THE AMOUNT OF PHYSICAL SILVER LEFT IN THE WORLD

If 4000 people bought a million dollars of silver bullion each. The stock pile of silver that is left in the world has been exhausted. It has all been used up over the last 65 years in electronics and electrical equipment etc etc. Unlike most gold that is still stored way as a sign of wealth. So what i am saying is that all the silver that has been found and mined since the dawn of man is just about all gone. Into landfills and has not been recycled as much as gold has.

Remember that most of the silver and gold out there in financial land ( the land of makebelieve) is leveraged to the hilt. It only really exists on paper.

Do some research and see what you think.

Gold is great do not get me wrong but for the biggest gains in percentage terms for your dollar spent on bullion ( unless u find it with the metal detector ) the greatest gains will be in the area of silver bullion

explorer wrote: the greatest gains will be in the area of silver bullion

you could be on to something explorer
warren buffet owns 20% of the worlds silver production and he`s pretty good at making money
dave

Explorer, could you please post some links?

many thanks!

I concur!
I found an interesting article, it a cupla years old but pretty much explains it in a nutshell.

http://freethemarketman.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/why-the-silver-price-is-set-to-soar/

that article by undertaker just about covers it. A very good one Undertaker well found.

Did you see their debt the US was 8.8 trillion in 2008 when that article was done and now it is 13.7 trillion dollars. Its gone up 5 trillion dollars in two years from my very rough calculations.

I just did some quick beer coaster sums for everyone
silver is 27.70 ausdollars
gold is 1373.25 ausdollars the ratio is 1: 49.5 eg 1 oz of gold is equal to price of 49.5 oz of silver

the historical average of trade in gold and silver is 1: 15 so to bring it back to that it should be $91.40 a ounce for silver at the historical average of 1: 15

now the current reserves of gold are 1,584,729,800
now the current reserves of silver are 8,867,844,000

that brings the ratio of available gold held in the world at a gold to silver ratio of 1: 5.5 so silver should be in theory at a current price of $249.27 if my calculations are correct! ( if not some one post my error)

So silver is being held down from its supposedly true and fair value of $249.27 if u follow the supply available ratio.

So silver should rise about $ 221.50 a ounce to be fair value.

also remember a lot of people own that 8,867,844,000 and you can only buy what is left.
Which is suppose to be equal to 4000 people buying $1million dollars worth each and the reserves for physical sale would dry up.

If some one can find a flaw in this calculation i have done pull me up and correct me????????

all the money in the financial world is equal to 100%

if all the silver and gold and platinum was purchased by the world it would use 0.08 of one percent of that money that is floating about.

so what is backing the other 99.02% assets of some type i suppose. but it is not gold/ silver/ or platinum

Am i missing something here????

Well if we knew where that .08 of 1% came from

A couple of comments re. above replies:
1). Warren Buffett sold his holdings a while back and admitted he sold too early.
2). The link to follow is: www.silverseek.com
3). Physical silver was estimated at 1.2 billion ounces and depleting at 300 million ounces a year over the last 4 years.....you do the sums.
There is no audit on world stocks of silver or gold....and no country wants one !!!!!!!
There is a big stink at the moment in the USA....the silver market has finally been found out to having been manipulated by 2 big banks ( known in the trade as "naked shorts" )....so you wll be reading a lot more about that in the near future.
China has made it legal for the population at large to own gold and silver.....which is a smart way of acquiring world stocks.
WATCH THIS SPACE.......

So true sandy. I suspect you are referring to J P Morgan Bank? Jason Hommel has an excellent website and exposes a lot of truths.

I can't understand folks who invest in Gold or Silver and then get talked into leaving it at the Mint for ''safekeeping'' as it will be "secure" there. They are given a slip of loo paper telling them how much their investment is equal to in silver or gold not realizing that probably 1000 others have been sold the same specie of bullion.
If everyone demanded their bullion at once, there is no way the promisary note, certificate, loo paper, or whatever you want to call it, could be honoured.
If you invest, make sure you take your bullion then and there and keep it in your own safe. At least then you truly own it.

Panther

from wikipedia

"In 1997, Warren Buffett purchased 130 million troy ounces (4,000 metric tons) of silver at approximately $4.50 per troy ounce (total value $585 million). On May 6, 2006, Buffett announced to shareholders that his company no longer held any silver."

sorry about that. i`m 4 years behind the times
dave

Sandy 2010 have a look at the USdebtclok.org and go to the precious metals inventories. The figures i gave came direct from that so once again if the american government is behind that site ( is it factual or fudged) and are the figures really live????

