WA ACCESS TO LEASES

HI  ALL . I WAS WONDERING IF ANYBODY COULD HELP ME WITH THIS QUESTION?  CAN YOU TRAVERSE THROUGH A MINING LEASE  TO GAIN ACCESS TO A   (LIVE OR PENDING TENEMENT )  IN WA.. any advise would be appreciated.  cheers JOE.  

joensue wrote:HI  ALL . I WAS WONDERING IF ANYBODY COULD HELP ME WITH THIS QUESTION?  CAN YOU TRAVERSE THROUGH A MINING LEASE  TO GAIN ACCESS TO A   (LIVE OR PENDING TENEMENT )  IN WA.. any advise would be appreciated.  cheers JOE.  

G'day Joe

Make sure you have a WA miners right first and foremost, your miners right give you permission to traverse (pass and repass) through a pastoral lease, a mining lease, (within reason) like not going right through where their working. You need the mining lease holders permission to work on a live mining tenement or a live prospecting lease, or a 40e for an exploration lease, pending ground (blue) are fair game but be careful of the aqua blue colour as these have a live lease under them.

Any vacant (black) ground is also ok and just be courteous to the pastoral lease holder and give them a call to say you will be doing so and so in this area.

You can get the live and pending and vacant ground from Tengraph for WA, of go to the DMP office and get them to print yo a map of the area your interested in.

Also the 40e permit for $25 for 3 months is good value on a live exploration lease.

cheers dave

THANKS FOR THAT DAVE       MUCH APPRECIATED ..     .I SHOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU A BIT MORE BACKGROUND !!! WE HAVE BEEN TRAVELING  OVER TO THE WEST FOR THE PAST 6 YEARS.  THIS HAS BEEN THE FIRST TIME THAT ONE OF  OUR 40E PERMITS HAVE ALMOST BEEN SURROUNDED BY MINING LEASES ,SOMETHING THAT HASN:T  HAPPENED BEFORE ,   WE CAN ACCESS THESE AREAS WITHOUT PASSING OVER THE MINING LEASES ...BUT ITS A LONG WAY AROUND ,HENCE MY QUESTION .  AGAIN MANY THANKS   JOE

No worries Joe, sometimes you just don't quite know how much info going by the questions, never mind someone else may gain something from it as well.

So yes I would go across the live mining lease, (probably a good idea to let them know your coming through ) to get to where I need to be, and avoid any of their work areas etc of course. if they ask what your doing, which is there right to do, just have a chat with them and it's usually all good.

cheers dave

THANKS AGAIN DAVE . ALL THE BEST JOE

Your Wa Miners right gives you the right to pass and re-pass...move machinary etc...no probs.

THANKS TONY, DO I HAVE TO INFORM THE MINING LEASE HOLDER WHEN I INTEND TO PASS OVER ? AT PRESENT THERE IS NO ACTIVITY HAPPENING AND I WOULD BE PASSING OVER ON A REGULAR BASIS. CHEERS JOE

No, no obligation to notify anyone...leaseholder or pastoralist

But having said that....if you think you can have a working relationship with them then pick up the phone...if it's Minara Resources or Zenith (both around Leo) then I would advise to say nothing, they have both proven themselves to be aggressive companies and deserve no respect from prospectors.

Allowed to pass and repass through where ever you want is a bit misleading.  Several laws come into effect here and only looking at one can get you in to strife.

I have had trouble with smart *** tourists claiming they can drive around my leases around where I am working by using the above stated regulation. Wrong.  Safety laws cannot be ignored.
My minimum obligation as the manager of a work site is too put up keep out signs, repeat minimum obligation.  Also I am required by law to keep everyone out of an area I believe to be unsafe.  If my signs are ignored I can take whatever measures necessary to keep people out of my work area, including blocking tracks, or putting an 8 ft fence around the entire tenement if I wish.
I contacted the mines department and got them to put it all in writing so I can jam down the throat of the next smart ***
My advice is to have a yarn and get permission, if you **** him off he can make life really difficult for you.  I know several people who have had to peg miscellaneous tenements just to get access.
.

G'day Saprolite

I can understand your frustration with people through arrogance not understanding or abiding by the rules/laws governing prospecting leases/mining tenements, but please lets keep the verbality of language to a respectable level.

