banjo highbanker

Hi guys,

Finally got all the bits together for my banjo/highbanker using the plans supplied by James to the forum.
All comments welcome as i am a total newbie in this area of gold hunting.
Special thanks to James for sharing.(you may have helped create a monster)
Now i just need to figure out how to use it.

Staples

Nice job, you gotta be happy with that..
Did you eat all them chuppa chops?

Nah still going on the chuppa chups.
Tin held 900
Might need a bit of camo. paint

Staples

Hi staples 61 nice job mate. Did you put in a catch tray just under your top hopper, this way you can see if you are getting gold during the day without cleaning out your rifles all the time. The tray is removable and then you can pan of the contents. Also I would have put a few spray jet holes along the top stray bar as well, just to assist in the brake down of the materials. Otherwise a great looking job. You will have fun playing around the creeks with that. The kids love using it as well.
Wombat

Mate you have done a grand job making the Banjo. About the only suggestion I can make and that would be to crank up the water pressure to get the jets working much harder do not put spray holes in the top bar there is no need for them. Did you use 2 mm jetting holes or 1.5 mm holes? Please feel free to ask any question about the operation of the unit.

In the bottom two photos I was pumping at 100 meters.



1. Example of spray bar pattern.



2. Example of wash pattern.




Cheers
James 101

Staples this video will give you a better idea of what i mean. cheers

https://golddetecting.forumotion.net/t6708-banjo-spray-bars#60152

Unfortunately, the turbulence from the spray bar will most likely wash out most of the gold. Spray bars are usually best suited to large operations and you need to control the flow of water over the riffles. If you put too much pressure on the spray bar on a portable sluice, the rate of water flow is often too high. This tends to catch the gold (especially flat gold & fine gold) and drag it over the riffles rather than have the turbulence over the lip of the riffle catch it where there's less pressure. Hard to make an assessment without seeing how much water was flowing as well as the angle of the sluice and the specific angle (and height) of the riffles.

Unfortunately, the turbulence from the spray bar will most likely wash out most of the gold. I have never encountered that problem Spray bars are usually best suited to large operations and you need to control the flow of water over the riffles. {you do this by the angle of your unit} If you put too much pressure on the spray bar on a portable sluice, the rate of water flow is often too high. {volume not pressure that is why jetting size is so important} This tends to catch the gold (especially flat gold & fine gold) and drag it over the riffles rather than have the turbulence over the lip of the riffle catch it where there's less pressure. Hard to make an assessment without seeing how much water was flowing as well as the angle of the sluice and the specific angle (and height) of the riffles.{ True indeed have you ever seen one in operation??}

Guys,

Thanks for all the comments much appreciated.
I have put a catch tray under the hopper.
The spray bar holes are 1.5mm (figured I could make them 2mm if need be)
The riffles sit 1" high and 3" apart (picked this out of the Alaskan article posted by James).
They are tilted foreward at about 15 degrees.I made them out of 1'' angle and cut the front edge back to about 1/4".
I've sat the riffles on top of some cheap dirt catching door mat.
I was thinking about putting a plastic grill (like base of milk crate only smaller) between the riffles and the mat.
First run was a dry run in the true sense ,as I had used fire hose on the intake of the pump and it just collapsed in on itself.Solved this by getting some ag pipe from Bunnings and stuffing a small leader of fire hose over it and clamping.Second run (pictured ) just took to some diggings and had a play.
Found that the area behind the riffles semmed to fill up pretty quickly is this normal or should I be aiming to keep it clearer by increasing the angle of the banjo or increasing the water flow ?

nero_design wrote:Unfortunately, the turbulence from the spray bar will most likely wash out most of the gold. Spray bars are usually best suited to large operations and you need to control the flow of water over the riffles. If you put too much pressure on the spray bar on a portable sluice, the rate of water flow is often too high. This tends to catch the gold (especially flat gold & fine gold) and drag it over the riffles rather than have the turbulence over the lip of the riffle catch it where there's less pressure. Hard to make an assessment without seeing how much water was flowing as well as the angle of the sluice and the specific angle (and height) of the riffles.

