Our Air Tests Z14 & Z19.

G'day All,

We have just finished doing our tests on Tony's 618 gram nugget and our 50 gram specie.  

Air Tests between z14 & z19

Test no 1.________________________Test with max settings ____________________
Zed with 19 inch coil.                                
Factory pre set
Ground balance over ferrite
Mild ground
618grams solid gold nugget
24 inches ( dig me sound). ____________  30"

Test no 2
Zed with 14 inch coil
Same as above
23 inches ( dig me sound ).____________  28"

On a 50 gram specie
Zed with 19 inch coil
17 inches.               __________________ 22"
Zed with 14 inch coil
16 inches ☹️️ ________________________ 18"

Same tests with GPX 5000 18" elite & 14" elite coils.

Gpx 5000 18 inch elite coil, factory pre set
618 gram
22 inches
Using 14 inch elite
21 inches

50 gram specie
17 inches
Now using 14 inch elite coil
Nearly 15 inches

When We found the 50 gram specie, when We first got the Zed.. it was a good 24" deep.
So maybe if we were lucky enough to walk over a target in the ground it should punch down a bit more.. But going on what we have been reading and our tests, so far it's only getting an extra 2 to 3 inches more than the z14".  





Cheers.    

Mike.

Thanks for that Mike.   That is pretty much what flyspecs and I found on the Coilteck test bed
I have been trying to stay positive about this coil but I`m starting to get this sinking feeling

Thanks for that assessment Mike, glad to hear your on your feet again.  

A cpl things, and may not mean anything....Can i ask if you had the broadest face of the buried 618gm for detection (odd shape? long? fist like?) Did you try different orientations?

And...is it indiscreet to ask how much gold is in the specie (apologies if this appears elsewhere) and what % would be surface and would you call it spongy or veiny/slatey type of mass?

Just trying to visualize, and wonder if better results on orientation may have shown up some variables "even" within the test pieces themselves at the time?

With Thanks
Gypsy

Mike54 wrote:G'day All,

We have just finished doing our tests on Tony's 618 gram nugget and our 50 gram specie.  

Air Tests between z14 & z19

Test no 1.________________________Test with max settings ____________________
Zed with 19 inch coil.                                
Factory pre set
Ground balance over ferrite
Mild ground
618grams solid gold nugget
24 inches ( dig me sound). ____________  30"

Test no 2
Zed with 14 inch coil
Same as above
23 inches ( dig me sound ).____________  28"

On a 50 gram specie
Zed with 19 inch coil
17 inches.               __________________ 22"
Zed with 14 inch coil
16 inches ️ ________________________ 18"

Same tests with GPX 5000 18" elite & 14" elite coils.

Gpx 5000 18 inch elite coil, factory pre set
618 gram
22 inches
Using 14 inch elite
21 inches

50 gram specie
17 inches
Now using 14 inch elite coil
Nearly 15 inches

When We found the 50 gram specie, when We first got the Zed.. it was a good 24" deep.
So maybe if we were lucky enough to walk over a target in the ground it should punch down a bit more.. But going on what we have been reading and our tests, so far it's only getting an extra 2 to 3 inches more than the z14".  





Cheers.    

Mike.

Thank you Mike.

phoenix wrote:Thanks for that Mike.   That is pretty much what flyspecs and I found on the Coiltek test bed
I have been trying to stay positive about this coil but I`m starting to get this sinking feeling  

G,day, Phoenix, could you please elaborate on the Coiltek test bed tests? Any data written down?

slimpickens wrote:

phoenix wrote:Thanks for that Mike.   That is pretty much what flyspecs and I found on the Coiltek test bed
I have been trying to stay positive about this coil but I`m starting to get this sinking feeling  

G,day, Phoenix, could you please elaborate on the Coiltek test bed tests?  Any data written down?

No data slim.  We just played around on the test bed for about ½ hr.
Have a look here about ¾ of the way down the page.
http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/2635-lackluster-reports-from-australia-on-gpz-19-coil/

GypsyGoldAu wrote:Thanks for that assessment Mike, glad to hear your on your feet again.  

A cpl things, and may not mean anything....Can i ask if you had the broadest face of the buried 618gm for detection (odd shape? long? fist like?) Did you try different orientations?

And...is it indiscreet to ask how much gold is in the specie (apologies if this appears elsewhere) and what % would be surface and would you call it spongy or veiny/slatey type of mass?

Just trying to visualize, and wonder if better results on orientation may have shown up some variables within the test pieces themselves at the time?

With Thanks
Gypsy

Let me translate for you Mike what gypsy is asking. "Why didn't you get a sledge hammer and flatten those nuggets till they were 12" wide x 14' long and 1/16 " thick? How the hell can this turkey pick up anything at a decent height? What am I to report to my masters back in S.A. ? Take a warm coat with you Gypsy, I hear it's a little bit chilly in Siberia.

