Pin point probes.

Hi guys,
From your experience(s), what pin point probes will positively indicate small nuggets of about 0.3 grams at about 2.5 cm or 1 inch distance?

What type would such a probe be, i.e. a PI, VLF or other type?

Are there any circuit diagrams to build such a unit yourself or perhaps are there any kits available?

I am after such a device which will hopefully make nugget recovery a bit easier.

Best regards
Frank

Hi Frank

Some of the blokes around the place are using the Garrett pro Pinpointer, they say they are good, I have not used one myself though. They are a small stand alone tool that you can carry in your backpack and run of their own battery, no need to change coils, so that is a good thing.

Here is some info on them. not sure who sells then in Aus

http://www.metaldetector.cc/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=847&gclid=CLvinK3unJkCFZUwpAodykzdCQ

Bob Buss (Goanna) does them for $235.

Watch one on this new-fangled youtube:

cheers - trashdigger

I like to use pinpointers and have found they speed up recovery times considerably. The main reason some people use them is to avoid "pick-strike" on a nugget. Many of us have either done this ourselves or know of someone else who did. I've been lucky myself but it doesn't take much to make a mistake. Pick-strike can ruin a nugget or shatter a specimen. I've seen a few for sale with greatly deflated prices and a footnote indicating this was the reason.

Either way, there's a few brands on the market and each has their own list of features. I own two different pinpointers: a Vibraprobe 570 from the USA which is waterproof, Pulse Induction and has no switches other than an internal mercury-switch to turn it on and off. I like this pinpointer and it's the most sensitive that I've used. Even more so than the newer Garrett Pro-Pointer. The Vibraprobe 570 can detect the chip in my cat whereas the Garrett Pro-Pointer cannot (it's a pretty small chip) but the reason for this may just be that the Vibraprobe works at a slightly greater distance of around 2.5 inches for some small targets compared to the Garrett Pro-Pointer (also Pulse Induction) which has a smaller range. A downside of this probe is that the Vibraprobe won't turn itself off until a minute or more has elapsed without a target being sensed. This means it's actively releasing a strong EMP field - something that even the VLF detectors can respond to if the coil is within a few feet of the probe when it's on. The PI detectors might find this really distracting since they respond even more actively to the Vibraprobe at a greater distance. For this reason, I prefer to use the Vibraprobe for underwater work and for use with a VLF detector.

Some air tests (which are usually less sensitive than a soil test when it comes to P.I. devices) gave me the following results for the Vibraprobe 570 - the measurements were in inches since this was originally written for American forum members:


Target: Gold Nugget #1 - weight: 0.22 grams - Probe Reaction @ 1/2 inch
Target: Gold Nugget #2 - weight: 0.85 grams - Probe Reaction @ 3/4 inch
Target: Gold Nugget #3 - weight: 4.67 grams - Probe Reaction @ 1 inch
Target: Gold Nugget #4 - weight: 5.55 grams - Probe Reaction @ 1.25 inches
Target: Gold Nugget #4 - weight: 14.70 grams - Probe Reaction @ 1.50 inches
Target: US Quarter coin - weight: 5.58 grams - Probe Reaction @ 1.50 inches
Target: Canadian 1c coin - weight: 2.22 grams - Probe Reaction @ 1.75 inches
Target: Small Knife Blade - weight: 52+ grams - Probe Reaction @ 2.5 inches

Maximum sensing for larger objects was 3 to 4 inches.



The Vibraprobe 570 - works via Pulse Induction - vibrates only - no buttons - waterproof - uses a 6V Battery and is super sensitive at the tip.


