Why are coil manufacturers not focusing on weight?

Hi all,
While we see more shapes and sizes of coils enter the equation, how many suppliers are not only focused on performance but on weight as well?
Without mentioning manufacturers there are top coils on the market you can swing all day and there are those that pull you up after a few hours.
Are these manufacturers striving for the altimate performance opposed to weight at the detriment of those who have to carry them?

Peter

I thought nugget finder was well and truly onto the weight issue then coiltek jumped into the race yet minelab seem to be very stuck in their ways.
I might be alone on this little side issue, but why is the rest of the detector so heavy? The control box could easily be lighter and with the price of detectors a graphite shaft wouldn't be out of the question. Lets face it the whole set up could do with a trip to Jenny Craig.
As far as the after market guys go, I feel they are listening to the end user.
To point out the obvious. If mobile phones were to be compared to detectors and the amount of technology packed into them, then mobiles would be sold with a wheel barrow to carry them in. I know that the number of products sold is what enables profit to refine any product but surely weight can be trimmed without to much expense.
Making our whole set up lighter would surely mean that more people can use them and use them longer and if all works well then more gold is found and then more people upgrade more often. Sounds like a winner for the retailers or am I missing something?
Brett.

Intersting point i have often pondered. One reason maybe a marketing issue. I am no expert but I guess they could easily shrink it to the size of an Xterra, however could they then justify the premium price these detectors command. We are customed to seeing the blue control box and linking this with a high end product, a simple and smaller Xterra system with a lower price. Well thats my thinking on why they are this size/shape/weight. Cheers Goldfever

Good subject! Weight is often the main issue for new users and long-time detectorists. Including me. Their first choice for their backup or primary coil is almost always decided after a consideration about weight. Something worth noting is that earlier designs using an injected foam/fiberglass filler around the windings (which prevents the wire from moving) led to the coil flexing and then triggered a false signal in early versions. This drove a lot of people crazy when these coils were first on the market. But they felt light so people bought them. The difference in weight was only slight yet a lot of people will go right for the lightest coil on the assumption that all coils have the same performance and this isn't quite the case.
I think metal detectors today are amazing since they can read down at such great depth and the whole device weighs so little (assuming you're not using a Gel-Cell). The difference of 200 grams in weight is nothing if the performance of the heavier coil exceeds the lighter one for the purpose for which it is obtained.

I recently spent a couple of evenings sketching designs that I might volunteer to pass on to the appropriate parties as a suggestion to slim down and refine the look of detectors in future. I'd like to see them look more in tune with the design themes of 2008! Can't hurt to turn in a few drawings, right? First appearance is actually much more important than most manufacturers realize. The issue I have with current designs is ONLY that they haven't changed outwardly since the 80s and early 90s. That's partly because they're actually pretty efficient as they stand. And they've been designed to break down into basic "modules" to allow easy replacement and upgrades. If you pick up a GP/SD or a GPX detector, you'll find the weight is very nicely distributed from end to end. Even the 3500 feels great in the hands. Add the bungee cable and it's easy to wield (until a heavier coil is attached). It's some of the smaller elements which I don't like: The switches and (on some models) the LCD appear slightly dated somewhat. But the aesthetic design of the control box case is easy to alter in future so that just leaves the weight and convenience issue.

The GPX-4500 (for example, since it's one of the more recent detectors) has a new Lithium-Ion battery which is not only far lighter than earlier Gel-Cell batteries, but contains the booster as well. The harness is better designed for long-term carry and obvious improvements to the processors mean we get a lighter, more efficient system with that particular detector.

The issue then might not be performance or appearance, but coils. Every time I see someone buying a new GPX, the first thing they don't seem to grasp is the need for a suitable coil for the type of ground, terrain and depth they need to use it on. The Nugget Finders are certainly very popular but it's their light weight (by comparison) which makes them so attractive. The slight difference in weight is no guarantee of being the best coil for the job of course. But who do they rely on for suggestions other than the sales person? Their friends usually step in to advice them to buy what they themselves use. I'm particularly fond of the Commander coils and their build quality (just personal preference though, not a statement). The litz wire used is pretty darned effective and I understand that this wire has been sold on to another coil manufacturer to use. The weight of using resin over foam makes a difference of nearly 30% yet people still pick different brands and I've looked into why this might be so. It appears that they are influenced by what they see in the Gem & Treasure mags and the pictures or online videos (eg YouTube) which tends to sway them into a particular brand of coil. The larger coils result in more depth etc but with the added weight, these coils can get very nose heavy so at 18" diameter and over, I can see why people go for the lightest coils they can find, regardless of performance. I'd prefer the best performance though.

In the last 7 years, technology in most electronics has been considerably reduced, especially fine gears and motors such as those used in Image Stabilization on Digital Cameras. But the boards, processors etc on the majority of detectors haven't seen the same drive for size reduction. There's a lot less competition to drive the technology at the high end of Electronic Prospecting. Even if future models are released with a lighter, smaller profile, you'll still need the same shaft lengths, disc sizes and counter-balances in place. So don't expect much more than a 20% size reduction on control boxes and 50% weight reduction in batteries over the next 3 to 5 years if other technology can be used as a guide. Remember that the voltage used by the high end Super Detectors means heavy duty connections etc. So no X-Terra type weights for quite some time, if at all. As for coil weight, stop by a supply store some time and ask to handle the heaviest and mid-weight coils. I'm pleasantly surprised at just how light they are. Only marginally heavier than the lightest designs on the current market. And for those using a super large coil, there's an extra strength bungee available to offset the additional weight.

I, myself, have just spent a few weeks weighing up the benefits of three very different coils and for the life of me, I found it very hard to make a decision. The element causing me the largest amount of reconsideration was coil weight vs performance. Conclusion: I've opted to pass on discrimination (which is unreliable at depth anyway) and go for max-depth via a mono loop coil. I've chosen to get the heavier coil simply because I'm convinced it's going to be the best performance coil for the detector itself. If I'm going to carry all that stuff out there in the heat, I want to get the best results at maximum depth via the coil, not just rely on detector settings.

Hi
Nj the new coiltek 18 round mono hits the spot ,had a swing of one ,couldnt tell you its exact weight but it felt like a 11dd was on the end of the stem.As for me still prefer DDs in Vic so hopefully waiting for lightweight 18 round DD.
Cheers Dig