Is Deep the same as winding up the gain?

Hi all,
I have a simle question but one that confuses me is running the 5000 or 4500 in deep the same as running the gain high.

If not what advantage is deep over normal?

Cheers
Marty

harrysheroes wrote:Hi all,
I have a simle question but one that confuses me is running the 5000 or 4500 in deep the same as running the gain high.

If not what advantage is deep over normal?

Cheers
Marty

No to the first question, and the advantage of deep and normal is that they are just 2 predefined sets of factory settings to give a starting point, some like to run in deep some like to run in normal. Both can be adjusted to what suits you best.

cheers dave

Marty
I think you will also find when in deep the gain and stabiliser settings will be different to normal allowing more EMI to come in as well
I like Normal depending on ground condition

Marty

if you read your users manual, it will tell you the diferent settings between the two settings.

Hi Martin R
I agree with you i prefer normal over deep and just altering setting to suit conditions,
Deep seems to alter the tone so i suppose its all about what suits your ear huh.

Cheers
Marty

Harry,
just a quick answer to your comment about Deep altering the tones;

Those tones are just a factory choice.
You can change it to any tone you like, i.e. the one that suits your hearing best.

What I do is go through all the presets
and change the tone to the tone-number that I am most comfortable with.

And,

Normal and Deep are two different groups of settings.
They work for different conditions - not necessarily as a choice in any condition.
The manual explains some of this and there are some very informative threads that
get into detail as to why this is so.


fwiw,

G'day Harrysheroes.

Deep mode is not the same as winding up the gain. Gain is independent of all timings.When you place it in Deep mode,the timing changes (pulse beat rate slows down) increasing your depth on larger slugs at depth.I don't believe its just a matter of preference and what one prefers in using(each timing to be used according to the the type of soil conditions and the size and type of gold that your after).Normal timing,is the standard general purpose search mode offering the best overall performance over most ground conditions and for the majority of nugget size,however,when scanning over deeper ground for larger slugs of gold at depth and your waiting to hear that faintest of signals,that's where deep mode plays its optimum role and that's exactly what it was designed for(larger slugs at greater depths).

Cheers kon61.

kon61 wrote:

G'day Harrysheroes.

Deep mode is not the same as winding up the gain. Gain is independent of all timings.When you place it in Deep mode,the timing changes (pulse beat rate slows down) increasing your depth on larger slugs at depth.I don't believe its just a matter of preference and what one prefers in using(each timing to be used according to the the type of soil conditions and the size and type of gold that your after).Normal timing,is the standard general purpose search mode offering the best overall performance over most ground conditions and for the majority of nugget size,however,when scanning over deeper ground for larger slugs of gold at depth and your waiting to hear that faintest of signals,that's where deep mode plays its optimum role and that's exactly what it was designed for(larger slugs at greater depths).

Cheers kon61.

Where did you get this from? Deep has nothing to do with timings. This is only a factory preset for a search mode. It has a very slow motion setting and a slightly higher gain than general mode. It also uses the Deep Audio setting. You can adjust this mode to whatever you want and can make it identical to the other modes.

G'day Echidna.

Very interesting.This is my understanding of "Deep Mode" and feel free to correct me if i have misinterpreted the whole scenario and am completely wrong,in what I believed it to be.
Although it is stated in the manual that "Deep Mode" is a particular type of search mode,that has its own factory preset settings to suit that particular style of searching and that it is through the soil timings that allow the changing of the electronic pulses of the detector,so as to achieve optimum performance on different soil and target types through the use of certain combinations of pulse patterns. If Deep Mode is regarded as a type of factory preset for a search mode only and is not regarded as a type of "deep search timing" in itself,how then is it designed to go deeper on larger targets at depth than what "General Mode" can.

Cheers kon61.

kon61 wrote: If Deep Mode is regarded as a type of factory preset for a search mode only and is not regarded as a type of "deep search timing" in itself,how then is it designed to go deeper on larger targets at depth than what "General Mode" can. Cheers kon61.

It dosn't, as you can set up the "general" search mode to be exactly the same as the "deep" search mode.