Gypsy 

Well.. let me say..
When the zed7000 first came out, mike was one of the few that got the zed7000 straight away..
We found that 50 gram specie ( which is more gold then quartz ) with the zed.. 
were we lucky? Maybe..
But we knew where too go.. that was lucky. 

As for the 618grammer.. if you go to coiltek or look at a coiltek pamphlet/ product brochure you will see that nugget..
It was taken in to the coiltek gold shop, Marybrough and weighed.. 

It was found using the gpx5000 with the 14inch Elite coil.


https://www.facebook.com/Coiltek/photos/a.296268080411635.65903.280579195313857/1131897196848715/?type=3&theater

Thanks for the info. Jen.  

Slim...attack my words if you will, but rest assured, the minute you decide to deride, and introduce personal thoughts/feelings to an argument.....you lose.  

If you can't see that the convex nature of that nugget could distort the signal...smh

It was a genuine query, but again comprehension is running low for some...unless your just a troll.

Gypsy

Hello Mike ' thanks for doing that    

Would be good to do those same tests using a 20 year old SD2100 with the 18" elite & 14" elite coils.
May surprise many  !  

GypsyGoldAu wrote:Thanks for the info. Jen.  

Slim...attack my words if you will, but rest assured, the minute you decide to deride, and introduce personal thoughts/feelings to an argument.....you lose.  

If you can't see that the convex nature of that nugget could distort the signal...smh

It was a genuine query, but again comprehension is running low for some...unless your just a troll.  

Gypsy

It was picked up.. placed down a few times.. 
We only took the one photo..

To add.. it was placed down in a few different angles.. mostly with the broadest side up.

So Gypsy 
You seem very keen to want to know everything about this machine and coil
Are you planning to buy the gpz7000 and the 19 inch coil???

Well done mike and tony on the tests, I guess there will be a lot more tests to come .

GypsyGoldAu wrote:Thanks for the info. Jen.  

Slim...attack my words if you will, but rest assured, the minute you decide to deride, and introduce personal thoughts/feelings to an argument.....you lose.  

If you can't see that the convex nature of that nugget could distort the signal...smh

It was a genuine query, but again comprehension is running low for some...unless your just a troll.  

Gypsy

I apologize for any personal insult I may have inflicted on you. Let's stay on topic gypsy.


What you fail to comprehend is that both coils are reading the same nuggets, so what does it matter which side is up?

Jen58 wrote:
It was picked up.. placed down a few times.. 
We only took the one photo..

To add.. it was placed down in a few different angles.. mostly with the broadest side up.

I appreciate you clarifying that, as it was hard to decipher that from the OP.
I'm sure the specie also looks much different IRL than the pic does any justice to? (age related ailing eyesight)

Did you happen to notice any variables in the results when you changed orientation?

I'm not looking for an excuse to support any argument. I generally don't go to so much bother myself, and i'm interested, as it may be an area i could pay more attention to and improve my own performance.

Every little bit helps.

Also, why do many make such a noise about orientation of "mass" if no real discrepancies are revealed?

Gypsy

slimpickens wrote:
I apologize for any personal insult I may have inflicted on you.

Accepted.


What you fail to comprehend is that both coils are reading the same nuggets, so what does it matter which side is up?

Hey, inform me if i'm wrong, but i don't believe the signal response between the two coils are parallel or lineal, as the pulse timings and power outputs are varied between the two, therefore why we are hearing the 19" coil responds different "audibly" than the 14" does???

If i'm wrong, please advise what it is i am missing??

I concede "air" testing may not reveal that which i was seeking from Jen, likely as a result of the lack of "halo", it just interested me to know.

Gypsy

GypsyGoldAu wrote:

slimpickens wrote:
I apologize for any personal insult I may have inflicted on you.

Accepted.


What you fail to comprehend is that both coils are reading the same nuggets, so what does it matter which side is up?

Hey, inform me if i'm wrong, but i don't believe the signal response between the two coils are parallel or lineal, as the pulse timings and power outputs are varied between the two, therefore why we are hearing the 19" coil responds different "audibly" than the 14" does???

If i'm wrong, please advise what it is i am missing??

I concede "air" testing may not reveal that which i was seeking from Jen.

Gypsy

I think the signal is the same coming back to both coils, but the 19" coil hears / gathers more info.... i dunno.

GypsyGoldAu wrote:

Jen58 wrote:
It was picked up.. placed down a few times.. 
We only took the one photo..

To add.. it was placed down in a few different angles.. mostly with the broadest side up.

I appreciate you clarifying that, as it was hard to decipher that from the OP.
I'm sure the specie also looks much different IRL than the pic does any justice to? (age related ailing eyesight)

Did you happen to notice any variables in the results when you changed orientation?

I'm not looking for an excuse to support any argument. I generally don't go to so much bother myself, and i'm interested, as it may be an area i could pay more attention to and improve my own performance.

Every little bit helps.

Also, why do many make such a noise about orientation of "mass" if no real discrepancies are revealed?

