whats best for a newbie 4500 or ?

Hi would a GPX4500 be too complicated for a newbie without any experience at to use?
Would he be better off with an earlier machine until he gathers experience?

Art...if you were learning to drive would you go find some old junker with a manual trans, clutch and no sincro-gears??? Probably not. Same with detectors, start with the best you can afford and enjoy the ease that modern technology gives the user.
This in no way implies that an older Minelab Pi is not an excellent tool for the nubians...they will all get gold IF you learn the machine and wave the coil over a detectable piece of gold.
The User and the place are more key to success than the tool...

Fred

Gday Artrix


Firstly you would have to be able to lay your hands on a gpx4500 first, because of late they are as rare as rocking horse poop and three times the price.

Although Fred has made a valid point on having the best available, I seriously think that to get the best out of the 4500 you really have to have some background experience with pi detectors, many of the issues you hear about from operators are due to lack of experience with these detectors, they are not a switch on and go machine like people suggest, sure you can use the factory preset functions and just run it like that.

But the minute you start to mess about with the menu and settings you have to have at least some idea what you are doing, you can make these machines perform really well or you can make them run really poorly too, under some conditions the emi can make these machines squeel like a stuck pig and be so bad it renders it useless, unless you know what you can do to minimise these issues and tweek it about until its useable again you may as well be walking about with a pointy stick for all the good its going to do for you.

I am not trying to frighten you out of buying one if you can, but my advice would be to start with something a bit more basic for a short time, and then work your way up to it, frankly its a lot of cash to outlay for a new detector and coils and batteries etc etc, and then find out that you dont even like doing it, if you are already experienced in the field with other machines and you already know what you are getting yourself into, and if you like to research and experiment with things then go for it, there is plenty of information available on the web and forums like this that can steer you the right way.

This reminded me of when I reluctantly took a mate of a mate on a bush trip with me, he bought his gp4000 off the mate, and had only used an sd 2100 prior to that, and had a reasonable amount of experience in the field, anyway after the initial adjustments and tuning he was on his way, or so I thought, I even had him on a patch that I hadnt worked too hard and was still producing gold, well every 15 minutes or so he was back, can you tune this again, started to give me the shits, he was like a bloody monkey, everytime I turned my back he was at the knobs and flicking through the menu, didnt have a clue, then he was getting the shits because I was getting gold and he wasnt, I even used it for awhile and located a piece for him to dig, anyway I cracked the shits and told him if he changed it one more time I would slap him

Of course this wasnt his fault it was purely a lack of experience with this type of machine.



cheers

stayyerAU

Art; an addendum to my previous missive...in the january issue of the Australian GG&T there is an excellent article that covers much of the information you are looking for, only 5.25 at your local news stand...

I think S makes a good argument, except that I have met operators of every grade of detector having fits over their machine. They invaribly have similar problems like his friend because they don't read the manual and learn their machine...

perhaps you could rent/borrow a 2200, 3000/3500 and then a 4500...use before you buy, if you can.

Nugget hunting may seem easy and a sure way to easy riches...but it just ain't so for most...you have to love the pursuit.

fred

Artrix, When I was 18 I had used a fisher a couple of times, I never picked up a detector for another 18 years, although I had thought about getting back into it over the years. When I decided to get back into the detecting thing again I started to research what machines were out there. I didn't want to spend more than about $1500. Usual story though, the more I researched the more I learned and eventually decided to go for the 4000 I went to buy myself a machine and as luck would have it it was just before the release of the 4500 so I decided to put my name down and do the wait for a few weeks.
I must say that I was glad I did, as stated above a newbie would have a bit of trouble getting thier head around the controls, BUT that is why there is a manual that comes with the machine and it fits right into your back pocket while you are out in the field. I did run in factory presets for a start, and found gold in my third outing, two nuggets which were over 3grams and another subgrammer.
As problems would arise in the field I would read the manual, get home and read the manual, go detecting and in the field read the manual, make notes in the back and so on.
After reading through some of the posts on here about the 4500 you will soon find that it was not just the newbies that were triing to get thier head around these machines but also some of the seasoned operators as well, hence all of the disscussion.
The minelab training day that is offered is a good thing to do, no doubt you will learn something.(and extends your warranty)
My advice is if you are not experienced in detecting then you will have to learn to drive any machine that you buy, I know which machine I would prefer to set up to go detecting between the old fisher and the new PI 4500, hang the fisher on the wall beside the old cane fishing rod, (to the guy that has my old fisher, stick with it!!) so therefore if you know that you will enjoy the hobby buy a machine that best fits your budget!! If you are unsure whether you will like it then maybe hire a few different kinds of machines and give them a test drive first. Maybe you even know someone that detects alot, ask if you could tag along so you to could enjoy the hobby.
I found it is hard to obtain information as a newbie, but on the other hand if someone is thinking of getting into to detecting we offer all kinds of advice and recommendations to get them hooked and then they are own thier own so to speak. Joining a club would be a good way to knowledge and field experience. I was going to join the Geelong prospecting club but then moved up here to the desert and no clubs for miles, but I have met some great people from this forum and other forums that I regularly go prospecting with, and that are genuine people that you would invite around for a bbq and get together. Anyway getting off track abit here but the moral of the story is that buy a machine that you think you will be happy with, learn that machine and know it!!! and the rewards will come.
hope this helps & Cheers

