Our Air Tests Z14 & Z19.

kon61 wrote:Fantastic news & well done Dale. Now can I ask you what settings you were in & please don't say "Normal" or its back to the drawing board for us.

Cheers Kon.

Hi Mike, Kon and everybody else that has posted on this thread, sorry for the late info as Dale no longer posts on this Forum. The reasons are his own and I respect that. Yes it was in normal, hope that helps to work this problem out.  He rang me last night on the find and brought it over today as his car battery shat itself, it is the same area as I was picking up them nuggets with the 14 inch elite  with the 5k that was on one of our vids. No grass that way now so swinging would be prime. Hope it get's worked out one way or another for all concerned.

ozgold 041 wrote:

Mike54 wrote:G'day ozgold 041,

I'm just wondering did the 5000/4500 pick up any of the test nuggets in the 24"/2foot test hole??  Just curious that's all.  Thanks for your reply and sharing your information.    

Cheers.

Mike.  

======================================================================================

Hi Mike.

I was not going to bring on a slagging match re the 5000 against the 7000.

But the results were that a 5000 could get the 2 larger pieces at 2' ft, and an 18"inch coil was used.

Regards to you and Jen.

ozgold

Thanks for your reply ozgold and interesting about the 5000 to. Sorry about the late reply.

Cheers.

Mike.

Tell Dale I much appreciate it Dave. The depth on that speci, by the new 19inch coil was exceptional. I can only wish you all,the best of luck next season.
Knowing that I/we detect mostly over average to highly mineralized ground here in Vic, & have Buckley's hope of ever running the 7000 in Normal for general detecting, has me in tears.

Cheers Kon.

Thanks Dave (bg2),

Send our congrats on to the crew to.

Cheers.

Mike.

First up, let me just say that this information (names, pictures and details) has been posted elsewhere so I'm simply repeating it for members here.

Dale's nugget, on the first day out with it, was a 66 gram quartz specimen (containing 50g of gold) at 890mm (35.03 inches).  He posted me the same pictures directly from his location and ....since he's posted them elsewhere (and I asked him for something that I could pass on here), I'm going to repost a couple of the images here.

Of the gold he found, he wrote "The 14 could not pick it up until about 250mm [of soil] was removed and the 5k + 14 elite could not pick it up until a further 120mm was removed." He also expressed considerable surprise in finding that particular target with the GPX 19 coil at this specific depth.

He's a VERY experienced prospector with the GPZ 7000.  I've known him and covered his exploits since the earliest days when he first took up prospecting and have been fortunate to photograph many of his finds and nuggets when he moved onto electronic metal detecting.  His successes are always a pleasure to see but he lives and breathes the prospecting lifestyle.  

I've spoken with quite a few people since you folks started complaining about the 19" coil and everyone I've spoken to has said to me that they no longer post here due to the behavior of members when opinions differ.  This is why I haven't posted anything in the last couple of years.

So I can happily report that there's some NICE deep finds with the new 19" coil from at least three people I personally know. And the coils only left the retail stores on the 14th (last week).  If you ask around you may find that I had urgently requested feedback since the coil was released.  One thing I voiced privately to members here via PM was that I disagreed with the way members were using and "testing" their new coils.  The other thing I said ...was that I was waiting to hear back from the few pros (people who make a living from the gold they detect or find) that will give me a very clear idea of whether or not the coil was performing.  I'm now convinced that it is.

Good luck out there.  

'May the odds be ever in your favor'.

kon61 wrote:Tell Dale I much appreciate it Dave. The depth on that speci, by the new 19inch coil was exceptional. I can only wish you all,the best of luck next season.
Knowing that I/we detect mostly over average to highly mineralized ground here in Vic, & have Buckley's hope of ever running the 7000 in Normal for general detecting, has me in tears.

Cheers Kon.

No worries Kon and Mike will do, just passing on info that might help Just want to make it clear to any new members on the forum, we have no affiliation or conclude with anybody to fudge figures of our finds by any machine or coil combination.

Easy there Nero.Even though we haven't met in person,we very well know who Dale is & he certainly don't need an introduction here. His vast experience/knowledge in the world of metal detecting/prospecting for gold, is proven to be of the highest esteem, for his posts speak for themselves. When he puts up,we shut up & pay attention & not once have any member of my group or any one of us management, have thought else-wise of the lads up north.
Our personal tests, were performed here in Victoria for all Victorians to see & compare & are far from being close to what the boys from Queensland are achieving, but that doesn't mean we doubt in what they've managed to achieve or find.On the other hand,maybe you'd prefer us to shut everyone up here who has a different opinion to yourself.
How you jump on the band wagon of success & start accusing us all, beats the cr*p out of me. As a matter of fact why don't you come over here in Vic & show us amateurs how its done,how to achieve similar depths on gold, without air tests,so that you can start selling them there 19 inch coils, like hot cakes here too.
Just like there are good & bad people walking this earth,so does exist the odd rotten egg (Troll) here too & its all to be expected.

