The Zed mission.

G.B. wrote:From what l have experienced so far l would recomend at this stage to forget about the using the quick track button and let the detector do its thing in auto.

Also in highly variable ground take your time to work an area of similar type of ground before moving to a differing type of ground eg; iron stone to quartz wash, this will allow the auto ground balance to settle down rather than working overtime trying to continualy adapt to quick changes of ground conditions.

By doing what l have suggested above was the difference from feeling like doing this to the 7000    to being with the 7000

Hi GB, thanks for your input and thoughts on the new machine We are all here to learn, so anybody using one that would like to post a personal view or thoughts on the Zed, go for it guys I would also like to add that the main core of this forum is full of great members and yeah we have a few rough edges as does all forums    but hey that what a forum is, all types of people from all walks of life using all different machines with different out looks on what they find how much they find, to the old guys that would love to be out there doing the tough miles but can now only watch vids and participate over the key board. To me that's gold in itself  to be able to do that It's the outside crud posters with an agenda that gets up my nose.

Interesting thing a Mate and I found a target that tracked out in Diff/HY , there was a faint response , took 3" off and nice load target swung over it a few times and it dissipated to almost nothing another 3" off loud and clear repeated the same as before and the target had gone again , dont know what made me try flicking into Normal but the target was extremely loud and clear and would not track out this time round , ended up being 0.8gr , I just leave auto GB on from the start and not going anywhere near the button at all , it should come with a trigger cover like in Jet to stop you from triggering the GB

Might be worth a shot if you have a target that is disappearing on you

Marty

Just might need to go back and recheck this one ???
Very similar to what you were just saying Marty ...

Yep exactly the same as your vid , I found by changing to Normal the Z appeared to punched deeper with a much cleaner crisper target signal but the main thing was it didnt track out

I'd be going back over that one as well

Marty

It appears that there is some pumping of the coil over the target obviously due to the coil size & width of hole. Do you think the inadvertent pumping could be the cause? Has anyone tried or can the coil edge be used with the DOD?
If it is the pumping it may be that a change of recovery process, maintaining wider holes to allow sweeping or even carrying a pinpointer might be required. Gonna be a pain for deep holes & no pinpointer if moderate pumping causes it?
Seen one nuglet only 0.06 gram recovered with the GPZ & it didn't track out so it's funny how some targets are. Has to be a plausible reason?

Simple just flick in to fixed gb when you get a target.

[quote="gullyhunter"]Just might need to go back and recheck this one ???
Very similar to what you were just saying Marty ...

J Porter Quote "The GB of the GPZ 7000 is extremely refined, generally if a target is sensed the GB will automatically pause to prevent tracking it out"

slimpickens wrote:

gullyhunter wrote:Just might need to go back and recheck this one ???
Very similar to what you were just saying Marty ...

J Porter Quote "The GB of the GPZ 7000 is extremely refined, generally if a target is sensed the GB will automatically pause to prevent tracking it out"

Sure would be nice to get some feedback on this!!!!!!!!!

gullyhunter wrote:Just might need to go back and recheck this one ???
Very similar to what you were just saying Marty ...

GH
Did you try to change settings? re ground balance next to the hole? try with the other GPZ? try to determine in any other way to find that target????

rc62burke wrote:

gullyhunter wrote:Just might need to go back and recheck this one ???
Very similar to what you were just saying Marty ...

GH
Did you try to change settings? re ground balance next to the hole? try with the other GPZ?  try to determine in any other way to find that target????

We have much to learn grasshopper.

rc62burke wrote:

slimpickens wrote:

gullyhunter wrote:Just might need to go back and recheck this one ???
Very similar to what you were just saying Marty ...

J Porter Quote "The GB of the GPZ 7000 is extremely refined, generally if a target is sensed the GB will automatically pause to prevent tracking it out"

Sure would be nice to get some feedback on this!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought, the dealer where you bought your 7000 from should able to help if not contact Minelab, i am sure they are more than qualified to answer any questions you have.

Troopy wrote:

rc62burke wrote:

slimpickens wrote:

gullyhunter wrote:Just might need to go back and recheck this one ???
Very similar to what you were just saying Marty ...

J Porter Quote "The GB of the GPZ 7000 is extremely refined, generally if a target is sensed the GB will automatically pause to prevent tracking it out"

Sure would be nice to get some feedback on this!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought, the dealer where you bought your 7000 from should able to help if not contact Minelab, i am sure they are more than qualified to answer any questions you have.

MinersDen folk to I spoke to today, were given a training day for there sales folk in the last few days.  Not sure who ran it for them, but they are now more comfortable to answer peoples questions.