Gypsy

Its hard for me to answer.. 
you really have get your hands on gpz7000 with the coils.. and do your own test's
Everyone will perceive things differently..

All we know is... that how the tests results that the boys found came out.
now Mike and son still want to test it out in the field.. so time will tell.

Now Gypsy i am not going to debate this any more with you..
Thankyou.

Gypsy, you are becoming a serial pest, or should that be a cereal pest?

slimpickens wrote:
I think the signal is the same coming back to both coils, but the 19" coil hears / gathers more info.... i dunno.

Well if it comes down to that, then that starts to sound like Oscilloscope time....and wonder how much "individual" interpretation the new coil really does require from the operator...Time might just be the answer...

Hard to do with an in-situ target though lol.

Gypsy

GypsyGoldAu wrote:... as the pulse timings and power outputs are varied between the two...
Gypsy

Errr, where are you getting this from?
My assumption is that the timings would remain the same the same as with all of the predecessors.
But perhaps that is what this coil needs to shine, different timings and more front end gain.
If it is quieter than the 14 on the ground, then the front end gain(this is not the gain control you have in the menus) should be raised until the ground just starts to become noisy. Then targets will be detected at greater depth.

Cheers Mick

Reg Wilson wrote:Gypsy, you are becoming a serial pest, or should that be a cereal pest?

Letting sweet, little, id out for a stalk,...err, walk, i see Reg.

Hope you can afford to feed it since the 19" let you down.

Mechanic wrote:

GypsyGoldAu wrote:... as the pulse timings and power outputs are varied between the two...
Gypsy

Errr, where are you getting this from?
My assumption is that the timings would remain the same the same as with all of the predecessors.
Cheers Mick

Not being an EE, i got the perception from an earlier post, in this now myriad, of collective wisdom.

Another thing worth a try would be running with manual tune at the lower end of the scale.

Perhaps they got it really right with the 14".

Cheers Mick

Thank you Mike & co for posting your results.
Using your specie you found with your Zed removes any doubts about it not being Zed preferred gold.

What we are seeing in the air test is purely the gain that results from the physical size difference of the coils, and I think you are correct Mike we should see an extra improvement between the two in the 19s favour with subsurface targets, hopefully 50% or more, but probably very ground type dependant.

Cheers
Kev.

Thanks mike jen and tony,bit busy i'll have a better look later but a few of them numbers dont look to bad,especially on the big bit,would of liked to see the gpx with 18 elite cranked up though,it says only factory presets on the gpx test......
BJ been out all day with it,you know the ground a bit where she was,no gold......

Much appreciate your feed back Mike, Jen & crew. Mike,have no doubt, that a slug of gold that size (618gm) found buried siting in its natural state, will be capable of being picked up,by the 14x13 inch coil, in/on average mineralized ground conditions, at around 30 +- inches, give or take an inch.
The 10% part of 3 inches difference, between that of the 19x18 inch coil as compared to the 14x13 inch coil, is the part I have trouble digesting.

Cheers Kon.

Thanks to All,

For the replies we used 2 zeds and Tony's 5000, young Mick had the Z 19 on his and I had the Z 14 on mine.   The nuggets were placed on the ground in the best position so the detectors/coils to see them as far as signal goes.  We did a GB as close as possible without picking up the targets before doing the actual test.   During the test we would lower the coil until we heard them quite loud and clear then while sweeping the coil we slowly raised until the signal faded to no signal. We repeated this until we were happy we could hear it as a dig me signal and then took note of the height on the measuring stick.   Making sure the coil was level with the ground.
G'day Dave, yes we did it with the Zeds as well in the FP.  

Cheers.

Mike.

G'day Kon,

Yes I know what you're saying the tests are way short of the 30% of ML claims.

Cheers.

Mike.

G'day Mike ,thanks for those tests ,being a 5k & 14'' elite owner I found them most interesting as there didn't appear to much increase in the 18'' elite either Just a couple of questions if I could ,what timings where you running the 5k in for the test ? and secondly is it possible with a air test with the 7z ,that due to the slightly bigger  extra RX side the detector is receiving from the coil ,in combination with extra EMI ,even if one can't hear it ,just by simply having the coil that high above the ground ,that it's audio processing / interpretation of the signal is swamped and it perhaps interrupts much of the signal as in being ground noise .And is possible that the 30% increase   would be possible only in rather benign /quite ground ,( and by having the coil much closer to the ground ,less interference/ EMI )'' BUT ALSO''  relying much on the '' HALO EFFECT '' in order for it to interrupt the signal RX . Perhaps another software / update ?
 I must admit here too mate that its late ,and i'm thinking on the ''GO'' here too , but i'm just as curious as you and other Z owners too  

G'day hugh62,

The first test we had all the detectors in the FP, so what ever the 5000's FP was is how it was set at. When we did the second test we only compared the Zeds at their maximum settings, but had the smoothing set to high to block any EMI etc.
hope this helps with your question.

Cheers.

Mike.