Thanx for the replies I was just thinking of the young guy that gets his licence and goes out to buy a car, we would not recommend geting a Ferrari with no real experience and I was wondering if the same thing would apply with detectors. I actually bought a GPX4500 for an amazing price and I was thinking should I sell it for a profit and buy a gp3500 maybe..... assuming that they are easier to master. I could probably get one( gp3500) very cheaply once I sell the 4500..? I have been reading the maual and it is definately a lot to take in particularly for someone with no previous experience.... Thanx again for the input any more would be gratefully recieved

artrix,

keep the 4500, dont sell it for a profit, master the machine and you will find more gold the you would with the 3500 why go backwards when you have the best detector available...john..

Artrix, the other thing that you could do if this is the road you are thinking of travelling is to goto the minelab website and download the operating instructions for the 3500, then see how you would go with that!! http://www.minelab.com/aus/products/consumer/product-archive/gp-3500?view=faq if you are selling your 4500 for a BIG profit why not then invest in another 4500 and the cream off the top is the profit??

If say a young bloke did have a ferrari would you recommend that he downgrade to a vn commodore
As I stated if ones budget allows it then why not!!!!
I know that I would not trade my 16ft fishing boat in for a 12ft boat, upsize though is a different story.
Life is full of choices, your life your choice.
Cheers

yes all good points would you say that the gp3500 was as complex to master as the 4500 appears to be?

artrix --- in my opinion the 3500 is MORE complex to understand then the 4500.

the 4500 is way more userfriendly, with the factory setting, and the quieter machine.

for a newchum they will both be hard to learn but the 4500 will get you gold, if you walk over it, because you will hear it better, then once you start to experiement on the various noises you are getting, they will continue to be more obvious and you will streak ahead in the learning curve. i introduced a newchum to the game this year, with a new 4500, and after three months of detecting he has amassed about 200grams, his machine is already paid for. mind you he hits the books a lot and will give many a experienced chap a run for his money when it comes to READING THE LAND. with a top GPS, laptop, and a desire to learn i am very impressed. hope you can follow in his footsteps ..... kev

thanx kev

Artrix, I have only had my 45 for a short while but read the manual from cover to cover and have played with it a lot in pretty hot ground. It actually is not really very difficult to master if you go slowly through the manual and actually understand what each function actually does.
What is great is that all the settings have the factory presets "FP" indicated at the recommended points. So play with one setting at a time test it and understand what it's doing then try something else.
This forum has really experienced guys that will also assist you. I read JP's post on the mono settings and they work really well with some small adjustments for different soils and size coils.
I marked in the manual which settings applied more to DD coils and which more to mono....makes it easier to understand. I am just blown away at how sensitive this machine is...really incredible.

artrix. i'll give u an example. i have a GP extreme, but i think the overall experience will benefit you and back up exactly what stayyer said.

I've owned this machine for about 2 months. The settings were my settings and this was my first detector. I thought i had it pretty dialed in.

Last week i was fortunate enough to meet up with 4 fellow detectorists at a local gold field where 2 guys were running 5000's and had previously owned an extreme.

Well my settings picked up a .2g piece in an air test at about 4 inches.

Their settings on my machine picked up the same piece of gold at about 6 inches.

So like others have said. Read the manual and/or find someone that has had experience with the machine to dial your machine in and leave teh settings there until u learn what you are doing.

Buy a small 0.3g piece of gold off ebay as a test piece ($15 delivered).

Thanx for all the replies but the original post I made on this subject was in january since then I have covered a lot of ground with the 4500 including a few weeks in clermont.
I am surprised that the post has surfaced again after so long but thanks all for oyur inputs.