There are a couple of issues I see in this video which I wanted to comment on. First, the GPZ does sometimes find ground mineralization “targets” (targets that are not real but are instead changes in the mineralization). The last time I had my GPZ out for detecting I took it to a small spot within a larger mining area where I had found a two pennyweight nugget that was down deep as well as some smaller ones. It is a spot that is been well cleaned out with a variety of Minelab PI's and VLFs. I had also found ground mineralization noises that sounded very much like deep targets there with my 5000. When I had dug them with my 5000, I found that the targets sounded better initially after the first little scrape, but digging down deeper they faded to virtually nothing and if I raised the coil back to the level of the ground and swung over it, the target was completely gone. When I brought my GPZ to this spot, it also found the same mineralization spots and sounded off as faint deep sounding targets. Digging down a little bit on them the mineralization spots behaved exactly as they did with the 5000. So I will say that the GPZ is not immune to ground mineralization spots.
Second, in the video the operator runs his GPZ coil as if it were a mono coil (which he probably used on his last Minelab PI). The construction of the DOD coil is that it is made to swing from side to side, not to be pushed forward in and out. A mono coil is symmetrical all the way around the edge and it makes no difference if one swings from side to side or forward and back or out of angle from upper left to lower right or vice versa. The doubled D and DOD coils are made to be swung from side to side, not forward and back or in some other direction. You will not get the best performance out of your DOD coil by pushing it forward and back as the operator did the video and problems with going over uneven and differentially mineralized ground will be made worse as the operator effectively demonstrates in the video. In the white paper just released by Bruce Candy, he makes a point that trying to design a coil for the ZVT technology was a bit difficult because of the inherent sensitivity to uneven ground and mineralization changes. The DOD called design was the answer to this problem, but it really does need to be swung from side to side, not in and out as if it were a mono coil. The DOD coil does behave a bit differently than the coil's most operators have used in the past - it has a different geometry. You cannot just assume that it is exactly like all the coils (especially mono types) which you have used previously.

To be absolutely sure with a situation as shown in the video its a good idea to at the very least perform a power cycle and dump all the GB info and start from scratch, from what I was seeing the GB might have been exposed to an atypical piece of ground at some stage at the start of the session. If in doubt then do a re-set all settings via the Quick Start screen.

Have to say though it was a weird one, especially the audio chirp at the 2 min mark just prior to balancing out the target, I would definitely go back and re-investigate.... would be good to know what settings (*Gold Mode* and *Ground Type*) were being used at the time and if the Quick Trak button had been triggered during the dig.

As for coil sweep etc, if a good GB has been achieved then I see no reason why you can't push the coil as shown in the video, so long as the Quick Trak is not triggered or you continue to push the coil that way when performing a Ground Balance at the beginning or during the session. I preset the User Button function for *Ground Balance Mode* so I can quickly go to and fro from Tracking to Fixed. The part of the GB that is sensitive to atypical ground moves very slowly once the initial part of the GB process is completed, but if the electronics can't differentiate you could get varied results.

ZVT is totally new and there will be some behaviors that are a lot different to previous models, part of the learning curve is to become confident with the detector and what it is telling you in your particular gold field.

JP

Edit: Just re-watched the video and would say the GB was out in that instance, probably a good idea to get a good wide sweep over a suspect target and perhaps even move around the general area for a bit then come back in over the target zone to compare/check/confirm then fix the GB before proceeding to dig or trying to pinpoint.

Thanks Chris

Good explanation about what is happening there.  Old habits die hard, and we just have to remember now that this new machine is different to the GPX 5000/4500's and the coil also need to be treated differently to what we have been used to for so long.

cheers dave

PS: That's a good tip JP about setting the User Button to get from "tracking " to "fixed"

Thanks for the info Chris and JP, very helpful.

3 days ago, i was out with the GPZ and i dug around 15 deep sounding "targets" which i could have sworn were gold. Started faint then got louder after a few scrapes, and really sounding like a nice positive signal, but then just faded away into nothing as i got deeper. I even swung super slow initially and the "targets" had that textbook low high signal. I was lucky to have an SDC near by which confirmed that there was noting there as i got closer.

On my 16th dig and hearing the exact same target response initially, after about the 3rd scrape this one got louder and you could then tell that this was a different story. I pinned an 11.6g chunk at 15 inches . So it really pays to investigate every target.

Quite few of theses false targets were at the base of trees. I don't know if that has any correlation but apparently the GPZ picks up the water content in the tree roots? Has any one else had this?

slimpickens wrote:  

J Porter Quote "The GB of the GPZ 7000 is extremely refined, generally if a target is sensed the GB will automatically pause to prevent tracking it out"

[/quote]

Sorry, did someone explain this: Why the Zed's GB didn't automatically pause when it sensed Gullyhunter's target. I can't seem to find the answer.

