Which fourby is the best?.

[b]Which is the best,i have browsed the 4wd forum sites and the main contention is which is the best,one i really think that when considering a unit certain factors have to be taken into consideration.
Now on the forum sites mining ,loan and fleet vehicles are discussed and certain makes are rubbished,but in consideration one must remember:-
1 the above vehicles all go faster.
2 the above can go thru deeper water.
3 they go arround corners faster somtimes.
4 they can carry twice their recommended load
5 they all seem to use more fuel.
6 they all seem to bog on the beach.
7 you never lift the bonnet(thats someones elses job)
8 they are always dirty,unless you give it back.
9 the tyres are always making squelling noises on take off.
10 you never carry pasengers (they might talk). finis john.

G'day Jayvee.

No such thing. What suits one individual don't suit another.Just like metal detecting for gold,too many variables involved to make the best 4WD.The way i see it,the best 4WD would have to be the most reliable all rounder,one that when put to a variety of challenging tests,under a variety of conditions,pulls through most of the time.But,what we should really be asking ourselves is,how good a person is,in terms of successfully negotiating their way through uncertain terrain.In experienced hands,any 4WD can be made to look good,but in the hands of an inexperienced 4W driver,your just asking for trouble.

Cheers kon61.

HI,sorry just kidding all T.I.C. john.

No need for apologies John. Don't take this literally. I'm only expressing my view and not the views of anyone else on this forum.

Cheers kon61.

Gday


There are so many choices of 4wd available these days and for an inexperienced operator it can be as confusing as which detector to get and what coils best suit it ect etc and so on.

But there are a few things that I think are important features to have in a vehicle and would prioritise them over other things, this is just the way I think and I dont necessarily think that there is one 4wd that is better over all than any other as they are all heaps of c..p when they let you down.

My first priority would be that the vehicle is fairly basic, something that is easy to work on, and easy to get parts for, this is a big consideration when you are in outback areas as some things are hard to get and it could mean you are stuck there for some time waiting on parts.

I understand the arguement that modern engines are very good and reliable but I also know that when something does go wrong it can be complicated and not something you could attempt to sort out yourself, and without the necessary diagnostic equipment and experience in using it you have bucklies of finding the fault.

A basic engine means that a fault can be more easily isolated, as there are fewer things that you need to look at, you want to be able to change belts and hoses and things yourself and its a good idea to have something that you are fairly confident that you can work on, its a good idea to do your own servicing and maintenence as well as you become familiar with it and also you can spot things that need attention before they become an issue.

Basic body work/ wheels/tyres is also high on my list as the bush can be hard on a vehicle and sporty flares and pretty bits can easily be torn off and left hanging in the trees, low profile tyres etc are useless and hard to get in the outback or even in country towns so they are better avoided.

Also available space for storing all the things that we have to take with us, making sure that if needed you can carry extra water or provisions and keep them in useable condition, space for tools and spare parts, recovery gear, detecting gear and such.

cheers

stayyerAU

Absolutely agree with your comments StayyerAU

Simple and basic but also tough.

I can afford to buy a late model vehicle tomorrow, but I will not simply because I don't want to be stuck for days, or worse, perish simply because I couldn't jump start my truck or I could not get it started or get the accessories to work to use the radio or horn. Far too many general functions of modern 4 X 4's are controlled by the On board Computers and they are simply too sensitive and too easily subject to failure. The engines are impossible to even see properly let alone work on.

Me I have a trusty old MK Patrol (1986) with turbo diesel. Its mechanically very basic, very reliable, very economical and easy to work on and to diagnose problems. I can work on it on the side of the road and if it ever did give a problem I am confident I could get it going again to get me back to safety. Also share with my son a slightly newer (92) Ford Maverick still with a big 4.2 basic diesel engine. They are both almost indestructible and I am concerned when the time comes in a few years that I can't buy a basic truck.

Cheers

Gday Golsubaru


The best vehicle I have owned to date is my 1991 Toyota PC, I hand picked this car after some time searching, it was a one owner and had 120,000 klms on the clock, I have had it for over 4 years now and its a long way from original as I have converted it in to a camper.

What I like about the pc,s is they are very basic, my mate reckons its a dinosaur and he wouldnt lower himself to buy one like it but still wants a pc all the same, but the very latest v8 turbocharged model, I did try to explain to him my theory on basic being better in the bush for the same reasons I gave before.

I have done pretty much all the maintenence and repairs on it myself, over this time so I am familiar with all its squeeks and rattles, and I am confident enough in it to go wherever I want and know that I should have a reasonably hassle free trip, the only issues I have had with it of late has been staked tyres but that goes for all vehicles used in the bush I think.

