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Post  Newhunter Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:38 pm

Hi all can you let me know where to get some good snake gaiters.
I have had one kidney removed a few years ago and have been doing a bit of prospecting the last 2 years but last winter just about walked on a big king brown, Didn't know i could back pedal so fast until then. Anyway i was reading a post on a forum about snake bite's and it said it affects your kidneys if you get bit as well as other things. So i am looking for a good set of gaiters or chaps.
Can you help me.
Thanks Gary (Newhunter)

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Post  staples61 Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:59 pm

Hi Newhunter,

There was a thread a while ago about someone on this site that made snake gaiters.
I wear a pair of soccer shinpads on each leg , which gives a fair amount of protection.
Cost about $10 a pair.
They also prevent a lot of the scratches that you get on your legs whilst wandering through the bush.
The shinpads only cover the lower leg and fit like a sock with a velcro strap at the top.
I wear one set backwards to cover the backs of my legs.
They have a hard plastic outer shell which I assume would give protection from a strike.
However to be honest I have never seen a snake in probably 100 trips.
Walking slow and making a noise seems to scare them off.
As recommended by David Beckham. LOL.

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Post  Jigalong Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:55 pm

I got some fantastic, soft but thick leather gaters from a lady in Victoria, who makes to measurements supplied by you. Leave enough room for jeans when you measure. They have velcro tabs and are quick to get on and off. Snake and spinifex proof.

colleen [colleenburke@optusnet.com.au]

Cheers,

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Post  delapan Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:21 pm

hi newhunter, saw that coiltek in maryborough had a whole heap of soft leather gaiters when i was there last, about 4 weeks ago, no idea of the price tho, didnt ask, havnt seen a single snake in 3 years of detecting, hope this helps, regards, gary
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Post  nero_design Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:07 am

Snake Gaiters Large
The Copperhead which seemed okay ...but probably wasn't.

As Jigalong says, measure with your jeans ON. There's a few online sellers from overseas who supply good quality Snake Gaitors. They are rated for Rattlesnakes which have a harder hit with longer fangs than almost all our snakes here in Australia.

Snake venom certainly effect the kidneys. The damage that some venom can do usually causes undesirable effects to organs, muscles and soft tissues. Renal failure is a common occurrence with many Australian snake venoms. I nearly stepped on a big Red-bellied Black Snake on the Turon River last year and again this year. Came within a foot an a half of her whilst walking backwards out of a creek. Saw a Brown Snake dissapearing into some rocks as I was climbing over them last April and was tempted to pull on the tip of the tail to spook my partner. Just 5 weeks ago I drove (accidentally) over a Copperhead whilst she was sunning herself on a dirt track. I still feel bad about that one. If she ignored my car which was traveling at a walking pace, I can only assume she might not have moved for my feet. I took a picture of it before letting her go again... there was some blood coming out of her vent so I don't think she fared so well. My wife had been photographing frogs there in that same spot on the track just the weekend before.

A good pair of Snake Gaiters (not to be confused with Dirt Gaiters for keeping soil from your shoes) ought to cost about $69 (or thereabouts) from the USA plus shipping. I have a pair on the way.

Cheers,

Marco
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Post  forester01 Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:59 am

Further to Marco's post, why not google 'Cabelas' in the USA. (www.cabelas.com). Once you've established a visacard (or Paypal) account you'll have your 'snake gaiters' within ten days. Plenty of different types to choose from and certainly no more expensive than a product of similar quality here in Oz.

Usually they fasten with velcro and can be worn over or beneath the trouser leg. A bit hot in the sort of weather we're having at the moment in Victoria - but safety from snakebite is the important thing.


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Post  russcoit Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:25 am

Gday all I dont understand why you have to overseas to get snake gaiters Ive seen the ones in coiltek they are identical to my horse riding chappets same deal less than half the price about 30 dollars from your local saddlery.They are double thickness and some have plastic inserts to stop you loosing your skin while horseriding.Just a thought check these out before spending your dough.Hope this helps Cheers Dave .
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Post  ballaratgold Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:39 am

colleen makes leather gaiters and full length chaps to your size
the same ones sold in marybourough
if you want to order a pair send her an email
rixon77@bigpond.com
john
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Post  nero_design Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:29 am

Snake Gaiters 51dKzYeqYAL._SS500_

The majority of Australia's poisonous land snakes are going to be rear fanged but those front-fanged snakes of ours have evolved a regular habit of chewing in order to inject more venom. The Tiger Snakes, Eastern Brown Snakes and Death Adders would be the likely serious threat here. They all have a well developed venom apparatus and the strikes from these snakes will easily penetrate leather if the strike is good. Quite a few Prospecting Supply stores in Australia sell "gaiters" but these are for keeping dirt out of your shoes and should not be confused with the type shown in the above photograph which are snake-proof. I think they have a set of neoprene plastic inserts which is lightweight but strike-proof.
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Snake Gaiters Empty Gaiters, Snake, Protective for the Use Of .....