If your figures are right then silver inventories are just about gone. From the figures given on the US debt clock.org i estimate the world is out of silver in about 4 to 6 years. Unless a massive ramp up in production happens in the next 5 years which it might with far higher prices

An that 0.8 is my fault sorry

Pheonix i was told that Buffet was going to try and corner the market in the mid 1990,s and was told from many sources that his days would be numbered in the us. He would cop the same treatment the HUNT brothers did with their attempt to corner and control silver in the late 1979 to 1980 period. They went from Billionares to paupers in a matter of months. Thanks to the overnight changes brought about by the Comex and the US federal government.

Thanks for the info. explorer....
re. your comment on ramping up production.....apparently it's not possible ( there is so few silver mines), most of the production is from the by-product of copper, lead and zinc and if the world economy slows then silver gets dragged down kicking and screaming.
A couple of interesting points to ponder....
1) Bill Gates has a big interest in Pan American Silver.
2) The point you made about fudged figures is shown up in the unemployment figures in the USA.....if you become unemployed in the USA and go onto "benefits", it is for a fixed time then they strike you off.......AND they also strike you off the unemployed statistics Ha !.......so the unemployment figure is not 10% as the USA Govt. claims, but 22%........so much for figures.
As Maroney said in his book..."There are lies,damned lies and statistics".

Panther wrote: So true sandy. I suspect you are referring to J P Morgan Bank? Jason Hommel has an excellent website and exposes a lot of truths.

I can't understand folks who invest in Gold or Silver and then get talked into leaving it at the Mint for ''safekeeping'' as it will be "secure" there. They are given a slip of loo paper telling them how much their investment is equal to in silver or gold not realizing that probably 1000 others have been sold the same specie of bullion.
If everyone demanded their bullion at once, there is no way the promisary note, certificate, loo paper, or whatever you want to call it, could be honoured.
If you invest, make sure you take your bullion then and there and keep it in your own safe. At least then you truly own it.

Panther

Your gold cannot be sold over and over again to more than one buyer at a time. Well Not legally.

I would agree though that if you purchased a large qty say half a ton then it would be advisable to stick it in a vault somewhere. Or maybe disguise it as a coffee table in yer lounge room

As long as I had my proof of purchase I could exchange it for cash at an Aussie bank at any time and receive in return, the current value per oz.

It would be interesting though to see what would happen if every gold bullion owner decided that they wanted their piece of gold in the hand

Adrian ss gold can be leveraged eg EFT,s and other funds on the american market especially.
For every 1 ounce of gold or silver it is leveraged at a minumum of 100 times. To its customers or buyers of the product (paper receipts or certificates once again ) ( that one is for Panther )

Its another big Ponzi scheme.

Sandy have a look at the food stamp figures on the debt clock nearly 43,000,000 people on it now. That is a ratio of 1:7

I did a little bit of research and the maximum time you can stay on any form of Beneifts in the USA is 99 weeks for unemployment beneifts i am sure it is a far less period about 2 or 3 months.

Only three silver companies listed on the Australian stock exchange I have invested a small amount in AYN do some research on this one if you like silver companies in Australia. I would name the other two companies but i thought it might be fun if some of you on this forum let your fingers do the walking on the google internet library.

Adrian SS. I believe that what I am saying has in fact happened in the past at the Perth Mint. Purchasers were offered other bullion in lieu which peed a lot of folk off. As I said, Jason Hommel knows what is going on at all the Mints (and banks) around the world and it is not good. The world monetary system is on the point of collapse. Our own rising dollar against the 'mighty' US dollar should be a good clue.
This is an interesting read and shows how unstable everything is at present. My thoughts are, it can only get worse.
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Summers/nov162010.html

Panther

Panther .
QTE "The world monetary system is on the point of collapse. Our own rising dollar against the 'mighty' US dollar should be a good clue". Unquote.Our dollar is as it has been for several years and reflects Austraia,s lack of economic growth.
The Yank dollar is crashing making our dollar lOOK good.

The Yanks need to get out of the war games, stop blowing money on useless space exploration beyond mars and stop selling realestate to the Chinese (something we should stop also)then their dollar might improve a tad. But then if they quit the war games a lot of people will be out of work

ADRIAN et al,
GOOGLE: COSTOFWAR.COM......click on the top one with running counters (wait a few seconds for it to start running)....
I don't want to digress away from the main subject (as often happens on forums).

sandy2010 wrote:ADRIAN et al,
GOOGLE: COSTOFWAR.COM......click on the top one with running counters (wait a few seconds for it to start running)....
I don't want to digress away from the main subject (as often happens on forums).

Yeah interesting and there's a lot of gold tied up with those dollars.

Macquarie bank sent me a buy silver coins advert in the mail. I trust this as much as telstra shares. Everyone uses wireless broadband land lines are dead as if buying into telstra was going to help. I was sceptical about the broadband hard wiring tax payer funded, when the whole world is wireless.

Any major stuff sold off by the govt on the stock market i treat with an amount of scepticism. I guess their are exceptions like banks being privatised.

