Garrett Pro Pointer pinpointer can make your GPX5000 unstable even when switched off.

3 X GPX5000's ,two with standard 11" Commander Mono's and one with standard 11" Commander DD all have had identical interference.....mine reacts within 8' with Pro Pointer switched OFF..if the Pro Pointer is simply waved/moved in the air...obviously they react with it switched ON however the interference is less within the 8' than with it switched OFF...go figure.....all machines go beserk as expected if the Propointer is used in close proximity when your're pinpointing in your hole you've dug you....I need the coil nearby as I tip my scoop contents on the coil when I've located the target.........I was previously turning off my exterior speaker as its so annoying however could still hear it reacting...now I dont carry it at all its no problem.....It has been sent to Mick/Mechanic to carry out his tests and possible switch fitted...I understand he will report back here....It's no good to me whatsoever remaining in my car when I detect...3 out of 3 GPX5000's reacting I do not believe is a random happening, however if the Pinpointer does not upset/interfere with your GPX5000 then obviously keep using it...I was only bringing this as a potential problem to be aware of if you have GPX5000....does anyone's mobile phone interfere with theirs when its on/standby?....Hoo Roo

Larry

Not good news about the probes ay.

Ive always switched off my mobile while detecting, not that i would ever have noticed any interference
but because i just dont want the bloody thing wrecking my time with constant ringing and beeping
when i get into a good gold finding mental zone.
I did hear something on the news last night that new tests are proving mobiles are now causing more
blood to flow into the brain on the same side as being held to the ears.

Pete in WA

What about a protective casing instead. Something that can not be detected through. then it wouldn't matter where you wear it and you don't need to modify it.
I had the same problem and had to sell mine...(garret p.p.p)
Cheers goldenbrown...

hey Fencejumper,

Just out of intrest.....How deep does those tx2002 machines detect to, also, are they ok in heavy mineralized ground?

Whats this question got to do with the original Pro Pointer question/thread...why not start another thread?
Mick/Mechanic will be reporting back to this thread his findings why start to fill it with other unrelated topics...sheesh.

I have contacted the Australian importer of the probes and he has passed on my questions to the makers. I'll post the outcome if it happens.
If you have a query about a product, contact the makers then report back here as to their answers/fixes or whatever.

I have carried my mobile in my left hand shirt pocket since day one of detecting and never had a problem.

Robert

brookesy888 wrote:hey Fencejumper,

Just out of intrest.....How deep does those tx2002 machines detect to, also, are they ok in heavy mineralized ground?

depth depends on size of target, just like a detector...one gram=a couple of inches...axehead=8-10 inches.
yes good in minrelised ground.





.





Re: Garrett Pro Pointer pinpointer can make your GPX5000 unstable even when switched off.
larry303 Yesterday at 8:43 am

.Whats this question got to do with the original Pro Pointer question/thread...why not start another thread?
Mick/Mechanic will be reporting back to this thread his findings why start to fill it with other unrelated topics...sheesh..

larry i felt at the time of my origanal post it was relevent,
as it gave people a chance to get rid of those crappy garrets and get something that works..

There have been threads on this topic,concerning 4s and 45s, in the past.Apparently some 5s have the same problem.Im no electronic expert,experience is the greatest teacher,so they say.Electronics aside,experience in the paddock has shown me that the GPXs that Ive had anything to do with that react to the pinpointer when turned off are the ones to hang on to.

Tunnel Rat wrote:There have been threads on this topic,concerning 4s and 45s, in the past.Apparently some 5s have the same problem.Im no electronic expert,experience is the greatest teacher,so they say.Electronics aside,experience in the paddock has shown me that the GPXs that Ive had anything to do with that react to the pinpointer when turned off are the ones to hang on to.

Please explain.