Cheers Kon.

Hitting large nuggets at 20" is what would be classed as normal in my books, I know of someone who hit a 1oz nugget at 18" using a VLF, So I find the facts and figures very uninspiring to say the leased when you offset the cost of the two machines plus a $1300 Coil, and that's a tough nut to crack.

I did all this back when the most expensive machine cost around $5400.00 and I spent around 30 to 40k on their machines/products over a couple of years and the machine that found that one ounce nugget found me more Gold in one day than I found in 6 years, A car might have 360ks on the speedo but that don't mean that is what it can do, Throw a head on wind into the mix and that 360 drops down to 285,

Quoting figures based on Lab conditions is very misleading, I have VLF's that will see 37 gram targets way beyond 35" but and depending on which coil is fitted and the Target those inches can turn in to Meters "Under" Lab Conditions.

I believe the Advert blurb should have said "Will produce up to 30% more depth under the Right Conditions" then people would have had something to look forward to instead of wondering if the Coil is working correctly.

Either way this coil will go deeper, But as to when it does is like throwing a Dart in a Map, you pay ya money and you take your chance.

It is no use quoting ML's figures that is not going to happen any time soon and when it does it will be on an old Axe head or a dropped penny, That's Murphy's law, And all this Coil is going to do is give you higher expectations that is going to lead to an even High fall of disappointment. We have seen a couple of good deep finds but a lot of shallow finds and out of all the testing that has been done all we have seen is no where near to matching the advertised claims, Even Woody's Video gave us cause for concerns, Like him or hate him the man has got a point. Add his Video to the number of tests and what people have posted here then people should expect the same sort of performance as with any other coil and stop making ML out to be Gods because most of what they claim is based in an Ideal World and out there Conditions are anything But, The Laws of Physics Dictate what a detector/coil can achieve not ML, And the ground conditions can change minutely over 10 million times per acre and although in small amounts they could be just enough to offset any positives that a coil did have.

John.

Hi Nero

I just want to say
Yes people are complaining.. wouldn't you be too, 
if you brought a coil that you thought may not be up to what you had hoped?
But then you sell them!

Also yes we all have a difference of an opinion... would be a funny world if we were all the same..
May as well be programmed like robots 

As far as members leaving.. well thats their choice.. it happens on all forums!


Lets hope for some good reports come through. 


And Goldhound.. awesome job.. well done.. hope you find heaps more..

alchemist wrote:

ozgold 041 wrote:
===========================================================================================

Hi  Mike 54.
This information needs an explanation into what is going on with this new method of constant current scanning.

I then said let’s try something; we never gave the 11oz a go in the 2’ Foot hole, so it was inserted. When the coil was tried over this dirty slug there was a very faint response.

I can tell you that knocked our socks off, ----- go figure????

Cheers ozgold.

ozgold you might be onto a very valid point respecting CC transmission.
I was intrigued by JPs comment on the Treasure talk blog about "skin effect" here
 
High Yield is the Go-To gold mode for nuggets ranging in size from 2 grams through to approximately 2 ounces. However, this is dependent on the shape and size of the target, for instance a specimen containing many ounces can give a better response in High Yield compared to General due to the rough nature of the gold and how that irregular surface affects the way this mode creates a skin effect (eddy current) on the surface of the target.

http://www.minelab.com/anz/treasure-talk/practical-tips-for-using-the-new-gpz-19-super-d-coil

Before ZVT nobody took any notice of the skin effect because it had died out long before the sample gates opened. Traditional PI relies more on eddies being generated much deeper than the surface especially large solid LTC objects. It would appear from JPs comments that ZVT relies more upon the skin effect especially with short time constant targets. So perhaps the 30% is highly dependent upon the gold type and surface texture, a rough grainy pitted target has much more surface area for these superficial eddy currents to form.

If testing a Zed, take any air or in ground testing with exhumed gold with a grain of salt.

If ZVT takes advantage of skin induced eddy currents then we may have the answer as to why...
a) We often discover that a target signal that sounds real good turns out to be disappointingly much, much smaller than anticipated and...
b) When retesting gold in air or reburied, we can only achieve a detection distance two thirds to three quarters or similar of that obtained in the initial recovery.