Reno Chris wrote: Second, in the video the operator runs his GPZ coil as if it were a mono coil (which he probably used on his last Minelab PI). The construction of the DOD coil is that it is made to swing from side to side, not to be pushed forward in and out.

The DOD coil is a complete coil isn't it? Why wouldn't it pick up a target on the 2 short ends of the loop/coil?

'

Hi guys ,
thanks for the suggestions and info in regards to what happened with the signal in the vid , In particular JP and reno Chris for their explanations , possible causes of this and possible remedies …

A bit of history on this target , after starting up the Zed I took great care in making sure that I performed a text book GB – which I feel I did . The target was located approx. 80- 100 mtrs from where I GB`d the Zed … ( it was running sweet ) . When  the coil went over the target it sounded real nice to me - clear , soft , pronounced and defined , what the vid didn’t show was me swinging over the target from all directions as well as swinging the coil over the ground around it before checking the target again . I was doing this while waiting for Greg to come over …
I did not depress the quick track button at all since I first GB`d it , and basically once the signal disappeared I did not try any of the forementioned suggestions to double check it again .
I understand about hot pockets etc but the funny thing was I did not get any other hot pockets like this one in the whole area ( and we detected it all day ) .

I agree with JP with the forward and backward motion of the coil when checking the target as most of the other bits of gold I have dug out with the Zed I have done it like this with no issues that I am aware of .
I have taken the information freely given by JP and RC and will go back to retest this target again just to be sure , this is all part of the learning process for me with the new technology in the Zed and again I sincerely thank them for sharing their knowledge with the people that genuinely want to learn . I will vid “ round 2” and post up the results this weekend ...

My settings were as follows :
General
Difficult
Sensitivity – 7
Audio smoothing – Off
Ground Balance – Auto

I know this is new technology but thinking back using the old detectors I had targets disappear and then come back as the hole got deeper. Could this be the same thing happening with the Zed?

I have dug onto several targets that you would have sworn were something good deep. Nice low defined groans. One I was convinced was a target as it got louder the deeper I dug and even said to the misses "this'll be a goodie" as it was in virgin ground and only several feet from where I once got a good deep bit. 100% turned out to be nothing but minerals. I have never heard a machine sound off so positive to mineral pockets like this thing and for them to vanish so suddenly. All the hallmarks of good deep signals which turn out to be nothing. Got to live with it though, but it is annoying when they sound so positive. Par for the course with the 7 I think.

I've dug two really good signals at the base of trees that turned out to be nothing. An important point is that the signals didn't improve as I dug down, or even slightly decreased. The 14 inch coil and needing a side to side motion made things a little difficult - especially as tree roots were involved with the first target. Poking in a 6 inch coil on the end of a 4500 gave no signal (I thought "you bewdy - it's a really deep target !!!!!" - and kept on digging!!!) I am going to be extremely wary near the base of trees in future and will be definitely wanting the signal to brighten up.
Cheers,
bowy

slimpickens wrote:

Reno Chris wrote:  Second, in the video the operator runs his GPZ coil as if it were a mono coil (which he probably used on his last Minelab PI). The construction of the DOD coil is that it is made to swing from side to side, not to be pushed forward in and out.  

The DOD coil is a complete coil isn't it? Why wouldn't it pick up a target on the 2 short ends of the loop/coil?

'

Because the centre loop is the transmit coil, and the outside D's are receive coils
It MUST be swung side to side to work correctly.

yellowfin wrote:

slimpickens wrote:

Reno Chris wrote:  Second, in the video the operator runs his GPZ coil as if it were a mono coil (which he probably used on his last Minelab PI). The construction of the DOD coil is that it is made to swing from side to side, not to be pushed forward in and out.  

The DOD coil is a complete coil isn't it? Why wouldn't it pick up a target on the 2 short ends of the loop/coil?

'

Because the centre loop is the transmit coil, and the outside D's are receive coils
It MUST be swung side to side to work correctly.

I am not 100% sure this is correct, if you have a look at the video in the link, it would appear that JP is pushing the coil forward & back once he gets 4" or so down & knows he has something good, seems alot of speculation.

JP would be good to get your view on this, to clear up any misconceptions.
http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/694-gpz-7000-vs-gpx-5000-video-by-jp/

bowy wrote:I've dug two really good signals at the base of trees that turned out to be nothing.

I've had this happen a few times also. Nice signal then....
In vid below we also had a 5000 going that got no signal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP1qsVpEsFQ

rc62burke wrote:

yellowfin wrote:

slimpickens wrote:

Reno Chris wrote:  Second, in the video the operator runs his GPZ coil as if it were a mono coil (which he probably used on his last Minelab PI). The construction of the DOD coil is that it is made to swing from side to side, not to be pushed forward in and out.  