Several of my other friends all now have pc's as they have seen how many trips and places I have been to and had no issues, but I also think that they can also see that because its a basic vehicle layout a lot of conversions to suit yourself can be done very easily, with mine I have done so many extras to it myself its a veritable home away from home, comfort and reliability what else more could you ask for.

Its my choice and it suits me for what I do, but they dont ride too well, and drive a bit like a truck, so they are not hugely popular if you want all the latest features like power windows and a car like ride etc.

cheers

stayyerAU

Saying modern 4WDs are too complicated to be reliable is a bit like saying the latest metal detectors are too unreliable because of their complexity. The more you add the more can go wrong, and yet most professional prospectors use a GPX, and mining companies mostly use Landcruisers.

The space shuttle was probably one of the most complex things designed by man, but still it managed to fly almost every time.

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:Saying modern 4WDs are too complicated to be reliable is a bit like saying the latest metal detectors are too unreliable because of their complexity.

I think stayyers point was......the simpler they are the better chance YOU have to fix a problem when stuck outback and have just yourself and a minimum amount of tools to diagnose and possibly fix the problem with your ride.

New 4bys are great.....but I'd have a lot less chance of diagnosing and fixing the problem, than I would with a very basic old school 4by.

cheers

I still miss my old series 2A Landrover......just keep the points, plugs and main jet clean and you could'nt stop it !.......I could lift out the gearbox and transfer case seperately with just my two hands.....it was just like a meccano set......I could dent it, scratch it and not even flinch (it all added to it's character)....and all that room for carrying gear and/ or sleeping..............Ho Hum.

Gday

Well said Sandy, I miss the old 2a Landrovers that I used to have to drive when in the army, I used to dent and scratch them a fair bit too, crash box, bone shaker, then we got the series 3 and they were hopeless and slower on the open road than the 2a's.

I am not saying that newer vehicles are not reliable because for the most part they are, but my point exactly was that it is very much harder to diagnose faults with later vehicles unless you are carrying the correct diagnostic equipment, where as with an earlier model and more basic engine there are fewer things to look at and that means its that much easier to isolate the problem.

If you have something of that nature happen when you are in the bush with a late model vehicle then there is a much higher chance of you having to put it on a truck and send it back to the city or major town as its unlikely that you would find someone who could fix it for you, with a more basic and older vehicle with easy to get and fairly common parts your chances of getting it up any going are much higher.

Another point is that if your vehicle is a bit older and bush worn then you dont get very upset when you put a new scratch or dent in it, if its a late model and pretty then you would find yourself being sad all day if you dinged it.

cheers

stayyerAU

I think stayyers point was......the simpler they are the better chance YOU have to fix a problem when stuck outback and have just yourself and a minimum amount of tools to diagnose and possibly fix the problem with your ride.

Quite right. I was referring to the post above his that suggested newer models were less reliable.

Another thing I hadn't seen mentioned though, is the constant attention older 4WDs need. Even the most well-built and best looked-after 4WDs eventually reach an age when parts just begin to fail one after the other. I think we can all agree that a vehicle's reliablility drops off with age and number of kms travellled as various components begin to wear out and eventually fail, even for those that a well maintained. Something that won't ever trouble a new 4WDs despite their complexity.

If I had to travel to the most remote corner of this country, I would much rather do it in a new, modern 4WD then a well-maintained older model. This is only my opinion based on experience. All the 4WDs I have owned were extremely reliable and I never had to touch them mechanically. Hell, I never even bothered to wash them. But then, when they clocked up a couple of hundred kays all hell would break loose. And guess what? My most reliable 4WD I ever owned ended up failing for the first time 200kms from the nearest town. Despite carrying two boxes of spare parts, I hadn't been able to fix the damn thing because the engine needed removal to replace the blasted part. When something does go wrong you better expect the worst will happen no matter what car you are driving.

If I travel, I always carry basic spare parts and travel in convoy of 2 or more (if possible), then hope for the best. Barring a accident, I feel there is much less chance of something going wrong in a new 4WD than an older one.

Gday


There are many points to consider whether the vehicle be an older model or a newer model, one of them being "can you do it yourself" if the answer is no then you would be foolish to venture off the bitumen too far, the other thing is maintainence you simply have to keep up with it and get to know the vehicle, by doing the work yourself you will have the confidence to at least attempt a repair that could get you out of trouble.

I have many friends with 4wds and some of them know little or nothing about the mechanical aspects of their vehicles, they rely on other people to do all the work from servicing to tyre changing, some of the failures I have seen on their vehicles are, sump nut falling out after being serviced by a dealer and the engine subsequently siezing in the middle of nowhere, wheel nuts left loose and breaking of several of the wheel studs outside of Mt Magnet on a Sunday afternoon when everything was closed.