Now the Garrett Pro-Pointer, even though it is SLIGHTLY less sensitive than the Vibraprobe, is my favorite of the two. It's a little expensive by some people's standards and ranges in price from between AUD$235 to $285 depending on who's selling it and what the US dollar was when they had them shipped. It's about 2/3 the length of the Vibraprobe. The Garrett seems to come with a special kit at the moment which includes a device which looks just like a screwdriver with a rounded tip for retrieving coins and a slender hard-plastic shovel for cutting plugs in the grass. Whist these tools and their tote bag (also included) are obviously for coin hunting, I LOVE the slender shovel for both retrieving fine gold trapped in the fine silt between rocks on river beds when panning and for a general sand-scoop when nugget hunting. The inflexible plastic makes light work of some of the harder soils. I then run the tip of the pinpointer along the scoop of dirt to find my targets. I've dropped the Garrett Pro-Poiner directly nose-first onto hard rock without incident (twice) so it's built well. I'm not sure if it's waterproof but it appears to be well sealed and has a unique method of battery terminal connection. I've found the Garrett will trigger a response from the GPX detectors when carried on the belt and I now carry mine on the upper clasp strap of the battery harness - on my chest. If you try to holster the unit when it's still switched on, there's metal in the sheath/pouch and this reminds you rather quickly to turn it off.

The reason I like the Garrett more than the Vibraprobe is because it's smaller and less cumbersome. It's nearly as sensitive as the other pinpointer but not quite. Especially with sub gram nuggets of 0.33 grams or less. Using a vibrate-only probe in very hot weather means you're trying to feel the vibration and often it's just a quick jolt since the probe tip is moving, hence I like to hear an audible beep when I'm overheated or tired. There's a "sifting blade" which is an extrusion of the plastic case running the length of the probe stem. This is apparently to flatten soil when sifting for targets in loose sand but seems fairly useless otherwise. The probe is apparently sensitive along the length of this "sifting blade".

Now something worth noting with the Vibraprobe is that with my experiments, each individual probe varied slightly in its sensitivity. Another factor worth considering is that the Garrett Pro-Pointer seems to adjust it's own sensitivity when turned on near other nearby metal targets. What this means is that the sensitivity was slightly less if turned on in the presence of other metal objects ...whereas if switched on away from anything metal, there seems to be a slightly more sensitive session of operation until the unit is switched off. I'm only talking about a half centimeter or so. Not noticeable otherwise.



The Garrett Pro-Pointer - works via Pulse Induction - vibrates & beeps - one watersealed button - water resistant - uses a 6V Battery and is sensitive along the length of the probe tip.


There's a few seconds of me using the Garrett pinpointer on YouTube HERE - at about the 2minute mark.

I still keep my Vibraprobe because I like to use it underwater. As for the Garrett (and you'll probably not like this reason), I just find the way it beeps to be of interest... The beeps become faster and more frantic as the probe stem approaches a target. It WILL respond to some rarer "saturated" types of ironstone but this is quite the exception. It easily isolates those .22 caliber slugs and shells that plague us on the Goldfields and THAT speeds up recovery speeds and almost makes you forget about the useless digging for junk rather than loathe it outright.

The Garrett Pro-Pointer was able to sense a 1.2 ounce nugget at exactly 5cm if the broad side of the nugget is presented.
A 0.80gram nugget triggers a response at exactly 1.4cm (14mm) if the broad side of the nugget is presented.
A 0.32gram nugget triggers a response at exactly 1.0cm (10mm) if the broad side of the nugget is presented.

I was digging in an old creek system recently when I found a pesky .22 caliber shell jammed between the cracks of the bedrock. As I was about to leave, I swept the pinpointer probe along the muddy crevice (using it to push the mud along) and found a 1.5 ounce nugget embedded deep between two rock slabs protruding. It was about a foot from the .22 caliber shell but I hadn't been able to bring the coil into play on that section of the protruding rock. Was a good day since I'd retrieved another 5 nuggets nearby with the same pinpointer in under 50 minutes.



Cheers,


Marco

G'day Nero - good write up, very enjoyable read.

I am almost tempted to look out for one of these probes sometime to have a play.

Just out of interest, it seeems the sensitivity and size figures you mentioned suggest it is more suited to finding the nugget in your pile once its out of the hole rather than finding what side of the partially dug hole its still in.