Post  forester01 Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:15 pm

Well Dave, this is true. However - as someone on this net very wisely pointed out to me about a week ago - it's all about choice. Buying online gives you that choice and no-one's twisting anyone's arm. But it's good to know that there are alternatives.

Apart from boots and trousers (kindly supplied by HM Government over a 28 year employ and which I have in good supply) I buy shirts, shorts and multi pocketed waistcoats on-line from America. They're top quality and have the requisite number of pockets (plenty) to suit my trips into the bush. Additionally, I'm able to buy shorts with a heap of pockets which don't reach below the knees, resembling the knee-scraping 'Bombay bloomers' so popular nowdays but which we hated with a vengeance 40 years ago as rooky soldiers. Even with the lessening of value in the Oz dollar I find it's still just as cheap to shop overseas.

Yes, I know that someone will point out to me that I should be 'buying Australian'. Well, apart from the Rivers factories which turn out some good kit, the majority of the stuff I've bought in 'Rays Outdoors' (still a good source of bush kit) lately has been fabricated in Hong Kong or Taiwan or Red China.

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Post  ballaratgold Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:36 pm

nero even gumboots will give protection
quote ... living with wildlife.. (snakes cannot bite through shoe leather or gum boots)
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:MZEMaEu9om4J:www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/attachments/sjon-5kc2hz/%24file/snakes.pdf+snakes+can+not+bite+through+gumboots+or+leather&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=au
also another aussie snake handler site check out his gaiters do you really think he would sell them due to public liability if they didnt protect ?
http://www.livingwithwildlife.com.au/store/product-info.php?pid63.html
mate do your reserch.. the makers i recommended certinaly did and use quality products
regards john
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Post  forester01 Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:44 pm

G'day John,
yes you raise good points and gumboots - or even waders - would be good value. But both would be horribly hot in the scrub, and the pong from one's socks at day's end would be enough to enable 'em to glow in the dark, no matter what time of the year. On mornings spent fishing in the Goulburn I've seen tigers and black snakes sufficient to deter even the most enthusiastic fisherman. And on these occasions I definitely would say that waders or gumboots would be the answer.

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Post  ballaratgold Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:01 pm

hi forester
mate your spot on hot on the old feet and youd sweat a fair bit in em
saw a snake handler about 6 monts ago on tv getting bit by a tiger several times wearing gumboots
it was having a good ol chew didnt faze him wouldnt penetrate the boot
heres an old bushy gaiter.. wrap a whole newspaper around your leg and tape its cheap and apparently does the job
ive encounted a fair few tigers at the board of works in werribee the place is crawling with them



as for rivers clothing sad to say most of there clothing is made overseas now
there still making boots and shoes here
regards john
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Post  forester01 Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:22 pm

G'day John,
mate if you're the gentleman who contacted me by 'message' perhaps looking for more info - I'm happy to give it. The problem is - with a website where members seem to be shy of revealing themselves by name (buggered if I know why, must be the Greta Garbo or The Third Man syndrome) - I'm not sure whether I'm speaking to the right person.

My apologies if I'm off track here. My hotmail address is mickwellington@hotmail.com

Regards

Mike W
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Post  ballaratgold Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:33 pm

hi mike
no mate wasnt me that contacted you
regards john
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Post  nero_design Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:12 pm

ballaratgold wrote:nero even gumboots will give protection
quote ... living with wildlife.. (snakes cannot bite through shoe leather or gum boots) ...
mate do your reserch.. the makers i recommended certinaly did and use quality products
regards john

John, - you omitted the first word in your search: "Tasmanian snakes cannot bite through shoe leather or gum boots" and this also is another example of The Tasmanian Department of Tourism playing it safe. You can bet your bottom dollar that a Large bodied Tasmanian Tiger Snake can penetrate a gumboot if the strike is hard enough... and even more so a leather shoe... especially if the leather is soft or tight against the wearer's foot. As noted, the snake on the video was chewing. A good strike with needle sharp fangs can go through shoes. However, it will often strike the lower leg above the shoe or boot if the strike was made when the snake was raised off the ground in preparation first. Test it yourself by jabbing the inflexible toe of a rubber boot with a sharp sewing needle. The snake's mouth begins to close the moment the open mouth hits a target. So more often than not, the snake will snap onto the surface of the boot or shoe and let go again. They'll even "bounce" off a gumboot - but not all the time. And who wants to wear gumboots? I just wear sneakers or trekking boots (hiking boots). I don't want any metal in my shoes affecting my detectors.