I agree that due to an age of a vehicle that you simply have to be more observant and maticulous in regards to carrying out repairs and servicing, with my vehicle I recently did a brake repair where I initially only intended to replace the back brake drum linings, I observed that one of the wheel cylinder seals was seeping and looked a little worse for wear so I decided that they needed a kit put through them, on enquiring about the parts I found that replacement new wheel cylinders where not much dearer than the kits so common sense told me to just replace the complete cylinders and then I knew for sure that I would have no issues with those components for some time.

When replacing the water pump, as you have to remove the timing gear to do this job I decided that I would replace the timing belt and pulley even though the belt had done about 50,000 klm and was supposed to be good for 100,000klms I dont take chances and have found that its always cheaper in the long run to do the job 100% rather than have to do it all again if something else goes.

cheers

stayyerAU

I think that the best 4wd is the toyota landcruiser's it's a tuff and versitile vehicle
but nissan patrols front diff's are imbrackable so it really depands on what your planing to do with it.

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:Saying modern 4WDs are too complicated to be reliable is a bit like saying the latest metal detectors are too unreliable because of their complexity. The more you add the more can go wrong, and yet most professional prospectors use a GPX, and mining companies mostly use Landcruisers.

The space shuttle was probably one of the most complex things designed by man, but still it managed to fly almost every time.

The difference here is if your late model detector with all the whiz bang gadgetry breaks down, it won't leave you stuck in the middle of nowhere. You might have to cut your detecting trip short and go home, but you need your vehicle to get home. Plus, parts for old landcruisers and the like are easier to get. In the case of Toyota, they can be gotten pretty much anywhere in Australia.

The reason why the mining companies and graziers use landcruisers is because they handle the Aussie outback like no other, and parts are readily available fast. My experience here does not come from gold detecting trips but 15 years living in the outback plus 10 years cadastral and geomatical surveying. For the purpose of gold detecting trips I would be using an older (pre 1990) Landcruiser diesel troopy or ute with canopy, but since I have the luxury of using vehicles that aren't mine and not paying for the fuel etc. (or the detector either thanks to the ATO) this is not a huge concern for me at this point in time.

Hi
The best 4wd going around is still the mighty toyota 60 series, hunt around for a well looked after one and it will treat you well for years to come.
Marty

Yep! and after a million K's they keep on keeping on!

Totally agree. Just have a look how many mighty 60's are still on the road. Tojo's best 4bee by far.

Robert

Have had coversations with a few drive train mechanics at different times and more than once been told "That for every Nissan Diff I rebuild, I will rebuild Ten Toyota diffs"

Its a bit like Makita against other brands. Tradies stick to Makita because they have always been good, but now there are a few other brands just as good.
Nowadays there are nearly as many Nissans and even a growing number of Pajeros being used in the scrub.

Toyota is a bit like Makita, It has ridden for many years on its name and Aussies don't like change even though there are now other makes just as tough and reliable.
The second series of the Nissan MQ (from late 84) was said to be the toughest and most reliable 4x4 in the country at the time and then when the GQ came out in 1988 It was even better and is still regarded as the toughest you can get. Also as someone above said, you don't care if they get scratched or banged about a bit.

Land Rover Discovery II TD5

onebob

"Why bother explaining why you own a Land Rover...they obviously don't get it! "

I had a L/R series III as my first 4x4.
It was tough enough but ooh boy was it a typical British vehicle. Nothing but little problems, mainly electrical. But regardless of what stuffed up getting parts was both difficult and very bloody expensive

Disco's are very cheap second hand so there is something wrong there

Sluicer

RiverSluicer wrote:I had a L/R series III as my first 4x4.
It was tough enough but ooh boy was it a typical British vehicle. Nothing but little problems, mainly electrical. But regardless of what stuffed up getting parts was both difficult and very bloody expensive

Disco's are very cheap second hand so there is something wrong there

Sluicer

You got that right !

big chop wrote:I think that the best 4wd is the toyota landcruiser's it's a tuff and versitile vehicle
but nissan patrols front diff's are imbrackable so it really depands on what your planing to do with it.

BigChop is right , the best 4x4 is the one that suits you for the need , i drive a toyota hilux 93 dual cab and apart from the normal repairs from wear and tear its been a dam good 4x4

Amazing subject discussing 4x4's. The best vehicles I've ever owned were a 1977/78 Nissan Patrol (petrol) long wheel base, built like a tank, went anywhere but could have been better with a 5 speed box instead of the 3 it was made with and I still kick myself for selling it. the other was an old Tojo, ya just couldn't stop the thing if ya tried. Old & ancient vehicles now but I'd still take one over a modern 4x4.