Robert

I'm not getting rid of my 5000...I'm not able to carry my Pro-pointer on me anywhere whilst detecting with it....says a lot about the sensitivity of the GPX which is what I paid good money for.....Mick/ Mechanic I understand has carried out his tests with mine <it is near new and works fine it simply cant be used near a 5000 even when switched off>...he is fitting an isolator switch to it I understand and is going to report back here...Emergency plan 'D' he came up with was to have it mounted on the side of my cap...not a good look or feel or practical...LOL.....I believe Minelab would be well aware of battery pinpointers causing instability to the 5000 however its not their problem its Garretts.......
Rob dont hold your breath mate waiting for your response from Garrett....it will be gobbildy gook when/if you eventually receive it...if it doesnt upset the less sensitive Infinium why would they worry.....
Mick believes he CAN fix the problem...he will likely be rushed with work!...Hoo Roo

The thing about this thread I fail to understand is why it seems not ALL the gpx's are affected? Surely if if one 5000 gets affected by the pin pointer then shouldnt they all. The micro boards in the detector would all be made the same way by the same company using the same components, as would the pinpointer circuitry. Does anyone have an idea why this is the case

I think it has something to do with the coils that you are using at the time. If someone that has a Garratt Pro Pinpointer, a GPX 5000, Minelab standard coils that came with there 5000 and a few non-standard coils (Nugget finder, Coiltec and such) could do a few tests and report back with there finding it may give a clue of which way to go. This test may go well for the 4500 as well.
Just my thoughts
Wombat

I've already stated previously that it was tested on three GPX5000's two had Commander Mono's 11" and the other had Commander DD 11"..three out of three recording interference/instability is hard to label a random result..all returned to normal when Propointer was taken away...I can only report what I know to be fact in that instance.....there were 19 GPX's there at the Talbot, I do wish I had put it near all 19....I do suspect the result would have been identical interference....I was in quiet audio...so if it was ever going to run smooth it would have been with that setting....I would also point out the GPX's were tuned/ set up by the best in the business....battery Pro Pointer problem with causing interference within 8' even with it switched off.... not the detectors....or settings IMO.
Surely there are other GPX5000 owners with a Propointer that can do the simple test of bringing it near their detector with detector on and Propointer off....and report back here...I dont sell Propointers therein might lie a problem with honest results...Hoo Roo

larry303 wrote:I've already stated previously that it was tested on three GPX5000's two had Commander Mono's 11" and the other had Commander DD 11"..three out of three recording interference/instability is hard to label a random result..all returned to normal when Propointer was taken away...I can only report what I know to be fact in that instance.....there were 19 GPX's there at the Talbot, I do wish I had put it near all 19....I do suspect the result would have been identical interference....I was in quiet audio...so if it was ever going to run smooth it would have been with that setting....I would also point out the GPX's were tuned/ set up by the best in the business....battery Pro Pointer problem with causing interference within 8' even with it switched off.... not the detectors....or settings IMO.
Surely there are other GPX5000 owners with a Propointer that can do the simple test of bringing it near their detector with detector on and Propointer off....and report back here...I dont sell Propointers therein might lie a problem with honest results...Hoo Roo

HGi Larry303,
Yes, read that there was a pinpointer problem with all 3 of the gpx5000's (2xmono, 1xDD), you tested earlier. But Nero_design does not seem to have this problem on either his 4500 or 5000. It just seems strange that most people are having this problen but some others not.
Possibly might be to do with th settings, have you tried it on other settings with the same result?

I havn't tried JP's settings yet for working a DD coil under Transformers/Electrical lines...however why should I?.. with a $170 gadget that is supposed to help and not hinder....I put it all down to the GPX 5000 extra sensitivity....I know there are 4500 users that are not really finding the problem...might even indicate the difference between a 4500 and 5000 with something like this...cant wait for MIck/Mechanic to report he's fixed my problem and send it back......<something about a small relay to switch the coil out of the cct when propointer switched off> anyway its his baby and no doubt he will explain what he has done to eliminate the problem interference..Hoo Roo.

Yes, hopefully the problem can be fixed.

brookesy888 wrote:Yes, hopefully the problem can be fixed.

Now what sort of mechanic would I be if I was not handy at fixing problems?

I have installed a small relay to switch the coil out of the cct and and connect it to its other side with a 1k resistor so the coil does not ring, or appear as a shorted turn, as that would then be detected at a greater distance. It has been done as per the schematic I posted at the start of this thread, but instead of using an external switch, I have used a small relay to do the job. That way it is just turn on and go, no extra annoying switches! I tested it today on Stoppsy's 4000 with an 18" coil, no interference when it is turned off, the probe can come within about a foot of the coil before it is detected as a target, which is probably mostly due to the battery in the pinpointer. When it was turned on the 4000 screamed! I still need to fiddle a bit more as I think where I have mounted the relay is too close to the probe, as the pinpointer seemed to be less sensitive than I expected. That can easily be fixed by mounting the relay further back. I have some photos of all the goings on but have to resize them and what not, so I will post them all next week.