Nero....With due respect to you & your knowledge of things to do with gold.....when it comes to James & banjo's.....dont teach your grandmother how to suck eggs.

JW

Kiwi, have not heard that expression for many a year.
But you are soooo right.

A highbanker is not a banjo. A Banjo is a type of sluicbox from the "rockerbox family" of sluiceboxes. It was nicknamed a "Banjo" on the goldfields of the 1800's because of the similarity of the water-ladel (used to scoop soil and water into it and over the riffles) to the musical instrument of the same name.

What you are using is a "two tiered sluice" from the highbanker family of sluices.

The only place for a Banjo sluice today would be a museum. They have to be kept at the water's edge and are exceptionally inefficient since the rocking action is side-to-side. Your Highbanker can be moved higher from the riverbed due to the pump and the build design.

The design of your hopper (as shown in videos you have posted in the past) requires extra effort to clear the hopper with a shovel. Another reason it is inefficient is that there's little gold adhering to rocks here that's can't be recovered by a normal sluice. Any gold lost by not adding spray bars is going to be made up for with the additional amount of material that can be run through the sluice over the amount potentially lost. Sluices are usually only 65-75% effective in recovering gold from the material run through it but adding spray bars does not enhance the recovery method significantly enough to warrant their use. VERY few have a 15% loss or less.

In a professional washplant with a two ton jig and a 14 foot long trommel, yes. They might then add a significant amount to the recovery but that's mining and is not permitted under the hobby. On one of your videos, you spent the entire time clearing rocks from the hopper with a shovel because the design does not allow automatic clearing. Imagine how much more gold might have been recovered if you were actually spending the "clearing time" shoveling fresh dirt into the sluice instead of clearing the rocks already jammed in it? Any lost gold that was adhering to the rocks would have been well and truly made up for with the gold in the fresh soil. I don't doubt that your sluice works and captures gold. But I don't see any benefits in the design and it's certainly not a Banjo.

The only problem I see with a sluice is when people attempt to capture every last bit of gold and waste time doing it.... over the method of recovering as much gold as possible by processing as much soil as possible in the same amount of time. If you have a very efficient sluice design that captures say 80% of the gold in the soil you run through it, then you probably want to run as much soil through it rather than slow down production just to capture another 5%.

/I've sold literally many hundreds of sluices since 2007 so yes, I've seen how they all work.

Here we go again

Hi there Nero, Yes technically you are exactly right.



But this 2011 & James has been making & using these highbanker/banjos.....probably when you were still in nappies & maybe even before you were a glint in your fathers eye. He christened them a modern day banjo so as to keep the banjo name alive & well & they have a large following. There is a huge group of people who have come to know these as a banjo/highbanker & are quite comfortable with that. I am actually gobsmacked that you havnt come across it before....come on....you have aye????.....
We live in such a PC world that I think it great that a spanner is thrown into the works every now & then to trip a few people up. Works every time.
It is just a terminology & I think it is great the name is kept alive. As I said...there are many out there that know these little homemade hIghbankers as a banjo. I do normally call them a highbanker/banjo. So now you know & you can call them what ever you like.

Happy hunting

JW

That's a Banjo sluice... couldn't find any drawings online myself last time I looked but that's it.

There's a few sluice makers and even a historian that are members of this forum who always bring the subject up when they bump into me. Like you, I don't mind if people want to add their own spin on things to keep an old name alive but there's a few out there who are pretty hostile on the subject, even today.

I'm just guessing here but I reckon the old timers would use the term "Playing the Banjo" as a euphemism for cradling (sluicing) for gold. It's also a euphemism for something else if you work in the primate section of any modern zoo!