Management

Readind this post i thought somebody is against us small prospectors with the attitude i got from this post

by Saprolite on Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:29 am   "My minimum obligation as the manager of a work site is too put up keep out signs, repeat minimum obligation.  Also I am required by law to keep everyone out of an area I believe to be unsafe.  If my signs are ignored I can take whatever measures necessary to keep people out of my work area, including blocking tracks, or putting an 8 ft fence around the entire tenement if I wish.
I contacted the mines department and got them to put it all in writing so I can jam down the throat of the next smart ***"

I can understand there is some cowboy guys out there but no offence to  Saprolite but if every tenement holder had this attitude then we would be stuffed.  As far as I understand we can pass through tenements providing it is safe to do so and by somebody just putting up signs all the way around there lease or tenement saying "keep out", then I do not know how that is really legal. Surely you could prove to any court that every meter of the lease/tenement in not safe.  And no normal prospector is going to galavant through work areas or worked ground or near camps without permission from those working there.
Also noticed that this was his first post, a good first impression, not for me personally.

HI ALL .   IT APPEARS THAT THIS SUBJECT IS A BIT OF A GREY AREA !    THE RULES ARE ONE THING , BUT SEEMS TO BE OPEN TO INTERPRETATION .   . BUT AS TONY STATED NOT ALL LEASE HOLDERS ARE THE SAME . I HOPE I DONT ENCOUNTER  LIKE MINDED  PEOPLE!!  THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR ADVISE  CHEERS JOE

I thought the first obligation of a manager was to create a safe area.
Anyway welcome to the forum and hope you are having a nice day.

G'day Joensue

The question put forward was "Can one traverse through a live mining lease, in order to gain access to another live or pending tenement in WA?"
Back in 2002 dad & I took out a dozen section 20's & did what was required of us at the time, in order to enter/access various prospecting localities running through pastoral land, in turn running through a major live mining lease, in order to prospect in/on surrounding pending exploration ground, which also belonged to the mine holder.
To cut a long story short, the moment we entered the pastoralist gates, the pastoralist's son, pulled us over knowing who we were (for they were notified of our intentions & permission was given well in advance)  & guided us to the management in charge of the mine. The Mine manager together with their geologist new not only the No. plates of the vehicle  we were driving, but the names of who each of us were. They then explained to us what was in progress at the time, what tracks to take & when to take them (in order of safety) & did nothing but guide us in the right direction.
Now I know not the current WA mining rules/regulations governing access through active mining leases/Prospecting leases but, I do know that if I got as far as I did, (not through hear say alone), but by going out of my way, communicating with the right people, it all fell into place & worked in my favour.
Regardless of the laws of mining for minerals in any state, we all know that one either goes about things the right way, or take a chance in the wrong way but be prepared to pay the penalty, for ignorance of the law, is never excepted as an excuse for common sense. Its not just about respect for one another's wishes, but respecting the rules/laws governing what you intend on doing. Pay each other the respect that each is due. I'v never had the wrong thing come back to bite me, by doing the right thing.  Do your research, make those phone calls, send those letters/texts off, get the permission required, for where there's a will, there's a way.

Cheers Kon.

G'day Kon

I don't believe the rules have changed since you and your dad were there in 2002, some of the names of things have changed like the section 20a permit has now been named section 40e permit but is the same thing.

Some mining companys and some pastoralists  are more aggressive and really don't want anyone there at all, and on the other hand some are very accommodating and some of the mining companys will give permissions to go on there leases with a phone call and some paperwork.

cheers dave

HI KON.        THANKS FOR THE ADVISE MUCH APPRECIATED .     WHEN I FIRST POSTED THE QUESTION.   IT WAS TO MAKE SURE WE WHERE DOING EVERTHING LEGALY ,   DONT  LIKE CONFRONTATIONS ANY MORE .  CHEERS JOE  

Not picking sides here Dave & I do understand what you are saying, but maybe some of that aggression towards the individual prospector, has come from one to many a claim jumper, doing the wrong thing one to many times over the years. The main point that I'm trying to get through here is, whether one likes it or not, the laws governing precious mineral extraction, must be respected by all parties involved/concerned. In other words, no one should add on, nor take away any part of the laws governing the Mining for minerals legislation act & make it their own. Sadly though, it happens & this is where the conflict begins.

Cheers Kon.

Our hobby used to be an enjoyable past time, waves and smiles and lengthy chats with all and every one who rocked up.
Call in and have a cuppa with the pastoralist, geos would drop in and discuss over a beer or three about what is happening around the area.
If someone drops into our camp for a chat, we welcome them, they can even park their van for the night, have a swing and keep what they find. (Probably won't find a lot)
Just about time to give it away one thinks, the "hobby" has gone out of it, there seems to be a lot of agro creeping in.
DAMN PITY!!!