Cheers Mick

That way it is just turn on and go, no extra annoying switches! I tested it today on Stoppsy's 4000 with an 18" coil, no interference when it is turned off....

it's true it didn't worry it at all....it's a good little set up that thing once you have it worked out so you can have it turned on and don't have any interference what so ever it would be great. keep at it you'll work it out mate.
cheers
stoppsy

G'day Stoppsy,

Unfortunately I can't do anything about it interfering with a detector when the probe is on. The interference to the detector when it is on is due to the cycle time of the detector, different timings have different cycle times, therefore a different response to the probe when it is on.

Cheers Mick

How about this for a solution?, Isolate the PinPointer by putting it in a metal case, or even a pouch made out of that metallized bubblewrap stuff car window sunshields are made out of, or the thinner version cooler bags are made from, or maybe even a goon cask bladder? If it works you could make a neato belt pouch for the PinPointer that shields the coil from the Minelab.

A couple of mates with 5000's are having the same problem. Ironically one of them tells me that the pinpointer doesn't seem to interfere with the NF 30 x 7 coil I loaned him to try out, but does with the NF 17 x 11 and almost every other coil they've tried. I suggested that they either need to leave it on the quads until needed, or to pay particular attention to their pinpoint procedure so there isn't a need to use it, but I acknowledge that sometimes the pointer is a good aid. Carrying it as high on their body as possible is one solution. Cheers.

Just a reminder that I've had no problems with using the Garrett Pro-Pointer with my own GPX-5000 when fitted with the 18" Round NFA coil and also the 14x9" NFA coils. The only time I had an issue was using the GPX-4500 and the 16" Round NFA coil.

G'day Nero, perhaps one without interference, while so many definately do, is a random result?.....I've now tested mine on both Commander 11" Mono and DD and the 14 x 9 Coiltek Goldstalker Mono with the same result..8' away interference.
Mick, Mechanic has carried out his surgery on mine and just returned it..he believes he has solved the problem on mine..my youngest daughter had her third babe yesterday and my absence will be noted if I try and slip away to test as I have my other two grandchildren..I must be mellowing in my old age...
I will report my results as soon as its politic to disappear....Hoo Roo
P.S. I havn't mentioned this to Mick as yet but when I opened the return parcel I was standing near my horse float and I could not bring the pro pinpointer closer than a full foot without it sounding off louder and clearer and vibrating than ever...I think he may have made it extra sensitive when it is on..which I will be very happy with..just so long it does not interfere with the 5000 coils when its switched off..<that was the problem>

G'day Guys,

Gunpowder, even if you did put it into a metal case there would still be a signal induced into the coil as the magnetic field cuts through the probe. The oscillations would die off a lot quicker, but there would most likely still be interference caused to the detector.

Nero, It could have something to do with the probes orientation to the coil, or perhaps your machine is not as sensitive as other ones?

Qldsandy, Perhaps the reason some coils do pick up the interference and others don't could have something to do with the shielding being used.

All that being said, the problem is with the probe NOT your detectors. This is a picture of the signal induced into the pinpointer probe coil with the pinpointer turned off.
The signal is just a bit over 250mv. Each time the detector(ML PI)puts out a pulse, at the termination of the pulse the flyback occurs as the magnetig field collapses into the coil, stimulating eddy currents in targets and in the probe! Just a closer view of the last pic...

Now this pic shows what happens if the probe coil is shorted out when it is off to try and combat the oscillations. This is not a very good way to do it as the coil(pinpointer)rings after the flyback pulse. Although this ringing signal is much less in amplitude, it would be bad practice to do it this way. Also the pinpointer would be seen as a target much further out than it otherwise should.

This next pic is of the final solution. The coil is disconnected from one side of the cct and shorted to ground through a 1k resistor. Now there is only a small signal induced in the probe during flyback, which quickly decays to 0v without ringing or oscillating. The bottom trace shows the pulses from the ML detector coil.


Now some of you are probably wondering how this all works. I installed a small relay,http://au.element14.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1770604 with the switch part of the relay hooked up as per the schematic I posted at the start of the thread.


one side of the coil was disconnected from the cct and connected to the small relay board.