I think soil minerals, specifically magnetically permeable ones affect the target much like we imagine a 'halo' does. So it's not the impurities leaching from the target that appear to increase detection range, but things like iron, nickel, chromium etc, in native form which perhaps through interaction with the golds own native magnetic field, produce an unperturbed jacket or halo that may strengthen the targets eddy currents and oppose their decay.

So if this theory holds any water at all, seek out flatter areas that have remained undisturbed for as long as possible, I suspect that you will not achieve the full 19" ZVT advantage, on throw out piles, recent stream alluvium, and moderate to steep inclines.

Don't let air tests or inability to use full-bore settings discourage you.      

Cheers
Kev.

Alchemist,

Probably the most informal post I've read in a long time. I think you might be onto something. Thank you very much for taking the time to share.

Regards,

JG

Jay Gold wrote:Alchemist,

Probably the most informal post I've read in a long time. I think you might be onto something. Thank you very much for taking the time to share.

Regards,

JG

Cheers JG.

I fail to see that after well over 2 years in development, at least that we know of, how the 19" could be a flop.
Bruce Candy has never let us down before, so we must give this coil time to show what it's made of.

This all sounds very good but Gold does not produce a Halo, It does not Bio-degrade it is the one metal that has remained ever since it was first dug up and 99.9% of every piece of Gold that has ever been dug up is still in circulation to this day and the chances are that the rings on your wives or Girlfriends finger might well of been mined during the Roman times or even Ancient Egypt about 5000 years ago regardless of which continent that it was Mined on/Found. You can Burn it, You can Melt it and you can Crush it but after all that you will still have it because it is virtually indestructible, If it did have a halo that would mean it was Bio-degrading which means it was breaking down, Now if it has survived 10 million years I do not believe that it has just decided to break down in order to produce a Halo effect after waiting all this time just so it can be found by a 19" Coil.

The ZED seems to produce a constant signal in a similar way that a VLF does only with a bit more Horsepower that when that signal bounces off the target seems to magnify/Boost the signal response sent out from the Coil.

John.

Gold in the ground (native gold nuggets) are not 99.99% pure, perhaps in is not the actual gold that produces a "Halo" effect but one of the other impurities leaching out over the millions of years while it is sitting in the ground waiting for us with a detector to stumble upon it.

cheers dave

davsgold wrote:Gold in the ground (native gold nuggets) are not 99.99% pure, perhaps in is not the actual gold that produces a "Halo" effect but one of the other impurities leaching out over the millions of years while it is sitting in the ground waiting for us with a detector to stumble upon it.  

cheers dave

I know Natural Gold is impure and in some areas of the US it can be less than 75% pure,

Well that can't work either, Because that means that the ZED is tuned to see the foreign / impurities that are commonly found in Gold producing areas, But first and foremost the ZED is a metal detector, But what ever it is doing it is doing it quite well, And a secrete know only to those at ML HQ.

John.

Ridge Runner wrote:This all sounds very good but Gold does not produce a Halo, It does not Bio-degrade it is the one metal that has remained ever since it was first dug up and 99.9% of every piece of Gold that has ever been dug up is still in circulation to this day and the chances are that the rings on your wives or Girlfriends finger might well of been mined during the Roman times or even Ancient Egypt about 5000 years ago regardless of which continent that it was Mined on/Found. You can Burn it, You can Melt it and you can Crush it but after all that you will still have it because it is virtually indestructible, If it did have a halo that would mean it was Bio-degrading which means it was breaking down, Now if it has survived 10 million years I do not believe that it has just decided to break down in order to produce a Halo effect after waiting all this time just so it can be found by a 19" Coil.

The ZED seems to produce a constant signal in a similar way that a VLF does only with a bit more Horsepower that when that signal bounces off the target seems to magnify/Boost the signal response sent out from the Coil.

John.  

Read my post again John, it's obvious that you didn't understand it.

alchemist wrote:

Ridge Runner wrote:This all sounds very good but Gold does not produce a Halo, It does not Bio-degrade it is the one metal that has remained ever since it was first dug up and 99.9% of every piece of Gold that has ever been dug up is still in circulation to this day and the chances are that the rings on your wives or Girlfriends finger might well of been mined during the Roman times or even Ancient Egypt about 5000 years ago regardless of which continent that it was Mined on/Found. You can Burn it, You can Melt it and you can Crush it but after all that you will still have it because it is virtually indestructible, If it did have a halo that would mean it was Bio-degrading which means it was breaking down, Now if it has survived 10 million years I do not believe that it has just decided to break down in order to produce a Halo effect after waiting all this time just so it can be found by a 19" Coil.