I normally retrieve my targets from my dug pile with a rare earth magnet on the end of my pick. Hence my username.

cheers - trashdigger

Hi there Trashdigger!
These pinpointers are designed to be pushed into the hole and moved around to see where the target is located. If it's close to the target, they probe will buzz, beep or both. The response becomes more intense the closer you get to the target although the "depth" is nothing like the strength your coil will offer. If I am digging and feel I am close to the target (based on coil response), I place the probe into the hole I'm digging and poke it around to see if the target triggers a response. If not, then I keep digging and scanning the hole with my coil.

As you would certainly know by now, most targets will often look exactly the same as the soil surrounding them. A nugget or even a nail will look just like the dirt around it. So many times I have dug up a target and not know what it was or even where it was in the extracted soil... until a probe was used to pinpoint it. But if you start to dig a target, these probes are handy to see if you are within a few centimeters of the embedded nugget before your pick cuts into it. I don't think Pinpointer Probes are essential but they really make light work of trying to figure where your target might be in your hole or even whether you have dug deep enough or not. A lot of people switch their DD coil to Mono to pinpoint with the edge and those with monoloop coils do this anyway. But these things are just tools that make the job a little less frustrating.

Cheers,

Marco

Thanks all,
All information supplied is very pertinant and informative for a new chum.
I thank you all for your help.
Methinks, I will go with the Garrett, mainly due to ease of handling (as I am at the best of times a lazy detectorist), or maybe I should try the "Ranger Tell"

But in the meantime, since I like to play with electronics, I'll try some of my home grown ideas for
a cheap alternative to the "Garrett Pro Pointer". I am using "Gary's" PI presently, but it's a bit unstable. I will need to do something with the coil, not to sure, what, though. Maybe using a ferrite core to keep the EM magnetic field closer bundled may do the trick. I'll let you know what eventuates.
See you up them thar hills,
Best regards
Frank

I have just bought a Pistol Probe from the States from all accounts its a great probe but it cost a motza. $175 yank dollars plus $45 for postage, very fast delivery though. I haven't actually seen it yet as it was sent to a friends place and I have yet to pick it up. He tried it and reckons its a great bit of gear, very sensitive to small gold, half gram at about 2 inches, but will pick up a bigger nugget, 10 cent piece size, at several inches. Can't wait to try it out in the West this year. If the darn things were cheaper I reckon they'd sell 'em by the truck load.

Cheers, Jim

Hi Frank & all,
Jim is spot on.....easily the best pinpointer on the market is the Pistol Probe by Detectorpro, it outperforms the vibra probe by approx 50%. Expensive but worth it especially when digging big holes or banging away in the WA calcrete

Only one IB pinpointer is worth looking at, the Tesoro one. Hard to find these days
but damn sensitive and goes about 3" on a coin. It can find a .1gm bit of gold at perhaps 2cm. Best of all....it has a manual ground balance and can be used for detecting bedrock cracks in creeks! I have looked at the Garrett, V4, Bullseye etc and all of them are crap.....very poor detecting distance. Vibra probe is OK but Pistol Probe is much better. Your choice of these 3 would be the best selection. Frank, I have sent you a PM. Cheers, Dwt

Last year I bought a Treasure Mate pinpointer from the States and because I was not happy with the performance, I just purchased a detectorPro Pistolprobe.

Both units find my dog's micro chip , but neither seems to find my 1 gm test nugget at 2cm. Basicaly, I think the whole lot of them are as much good as a ........................

Disappointed,

Jigalong

i use an old garret groundhog with a small 3" coil about as big as the palm in your hand. it's deadly on fishing out those small nuggets. i used to use it all the time before the newer detectors came on the market. i put it in my pack and only use it when necessary.
it's a pain when you are digging and your coil is too big to pinpoint a target or you have to dig the hole wider. as i've had a knee replacement i can't kneel down and it makes it difficult getting to the hole. saves a lot of time and frustration i tell you !
another thing i use to make it easier is a small brush and pan. when hunting for those small bit and you just can't quite locate, i just brush it up in my small plastic pan and pour it into my hand and swing the detector over it. saves the nails and finger tips ! i got mine in an auto shop for about $5 or so. i think they are used for brushing up the inside of cars and small areas.
cheers