Depth testing the GPZ

Hi all,

Has anyone had a chance to test the Zed against a 5000 with an 18" round coil?

IGotBigNuggets wrote:Hi all,

Has anyone had a chance to test the Zed against a 5000 with an 18" round coil?

Not an 18, but a 16 round NF Advantage.

Didn't matter what I tried with the 5000, including maxing the gain to 20 and every available timing, the ZED gave a clearer more pronounced response on every ( buried ) target, using only difficult / high yield with gain at 17 and no audio smoothing.

I don't hold much faith in air testing only.

Nuggets ranged up to 13.2 grams, with a variety of solid and not so solid.

I do, however, have a very good ZED, others have not been so lucky !

Rick

During testing,the GPX 5000 coupled to a 16 inch Detech round mono,on a solid 2.5 oz slug of natural gold,gave us a depth of 16 inches (max) in an air test.The 18 inch NF mono did 17 inches on the same slug. The GPZ 7000 with its 14X13 inch coil gave us 17 inches depth on the same slug of gold in (High Yield,Difficult,audio smoothing low,gain 9.)  19 inches when in gold mode "General",all other settings the same & 20 inches depth in extra deep,again with the same settings.
By the way,there is bugger all difference,on positive targets,between running in audio smoothing "Off" on the GPZ, or " Audio Smoothing set in "Low" setting. The difference being,a slightly quieter,smoother running detector,over the variably changing,higher mineralized soils,when in audio smoothing low.
The GPX 4500/5000 came close,but at no time,did the 4500/5000 beat the GPZ,during a string of different target tests,whether set in ground,or on ground as half cocked,air tests.  

Cheers Kon.

kon61 wrote:During testing,the GPX 5000 coupled to a 16 inch Detech round mono,on a solid 2.5 oz slug of natural gold,gave us a depth of 16 inches (max) in an air test.The 18 inch NF mono did 17 inches on the same slug. The GPZ 7000 with its 14X13 inch coil gave us 17 inches depth on the same slug of gold in (High Yield,Difficult,audio smoothing low,gain 9.)  19 inches when in gold mode "General",all other settings the same & 20 inches depth in extra deep,again with the same settings.
By the way,there is bugger all difference between running in audio smoothing "Off" on the GPZ, or " Audio Smoothing set in "Low" setting. The difference being,a slightly quieter,smoother running detector,over the variably changing,higher mineralized soils,when in audio smoothing low.
The GPX 4500/5000 came close,but at no time,did the 4500/5000 beat the GPZ,during a string of different target tests,whether set in ground,or on ground as half cocked,air tests.  

Cheers Kon.

The upshot here Kon is that the ZED, which only runs a 14x13 coil, beat the GPX that was running bigger coils, and that is part of what I find so impressive about the ZED !

I have found slugs up to 9.3 grams with my ZED in amongst my own GPX holes in a heavily gridded patch, where I have used up to 20 inch round monos. Dud, on that other " forum ", claims this makes me an incompetent operator, however, those with an half ounce of common sense understand that it is not the operator, it is simply that this ZED technology is finding gold that the GPX's have missed, similar to how the GPX's found gold missed by the earlier SD / GP's. In some areas, the amount and size of the gold is quite considerable.    

Rick

Koni. your test results are a mirror on what is happening all over the gold fields. the z is finding heaps of gold on old patches left behind by the gp and gpx series. our deepest was in a creek below a patch that had been gridded with 18-20 and 25 in coils and was a small 1 x 4 inch piece of steel at just over a meter. the most memorable piece of gold was 24mm in diameter and was measured at 20 inches with the pinpointer in the hole before removal and when crushed contained 3.5grams of gold.

Absolutely agree with you here Rick. The GPZ might not be in leaps and bounds ahead of the GPX 5000,but I can assure all here,it is an overall improvement over that of past PIs and If anyone here says you need your head examined,that would make two of us competent users talking through our rear ends hey?  People should get off cloud nine and stop trying to justify this and that. A detector,like any other,man made tool,does or does not do,what it was designed to do.Its as simple as that. No need for any crap in between.
People should also not base,comparison testing,of a GPX 5000 in "Normal Mode" when putting it up against the GPZ 7000 in soil type "Difficult " when one knows,you can't ground run them in normal mode,over mineralized soils,without going insane with false signals.
Change that & spot on tricky,for that now makes three competent operators,that might need their heads examined for stating the facts?
To all who it may concern,listen and listen good. It is on undisturbed,in ground targets,where this new GPZ technology works its magic,way above and beyond,the capabilities of all past PIs,not in air tests.