Cheers

A highbanker is not a banjo. A Banjo is a type of sluicbox from the "rockerbox family" of sluiceboxes. It was nicknamed a "Banjo" on the goldfields of the 1800's because of the similarity of the water-ladel (used to scoop soil and water into it and over the riffles) to the musical instrument of the same name.
What you are using is a "two tiered sluice" from the highbanker family of sluices. {Sorry what i am using was based on the Queensland wet Jig}
The only place for a Banjo sluice today would be a museum. { or out on the goldfield} They have to be kept at the water's edge and are exceptionally inefficient since the rocking action is side-to-side. { are you thinking of a gold cradle?} Your Highbanker can be moved higher from the riverbed due to the pump and the build design.
The design of your hopper (as shown in videos you have posted in the past) requires extra effort to clear the hopper with a shovel. { How do you know if you have never used one?} Another reason it is inefficient is that there's little gold adhering to rocks here that's can't be recovered by a normal sluice. { I don’t understand this bit} Any gold lost by not adding spray bars is going to be made up for with the additional amount of material that can be run through the sluice over the amount potentially lost. Sluices are usually only 65-75% effective in recovering gold from the material run through it but adding spray bars does not enhance the recovery method significantly enough to warrant their use. VERY few have a 15% loss or less.

In a professional washplant with a two ton jig and a 14 foot long trommel, yes. They might then add a significant amount to the recovery but that's mining and is not permitted under the hobby. On one of your videos, you spent the entire time clearing rocks from the hopper with a shovel because the design does not allow automatic clearing. { True but that was real time footage cleaning 2 shovels of wash from the hopper} Imagine how much more gold might have been recovered if you were actually spending the "clearing time" shovelling fresh dirt into the sluice instead of clearing the rocks already jammed in it? { tell what other unit can do the same in the amount of time shown} Any lost gold that was adhering to the rocks would have been well and truly made up for with the gold in the fresh soil. I don't doubt that your sluice works and captures gold. But I don't see any benefits in the design and it's certainly not a Banjo. {Banjo as in name only}

The only problem I see with a sluice is when people attempt to capture every last bit of gold and waste time doing it.... over the method of recovering as much gold as possible by processing as much soil as possible in the same amount of time. If you have a very efficient sluice design that captures say 80% of the gold in the soil you run through it, then you probably want to run as much soil through it rather than slow down production just to capture another 5%.

/I've sold literally many hundreds of sluices since 2007 so yes, I've seen how they all work. { That may be so but you have never worked one like mine so how can you make the above statements without first using one???}

kiwijw wrote:Here we go again

Hi there Nero, Yes technically you are exactly right.



But this 2011 & James has been making & using these highbanker/banjos.....probably when you were still in nappies & maybe even before you were a glint in your fathers eye. He christened them a modern day banjo so as to keep the banjo name alive & well & they have a large following. There is a huge group of people who have come to know these as a banjo/highbanker & are quite comfortable with that. I am actually gobsmacked that you havnt come across it before....come on....you have aye????.....
We live in such a PC world that I think it great that a spanner is thrown into the works every now & then to trip a few people up. Works every time.
It is just a terminology & I think it is great the name is kept alive. As I said...there are many out there that know these little homemade hIghbankers as a banjo. I do normally call them a highbanker/banjo. So now you know & you can call them what ever you like.

Happy hunting

JW

That's it in a nut shell, cheers JW.

staples61 wrote:Guys,

Thanks for all the comments much appreciated.
I have put a catch tray under the hopper.
The spray bar holes are 1.5mm (figured I could make them 2mm if need be)
The riffles sit 1" high and 3" apart (picked this out of the Alaskan article posted by James).
They are tilted foreward at about 15 degrees.I made them out of 1'' angle and cut the front edge back to about 1/4".
I've sat the riffles on top of some cheap dirt catching door mat.
I was thinking about putting a plastic grill (like base of milk crate only smaller) between the riffles and the mat.
First run was a dry run in the true sense ,as I had used fire hose on the intake of the pump and it just collapsed in on itself.Solved this by getting some ag pipe from Bunnings and stuffing a small leader of fire hose over it and clamping.Second run (pictured ) just took to some diggings and had a play.
Found that the area behind the riffles semmed to fill up pretty quickly is this normal or should I be aiming to keep it clearer by increasing the angle of the banjo or increasing the water flow ?

