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Gpz 7000 Ferrite

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Post  charliec Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:15 am

Morrning All ,
                  A quick question on the Ferrite . I've just got the Gpz7000 a couple of weeks ago . I was wrapping the ferrite in bubble wrap and yes I dropped it on the tiles   Embarassed  Evil or Very Mad  . It broke in 4 pieces , I put it back together with super glue . Would it be alright to keep as a spare ?.

 Cheers Charlie

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Post  adrian ss Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:09 pm

Probably not. The electrical conductivity has been completely altered at the break points and the super glue is non conductive so it will present a different / weaker mineral effect to the detector.  But what the hell! give it a try and see what happens.


Last edited by adrian ss on Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Kon61gold Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:42 pm

G'day charliec

As Adrian states, being a break of several pieces, would most likely change the internal overall characteristics/application or frequency range of the ferrite, critical for the proper ground balancing of the GPZ 7000.
This is why Minelab highly recommend buying a genuine aftermarket Minelab replacement ferrite (& not just any other similar looking ferrite) which might not have the same ferrite composition & or give out the same or similar frequency characteristics, specifically suited for the proper ground balancing of the GPZ 7000.

Cheers Kon T25
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Post  PeterInSa Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:04 pm

I kept my original ferrite in a Bum Bag and after a clean out I misplaced it.

When I purchased a Double D Z cover from Nenad below the cover came with a zip and thats where I keep my Ferrite replacement. I detect Left handed, dig with the RH ( long Handle pick) these covers can be purchased with the Zip on the left side, but must be asked for.

http://phasetechnical.com.au/product/dd-gpz7000-canvas-cover-set/

Re Ferrite use, some good info here, especially, JP’s comment Feb 6.
https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/11745-gpz-wont-ground-balance-with-ferrite-solutions/page/2/#comments

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Post  charliec Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Thanks for the replies . I have got a new ferrite . Might buy a spare one to keep in the box of tricks incase I have a repeat .

Thank Yous     Charlie

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Post  charliec Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:30 pm

Hi PeterInSa ,
                   Yes I have got the DD covers & have copied JP's ground balance with ferrite off that link .

Cheers Charlie

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Post  Reg Wilson Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:37 pm

I fear that some of you blokes do not fully understand the correct use of the ferret. For a start it needs to be kept at a constant temperature, and it is recommended that to maintain that temperature that it be stored between the cheeks of the buttocks until it is required for an accurate ground balance. After removing it from its storage position it needs to be placed on a little pile of kangaroo dung on its edge aligned north and south. Now, before it loses its critical temperature, one must do a little 'octopus' dance in a clockwise circular motion around the ferret while reciting "nuggy nuggy come to me". Three rotations should be adequate unless the ground is very mineralized, where an extra rotation or two may be necessary. Don't forget to wave the coil in a figure eight motion as you shuffle around the ferret.
An extra advantage to this recommended procedure can be gained by a smoking ceremony (cannabis) and a sacrificing of a virgin to the great God of nuggets. (Virgins in the goldfields can be difficult to find)
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Post  moredeep Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:40 pm

I needed a giggle Laughing


cheers   moredeep
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Post  rockhunter62 Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:43 pm

Would it be better to encapsulate the ferite ring in 2 pak resin like a small hockey puk? I couldn't see the resin effecting the ground balance procedure and would be protected in case one has too many beers before handling it.

I can't even remember where mine is since I first turned my 7000 on.

Cheers

Doug
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Post  AraratGold Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:10 pm

Personally, I don't use the damn thing !

Tried it numerous times, including here in WA, but just could not see any improvement from it, despite the assertions that it does make a difference !

Rick
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Post  Kon61gold Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:39 pm

Fellas, most GPZ users would all know by now, that the GPZ 7000 can be ground balanced or used without the use of the "ferret" (as Reg puts it Laughing ) but, we are not the Minelab GPZ 7000 design engineers.
The way I see it, if Minelab recommend the use of a specific composition type/make ferrite ring, when ground balancing the GPZ 7000, then it must be for some reason or serve some purpose, no? What would be the purpose of recommending a "ferrite" ground balancing procedure, if the use of the ferrite, served no purpose at all?

Cheers Kon. Q11 T25
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Post  AraratGold Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:45 pm

Kon61gold wrote:Fellas, most GPZ users would all know by now, that the GPZ 7000 can be ground balanced or used without the use of the "ferret" (as Reg puts it Laughing ) but, we are not the Minelab GPZ 7000 design engineers.
The way I see it, if Minelab recommend the use of a specific composition type/make ferrite ring, when ground balancing the GPZ 7000, then it must be for some reason or serve some purpose, no? What would be the purpose of recommending a "ferrite" ground balancing procedure, if the use of the ferrite, served no purpose at all?