Cheers Kon.

All very well, Kon - if you have a good ZED to start of with. I can use my 5000 with a 11 mono on "normal" and beat my ZED in any setting, 2 out of 6 targets on a test patch with known, pre-buried targets at set depths. In the 4 cases where the ZED won the contest it was by a margin of only about 8% over the 5000. These are big targets representing one ounce up to three ounces. Sure, ML said my ZED was defective and it has yet to be tried and tested again, but there's an increasing number of people that haven't been as lucky getting a good ZED as you & Rick. Often the complaints are justified and 2800 bucks worth of parts and poor solder joints in mine proves it was/is a lemon. There are obviously others who are probably lacking in 30 years experience that don't know they have "lemons". The "competent operator" self congrats, back slapping thing isn't a good look. It comes over as dismissive to others that are suffering badly both financially and mentally with this thing. I've got the emails to prove it; they are peed off to the max.

I've just had my mate on the phone from Kal and he agrees with a saying that I use often, "If you are finding more than the odd bit on an old patch, then you must have done a poor job on that patch to start with". Like me, over the last 30 years, he's used every machine and coil combo he's ever owned on his old patches and found very little - even with a ZED. So who's competent and who's not?

It is equally galling to read of the Elite 14 inch coil finding gold at ALMOST the same depth and various size as the ZED can. I'd hazard a guess that for 450 bucks you can damn near change your 5000 to a ZED, give or take 5% functionality. What's left in the ground may not be worth the cost of a ZED. Mine certainly wasn't and I wish I'd never seen the damn thing - repairs or no repairs. There is no comparison between what's happening on the WA Goldfields now and what happened in 1995 with the SD 2000. Back then, there was nobody who wasn't getting a bucketful, despite the dustbin lid coil failures. And there was none of this "zero point one grammer and proud of it". For 11000 bucks!! I want a lot more than that for that kinda money.

BTW - direct from the horses mouth at Minelab Tech yesterday - they use a "rule of thumb" that says if you can pick up a 5 cent coin in an air test at 18 inches distance then the machine is OK for depth/senstivity. If Minelab can use that test as yardstick why can't we? Stability is another matter,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yes, but can you wander round all day with your 5000 in 'normal' without going nuts?

Alan,

You have a point - up to a point. I can use a 5000 in "normal" quite a lot. It's certainly less infuriating than my ZED has been. Of that I am certain. But as you say, the 5000 in normal can be handful but switch into "Enhance" to dispose of THE ODD hot rock and it's not too bad at all. But digging GOOD SOUNDING falsies regularly to a foot in depth, putting up with "salt lake size hee-haws" for hours on end is just totally unacceptable to the point of infuriation from frustration at the price of 11000 bucks. My ZED is/was barely better than a 5000 with standard ML coils and "nothing fancy" in the settings. Twice the ZED was worse in depth and when stability was factored in the 5000 was the winner across all cases. I can only tolerate excess noise for so long. I've done many salt pans in my time and when I doing that I expected and tolerated the imbalance. But I find it intolerable to have the "hee-haws" 80 kms from the nearest salt pan, up a hillside on solid greenstone ground.

BTW - if you'd care to see my 7000 vs 5000 test results that give little support to the statement that the ZED is vastly superior to the 5000, you can PM me with your email address.

ichi-ban wrote:Alan,

You have a point - up to a point. I can use a 5000 in "normal" quite a lot. It's certainly less infuriating than my ZED has been. Of that I am certain. But as you say, the 5000 in normal can be handful but switch into "Enhance" to dispose of THE ODD hot rock and it's not too bad at all. But digging GOOD SOUNDING falsies regularly to a foot in depth, putting up with "salt lake size hee-haws" for hours on end is just totally unacceptable to the point of infuriation from frustration at the price of 11000 bucks. My ZED is/was barely better than a 5000 with standard ML coils and "nothing fancy" in the settings. Twice the ZED was worse in depth and when stability was factored in the 5000 was the winner across all cases. I can only tolerate excess noise for so long. I've done many salt pans in my time and when I doing that I expected and tolerated the imbalance. But I find it intolerable to have the "hee-haws" 80 kms from the nearest salt pan, up a hillside on solid greenstone ground.

