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Post  adrian ss on Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:29 pm

Here is a program that will help you work out the effects of  various size  meteor impacts on the earth.
https://impact.ese.ic.ac.uk/ImpactEarth/ImpactEffects/

If you are a meteor/ asteroid  tracker and you have your eyes on a biggy heading your way you will be able to find out what the impact effects will be. affraid
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Post  moredeep on Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:10 pm

scary stuff,I just wiped out an area the size of Tassie,yikes What a Face affraid


Cheers moredeep
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Post  joe82 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:10 am

does anyone no anyone who buys em ??????

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Post  moredeep on Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:47 am

Flick through some gem and treasure mags and look for "gold buyer' Anthony G Fraser.
He may not buy but could point you in the right direction.

Cheers moredeep
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Post  Nightjar on Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:33 am

Meteorites found in Western Australia are held under a statutory obligation laid down in Section 45 of the Museum Act (1969 as amended in 1973), whereby meteorites from Western Australia belong to the State, and ownership is vested in the Trustees of the Western Australian Museum.
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Post  adrian ss on Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:28 pm

BEWAAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAA! Oh my little sides hurt from laughing.  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!
     No way would that claim to fame/sole ownership  hold up in a legal court of law.
What are they afraid of? Do they think that a privateer might beat them to the punch in discovering life in outer space and so lets create a law that makes all meteorites in WA belong to WA Museum.
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Post  moredeep on Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:54 pm

yes I think it would be a case of; I found it on the other side of the fence officer Rolling Eyes


cheers moredeep
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Post  mogy on Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:07 pm

Oh you lucky sods  !    The Crown in the UK  claims to own all the gold in the ground here !

Not bothered about heavenly bodies though Shocked

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Post  joe82 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:54 pm

moredeep wrote:Flick through some gem and treasure mags and look for "gold buyer' Anthony G Fraser.
He may not buy but could point you in the right direction.

Cheers  moredeep
cheers mate may have to look him up

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Post  Nightjar on Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:15 pm

adrian ss wrote:BEWAAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAA! Oh my little sides hurt from laughing.  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!
     No way would that claim to fame/sole ownership  hold up in a legal court of law.
What are they afraid of? Do they think that a privateer might beat them to the punch in discovering life in outer space and so lets create a law that makes all meteorites in WA belong to WA Museum.

You can laugh all you like Adrian, the law is the law, if you wish to flout it so be it? Come down off your high horse and research the penalty you could be faced with.
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Post  adrian ss on Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:34 pm

Am not sure how a sole earth bound organisation can make a claim of ownership of something that was created in the outer reaches of the solar system or possibly the galaxy, that crashed on earth from likely many light years from here and probably was created long before humans ever existed. No doubt humans are a strange lot that lives by a system of violence and bluff.
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Post  joe82 on Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:16 am

im pretty sure queensland is the only (or one of) state that lets you keep them????? mabie the NT?????

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Post  adrian ss on Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:35 am

Difficult to say for 100% certain where a particular meteorite came from. Meteorites of any one type came from outer space and can crash to earth anywhere at all.
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Post  adrian ss on Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:43 am

Nightjar wrote:
adrian ss wrote:BEWAAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAA! Oh my little sides hurt from laughing.  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!  lol!
     No way would that claim to fame/sole ownership  hold up in a legal court of law.
What are they afraid of? Do they think that a privateer might beat them to the punch in discovering life in outer space and so lets create a law that makes all meteorites in WA belong to WA Museum.

You can laugh all you like Adrian, the law is the law, if you wish to flout it so be it? Come down off your high horse and research the penalty you could be faced with.


I think it is the WA Museum that is on a very high, high horse.
    Claiming to own all meteorites in WA is so far beyond meglamanic insanity  as to be beyond comprehension.
They might as well try to claim ownership of all of the asteroids in the asteroid belt or all of the rocks on the surface of the moon.
    You can rest assured that if I find a naturally  created meteorite and take possession of it, it is mine and anybody or organisation governed by their own self concocted laws that state otherwise, tries to take it from me will have a serious battle on their hands.
I do not have any WA meteorites....Yet. Wink Smile
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Post  nero_design on Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:59 pm

That's an interesting site Adrian.  I clicked on one of the links and it tells you the impact details of several famous meteorite impacts (like the Tunguska blast).  I think it's pretty cool that we can find them ourselves when out detecting.  We'd probably miss the stony meteorites but the iron ones are easy to find with  metal detector.  The stony types still contain enough iron to stick to a magnet in most instances.