Cheers Kon. Q11 T25

Kon,

I would happily use it IF I could see an improvement, but I don't.

As you say, the engineers reckon it works, but for us mere mortals on the front line, well, not so !

Rick
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Post  Reg Wilson Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:40 pm

I think you will find that it was introduced as a means of rectifying the problems associated with the odd NQR 7000 in the first batch, as it was introduced after the release of the GPZ. A number of GPZs were dodgy or downright unusable from new. Some of these less than perfect 7000s could be tamed by use of the ferret, and some with the aid of the first software' update', and others still were irredeemably kaput, forcing ML to reluctantly replace.
I was lucky, and my GPZ was fine from the start, but some of my mates got faulty ones which nearly drove them to drink. (a good excuse) I picked up a ferret just to see if it made any difference, but like Rick, I could not see any change to ground balancing even after the octopus dance.
Undoubtedly the world's greatest GPZ exponent, and ace prospector will jump to the ferret's defence, as will the whole international ferret appreciation society, but from what I could see it was simply a Bandaid.
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Post  davsgold Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:23 pm

Reg Wilson wrote:I fear that some of you blokes do not fully understand the correct use of the ferret. For a start it needs to be kept at a constant temperature, and it is recommended that to maintain that temperature that it be stored between the cheeks of the buttocks until it is required for an accurate ground balance. After removing it from its storage position it needs to be placed on a little pile of kangaroo dung on its edge aligned north and south. Now, before it loses its critical temperature, one must do a little 'octopus' dance in a clockwise circular motion around the ferret while reciting "nuggy nuggy come to me". Three rotations should be adequate unless the ground is very mineralized, where an extra rotation or two may be necessary. Don't forget to wave the coil in a figure eight motion as you shuffle around the ferret.
An extra advantage to this recommended procedure can be gained by a smoking ceremony (cannabis) and a sacrificing of a virgin to the great God of nuggets. (Virgins in the goldfields can be difficult to find)

Reg, Reg, I am afraid you have it all wrong my friend, that way of using the ferret is totally "outdated" no pun intended Very Happy

The best and most advanced ferret procedure, which Minelab have NOT put out a white or green or any other colour paper is to have the ferret on a stick or plastic conduit and have the GPZ with coil raised to waist height with coil parallel to the ground and using the quick track button held in run the ferret on the stick over the top of the coil, god's honest truth this is the most advanced method for getting the "X" balance correct.

cheers dave
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Post  PeterInSa Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:50 pm

Dave, I use the technique explained in JP's Thread of March 20 below:

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/12032-jp%E2%80%99s-audio-visual-gold-thread/page/5/#comments

I am not a big finder like JP, Araratgold, or Reg, so any improvement in my technique helps, although your method seem to me "its Tongue in cheek" akin to witchcraft.

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Post  Kon61gold Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:10 pm

Gents, its to close to Christmas for a tit for tat, word for word slinging match, on whether one believes the use of the ferrite ring during the ground balancing procedure of the 7000 makes a difference or not. I say each to their own method & what ever feels more reassuring to the individual, but lets try not going overboard with any unnecessary/uncalled for comments. Shocked

Cheers Kon. Q11 T25
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Post  peterinaust Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:56 pm

I balance the way you describe Dave. But JP's vid's are different again! confusing!!

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Post  Reg Wilson Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:59 pm

Peter, mate, I know you are trying to be helpful, but I can't access that link as I have been banned. Of course it's witchcraft. Even the folk that I may not necessarily get on with agree that the ferret is a crock. If you've been in the game as long as I have you know that if it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck it is most likely..........etc.
Kon, I realize you are trying to keep peace, but silly rubbish should be called out by them who have the figures on the board.
Does anyone remember when Peter Brock lost the plot and sang the praises of some gadget that was supposed to be a wonder of engine performance improvement, but was proven to be a fake with no scientific factuality? Well the ferret is in the same category.
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Post  davsgold Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:16 pm

Kon61gold wrote:Gents, its to close to Christmas for a tit for tat, word for word slinging match, on whether one believes the use of the ferrite ring during the ground balancing procedure of the 7000 makes a difference or not. I say each to their own method & what ever feels more reassuring to the individual, but lets try not going overboard with any unnecessary/uncalled for comments. Shocked