BTW - if you'd care to see my 7000 vs 5000 test results that give little support to the statement that the ZED is vastly superior to the 5000, you can PM me with your email address.

With due respect Ichi-Ban,

And I mean no insult when I say it, but your 7000 vs. 5000 test results are worthless, because you had a dud 7000, which has been confirmed by Minelab !

Those of us who are lucky enough to have a good ZED are not finding this, in fact all our tests show that the 7000 is better on all targets, ranging from a little better to massively better, depending on the ground conditions and type of gold encountered.
Steve ( Madtuna ) said this : " It is a marvel on specimens, in fact we have some that wont even signal on a 5000 when you run the specimen on the coil, yet they are very audible on the 7000 " and Scooter said this : " I broke a couple of bits off as I was chiselling out 44 and 11 grammes and was surprised that the 5000 did not make a peep when these were waved over the coil  these smaller bits were absolutely  full of fine gold throughout I was amazed that the 5000 made not a sound ".

These are not isolated statements.

There is no doubt that the ZED struggles on some ground, particularly when wet, so clearly Minelab have some work to do here ! There is also no doubt that there are QC problems at Minelab. When you pay that much for a machine, you have every right to expect a lot better !
I feel for you, and the others who also have duds.
The silence from Minelab in my opinion is a disgrace. IMHO Minelab should publicly admit that there are some serious problems with this release, but I doubt they will !

Rick

ichi-ban,if one's coughed up $10,700 for a poor working,faulty,ZED,then I suggest they take it back to Minelab and get it sorted out. There are the odd duffer/batch with any consumable theses days,but no point in loosing sleep over it "Get It Sorted Out" and the sooner the better.The only reason I can justify what I bought,is when I put it to the test,not only with previous Minelab PIs but up against 3 other mates who all bought their GPZs from different locations.They were all found to be on par with one another,or does anyone think that one would sit in silence knowing their machine works at 20% less than the other?
Neither do I find the new design coils from Coiltek or Nugget finder one bit galling.More of a bonus I'd say,for the ones who couldn't justify coughing up $10,7000 for the GPZ. Shame it took the introduction of the GPZ to hit the markets,before these new line of coils came out.
Now as for using the GPX 5000 in "Normal" you're either prospecting over benign ground,putting up with constant falsing over mineralized ground or basing all your results on air tests over quiet ground? Which of these is it,cause I can't swing a coil anywhere in the golden triangle quietly,in normal mode,without constant falsing.
Here we go again,a highly conductive 5 cent coin at 18 inches? All previous PIs were capable of that with any 18 inch mono coil.Hell my 2200d was getting a soft but clear 17 inches depth,on the 5 cent coin,using an 18 inch Commander DD. But a bold statement like that,I consider to be not from the horses mouth,but more like from the horses rear,for I'm after gold nuggets when swinging a coil,prospecting for gold,not 5 cent coins that others might have left buried behind. All or any tests "Must" be performed over and on naturally found gold nuggets,not high conductive alloyed metals.They must also be performed on known gold localities,not in local parks. You already would have noticed the GPZ giving you less depth on a 5 cent coin than your GPX could and I believe that's got you concerned,but what you don't realize is that the GPZ has not been aligned to give you best performance on 5 cent coins.
Now I'm not having a go at ya ichi-ban,I'm just letting you and others here know what I'v experienced.

Cheers Kon.

Kon

If you won't take my word for the "five cent test" then call Minelab and ask for "David". Kevin Clarke is off sick and the other 7000 tech, Darryl is flat strap repairing machines to be taking phone calls. "David" the military minesweeping development guy filling in for Kevin. Call, ask for him and ask him, as I did, about "the 5 cent test". Get it for yourself before calling me out as a liar and a horses arse. That info came from Minelab. So now your calling ML technicians and ML, that built the very machine that you are praising. Take it up with them.

My machine arrived back from ML last Friday and I awaiting the resolution of some serious family issues before I can get out again.

FYI - ask any physicist and they will tell you that Australian coinage is as close to gold in conductivity as you will ever get without using gold. PM your email address and I can send you the figures on that from a PhD of Geological Sciences, Senior Lecturer, Kalgoorlie School of Mines, Western Australia.

I'm willing to accept your comments about how good you are and how good your 7000 is but I'm surprised the moderators of this normally polite forum haven't pulled you in for abusing people with comments such as "horses arse" above. I must be mistaken in thinking that forums are about sharing knowledge and experiences - good or bad?