Nightjar wrote:Meteorites found in Western Australia are held under a statutory obligation laid down in Section 45 of the Museum Act (1969 as amended in 1973), whereby meteorites from Western Australia belong to the State, and ownership is vested in the Trustees of the Western Australian Museum.

I've written about this here a couple of times in the distant past.  All meteorites found in Western Australia are automatically considered WA state property and belongs to the government.  They say you can't so much as be physically touch or handle a meteorite found over there without a letter from the government granting permission to do so.  Which is probably why so many of them are "magically" discovered on the borders of so many other neighborly states.  NSW certainly allows possession of meteorites found in Australia but selling Australian meteorites to buyers outside the country is prohibited without the appropriate export permit and the Federal Police have allegedly retrieved meteorites (and larger gold nuggets) that were sent to overseas buyers without obtaining a suitable export permit. Quite a few smaller ones are sold overseas via Ebay and don't attract any attention.  A moratorium preventing collection from Australian impact sites often results in a note that the specimen was collected in the 1950s or 1920s - long before modern prohibitions were applied.  It's possibly to tell that some specimens were exposed to the elements and therefore were found on the surface in the days before metal detectors were prohibited in those areas.  Others from deeper in the ground show a different appearance and no surface weathering... indicating they were probably collected via metal detector after prohibition.  I believe getting permission to sell or send one overseas requires a mineral export permit but it's also covered by UNESCO restrictions.  These UNESCO rules declare that Australia considers meteorites (and possibly larger nuggets - presumably over 200 grams) to be 'historical items' of 'cultural importance'/significance.  As long as the specimen is adequately represented by museum collections, it's not hard to get a permit to export it.

Meteor Impacts... (Off Topic....again)  Img_2212

A specimen from the 'CANYON DIABLO' nickel-iron Meteorite fall (from Arizona) in my own collection.

I found three small iron meteorites last month and purchased several more from notable Australian impact craters (eg Wolf Creek Crater) that were for sale from a gem dealer in the Blue Mountains in December 2019.  I was out in the goldfields yesterday looking for meteorites in a ravine - but we all found ourselves overheated and dehydrated soon after arriving and had to cut our trip short when we went through more water than anticipated.  I found a monster of a meteorite in March 2009 but after 9 return trips to recover it I've never been able to relocate it due to the repetitive nature of the scenery and geology.  It made a tremendous "Gong!" sound when i knocked it with with my pick. I bought a GPS before I went out again but still haven't been able to relocate that iron space rock a second time.  

If anyone finds a meteorite, the best thing to do is have it identified by a museum in their state.  The normal procedure is for a section of the meteorite to be donated to the museum for international study. This piece is cut off with a rock cutting diamond saw and retained (donated) for the purpose of future study..  It's usually under one third of the volume of the meteorite or less.  This also creates a flat side that allows the meteorite to be more easily stood on a display table. The museum or institution will return the larger portion/remainder of the specimen to you with a detailed breakdown of the mineral content and an official name or designation. They can also supply a letter stating that the specimen is well represented in local collections and therefore qualifies for export or overseas sale.  This first document adds quantifiable price value to the meteorite because there's no question it is a genuine meteorite and is recognized as such by a known institution. The second letter makes it possible to obtain an export permit without violating the UNESCO rules that Australia is signatory to.  Buying or selling meteorites purchased from other countries overseas has no such regulations or restrictions.

Meteor Impacts... (Off Topic....again)  Img_6712

My wife with one of the iron meteorites on display in the Sydney Museum of Natural History.

Some of the larger overseas specimens can make a great display specimen for the home or office. I've seen one seller who obtains large iron-type specimens weighing many kilos and he sandblasts them until they're super shiny and reflective before sealing them with what I'm guessing is varnish (to stop the oxidization process). This only works with super-stable types.  Don't bother trying this with a Nantan meteorite from China though.
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Post  Nightjar on Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:35 pm

It is illegal to send meteorites overseas that have been found in Australia. Doing so breaks Federal Law under the 'Protection of Movable Cultural Heritage Act (1986)' and can incur heavy penalties including fines and/or a prison sentence.

http://www.meteorites.com.au/found/law.html

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-15/lake-eyre-meteorite-crown-property/7091562

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-13/meteorite-worth-100000-proving-priceless-to-qld-scientists/9042334
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Post  adrian ss on Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:01 pm

[quote="nero_design"]That's an interesting site Adrian.  I clicked on one of the links and it tells you the impact details of several famous meteorite impacts (like the Tunguska blast).  I think it's pretty cool that we can find them ourselves when out detecting.  We'd probably miss the stony meteorites but the iron ones are easy to find with  metal detector.  The stony types still contain enough iron to stick to a magnet in most instances.