Cheers Kon. Q11 T25

Kon i was not having a go at anyone, I was trying light heartedly to lighten up the subject on the ferrite X balance Very Happy

PeterInSa wrote:Dave, I use the technique explained in JP's Thread of March 20 below:

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/12032-jp%E2%80%99s-audio-visual-gold-thread/page/5/#comments

I am not a big finder like JP, Araratgold, or Reg, so any improvement in my technique helps, although your method seem to me "its Tongue in cheek" akin to witchcraft.

the way JP does it in the link in your post is not the way he shows his customers on training sessions, the conduit on the ground with the ferrite attached yes, but the coil is at waist height and the ferrite applied while the coil is in mid air, by using the ferrite on the conduit.

And what I was alluding in my post above was if this is the best method for X balance then why is Minelab either not been told or not bothered to put out a revised method for all to use or not use at all. Because there are plenty that never ever use the ferrite anyway.

Believe it or not, like I said the method used was as I described.

cheers dave
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Post  Kon61gold Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:43 pm

I know you weren't Dave & I certainly don't disagree with what you are saying Reg, but I said what I said, in the hope that this subject not deteriorate to something more volatile.  
It is unfortunate that in this day & age, lies & deceit have all but overcome the truth. Sad

Cheers Kon. santa
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Post  PeterInSa Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:58 pm

Peterinaust, re Dave's method... Its the first I have heard about it, where did you get your info from?

Do you carry the conduit with you when you detect?


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Post  Alan WA Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:49 am

And leave the quick track trigger alone.
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Post  Jonathan Porter Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:39 am

Kon I appreciate your trying to keep these things civil but constantly allowing these guys to continue with this type of behaviour is why I rarely post here anymore and I’m sure others too. It’s claimed as being innocent but anyone reading this thread knows its not.

RE to Ferrite balance, the stick was just a means of being able to reach the coil at a standing position with the coil held flat in the air, I used this method because the detector only sees the Ferrite and nothing else using this method when the Quick-Trak button is triggered, the use of Semi-Auto allows the coil to be pumped once down on the ground again to achieve a regular G balance. In some situations the ground can impact the X balance when the two are combined, hence holding the coil in the air away from the ground. I no longer supply nor offer the Ferrite assist with GPZ purchases because as this thread shows people struggle understanding the concept and the assist was just adding too much complexity with only a small amount of overall advantage to a new chum. Some describing the method in detail here are breaching promises made to not discuss.

The reason X coil users do not use the Ferrite is because every X coil I have used bar a couple will NOT balance out the Ferrite properly, hence the constant derision and barely veiled ridicule, it’s much easier to place the head in the sand and disparage the ferrite’s use and those whose advocate it than admit the coils do not balance properly.

I will say this again for readers who do not know the importance of X balancing, if the coil makes a noise when passed over the Ferrite the detector will make a noise on X signal in the ground, the X signal blends with regular ground noises but is elevating your overall ground signal potentially masking targets at depth. There is a calibration menu option in the detector for a reason so you can balance out or calibrate out the response created when the coil is waved over the Ferrite. The calibration is directly proportional to the temperature of the control box electronics, if the calibration is done correctly then the detector will not add any X signal to the audio thus the operator has a smoother running machine. If a coil that is used continues to make a signal on the Ferrite no matter how much you try to balance it out, that coil will for sure be generating X signal which will be elevating the overall ground noise and at the same time the G balance will be trying to compensate exacerbating the problem.

If X balancing wasn’t important then it would not be in the menu and the Ferrite would not be supplied, if you struggle to understand or comprehend the procedure then I strongly suggest you detect in Auto mode and let the detector decide for you, just be aware there is a lot of ground types in Australia that throw the X balance to skulduggery and back in Auto mode, namely saturable ground and Conductive (salt) ground. If you are using an X coil the detector will be constantly struggling to maintain stability in those types of ground, if no X signal is present (very few places in Australia), then all is good.

JP

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Post  adrian ss Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:29 am

Am not really sure exactly what the fuss is in regard to the minelab ferrite Ring (Not ferret)....Yeah, yeah I know I know ! Ya use it to help "Ferret" out the gold.

Ferrite is:
A ceramic compound consisting of a mixed oxide of iron and one or more other metals which has ferromagnetic properties and is used in high-frequency electrical components such as aerials.
In Metalurgy it is
a form of pure iron with a body-centred cubic crystal structure, occurring in low-carbon steel.
Basically it is rust with a few other metals added.