A problem the mines and stations are having is that the v8 cruiser insurance is very high for under 25 yr olds,Also the rear leaf springs on the utes are built to carry a heavy load,(great for a work ute), but making for a hard ride and not much suspension travel.my back is alot better off with my coil cab patrol ute,otherwise i would have a a cruiser ute.It's a 2004 with the 4.2 turbo intercooled,(do not like the new 3 ltr),both utes are great,built like tractors. Just came back from WA and noticed mines using a lot of dual cabs,maybe a change in the wind ?????.
I totally agree that it's the driver who makes THE difference,not the 4B.

Pic taken at the Banego mine, Ertistoun,W.A. (nth of laverton)

[img][/img]

180 ltr fuel,about the same in water,HD long travel suspension,bullbar,winch,CB,phone antenna and more something about "boys and there toys".I'm also a mechanic so the newer one are no trouble.
Ironstone

[ url=https://servimg.com/view/15784344/22][/url]
i like my 1989 hj75,2h motor very tough and easy to work on,runs perfect on cooking oil and hho,parts easy to get and not that dear.
cheers dave

As for the best 4x4 i think it has to be a vehicle that you have confidence in, Even better if you can do maintaining & repairing your self. Just think if you have abrakedown happen while your off the beaten track it can become a real nightmare espeicialy if you have to get the vehicle towed to a garage where you need Diagnosing gear to find the fault.
For that very reason I WILL not own a 4x4 that has computerised engine managment as if you happen to have a sensor stop working or get the computer wet your basicly screwed, hell even if your Alternator pacs it in most if not all modern diesel powerd 4x4s wont run.
For me i run a 1985 Land Rover 110 County fitted with a 3.9 Isuzu non turbo, 750 X 16 steeltrek tyres very basic but goes just about any where and every where & dont have to worry about the paint work all the better for chucking in your prospecting gear or wolf-hounds & not have to worry about marking the interiour either. Best thing is them old 4BD1 engines were designed to power a 7 ton truck so in a 2 ton vehicle they last just about forever, and no computer engine management to worry about. Simple to fix at home or on the side of the road.

Just my 10 cents worth i grew up with old Landys from series 1s, 2As throu to what i have now the way i see it better the devil you know then the one you dont

As a fitter in the mines i have owned at least one of every brand and I currently own a new hilux and a GQ patrol. I have found the older models will keep going with a series of major problems whilst the newer ones are way more comfortable. Never touch a 4 cylinder diesel patrol they are piles of junk the best running gear with the worst engine. Any of the newer common rail vehicles need extra fuel filters added before taking them tofar off road any diesel repair shop should be able to sell these. My favourite is the GU patrol with the 4.2 diesel these are comfort and reliability. or a 80 series landcruiser just whatch the front diff and the 5th gear in the gear box these break with around 150 thou of hard use. Goodluck

Just what ever you buy don't buy a Cherry as they ain't that rosey & from what I've seen n heard spare parts what spare parts they have to wait 6 to 12 months for them to appear or just rip them off another one in the car lot to get you going for another week till the next thing broke.....

How about Australia starts to get a bit more quality control happening. Nothing should be sold in Aus till its test product survives a trip around our country without breakdowns. Let real aussie people test the crapers on real outback roads or real Aussie people use these products for what they are designed for before they are mass released.

Yep Patrol or Landcruiser are the better large 4x4 for Australia & better for other countries too.

Cheers Tony

Guest wrote:Absolutely agree with your comments StayyerAU

Simple and basic but also tough.

I can afford to buy a late model vehicle tomorrow, but I will not simply because I don't want to be stuck for days, or worse, perish simply because I couldn't jump start my truck or I could not get it started or get the accessories to work to use the radio or horn. Far too many general functions of modern 4 X 4's are controlled by the On board Computers and they are simply too sensitive and too easily subject to failure. The engines are impossible to even see properly let alone work on.

Me I have a trusty old MK Patrol (1986) with turbo diesel. Its mechanically very basic, very reliable, very economical and easy to work on and to diagnose problems. I can work on it on the side of the road and if it ever did give a problem I am confident I could get it going again to get me back to safety. Also share with my son a slightly newer (92) Ford Maverick still with a big 4.2 basic diesel engine. They are both almost indestructible and I am concerned when the time comes in a few years that I can't buy a basic truck.

Cheers

You need not be concerned - the on board computers are not as flakey as you make out - mine is in its 14th year of trusty performance. It's the 'softening' of the overall vehicle engineering that is more worrying.

onebob