Mate take your jetting out to 2 mm, the Riffles are about right. the plastic grill may be better off over the green matting. {Found that the area behind the riffles semmed to fill up pretty quickly is this normal} mate you may need to play around with the angles. cheers

G'gay James, You are so welcome mate & they work a bloody treat on just a sniff of gas. I still have & use the one you helped with those years ago. Gobsmacks me to the fine gold it saves.







Happy hunting

JW

Nero, We have a guy here in NZ who also gets anal about them being called a banjo. Boy was that a fun few posts back & forth. I wasnt having a dig at you & glad no offence was taken by you. Happy hunting.

JW

kiwijw wrote:G'gay James, You are so welcome mate & they work a bloody treat on just a sniff of gas. I still have & use the one you helped with those years ago. Gobsmacks me to the fine gold it saves.







Happy hunting

JW

Nero, We have a guy here in NZ who also gets anal about them being called a banjo. Boy was that a fun few posts back & forth. I wasnt having a dig at you & glad no offence was taken by you. Happy hunting.

JW

Yep they do mate and work very well indeed. cheers mate

Nero your post appears to be from a text book not from field experience.
Can you use a 'banjo' or 'high banker' when your pump fails? Yes. Then it becomes a 'Wet Jigger'

prospekta wrote:Nero your post appears to be from a text book not from field experience.
...

Those are my words and I spend quite a bit of my prospecting time with others using sluices.

This is what the banjo was based on, it was called a wet jigger and used back in the 1800’s there is a photo of one in a book called Gold Fossicking in Australia, and also in the 1934 miners guide put out by the NSW Mines Department which is no longer available.
If you want to pull correctness on what is what in regards to names Then I would say that a HighBanker should be called a Wet Jig seeing that the Wet Jig was invented long before the Highbanker. And that is a fact!

The Wet Jig

nero_design wrote:On one of your videos, you spent the entire time clearing rocks from the hopper with a shovel because the design does not allow automatic clearing. Imagine how much more gold might have been recovered if you were actually spending the "clearing time" shoveling fresh dirt into the sluice instead of clearing the rocks already jammed in it?

Can you tell me which Highbanker will do automatic clearing All the units i have seen in action the wash material / rocks must be removed by hand. So please bring me up to speed i find this very interesting.

G’day all!

One of the disadvantages to living so far away from you gents is the time difference. 14 or 15 hours behind you means that sometimes I can only read what happened while I was asleep.

At my age, sleep is important.

That being said, I read with great interest all that was written on this subject.

In fact I do have a “James 101 made Banjo” (or New Style Banjo, or Banjo Highbanker or whatever) and have found it to be a remarkably efficient recovery machine.

Now Nero, while you may well know the design features and claims for the many of the pieces of equipment he has sold in the past, I believe you may have listened to too many factory reps over the years on the subject of spray bars.

Based on my limited, 45 years, of experience (way over here where Gold, might be different), I find that I must disagree.

Spray bars do two things - they wash (and therefore release) occluded materials (like clay, sand and gold which adhere to the shoveled in gravel) and, in addition, they provide the now used water, to process the undersized material. Once the spray washes the gravel , it is just that -water. Spraying is just spraying - it isn't anything else. It doesn't impart some sort of different characteristic to the water - it is just what it is - waterflow.

Yes, in a frothing situation with other factors involved (like specifically introduced chemical agents) it could, somehow, affect the slurry - but in my humble experience that just isn't the case over here. I suspect 'Down-Under' it is also quite the same as in my experience.

I have heard in the past "If you recover the small, you have recovered it all". With the James 101 device (notice how I didn't say "Banjo") I have recovered a substantial amount of large to minute Gold. Good enough for me!

Nero, other than your attempts to 'correct' terminology, have you actually offered any evaluation of the """""James 101 Banjo"""? Other than your discrediting "Spray Bars" on your overall evaluation I actually don't see the phrase "I have found that ....."

Nero, I respectfully ask that you expand on your personal findings on small equipment spray bars - my position is that """""I have found through personal observation in large and small equipment operations that it is equally important and efficient in both circumstances.""""”