I used to collect venomous wildlife for the CSIRO and I also worked with Steve Irwin prior to his celebrity status and again to assist his visual effects in the movie he made. I caught Cobras and Vipers in India and Sri Lanka in the early 1980's and I was catching Rattlesnakes in Canada just the other day in Alberta and also in Drumheller. I have been catching snakes and lizards by hand since I was 4 years old and my first snake catch (to my parent's horror) was a Brown Snake at age 6. Some of the US manufactured units are guaranteed to the tune of One Million Dollars (though I imagine that probably applies only to US snakes). The gaiters shown in the above link operate by being inflexible so the snake can't grasp any part of it with it's mouth. A trick by snake charmers in India which I saw was to use the back of the hand to "entrance" the cobra so that if it struck, the snake couldn't secure a bite against the flat of the hand (assuming it wasn't previously de-fanged, of course). Same principal. Australian snakes are generally short fanged (not all) but most strike hard enough to penetrate and occasionally do so when the material is flush against the leg. There's a few myths about snakes which Prospectors today still bandy about and most of the time I don't bother to correct them. And remember that the Death Adder's fangs shift to a forward position as it lifts back its head when it strikes. It strikes faster than any other snake in Australia, doesn't get out of your way, conceals itself in foliage and has long, penetrating fangs. It also hangs on and chews in order to inject more venom. For snake handlers, the gaiters in the above link you provided would be fine if dealing with small-headed snakes. But most snake handlers don't play with Tiger Snakes and Death Adders. Unfortunately, these two species... along with the Easter Brown Snake and the Black Snakes... are likely threats to Prospectors.

Nowdays I just photograph reptiles. But I enjoy handling them when an opportunity arises. But I can't risk an unnecessary bite these days as, like the OP here in this thread, my kidney's probably couldn't handle it if I were bitten. For those diabetic Prospectors out there: Don't get bit!

/An acquaintance of mine is a snake handler. He's been bitten many times but recently lost a thumb from necrosis after a Brown Snake bit him during a show. I think I have a photograph somewhere which I took as one of his Browns began to slide up his jeans - up one leg. He was real spooked at the time... he'd already lost the thumb.

Some reptiles pics I took these last few years here if anyone's interested: CLICK THIS LINK for a single image
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Post  mallee00 Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:04 pm

Nero, would you consider a person wearing leather boots and leather gaiters has lessened the chance of a snake bite penetrating the skin than a person who has taken no precautions, eg jeans and runners. mallee00 and the mutt

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Post  nero_design Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:14 am

mallee00 wrote:Nero, would you consider a person wearing leather boots and leather gaiters has lessened the chance of a snake bite penetrating the skin than a person who has taken no precautions, eg jeans and runners. mallee00 and the mutt

For sure - if they were leather gaiters or a similarly thick material. I'd agree that a person with leather boots and leather gaiters would have decreased their risk considerably. I know the thin plastic and fabric "anti-dirt/grass seed gaiters" won't do much though. I wear jeans and sneakers and hold no illusions there (hence I've ordered some Gaiters recently myself) although jeans will often prevent an snake bite over bare legs in shorts. Park ranger wear jeans to prevent the risk of a snake bite. Bare legs will almost guarantee envenomation. Snake bites on jeans often results in the snake closing its mouth upon contact with the denim. The bite is fairly quick too... like a jerking action. The reason I carry a fixed-bladed knife is to slit my jeans and apply a pressure bandage as quickly as possible. The chances of snakebite are slim but with the hot weather we've had lately, there's a real chance once of us might get bitten as the snakes are fairly active at the moment. I keep telling myself that if I watch where the coil is pointed, I'll see the snake before I tread on it. I bonked a Red-Bellied Black Snake one on the head with my coil on top of a mulloch heap in Sofala once before it turned tail and shot downhill - with me after it trying to unholster my camera. The locals were amused because they probably couldn't see the snake. Snake got away that day.
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Post  Newhunter Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:09 am

Thanks every one l have been in contact with Colleen and will be ordering some chaps from her
Thanks again Gary:

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Post  forester01 Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:43 pm

G'day Nero,
mate I prefer to let 'em go their own way without any provocation from my good self - and that includes trying to get photos of 'em. I respect them and appreciate that they're an important part of nature's system. I've killed them it's true - but only when they've ventured into my garden or under my house where they pose a threat to both my wife and I, our grandkids, and my Labrador (I live on the outskirts of town with the bush stretching out before me). Execution of said snake is accomplished quickly and humanely with a single shot from a .22 magnum ratshot cartridge to the head.