It is only the soil timings switch the changes to pulse which is then used by which ever search mode you have chosen.

This is from the 4500 manual for soil timings. "Soil/Timings
(pg. 36) allows you to change the electronic pulses/timings of the detector to optimise performance for different soils and target types."

This is from the 4500 manual for search mode. "Search Mode
(pg. 28) Each Mode has factory preset settings to suit that style of searching. Search Modes can also be customised to suit different detecting conditions."

cheers dave

Thanks Dave,this is where I'm a little confused.For if we can set up the General search mode to do exactly the same job as that of the Deep Mode,what would be the purpose of having a Deep mode put in and then stating as far back as the SD2200,that Deep Mode was designed and optimized for "maximum depth,sensitivity,as well as threshold stability on large deep targets? Just a little confusing to me.Anyway according to the 4500/5000 manual,Echidna and yourself are correct in what you have stated. Appreciate the feedback gents.

Cheers kon61.

Yes kon61 there are a lot of choises to be had, and to just make it a bit more interesting you can also set up the custom mode to be exactly the same, so in fact you would have 3 modes all the same, why I don't know. I have the 3 modes set differently that way you can flick the switch between the 3 if you want and have them set up as you want them.

Then you can select a soil timing you want to use with the mode you have selected, you can flick between enhance, normal and special, (which will get you into fine gold setting) so you can in effect quickly compare a target signal with 3 modes and 3 soil timings fairly quickly, no wonder it can get confusing.

cheers dave

davsgold wrote:Then you can select a soil timing you want to use with the mode you have selected, you can flick between enhance, normal and special, (which will get you into fine gold setting) so you can in effect quickly compare a target signal with 3 modes and 3 soil timings fairly quickly, no wonder it can get confusing.

cheers dave

Dave, I think you answered the reason for the different modes exactly. Also, since all areas we detect are slightly different, it makes sense that the different modes should be adjustable to get the most out of the conditions for the day.

Kon, with so many choices and variables, it is very easy to get confused. Happens to me every time the wife asks me to pick up something from Woolies
Cheers Frank.

Well Frank,that explains it in full.I dare not mention shopping with the wife.Its hard enough shopping for them when there not there and a bl**dy nightmare when your with them. No wonder we run for the hills every chance we get.

Cheers gents kon61.

kon61 wrote:

Thanks Dave,this is where I'm a little confused.For if we can set up the General search mode to do exactly the same job as that of the Deep Mode,what would be the purpose of having a Deep mode put in and then stating as far back as the SD2200,that Deep Mode was designed and optimized for "maximum depth,sensitivity,as well as threshold stability on large deep targets? Just a little confusing to me.Anyway according to the 4500/5000 manual,Echidna and yourself are correct in what you have stated. Appreciate the feedback gents.

Cheers kon61.

DEEP audio gets me confused as I have read DEEP mode with DEEP audio can be more noisier than GENERAL mode with DEEP audio. Now if both DEEP and GENERAL search modes were set with the exact same settings with DEEP audio would DEEP mode be noisier and you would say NO as both search modes should then run the same. However I have tried this and General mode still seems smoother WHY?

WMG

Wantmoregold wrote:

kon61 wrote:

Thanks Dave,this is where I'm a little confused.For if we can set up the General search mode to do exactly the same job as that of the Deep Mode,what would be the purpose of having a Deep mode put in and then stating as far back as the SD2200,that Deep Mode was designed and optimized for "maximum depth,sensitivity,as well as threshold stability on large deep targets? Just a little confusing to me.Anyway according to the 4500/5000 manual,Echidna and yourself are correct in what you have stated. Appreciate the feedback gents.

Cheers kon61.

DEEP audio gets me confused as I have read DEEP mode with DEEP audio can be more noisier than GENERAL mode with DEEP audio. Now if both DEEP and GENERAL search modes were set with the exact same settings with DEEP audio would DEEP mode be noisier and you would say NO as both search modes should then run the same. However I have tried this and General mode still seems smoother WHY?

WMG

G'day WMG

Then it's just one of those things that happen because its the soil timings that you chose to suit the settings that your using in which ever search mode you want to be in. Its the search modes that you can change the settings for in which ever one you want but the soil timings are what they are.