James 101 wrote:This is what the banjo was based on, it was called a wet jigger and used back in the 1800’s there is a photo of one in a book called Gold Fossicking in Australia, and also in the 1934 miners guide put out by the NSW Mines Department which is no longer available.
If you want to pull correctness on what is what in regards to names Then I would say that a HighBanker should be called a Wet Jig seeing that the Wet Jig was invented long before the Highbanker. And that is a fact!

The Wet Jig is probably the original name - the term "Banjo" was the colloquial nickname in Australia for the device.

A Highbanker sluice is thusly named because it used a water pump to push the water that feeds the sluicebox hopper. Since it can be moved up onto the banks to sluice for gold higher up and away from the river's water-level, I think it's fair to say that a Highbanker is probably not best described as a Wet Jig.

KAEOJ wrote:I have heard in the past "If you recover the small, you have recovered it all". With the James 101 device (notice how I didn't say "Banjo") I have recovered a substantial amount of large to minute Gold. Good enough for me!

Sounds to me like you're not aware of how waterflow affects flat gold with a large surface area. Getting small gold trapped in the carpet may not account for all the flat larger pieces that sailed over your riffles and out of your sluicebox. Are you running a controlled test to sample the material ejected from your sluice? I'll bet you're not if you only count the fine stuff and assume that's all there is.

If the gold in your location on the world is say 60% pure (not uncommon in the Americas), you can expect this to make a difference when comparing it to gold is Australia which is more often closer to 96% +/- pure... and therefore heavier. It's also going to have slightly different amounts of conductivity in relation to metal detectors with US gold being slightly easier to hear.

The demand for "spray bars" on certain types of small, portable sluices is driven mostly by the fact that people see others using them and assume (rightly or wrongly) that this is an essential part of the system. Any benefits of adding a set of spray bars is usually overwhelmed by the disadvantages. I say 'usually' because on larger operations, it may be beneficial to wash rocks... big ones... before they are run through other machinery to capture gold stuck in the dirt on their undersides. I'm not saying the spray bars won't result in the cature of more gold washed from dirt encrusted rocks... but I am saying they are unnecessary for the portable sluices because the amount of gold stuck to dirt on rocks is likely to come off - especially when the water cascading down the interior of a standard hopper is going to get most of that gold anyway.

Enjoy your spray bars.

Sounds to me like you're not aware of how water flow affects flat gold with a large surface area.

Sir, I do. I have worked with infinitely small and flat Gold in Nome, Alaska as well as many other areas across the world over the last 45 years. A small and flat particle of Alaskan Gold acts exactly like small and flat Australian Gold. Extremely small and flat Nome Gold makes Australian Gold seem like fishing weights.

Getting small gold trapped in the carpet may not account for all the flat larger pieces that sailed over your riffles and out of your sluice box. Are you running a controlled test to sample the material ejected from your sluice?

Sir, you seem to have fallen into the trap that only "scientific testing" can quantify and qualify recovery and loss percentages. I (and many others, worldwide) have certainly transcended that concept by test panning our (and many other's) tailings consistently for MANY years. Not just occasionally - but – constantly, constantly, constantly. Only from that position of experience I can say what I do. Do you have that level of experience? I would suspect not. I do not wish to "pump myself up and discredit you", but I am saying, quite firmly, that I have that level of experience.

I notice you reference to “carpet”. The fact of the matter is that since the introduction of the Le Trap technology many years ago “carpets” aren’t entirely correct any more. Today there are many other “carpetless” systems producing quite superior results. Not in very large systems, but rather in the small scale operations in which I, and many others, have substantial experience.

I'll bet you're not if you only count the fine stuff and assume that's all there is.

Do you remember all that “experience” stuff? That makes this a bit condescending, don’t you think?

If the gold in your location on the world is say 60% pure (not uncommon in the Americas), you can expect this to make a difference when comparing it to gold is Australia which is more often closer to 96% +/- pure... and therefore heavier. It's also going to have slightly different amounts of conductivity in relation to metal detectors with US gold being slightly easier to hear.

Sir, the Gold in Alaska is in the 85+% - 97+% purity range. This is a well documented range which totally discounts the other 80% of the rest of the United States as well as all of Canada and all of South America. The Specific Gravity range of ALASKAN Gold therefore is the same +- with Australia (not, "Weight", which is an incorrect term here).