It is like with everything silver - do the due diligence.

ABC bullion dealer in sydney ran out of all silver bullion. Now a 5 week waiting list / 4 weeks for bigger orders.
Only has silver bullion supplies that come in to be traded in over the counter from customers at the moment.
Which is not much. All these Indian guys and Asian guys queuing to get in the place while i was there this morning. Having a look around. They were ordering up big for February delivery as the place is closed in January for holidays.


Strange thing was they had plenty of gold ingots but next to nothing in the way of silver.

Spoke to 4 british guys that were looking around as they were taking silver bars back to England in their luggage to avoid a 20% vat tax on silver over there.

Also Asians starting to slowly buy gold and silver for the Lunar Chinese new year in February.

Another view of current silver trends. I've always found Jon Nadler to have a well balanced view of the precious metal market & worthy of at least considering his advice.
http://www.kitco.com/ind/nadler/nov222010.html
Cheers

silver is a by-product in nickel and tin and copper etc etc that is sent to China as concentrate and processed.
China also is now the biggest producer of Gold and the third biggest producer in the world of Silver and it has stopped exporting 60% of its silver production to foreign markets and is slowly stock piling it for its own strategic reserves in the future. Like all the other REE ( rare earth element ) metals as well.

Silver is also a very shallow surface crust precious metal that is not found in very deep leads like Gold, paltinum.

It is said silver will be the first metal or element on the periodic table to be exhausted from extensive mining.
Although production will increase for a number of years as the price of silver appreciates in value.

explorer wrote:ABC bullion dealer in sydney ran out of all silver bullion. Now a 5 week waiting list / 4 weeks for bigger orders.

Yes indeed...They have run out. I just popped in today to collect some of it which they were kind enough to hold for me. I usually pick up one of the PAMP minted 1oz ingots for my wife whenever I purchase bullion as it seems to reduce any resistance on her part when I convert gold to silver or buy bulk silver. I photographed two of them side by side for scale (see pic below).

explorer wrote:Only has silver bullion supplies that come in to be traded in over the counter from customers at the moment.
Which is not much. All these Indian guys and Asian guys queuing to get in the place while i was there this morning. Having a look around. They were ordering up big for February delivery as the place is closed in January for holidays.

You picked the busiest time of the year when all the Indian and Asian customers fill the place up in a fairly good mood and then buy up a lot of the silver they've previously ordered. Only happens once a year but it's crazy when it does.

explorer wrote:Strange thing was they had plenty of gold ingots but next to nothing in the way of silver.

Yes, there is MORE gold held in the world than silver for the purpose of investment bullion. Silver is being artificially suppressed for several reasons although it's true value is closer to $260 per ounce (as stated above in this thread). I have no idea if it will return to its actual value or when - but some people say it's already happening now. ABC's staff are watching a continuous rise from Silver as it rides along with Gold at the moment.

explorer wrote:Spoke to 4 british guys that were looking around as they were taking silver bars back to England in their luggage to avoid a 20% vat tax on silver over there.
.

That's where a lot of ABCs silver goes. The Brits love it but I can see their government blocking this some day further down the track. They're not fond of people getting such a free ride. And, in a related subject, the Australian Government is under the impression that they are losing Billions (with a B) by allowing people to buy items for under $1000 from overseas via online purchases.... with retailers complaining that people are buying from overseas and not buying from the stores.... so guess what they're considering? That's right - the Government is considering taxing all online purchases though the ATO admits that this will be hard to implement. Therefore the best method will be HUGE fines to discourage false declarations.

Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet but China is pushing Silver forward as the new "Investment Metal" and have retained 60% of their Silver for their own stockpiling. In July 2008, the rare metal Rhodium was said to jump from $300 per Ounce to $10,000 per ounce in just a few weeks although I think it was hovering just below $1000 per ounce around 2002. Silver is said to be headed to the very same figure in 10 years time if Extinction occurs. Type in SILVER and $10,000 on YouTube and you'll see plenty of speculators talking about this... sounds absurd, doesn't it? But when you see what's happening with gold and silver at the moment, it's probably going to be a self-fulfilling prophesy. I really wish I'd invested more heavily in gold about 15 years ago. My work associate says many people were burned in the 1970s when Silver was once tipped to skyrocket and many were burned badly when it fell and stayed down. He says there's plenty of solver reserves around the world and that it's nonsense that Silver will be worth investing in. I'm not inclined to believe that this applies to today though because silver is certainly a finite metal due to heavy silver mining and industrial demand. Silver is indeed being heavily purchased right now due do anticipated and projected demand. With tens of thousands of applications, silver is more essential than gold alone. Gold has virtually a singular use (aside from several NASA applications and a few medicinal applications) and is almost exclusively used as a representation of self worth or as a monetary backing. With the expanding demand for silver in applications, plus the added demand for it as an investment metal, I believe people are predicting the scant remaining stockpiles to increase in value exponentially over the next ten years. Gold is being tipped at reaching a hypothetical $15,000 per ounce in ten years... which seems absurd to us at this time.