I found that link several years ago and am surprised that is still active. Happy that it is.
Purchased a couple of 1kg supposedly iron meteorites from China a few years ago and sent some scrapings off to be analysed at a lab in Perth. The result was Terrestrial Maghemite. Sad I though they looked a bit dodgy in the adv but were berry chip so had a crack at them. They are now used as door stops and to check the ground bal capabilities of my tectas. Laughing
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Post  nero_design on Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:30 am

Nightjar wrote:It is illegal to send meteorites overseas that have been found in Australia. Doing so breaks Federal Law under the 'Protection of Movable Cultural Heritage Act (1986)' and can incur heavy penalties including fines and/or a prison sentence.

Yup.  You can still apply for an export permit to sell one overseas.  I believe it takes under 14 days to obtain one.  There an indication of the existence of this in the first line of the link you posted.  

Unless the laws recently changed, NSW isn't party to the 'Crown retaining ownership' to meteorites found in NSW but people still need an export permit for sale overseas.  South Australia gave permission for the 'Meteorite Men' (of Discovery Channel Fame) to locate and then remove a number of meteorites from Australia (and later sell them online) for specimens taken during the filming of one of their episodes.  We were involved in a disagreement on this (on this forum if I remember correctly) after I pointed out that they did not raise the subject of permits to dig in a protected area nor indicate permits were needed to remove their meteorites from Australia.  They later claimed that they had indeed negotiated permission but should have noted these issues on the episode since it would have given viewers the impression that they were acting unlawfully... and might have inspired others to do so without realizing they were breaking any laws.

Most people who know about the rules in WA or SA will often simply "discover them in another state" - after throwing it into their pickup truck.  I can't say I blame them really... especially if the rock fell to Earth millions of years before the current lifeforms dominated the planet.. leading to the current political party that passes legislation against touching them.

Here's a couple of my favorite videos showing gold prospectors finding meteorites...



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Post  nero_design on Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:41 am

adrian ss wrote: ...Purchased a couple of 1kg supposedly iron meteorites from China a few years ago and sent some scrapings off to be analysed at a lab in Perth. The result was Terrestrial Maghemite. Sad  I though they looked a bit dodgy in the adv but were berry chip so had a crack at them. They are now used as door stops and to check the ground bal capabilities of my tectas. Laughing

I got duped once by a seller in Arizona (USA) who sold me an "Iron meteorite pendant" that they had for sale. When it arrived, it was just river slate.  It was incredibly lightweight but looked VERY MUCH like an actual meteorite.  They normally sold beads and were a bit embarrassed when I contacted them to complain.  They refunded my money and i still have it all these years later in a display cabinet (see pic).  

Meteor Impacts... (Off Topic....again)  Img_0612
To be fair, it really does look like a meteorite.

As you can see, it really does resemble an iron meteorite.  Sadly, it was just river worn stone.... simply slate. The seller told me that they bought it from a supplier but knew nothing about meteorites and listed it with the same description that was supplied with it.  I'd say it was an honest mistake. Especially when you look at it. I'm almost tempted to wear it to remind myself to be more wary when buying online.  Then again, I no longer do.
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Post  adrian ss on Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:57 pm

2.05 kg of maghemite One of my door stops.
Meteor Impacts... (Off Topic....again)  Rscn1015
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Post  Kon61gold on Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:51 pm

So basically what you're saying Adrian, is that you went for the 2kgs of Chinese meteorite jackpot, but got duped big time. Shocked Q35

Cheers Kon. Q11 Q35 T25
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Post  adrian ss on Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:20 pm

Not really.
I knew it looked a bit sus but figured it was so cheap I would buy it and have it tested just so I could expose the seller as a dodgy seller, which I did and he no longer sells meteorites....well not under the name he was using at the time.. I have been perusing the iron meteorites on Ebay and many of them are duds.
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