Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

cheers dave, lookin good

Dave,
could you plug any n/finder, or coiltek coil in to the patch lead or do they have to be the ones you are testing,
John

gim wrote:Dave,
could you plug any n/finder, or coiltek coil in to the patch lead or do they have to be the ones you are testing,
John

Hey John, they all have a 5 pin plug mono and DD coils, but the mono coils only have 2 wires and the DD have 4 wires, here is the problem with your idea, the GPZ coil has 5 wires, and yes the patch lead I made up has a 5 pin plug but I don't think the GPZ would take kindly to having a mono or DD coil hooked up to it. I don't know if it would smoke it up or just not turn on, but I can try it on your GPZ if you like.

cheers dave

Patch cable is a mod to the coil being cut, not a mod for the detector. For those with a 19 and not happy with it, should not be a big problem. You then get to use the modded 19, as well as the option to use the new range of cables. Only downside is loss of warranty on the 19.

Winterwood wrote:Patch cable is a mod to the coil being cut, not a mod for the detector.  For those with a 19 and not happy with it, should not be a big problem.  You then get to use the modded 19, as well as the option to use the new range of cables.  Only downside is loss of warranty on the 19.

That's exactly the way I did it, I figured the GPZ19" coil was not getting much use so I did it this way, and as for warranty, well I guess it was just about past the date anyway.

For those that don't have the GPZ19" coil it can be done exactly the same with the GPZ14" coil which is what Stan (Stan O member here) has done and he is the original starting point for these aftermarket coils being in Australia.

cheers dave

davsgold wrote:

Winterwood wrote:Patch cable is a mod to the coil being cut, not a mod for the detector.  For those with a 19 and not happy with it, should not be a big problem.  You then get to use the modded 19, as well as the option to use the new range of cables.  Only downside is loss of warranty on the 19.

That's exactly the way I did it, I figured the GPZ19" coil was not getting much use so I did it this way, and as for warranty, well I guess it was just about past the date anyway.

For those that don't have the GPZ19" coil it can be done exactly the same with the GPZ14" coil which is what Stan (Stan O member here) has done and he is the original starting point for these aftermarket coils being in Australia.

cheers dave

Dave,

Are there any moves afoot for someone to step up and do this cutting and building of the required adaptor lead, for the less tech savvy amongst us ?

Cheers,
Rick

I think the chip is in the coil plug so unless Minelab are handing out chips you need to sacrifice one from a coil you have.
They dont give them to local manufacturers so i don't see them being given to overseas coil makers.

Alan WA wrote:I think the chip is in the coil plug so unless Minelab are handing out chips you need to sacrifice one from a coil you have.
They dont give them to local manufacturers so i don't see them being given to overseas coil makers.

G'day Alan WA

Your right the chip is in the coil plug, but nothing is getting "SACRIFICED" as you put the male 5 pin plug end back on the coil cable that you used to make the patch lead, and therefore the new aftermarket coils plug into the patch lead and so does your original GPZ coil and everything works and works well.

Your probably right in saying Minelab won't be handing out the plugs with a chip in them, which if they did it would be a win win for them and the rest of us.  After all we have been waiting  a long time for Minelab to produce a bigger range of coils for the GPZ7000

A big coil that is way lighter is a bonus and will get plenty of use, and a small coil in the thick scrub etc is also what some are asking for.

This is the patch lead I made from the GPZ19" coil cable/plug, with a 5 pin microphone plug fitted.


cheers dave

AraratGold wrote:
Dave,

Are there any moves afoot for someone to step up and do this cutting and building of the required adaptor lead, for the less tech savvy amongst us ?

Cheers,
Rick

I would say there will be, there is a schematic that will come with each coil purchased showing the how to, and if your thinking you can't do it yourself then anyone with a good soldering station that does electronic circuit boards type of work will be able to handle the job.

I did do mine and I must admit it was a bit stressful.

cheers dave

More testing this week, Stan is out testing more coils this week, I had a look at the small 10"x9" coil yesterday in town, it looks very well built light weight etc. The new version of the 18" coil was attached to his 7000 ready for action. He is going back to the same area where he used the prototype 18" coil to see if there is any big deep ones hiding that the prototype never found.