The ZED seems to produce a constant signal in a similar way that a VLF does only with a bit more Horsepower that when that signal bounces off the target seems to magnify/Boost the signal response sent out from the Coil.

John.  

Read my post again John, it's obvious that you didn't understand it.

Yes Kev I did mate, My post is not directed at you,

On a few posts and not just here I have seen people talking about Gold's Halo effect when the truths as you know it does not have one.

Cheers,,, John.

Sorry John, can be a bit confusing with multiple discussions on the same thread.
The app can be too at times

Cheers
Kev.

alchemist wrote:Sorry John, can be a bit confusing with multiple discussions on the same thread.
The app can be too at times

Cheers
Kev.

No worries Kev, my internet keeps dropping out tonight and I am having to either retype it or re-Edit it so have the time it don't make sense because words are either missing or mis spelt,

sorry mate.

John.

Nero_design said his photos and info were posted on another website but did not provide the link. Here it is posted for your info!
http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/2645-first-nugget-4-19in-coil/

davsgold wrote:Gold in the ground (native gold nuggets) are not 99.99% pure, perhaps in is not the actual gold that produces a "Halo" effect but one of the other impurities leaching out over the millions of years while it is sitting in the ground waiting for us with a detector to stumble upon it.

cheers dave

Dave (davsgold)

You are correct in your thinking,
The copper, silver, iron and other impurities will leach out into the soil creating a Halo.

Phil

The halo theory has allways intrigued me.
  I know in the area that I hunt there are no halos the gold is still moving down hill on a 5 to 15% grade with 30 inches of rain a year and 2 to 3 feet of top soil. The old pocket hunters around here called it soil creep.
  Never ran a 7000 but the SD,GP,GPX detectors can't even detect some specimen gold so I highly doubt a halo is going to help with a signal on them.

G'day All,

Went out today for a swing with the Z19 coil and brother Tony using his 5000 with the 18" elite coil. Anyway he calls me over as he said he has an iffy sound, so I went over and waved the Z19 over it and I could just hear it. I changed my settings to see if I could get it any better, but this area is very bouncy ground so I settled on the HY/difficult with the sensitivity on 16 smoothing high which gave me the best target signal with out any chatter. It turned out to be a 2.7grm at about 6" deep. Congrats to you Tony for a nice find. So the Z19 can find gold, but I still need more time with it.

Cheers.

Mike.

Mike54 wrote: So the Z19 can find gold, but I still need more time with it.  

Cheers.

Mike.

And so it should Mike, considering it is marginally better than the Z14" and no worse.

I wonder if Coiltek plan on putting out a 20 inch plus elite ?

The Elites are up to 30% deeper than previous mono's of the same size so would be interesting.In theory a 5000 with an 11"Elite matches a 7000 with a standard 14" coil on medium sized gold.

Mike54 wrote:G'day All,

Went out today for a swing with the Z19 coil and brother Tony using his 5000 with the 18" elite coil.  Anyway he calls me over as he said he has an iffy sound, so I went over and waved the Z19 over it and I could just hear it.  I changed my settings to see if I could get it any better, but this area is very bouncy ground so I settled on the HY/difficult with the sensitivity on 16 smoothing high which gave me the best target signal with out any chatter.  It turned out to be a 2.7grm at about 6" deep.    Congrats to you Tony for a nice find.         So the Z19 can find gold, but I still need more time with it.  

Cheers.

Mike.

Mike thanks for the info, can you tell me if that is normal for a nugget of that size that deep, The reason I ask is because I have seen a few posts in the past where some say that they have found nuggets under 2 grams in the 10 to 12 inch range, Or is this related to the type of nugget. ?

Thank you.

John.

G'day Ridge Runner,

It all depends on the ground type, this area is very mineralised and variable.  I have found similar sized gold much deeper here and in WA, but as I said it all depends on the ground types and other different veriables.  Also like you say gold type/orientation in the ground can also play a big part of how the detector/coil sees it.   Hope this makes sense.  

Cheers.

Mike.

Thanks again Mike,

So as with other types of detectors the ground and type of nugget still plays a big part in relation to the depth achieved

Well done.

John.

alchemist wrote:

Jay Gold wrote:Alchemist,

Probably the most informal post I've read in a long time. I think you might be onto something. Thank you very much for taking the time to share.

Regards,

JG

Cheers JG.

I fail to see that after well over 2 years in development, at least that we know of, how the 19" could be a flop.
Bruce Candy has never let us down before, so we must give this coil time to show what it's made of.  

Did Bruce Candy work on the gpz 19 " coil or was it someone else?