 4000.

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