The weather has turned bad with wind and rain overnight so I hope Stan is doing ok out there.

cheers dave

fingers crossed all goes well

Just a snippet (bellow) from a post on Doug's forum. Valid points or just another winge about anything Minelab. The reason I ask is I'm shortly buying a Zed and was interested in the smaller aftermarket coil should/when it comes available.

"To get the coils to work they have to use Codan/ML IP property which is contained in a chip in the coil lead. The software and coding in the chip is automatically protected by copyright and I believe cannot be legally used by another party without them obtaining a license from ML.
Does the coil maker have this license?
An adapter lead has to be made by cutting the lead of an existing ML coil to use these new coils.
So you can kiss your warranty on existing coil goodbye!
What will happen if your SAD7000 develops a fault when using these coils? I doubt that ML will honor the SAD 7000 warranty!
Also does anyone think that ML are going to allow a 3rd party to sell after market coils for the SAD7000 when they have spent so many R@D dollars and time on the coils and may well in the future wish to come out with their own new range of coils."

RegolithRick wrote:Just a snippet (bellow) from a post on Doug's forum. Valid points or just another winge about anything Minelab. The reason I ask is I'm shortly buying a Zed and was interested in the smaller aftermarket coil should/when it comes available.

"To get the coils to work they have to use Codan/ML  IP property which is contained in a chip in the coil lead. The software and coding in the chip is automatically protected by copyright and I believe cannot be legally used by another party without them obtaining a license from ML.
Does the  coil maker have this license?
An  adapter lead has to be  made by cutting the lead of an  existing ML coil to use these new coils.
So you can kiss your   warranty on   existing coil goodbye!
What will happen if your SAD7000 develops a fault when using these coils? I doubt that ML  will honor the SAD 7000 warranty!
Also does anyone think that ML are going to allow a 3rd party to sell after market coils for the SAD7000 when they have spent so many  R@D dollars and time on the coils and may well in the future wish to come out with their own new range of coils."

G'day RegolithRick

The only part from that other forum says is correct is that the chip is in the coil plug and you need to make an adapter/patch lead from it. The rest of what is said is Bullsh!t, you don't need anyone's permission to cut up your own coil lead etc, but if your coil is still in a warranty period then yes it may well void your warranty.

The coil that is manufactured overseas is not breaking any coding or copyright or IP of any sort, it is up to the individual purchaser to make their own patch lead how ever they choose. I don't believe the Australian coil manufactures need ML permission/license to make coils for the GPX5000/4500 detectors etc.

Minelab have had 3 years to make and sell a bigger range of coils for the 7000 and have so far not done so. Will they in the future? can only hope they will, so in the mean time another manufacture has taken up the challenge.

Anyway when these coils become available for sale in Australia no one if forcing anyone to use them, it's a choice that each can make.

cheers dave

RegolithRick wrote:Just a snippet (bellow) from a post on Doug's forum. Valid points or just another winge about anything Minelab. The reason I ask is I'm shortly buying a Zed and was interested in the smaller aftermarket coil should/when it comes available.

"To get the coils to work they have to use Codan/ML  IP property which is contained in a chip in the coil lead. The software and coding in the chip is automatically protected by copyright and I believe cannot be legally used by another party without them obtaining a license from ML.
Does the  coil maker have this license?
An  adapter lead has to be  made by cutting the lead of an  existing ML coil to use these new coils.
So you can kiss your   warranty on   existing coil goodbye!
What will happen if your SAD7000 develops a fault when using these coils? I doubt that ML  will honor the SAD 7000 warranty!
Also does anyone think that ML are going to allow a 3rd party to sell after market coils for the SAD7000 when they have spent so many  R@D dollars and time on the coils and may well in the future wish to come out with their own new range of coils."

SAD7000??