The DOD coil is a complete coil isn't it? Why wouldn't it pick up a target on the 2 short ends of the loop/coil?

'

Because the centre loop is the transmit coil, and the outside D's are receive coils
It MUST be swung side to side to work correctly.

I am not 100% sure this is correct, if you have a look at the video in the link, it would appear that JP is pushing the coil forward & back once he gets 4" or so down & knows he has something good, seems alot of speculation.

JP would be good to get your view on this, to clear up any misconceptions.
http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/694-gpz-7000-vs-gpx-5000-video-by-jp/

As with any double D coil it's easy to overcome, just turn 90 degrees to the target.

rc62burke wrote:

yellowfin wrote:

slimpickens wrote:

Reno Chris wrote:  Second, in the video the operator runs his GPZ coil as if it were a mono coil (which he probably used on his last Minelab PI). The construction of the DOD coil is that it is made to swing from side to side, not to be pushed forward in and out.  

The DOD coil is a complete coil isn't it? Why wouldn't it pick up a target on the 2 short ends of the loop/coil?

'

Because the centre loop is the transmit coil, and the outside D's are receive coils
It MUST be swung side to side to work correctly.

I am not 100% sure this is correct, if you have a look at the video in the link, it would appear that JP is pushing the coil forward & back once he gets 4" or so down & knows he has something good, seems alot of speculation.

JP would be good to get your view on this, to clear up any misconceptions.
http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/694-gpz-7000-vs-gpx-5000-video-by-jp/

Hi Lee, yeah mate we did not have a problem pointing the nose of the coil in of the Zed on that 6 or seven grammer, it's in the vid And I am ptetty sure JP said some where if the machine is ground balanced properly foward motion was not a problem on a target. Been reading that much of late not sure where it was,maybe JP could clarify?

bloodgold2 wrote:

rc62burke wrote:

yellowfin wrote:

slimpickens wrote:

Reno Chris wrote:  Second, in the video the operator runs his GPZ coil as if it were a mono coil (which he probably used on his last Minelab PI). The construction of the DOD coil is that it is made to swing from side to side, not to be pushed forward in and out.  

The DOD coil is a complete coil isn't it? Why wouldn't it pick up a target on the 2 short ends of the loop/coil?

'

Because the centre loop is the transmit coil, and the outside D's are receive coils
It MUST be swung side to side to work correctly.

I am not 100% sure this is correct, if you have a look at the video in the link, it would appear that JP is pushing the coil forward & back once he gets 4" or so down & knows he has something good, seems alot of speculation.

JP would be good to get your view on this, to clear up any misconceptions.
http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/694-gpz-7000-vs-gpx-5000-video-by-jp/

Hi Lee, yeah mate we did not have a problem pointing the nose of the coil in of the Zed on that 6 or seven grammer, it's in the vid And I am ptetty sure JP said some where if the machine is ground balanced properly foward motion was not a problem on a target. Been reading that much of late not sure where it was,maybe JP could clarify?

I agree with Reno Chris on this, DD and DOD coils are designed to be swung from side to side.
But If sticking the nose of the coil down the hole works for you then that's all that really matters.
There is a section in the 7000 manual on pinpointing.
Oh and JP's post is just below Reno Chris's post just a few posts up.

This is on the ML website - REPORTED BY JP '

My experiences with the GPZ 7000 have varied from reasonable to nothing short of amazing. The results have been in the form of tiny nuggets that compete with the SDC 2300 to nice mid-sized pieces clearly missed by the GPX 5000, and then on to jaw dropping occasions where I’ve found numerous large slugs up to 15 ounces that were at great depth. Using the supplied GPZ 14 coil .


Wow how good is that hey ? up to 15 ounces at great depth & other Numerous large slugs !  
We should be seeing similar results Now ' with so many 7000s out on the fields .
 

jack .

Hi Jack out West In replying to your post about nuggets 15 ozs plus. I will answer your question with a question to you not other members but they may have a think about it. Jack since you have been detecting how many nuggets have you yourself found 15 ozs plus? I have been detecting for over 30 years and I would say probably 15 and that maybe incorrect it may be less. The ones I have found are no longer in the ground to be detected. For the 7000 to have this aver launch of large nuggets to be found. The nuggets have to still be in the ground to be detected. There are still large nuggets out there to be found but not in abundance. My observation is they are a bit short on the ground. You here of them now and then. Like the one in Vic recently. If they are being found most people would be tight lipped about what they find especially if it is a large one.