Normal will get the most outright depth but if the ground noise is to great to use this timing then you will need to use enhance or fine gold, it may not go as deep but you get more depth as such because it cancels the ground noise and you can hear the signals, when in normal a signal may well be there and deeper but if you can't hear it above the ground noise then it no use.

Salt gold and course salt timing will get about the same depth as normal timing but handles the ground noise a bit better.

Deep in the audio is just a filter not a timing. Deep on the front switch is a predefined search mode and is able to be changed by the user to what ever you want it to be.

cheers dave

All the factory presets would have been setup from a lot of R&D, so should be looked upon as worthy settings when contemplating there use.

The deep audio setting is not a favorite of mine, in fact i despise its nagging groan, but hundreds of users from the SD-GP series detectors found it to be one of the best and most used settings combined with sensitive, while many still use it on the GPX series.

Deep from memory takes a means of the threshold...it has an amplifying effect as well as a clipping effect, it clips the highs & lows from the audio signal smoothing it out some. Jp best describes its function better then i can, but it is a very powerful filter and now days with the extra settings on the GPX models it can be put to good use swinging big coils looking for deep gold once your aware of what it really does.
From my experiences with the use of Deep Audio, i found it better used with bigger coils looking for the deeper sigs, a slightly faster swing speed and on ground known for big/deep gold.
If your contemplating using it on the GPX models, take a look at the settings the factory has set aside for its use, they tell you something and were not just random settings to fill in a gap.
As much as i dislike the audio produced from using deep, it has its place and the savvy may benefit from conditioning him/her self from its use.

I have my 4500 set up in 3 different settings, General is my concoction and changes frequently to deal with the days ambiance and is set fairly aggressive most of the time, Deep is set up as General FP with only the tone changed to that of my concoction(60) while Custom is setup with another concoction somewhere between FP General and FP Deep, using the Deep audio setting. This gives you 3 different opinions over a target displaying difficulties like others have mentioned above. Combine this with the ability to serve it up with a number of different timings and its easy to get lost in the menu system. Thats why i reckon its time for a dedicated rotary switch just for the timings, that'll free up some of the confusion with timings and settings. However once your accustom to the menu and timings its really not very hard at all.

Wantmoregold wrote:

DEEP audio gets me confused as I have read DEEP mode with DEEP audio can be more noisier than GENERAL mode with DEEP audio. Now if both DEEP and GENERAL search modes were set with the exact same settings with DEEP audio would DEEP mode be noisier and you would say NO as both search modes should then run the same. However I have tried this and General mode still seems smoother WHY?

WMG

Thanks for your input Dave and Narrawa.

I prefer DEEP Audio over NORMAL Audio but why my DEEP Audio prefers to operate in GENERAL Search Mode than in DEEP Search Mode when all settings have been set the same INCLUDING with the SAME TIMING, that sure has me confused SO it must be one of those things that happens with one GPX and not another.

WMG

Wantmoregold, reading over your posts one can only say that a full FP reset be done in all 3 switch positions to restore your detector to the factory settings and try again. Not sure you need to do it in all 3 if selecting to reset all. I did just to be sure.

If you select Deep on the front of the detector, it will show DEEP as the menu heading above the motion filters. If you select General, it will do the same. Your not getting confused with the deep in the menu heading and DEEP in the Audio filters by any chance.?

Just to clarify a little, if you select Deep on the front of the detector after a full reset, Deep in the audio should be selected automatically along with the Response being in INV = inverted. if you select General the audio will be set to NRM= normal in the audio filters.

it is unfortunate that "Deep" is a front end cap factory preset and the name of an audio filter.
I have seen lots of people get very confused by this.

Folks also get mixed up by forgetting that in order to use the "Special" timings in the back end menu ("Fine Gold" in the 5000 for instance),
you have to be in "Special" on the front end cap.

Hi all,

I like to search in General, but use Deep as a sort of checking mode. Like if you get a faint signal you reckon might be deep, flick to Deep search mode and if the signal sharpens up, definitely dig!