Like I have said before a lot of the rules and regulations in regards to leases and the rights of prospectors, lease holders and so on are very vague and seem to be in some cases left up to the interpretation of the individual, which is where the problem starts, it seems in recent years that many lease holders both mining and pastoral are becoming more aggressive in their approach to prospectors and the problem with that is that while they might scare and intimidate some people they in some instances should expect an aggressive response back if they approach people in an aggressive way themselves, I can understand the frustration of trying to keep people out of "where you are actually working" but the aggression tactic is used by some even when they are not even working the area and just sitting on it, some will intimidate people out of areas that are not even on their leases and do so for miles around it so who is doing the wrong thing then?, they in some cases need to be reminded that they are simply "lease holders" and not "land owners" and contrary to their beliefs others have the right to use the land as well providing they are abiding by the laws and regulations of course.

Many prospectors don't want issues and confrontations in the bush and that's not what they are there for, it can put a damper on an otherwise enjoyable trip so many more are doing the right thing as apposed to the a holes that are not, and we don't like being tarred with the same brush either as many of us also dislike the dipchits that do the wrong thing, raid live leases, leave all the holes and trash about the place as well, as it gets taken out on the rest of us, but when you are doing the right thing and then get confronted by some gold hog that sees everything in the district as there's and there's alone whether on the lease or not, then of course it hard not to respond in like manner, and then after awhile you become cynical and less likely to want to do the right thing.

In essence if you treat people with respect then you should expect it back in return, if they are breaking the law and doing it knowingly then they should expect to be prosecuted and that goes for prospectors and lease holders alike.

au-fever

Hi all,I have been out and about for the last few days so I am a little behind in the discussion,but I am not sure about who is being a bully out in the bush,I noticed goldtalk said it was around the Leo area ,what has been going on ? , are there some big boys being aggressive,is it a particular prospector,company or pastoralists, I was interested in going out that way but I don’t want to drive into a war zone.

Hi Goldernlice....
By the way...good post above from au-fever.

There is no 'war' going on out here. the issue gets raised a lot as it's been the main issue around here for the last few years. I raise it often as the attitudes of pastoralists and prospectors effect what I do.

There always has been and always will be 'wally's' out here and maybe it's just that they are a lot more noticeable than in the city????

As has alway's been the case...be aware of your rights and equally aware of your obligations. Prospect legally, get some gold, enjoy the bush and relax.

If you have any concerns then you are welcome to give me a phone call.

cheers
Tony

Hi Tony, Thanks for the reply,I am away agin soon but Thank you for the invite to give you a call sometime,I hope non of the problems out there turn physical ,this could be a worry , I have spent some time reading many comments in theses forums that there seems to be some problems with bullying and anger going on . Your hobby is also your business I gather, that would be nice going to work doing something you enjoy so much, so out there in the bush is part of your living as it also is the pastoralists and other professional miners ,to me it seems the rest of us having fun with our chosen hobby should be well versed in the laws and follow them so we don’t upset the people who are trying to make a living ,but as you have said Tony know our rights.
Have a great day .Goldern

G'day Goldern,

Don't forget your WA Miners Right gives you every right to be out there as well. Lisa and I do make a living out of gold (most of the time) and prob because of that I look at these issues a lot more intensely than I prob should. I hope that things will never turn physical out there...I have never seen that happen by the way. As I have always said...there are idiots on both sides. The pastoralist side is particularly bad and the main players work for a mining company and are not a pastoralists backside. It's a funny thing, I have seen people that are not used to the bush do some weird things...the problem pastoralists that are referred to interestingly have no background in the industry, have no management expertise and rely on bullying and hiring of bully's to throw their weight around. Not my problem as I know what the rules are...but I just find it so unnecessary!! At some point common sense will prevail.

There is an interesting write up on the APLA page in FaceBook by Les (President)

Hello Tony, Thanks for the update on what or who I should look out for ,but I am unsure of who they are , not to sure on which individuals or companies to be aware of,are they out there looking around all the time ?,for people ,are they really buying people face to face,god I hope not.

Thanks Nightjar,I haven’t got a face book account(old fashion or slightly tec illiterate) but I found I could read it on the Facebook page  anyway ( not sure how that worked but it did)
Mind you I am not up with what it  was all about,I gather the big boys were being difficult but it did not work,please explain to me when you have time.
Getting back to the fun of prospecting,could anyone recommend a detector suited for a female,not to heavy and easy to use,as I still haven’t purchased one yet.
Have a good day.
Goldern

Any detector will do , I will hold it for you ! [ joke ]

Thanks Mike for the reply,I Think you should do the hard work,I can sit and watch while dishing out orders,I am good at that.