Some of the PAMP Silver I picked up today from ABC - note though that this was being held especially for me and I understand they don't have more available....

You can still purchase Bullion from your broker although there's a wait until Mid January to take physical possession of Swiss minted ingots. I do not recommend storing precious metals at home for safety reasons and most bullion dealers will offer a physical storage option with full insurance. Serials are always removed from my photographs for obvious reasons. All the ABC staff I spoke to seemed somewhat surprised at the heavy demand for large silver PAMP ingots at the moment. They certainly appeared to be impressed with the steady rise of silver on the world market.

We handled a few larger Gold ingots and I handed some of our larger nuggets to the staff to have a look at (as they Assay and Refine Alluvial Gold by the way). I've always been told for many years that if you want to invest in Gold, you should buy 10 ounce ingots if possible as they offer the most portability and liquidity for their size. The 250 gram Gold ingot they had from PAMP (which is on display at the far end cabinet) feels fantastic in the hand at 1/4 of a Kilo. Possibly because of its size Vs weight ratio. I love handling larger bullion but I usually end up scratching my head and wondering why there's all this fuss over something that's really just a metal from the ground. It doesn't seem to have much more purpose other than being able to trade it in at a later date... hopefully to turn a profit. Then you pick up an ingot and you're captivated all over again.


I bought this Silver US coin over the internet a few years ago as I wanted it for my collection. But when it arrived, one side was perfect but the other was all scratched up. You can see the damage HERE. I returned it after I took this photograph but I think I only paid about $16 for it at the time... an Ounce coin today is worth a bit more than this right now. The seller happily refunded my purchase, however he seemed to be surprised that I didn't want the scratched coin because all his other customers were buying for "investment purposes", not to stick the coins in their collection. Be wary of buying Silver coins online at the moment for investment purposes because a MASSIVE portion of the silver coils in circulation on EBay are actually well-made fakes from China. Many have entered the USA where they are resold on Ebay. I don't know what the fakes use as a base metal but some are steel or iron cores.... as they will stick to a magnet. If silver does indeed climb in price as a precious metal, most coins like this will be cashed in and probably melted down long before the upwards trend hits the halfway mark.

The future should be interesting for Silver. Almost wish I'd bought more of it last year.

UPDATE: In relation to my comment above... Online shoppers have just been given a temporary reprieve for GST.
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/shopping/online-shoppers-spared-gst-for-now-20101124-187io.html

I followed your advice and purchased silver from the perth mint, there does seem to be a good gap between the mints buying and selling price.

How is the trend going or have i made a mistake as the gap was quite large. There is about a fifty dollar delivery fee with insurance on top of the price.

NERO et al,
CHECK OUT www.silverseek.com.....the comments by THEODORE BUTLER (THE SILVER GURU)......also the article by Dr. Jeffrey Lewis.

Birdman wrote:I followed your advice and purchased silver from the perth mint, there does seem to be a good gap between the mints buying and selling price.

How is the trend going or have i made a mistake as the gap was quite large. There is about a fifty dollar delivery fee with insurance on top of the price.

Jeepers Birdman, I'd certainly do some more research on your own before taking anyone's word on Bullion trading unless you trust them personally. When buying and selling metals, the Mints always charge brokerage fees and barring fees (a bar handling fee) which is how they make their money in the first place. If you bought the silver made locally (eg Perth Mint or ABC Bullion), it will be cheaper than buying silver (or Gold) that has been shipped here from more recognized Mints overseas (eg PAMP Suisse). Perth Mint is recognized internationally and I think ABC is too now... which means you don't have to have the ingots melted and re-assayed to prove their metal content. But if you buy ingots from "ünknown" smelts (eg "Uncle Dave's Ingot Co", they'll need to be re-melted and assayed at your expense if you choose to sell then in future.

In the end, it cost less per ounce to buy larger ingots than smaller ones... so investors usually buy bulk in larger ingots. There's less fees involved.
I imagine the delivery fee with insurance would apply equally to either gold or silver. Should cost almost the same to deliver 10 kilos as it would to deliver one within Australia. Most people leave their bullion in the Vault at the mint and then buy/trade online or with a phone call... hence less fees.

IT'S CALLED DUE DILIGENCE..........................

sandy2010 wrote:
IT'S CALLED DUE DILIGENCE..........................

Silver at $29.31 aussie as we speak

Gold at $1446.00 aussie

Aussie dollar at 0.958 and slowly falling against the Us dollar which is good for Aussie gold prices.