Ferrite beads and cores are used in equipment design to suppress and/or dissipate high frequency noise levels caused by electromagnetic devices. Ferrite components are used to attenuate EMI and can be extremely effective.

The iron mineral test piece that I made for myself back in the late 70's I think it was,  was for the sole purpose of calibrating the disc mode of my VLF discriminators to a point where rocks of very low and higher gold content would produce a positive tone and anything with iron mineral content below or above that level would drive the threshold down. If there was no response then the rock speci either had no metal content or it was the same as the test piece concentration. This enabled the detector to be used to test individual rock species for metal or mineral content above or below the test piece level and it works very well.

Some ferrite's can be magnetic like a fridge magnet or they can be non magnetic. I have not seen a Minelab ferrite and I do not know if they have any magnetic effect on the 7000 coils or not and I do not know exactly what purpose they serv with a PI machine, however I can imagine that it would enable the detector timings to be set up in a way that would make the detector ignore most iron mineralisation and to respond well to other metals and gold.

Because most of our gold fields have a wide range and density of iron minerals, it could be that the ferrite ring settings might not always be the best choice for a particular area. So if it works in your area then that is fine, if it has no effect then it does not matter, if it makes things worse then don't use it in that particular area of mineralisation. Very Happy


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Post  peterinaust Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:04 am

PeterInSa wrote:Peterinaust, re Dave's method... Its the first I have heard about it, where did you get your info from?

Do you carry the conduit with you when you detect?


Not sure now where I got the information, but it seems to work. No I don't carry the conduit around with me, haven't got a means to carry it. I go to the same area year after year, so balance once and that's it.

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Post  Reg Wilson Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:50 am

Well, that has been very instructive. Seems I've been doing the octopus dance all wrong! Left out the conduit, and probably should should have gone anticlockwise around the ferret. I think there's a lesson to be learned here. The smoking ceremony should only be undertaken after the octopus dance, to avoid a state of mental confusion.
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Post  adrian ss Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:08 am

Ya should have been playing the didg Reg, It connects you and yer tecta to the land and makes you one with nature. that is the heart of the entire ferrite tuning process. and of course the figure 8 sweep. Although T31 helps a bit .


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Post  Kon61gold Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:38 pm

Each member on here has had a go at explaining the reasons as to the use/purpose/or benefits the ferrite ring may or may not have, during the ground balancing procedure of the GPZ 7000.  
Gents, take note, that management constantly strives towards keeping this forum running in a respective, civil manner, in the hope of keeping the peace between all parties concerned, unfortunately this is no easy task. Where a member hears it from another, I hear it from the many.
As to the use of the ferrite ring & the effects it has on the ground balancing procedure of the GPZ 7000 is fully explained in detail by JP, as well as Minelab manufacturing themselves.
Anyone who believes the ferrite serves little or no purpose & prefers not to use it during the initial ground balancing procedure of the GPZ 7000, or when changing from one gold mode or coil to the next, is their prerogative.
Now regardless of what's been said above, I know each member will continue to do what each believes is right for them, so could we please, lets leave it at that.

Cheers & Merry Christmas to all Q11  Kon. santa
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Post  AraratGold Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:59 pm

Jonathan Porter wrote:

The reason X coil users do not use the Ferrite is because every X coil I have used bar a couple will NOT balance out the Ferrite properly, hence the constant derision and barely veiled ridicule, it’s much easier to place the head in the sand and disparage the ferrite’s use and those whose advocate it than admit the coils do not balance properly.  
JP


JP,

With respect, I WAS NOT using the ferrite ring long before the X Coils came along. It made no noticeable difference in Vic or in WA to the performance or otherwise of the standard coil, and I am not the only one to find this. It has also made no noticable difference with the X coils either.

BTW, everywhere I have used the X Coils they run smoother, and perform better than the " in spec " Minelab coil ( which I still have but don't bother using anymore ), and I find that I am able to use Normal in more places with the X Coil than the standard.

Once again, from you, a not so thinly veiled swipe at the " out of spec " and " faulty " X Coils !

Rick


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Post  adrian ss Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:49 pm

Sorry Kon.
My last comment was meant as a light hearted dig at Reg and his comments.....Which I will admit  gave me a bit of a chuckle to my interpretation of the post.  Smile
As far as the ferrite mineral test piece that I made is concerned, all I can say is that it did what it was designed to do.
I don'y have a ML ferrite so I am not qualified to to make any specific functionality  comments regards its performance with the 7000.
But with a bit of experimentation it is possible to make your own.....But why bother to do that? They are not expensive.


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