Whilst I appreciate that you're probably a pretty good snake handler, I know of at least one good snake bloke who's come unstruck on a number of occasions and bears a few unsightly lumps and distortions on his hands and fingers to bear bear witness to this.

A number of years ago I spent a few years in Penang, Malaysia, courtesy of the Government and paid the obligatory visit to the Snake Temple on the airport road (near the temple of a thousand rip-offs). There, after wandering with much care through the temple where kraits, Russel Vipers and a few other varieties of venomous reptile were coiled around various fittings, all of which were apparently fairly comatose through the incense and drugs burning in brass saucers around the interior of the temple, we wandered outside to the 'snake garden'. There we saw (wife, son and I) more vipers coiled around bushes through which we were encouraged to walk. 'No worry, no worry' said the Malay snake handler (his hands resembling a moonscape through bite injuries), 'all snakes have fangs pulled'. Well gents, t'was bullshit. Two weeks after we departed the snake Temple an American sailor on R & R from Vietnam was bitten when he became too familiar with a krait and came near to death in Georgetown hospital.

What's the moral of the story? Stuffed if I know right now - except to give all snakes a deal of respect and let them all go their own way. And yes, 'snake gaiters' of whatever make or design are a bloody good idea - regardless of who makes 'em.

Mike Wellington
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Post  Nightjar Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:17 pm

This is just one site that deals directly with Australian snakes and I whole heartedly agree with their opening comment:
"But there is no need to be scared. Lack of information, wrong information, hype and sensationalism have given our Australian snakes an image that they really don't deserve."

http://www.outback-australia-travel-secrets.com/australian_snakes.html

What causes this paranoia about snakes?
Hundreds die on our roads every year and it hardly raises and eyebrow?
We had a shark attack victim die in the bay where I live (Warnbro Sound) just after Christmas and the media had a bigger feeding frenzy than the shark did. (Of course my sincere condolences rest with the family of the victim.)
Have walked more km's in the WA bush than I can calculate however can count on my fingers the number of snakes encountered.

Am I reading correctly, someone wearing wellie boots while detecting???????
Someone chasing a snake to photograph it???????
Leave them alone and you'll come home at the end of a days detecting without any holes in your socks.

Rolling Eyes
Peter
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Post  Guest Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:14 pm

I grew up in a nature reserve with a large reptile display and was bitten on the arm by a tiger snake at age 13, but due to my own carelessness.
I also photograph them IF I come across them, and yes I agree most of the fear is totally unwarrented.

We share our house with a number of snakes and lizards, as my daughter breeds them and is a licenced handler.
Snakes will even crawl across your feet without striking if you remain still, aswell as hunting by smell they hunt by movement, we even have to teach our snakes to eat dead food by mimicing movement.

The majority of snake will see you before you see them and flee. One of the few exceptions is the Death Adder which will hide very successfully in leaf litter and wait for prey to come to it, or a threat to pass by hopefully without seeing it. A few weeks ago I did have one strike my coil and it was extremely hard to spot.

Even the loose fitting dust and anti burr gaiters are better than nothing, even a loose pair of jeans. The majority of snake bites are on the foot or ankle region and a good pair of thick high top hiking boots will thwart most strikes in that area.

Personally, I'd be more worried about spiders!

Snake Gaiters Redbellyblack

Snakes are all around us and you'll see them if you look for them

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Post  Nightjar Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:51 pm

Madtuna,
You summed it up perfectly although your avatar is a bit of a worry?:


"Snakes are all around us and you'll see them if you look for them."

Peter
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Post  echidnadigger Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:36 am

If I could sense snakes as well as they sense me, then you can be sure there would be double the distance between us. As prospectors. If we are covering the ground properly, then snakes have had a good chance of getting away. Just watch out for the sleepers. As they say: don't wake a sleeping dog.
Brett.
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