Now one thing that you must be aware of if you are going to attempt to do this to your own probe is the power switch. It must be depressed during removal and installation. Use a small screwdriver to ensure it is fully depressed as it pushes under the lip of the probe body.


Also attention needs to be paid to the coil wires when reinstalling the board as they like to get caught up in the groove that the board slides into.
The screw that holds it all together is in the battery compartment.
Note. If you do attempt this and for whatever reason stuff it all up, I am not responsible!

Larry, if the probe seems more sensitive it could have something to do with the position of the relay on the board? If you do have trouble with it sounding off on hot ground, hold it close to the ground and then turn it on, this will make the probe less sensitive. This is also described in the user manual for pinpointing of larger targets. I am very confident that your probe will no longer interfere with your detector when it is turned off. Looking forward to hearing the results when you test it.

Cheers Mick

That's brilliant work Mick. You should sell the solution to Garrett.

Robert

Well done, Mick An elegant solution to a very annoying problem. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us - it's one of the great things about this forum
Cheers, Andy

I was working in a rock and shale area last night so I took a ProPointer with me for the first time to see if it would help locating small nuggets trapped in the shale.
Using the 11" Minelab Commander Mono, it had nil effect when worn on my back and only upset my 5000 when it slipped around and pointed dirrectly at the coil. This was easily fixed by securing it firmly on my belt.

At one stage I had a small nugget caught somewhere in the shale in a hole about 8" deep and located it with 5000 still switched on with no dramas.
When the 5000 did oscilate all I did was flick my B&Z Booster into bypass so it didn't drive me crazy and continued on with the probe.

I still find it easier and quicker to locate a target in the spoils using my hand or a scoop, but for locating a target in cracks in bedrock or the sides of deep holes they are invalueable.

How it affects other coils I can't give an opinion as I have not tried yet.

Cheers

Mick/Mechanic, I think you may have nailed the problem mate. I finally got a chance to try it out today in the goldfields. There definately was no longer any interference from 8' when switched off....and I was using the standard Mono 11" Commander with the GPX5000. The GPX is extremely sensitive and whilst there did not seem to be the usual interference when carried in its belt holder and switched off...if the Pro Pointer is waved still off within a couple of feet it definately registers...I feel this is the sensitivity of the GPX rather than a problem with the Propointer now.....when the Propointer is switched on of course my GPX goes bonkers and whilst it was easy with my external speaker which has on/off switch to simply switch off while digging/locating.. I'm now using the Koss TD80's headphones, so not so easy and very distracting with the Pro Pointer on....and I need to keep my coil handy when digging to put the final scoop contents on.....<its such a handy little gadget in the right circumstances I missed not being able to carry it> Garrett should turn them out with your modifications IMO..
You have made it possible for me at least to be able to carry it and have a stable detector....and I thank you very much for all your effort. We only got 3 bits today <me and my detecting mate> 2 specimens <one in ironstone and the other in quartz> and a small sub gram nugget and I didnt use the Prop Pointer as much as usual as we were working along the top edges of a deep creek/old workings and with the recent rains too much grunt with the pick can cause erosion which we always try and avoid..when I get a decent little nug I will send it to you in gratitude.....thanks mate...
P.S. for anyone interested the GPX5000 is very sensitive in the mineralised local areas I work with the settings I used today, Factory for all barring: Gain at 17, Stabiliser 15, AUDIO QUIET, Motion Medium, Special Fine Gold, Manual Tune 130, Rx Mono, Fixed,....11" Commander Mono.

Hi Larry,

Good to hear that its working well for you. Of course when you bring the pinpointer near the coil(when off) it will detect as a target but there should be no more wobbly emi noise caused by it. Yes the detector will go bonkers when the pointer is on, does it do this in all timings or just one in particular?

Cheers Mick

Wombat wrote:I have just sent of an E-mail to the Technical boys of Garret with this problem, I don't know what will come from it or there reply. But what I have heard was it may not be the Minelab detector or the pinpointer that is the problem but the different types of coils being used. Nuggetfinder / Coiltec and such with there sensitivity. Has anyone that is having the trouble with the probe and is using a Minelab 4500 or 5000 tried going back to the original coils that came with their machine and seeing if they are still having the same problem

Wombat

Did you ever get a reply for Garret mate?