"The Americas" is also a very poorly chosen descriptive term in this context.

And also - conductivity of Gold is a standard - Ground Mineralization in Australia is higher (which has absolutely no context here).

The demand for "spray bars" on certain types of small, portable sluices is driven mostly by the fact that people see others using them and assume (rightly or wrongly) that this is an essential part of the system. Any benefits of adding a set of spray bars is usually overwhelmed by the disadvantages. I say 'usually' because on larger operations, it may be beneficial to wash rocks... big ones... before they are run through other machinery to capture gold stuck in the dirt on their undersides. I'm not saying the spray bars won't result in the capture of more gold washed from dirt encrusted rocks... but I am saying they are unnecessary for the portable sluices because the amount of gold stuck to dirt on rocks is likely to come off - especially when the water cascading down the interior of a standard hopper is going to get most of that gold anyway.

Well, sir, you are certainly welcome to your opinions – although I believe they are inconsistent. Spray bars for only large rocks seems foolish, since LARGE rocks are universally excluded through the use of Grizzlys in large operations. ALL rocks that pass through Grizzlys in large operations, and ALL rocks that pass the shovel in smaller operations need washing ---in my opinion. Not to spray wash is to throw away much of the Gold recovery potential from the clay cemented Gold associated with them. Your choice to (it would seem) disregard that source of Gold is certainly your choice to make. I choose to not disregard that source of Gold.

Enjoy your spray bars.

I do, sir, and I recover almost ALL the gold in my ground.

nero_design wrote:

James 101 wrote:This is what the banjo was based on, it was called a wet jigger and used back in the 1800’s there is a photo of one in a book called Gold Fossicking in Australia, and also in the 1934 miners guide put out by the NSW Mines Department which is no longer available.
If you want to pull correctness on what is what in regards to names Then I would say that a HighBanker should be called a Wet Jig seeing that the Wet Jig was invented long before the Highbanker. And that is a fact!

The Wet Jig is probably the original name - the term "Banjo" was the colloquial nickname in Australia for the device.

A Highbanker sluice is thusly named because it used a water pump to push the water that feeds the sluicebox hopper. Since it can be moved up onto the banks to sluice for gold higher up and away from the river's water-level, I think it's fair to say that a Highbanker is probably not best described as a Wet Jig.

And if i was to add a set of "spray bars" to the Wet Jig. ???

Having researched the history of the diggings at Ophir and the Turon river,the correct name for a cradle was a 'Banjo'. Named after the handle which resembled the said instrument,and not refering to the crude cradle sluice at all. Thus the whole device was known as a Banjo.
As in" The prospect was deemed payable,so the party quicky assembled their Banjo`s"
" The storekeeper was known to have for purchase the finest of Banjos"
"Too soon the diggings were a blur of noise from all and sundry,and the echo of the banjos could be heard from early till past supper"

BOOTS

We've travelled per Joe Gardiner, a humping of our swag
In the country of the Gidgee and Belar.
We've swum the Di'mantina with our raiment in a bag,
And we've travelled per superior motor car,
But when we went to Germany we hadn't any choice,
No matter what our training or pursuits,
For they gave us no selection 'twixt a Ford or Rolls de Royce
So we did it in our good Australian boots.

They called us "mad Australians"; they couldn't understand
How officers and men could fraternise,
Thay said that we were "reckless", we were "wild, and out of hand",
With nothing great or sacred to our eyes.
But on one thing you could gamble, in the thickest of the fray,
Though they called us volunteers and raw recruits,
You could track us past the shell holes, and the tracks were all one way
Of the good Australian ammunition boots.

The Highlanders were next of kin, the Irish were a treat,
The Yankees knew it all and had to learn,
The Frenchmen kept it going, both in vict'ry and defeat,
Fighting grimly till the tide was on the turn.
And our army kept beside 'em, did its bit and took its chance,
And I hailed our newborn nation and its fruits,
As I listened to the clatter on the cobblestones of France
Of the good Australian military boots.