Updating, modding, changing, connecting after market,  buyers choice.
I also love hot rods and street machines. Holden or ford have never charged anybody to my knowledge about mods, updating, aftermarked adaptions.    A coil adaption by owner in my eyes is no different to chipping, changing exhaust or adding a supercharger.
99% of those of us who have purchased minelab gear would have added a booster, aftermarket coils battery packs ect and now there seems to be a problem with doing the ssme to the 7000.  Prehaps those being somewhat negative are just jealous because they can not afford to purchase one.  What one does with goods that one purchased is there own perogative as to what they do to there goods.
Let those who want to purchase after market goods do so without finding some argument about why they can't.
Stan, congratulations for bringing us new gear for more choice.  I know you are the middle man but you have stood tall, we 7000 users thank you.

Modifying any patented Item/Good for personal use/satisfaction can, is & always will be done by someone on some thing.  It might render the original warranty of the patented item in question void if modded or tampered with, but unless Australian/State Laws clearly prohibit the modification of a certain manufactured Item/Good (due to health/safety concerns etc) there is no stopping anyone purchasing any legal Australian Item/good/service) & have that good/service altered or modified (through the right governing bodies/officials if need be) for the purpose of suiting ones personal needs. Duplicating or incorporating someone else's patent design, within an Item/Product for the purpose of selling it to the general public for monetary gain, without the permission of the copyright/patent holder, is an infringement/offence of patented/copyright laws.
Hey, but don't take my word for it, for there remain loop holds on just about every situation. One just has to figure them out.

Cheers Kon.

Cheers for the reply. I agree that if you've cut up the coil lead then id say coil warranty is void. I would be prepared to take that risk to fit alternative sized coils. But what If an aftermarket coil somehow caused a problem to the 7000 would your machine warranty also be void? I'm presuming if you had to return the machine under warranty they would see the altered coil cable? I know my 4wd may have warranty issues if I chip it, so for the sack of keeping my warranty valid ill wait until it's out of warranty.

RegolithRick wrote:Cheers for the reply. I agree that if you've cut up the coil lead then id say coil warranty is void. I would be prepared to take that risk to fit alternative sized coils. But what If an aftermarket coil somehow caused a problem to the 7000 would your machine warranty also be void? I'm presuming if you had to return the machine under warranty they would see the altered coil cable? I know my 4wd may have warranty issues if I chip it, so for the sack of keeping my warranty valid ill wait until it's out of warranty.

If the patch lead is done correctly then the 7000 knows no difference, it's just a machine that has been told to check for something, and that something is in the plug lead and whichever plug lead you choice to use, GPZ19 or GPZ14 the detector still recognizes that, and when the aftermarket coil is attached below that patch lead the info feed to the 7000 is happy to use.

As for something going wrong inside the 7000, well they do have some issues anyway and when that happens I think in the past you only send the 7000 without the coil and all the accessories. If the 7000 is past the warranty period then like another item you pay to have it fixed.

As for the coil you use to make the patch lead from well I wouldn't expect a repair, just like a modded GPX5000 Minelab have no responsibility to repair them.

These aftermarket coils don't come with the lower shaft/washers/bolts etc, these can be purchased as a kit from a detector shop for $65 or so bucks, or you will have to keep swapping the lower shaft from coil to coil, and this is a bit tedious to do often if you want to keep cross checking targets.

cheers dave

Kon61gold wrote:Duplicating or incorporating someone else's patent design, within an Item/Product for the purpose of selling it to the general public for monetary gain, without the permission of the copyright/patent holder, is an infringement/offence of patented/copyright laws.Cheers Kon.

Thats the good thing about these coils Kon, there just a coil and have none of the above stuff, and the coil maker doesn't need to have permission. They don't come with the patch lead, you have to make the decision if you want to use/buy one to make that yourself.

cheers dave

The $64000 question Dave is will they be ready for the next WA prospecting season ? It would be nice to stick an 18" on for patch hunting !

I wonder if someone with electronic smarts, like Pat O'Connell, for example, would be willing to do the patch leads for us. It would be a nice little earner for someone who could do them properly !

Cheers,
Rick

AraratGold wrote:The $64000 question Dave is will they be ready for the next WA prospecting season ? It would be nice to stick an 18" on for patch hunting !

I wonder if someone with electronic smarts, like Pat O'Connell, for example, would be willing to do the patch leads for us. It would be a nice little earner for someone who could do them properly !

Cheers,
Rick

I would certainly be hoping it will be ready by then Rick, and I'm sure someone with electronic skills like your mate would have no trouble doing the job, as the coil will come with a schematic of how to do the job. Just remember that you will have to take your own GPZ coil to him to have the job completed.

cheers dave

I see a market for dead out of warranty genuine 7000 coils..

Doug, from behind the walls of his coward's castle, and in his usual anti Minelab theme, has now come back with this :

" Some on the knitting club forum just don;t  get it!  Almost certainly cutting the coil lead will invalidate the coil warranty but we  still  have the question of what happens if SAD7000  develops  a fault when using these coils.Will ML still repair the  SAD7000 if it is under warranty? I doubt that ML will carry our any warranty repairs with a detector that has unauthorized modifications. Its even possible that they could refuse to repair any SAD7000  that uses these coils whether the SAD7000 is in the warranty period or not!!! Then the poor SAD7000 user is stuck with a $10,000 lemon!!!!  "

http://australianelectronicgoldprospectingforum.com/general-chat-and-discussion-forum/don't-get-your-hopes-up-for-non-ml-after-market-coils-for-the-sad-7000!/msg45958/?topicseen#msg45958

The way I see it Doug is that the detector is NOT BEING MODIFIED, unlike a Woody mod.
Only the coil cable at the plug is being altered, and as Dave says above, if the GPZ does develop a fault during the warranty period, only the detector goes back, not the coil. Therefore, Minelab will NOT KNOW that an aftermarket coil was on the detector, because the genuine Minelab chip is still there with the coil, inline, running as per normal.

A bit like running a tuning chip on a diesel engine, then removing it. It leaves no electronic trace.

Rick

Alan WA wrote:I see a market for dead out of warranty genuine 7000 coils..

Start a collection point for them Alan.

cheers dave

AraratGold wrote:

The way I see it Doug is that the detector is NOT BEING MODIFIED, unlike a Woody mod.
Only the coil cable at the plug is being altered,

A bit like running a tuning chip on a diesel engine, then removing it. It leaves no electronic trace.

Rick

Exactly right Rick

cheers dave

Any rough prices on the coils at all davsgold.Be interesting to see if the 18 coil can do a bit better on depth than the 19 inch.

keogh wrote:Any rough prices on the coils at all davsgold. Be interesting to see if the 18 coil can do a bit better on depth than the 19 inch.

The one and only question still to be answered keogh.

keogh wrote:Any rough prices on the coils at all davsgold.Be interesting to see if the 18 coil can do a bit better on depth than the 19 inch.

G'day Keogh

Not yet, first it needs to be established after testing that these coils will work without causing any problems, which so far everything is going very well.

I think it's getting close to when they will be marketed, with a brand name and prices.

Everyone want to see the new 18" coil get a bit more depth, me included, but the lighter weight is also a big advantage as the coil will get more use. I used the prototype 18" coil for more than a week everyday no worries, were as I have never used the GPZ19" for a full day at a time, mostly just a half day due to the weight.

cheers dave

slimpickens wrote:

keogh wrote:Any rough prices on the coils at all davsgold. Be interesting to see if the 18 coil can do a bit better on depth than the 19 inch.

The one and only question still to be answered keogh.    

Hey Slim, you, me and everyone wants to know that.

cheers dave

Well, bugger bugger, the new revamped coils were not what we were hoping for, they are way way to sensitive for our ground in Aus, and basically unusable. Stan went back to using the 18" prototype which was and still is great, and I think the overseas guys will have to keep the same setup that they used in this one for our Aus conditions.

Stan was overwhelmingly disappointed, as he had very high hopes for the upgraded ones.

Stan may add more at some point.

cheers dave