Ichi-ban,you'v completely misinterpreted what I'v said or referring to. I am not calling you or anyone else for that matter a liar. You do not base a 5 cent coin in the same bracket/conductivity as a natural gold nugget of the same size or shape. I don't really much care of who said what,or holds degrees in this or that. I'm a detectorist,with many moons detecting under the sun,using a whole range of different type of metal detectors,designed for locating gold,throughout the years. I can assure you I personally have not found a single nugget of the same size/shape/weight/composition,which can match a current Australian 5 cent coin to a T,or do you think I'm lying to ya? That's why I referred to the 5 cent coin test,as being misleading and not conclusive,for no two nuggets are the same,but you can bet your sweet boots,5 cent coins are.
By the way ichi-ban,what I praise is what I see and perceive to be the truth,not what is said by this bloke or that,as being true.

Cheers Kon.

I remember years ago it was common to drop a 1 cent coin into the hole when you did a number 2.
Maybe with inflation it's now 5 cents. Don't wash either in you mouth ........

My experience with the 7 is confirming the 5 45 and previous hasn't left much behind.
I'm finding lots of bits but those over 1 gram stand out.
Not getting the he haws and quite like the way it works.
Like the GPS, better than a chain.
Going to run it noisy next trip.

Bit like Mad Tuna with my experience, still working it out.

I am detecting for more than ten years, The 7000 is my fifth detector but I never heard that 5 cents give the same signal of a gold nugget, but any way live and learn, about your defective detector why don you solve the problem with Minelab and move on, every time that someone post something about the zed you come out with your problem, I have a very good detector and I am very happy with the results and so others hundreds people on this forum, sharing experience is good but reading obout your bad experience every time is boring.
This is my opinion and I am not offending anybody but please move on.

The 5c coin test is a benchmark comparison, so that anyone in Australasia can test their unit to see if it is up to scratch. One dude with a stuffed coil was struggling to get it in air much over a foot.

18" tamed down, 24" running hot.

I've completed an air test with a 5c coin in high yield, normal with sensitivity 9, I can only get a signal to 8inches.
in another test, I buried the 5c coin (in quiet ground) 12in and got a faint signal in high yield, normal. If I changed either (or both) of these settings I got no signal at all.
Is my zed under performing?

GoldProspector wrote:I've completed an air test with a 5c coin in high yield, normal with sensitivity 9, I can only get a signal to 8inches.
in another test, I buried the 5c coin (in quiet ground) 12in and got a faint signal in high yield, normal. If I changed either (or both) of these settings I got no signal at all.
Is my zed under performing?

It's on par with the other Zeds that have faults and under perform.

You should get about 16" to 18" air test on a 5 cent coin in "High Yield" and "Difficult" and sensitivity between 9 to 12 and audio smoothing "OFF" this is what I get anyway and this is about what is achieved by others when there machines are functioning correctly.

cheers dave

thanks for the feedback. my audio smoothing was off also. I'll give ML and call and send it in for a check.

AraratGold wrote:

kon61 wrote:During testing,the GPX 5000 coupled to a 16 inch Detech round mono,on a solid 2.5 oz slug of natural gold,gave us a depth of 16 inches (max) in an air test.The 18 inch NF mono did 17 inches on the same slug. The GPZ 7000 with its 14X13 inch coil gave us 17 inches depth on the same slug of gold in (High Yield,Difficult,audio smoothing low,gain 9.)  19 inches when in gold mode "General",all other settings the same & 20 inches depth in extra deep,again with the same settings.
By the way,there is bugger all difference between running in audio smoothing "Off" on the GPZ, or " Audio Smoothing set in "Low" setting. The difference being,a slightly quieter,smoother running detector,over the variably changing,higher mineralized soils,when in audio smoothing low.
The GPX 4500/5000 came close,but at no time,did the 4500/5000 beat the GPZ,during a string of different target tests,whether set in ground,or on ground as half cocked,air tests.  

Cheers Kon.

The upshot here Kon is that the ZED, which only runs a 14x13 coil, beat the GPX that was running bigger coils, and that is part of what I find so impressive about the ZED !

I have found slugs up to 9.3 grams with my ZED in amongst my own GPX holes in a heavily gridded patch, where I have used up to 20 inch round monos. Dud, on that other " forum ", claims this makes me an incompetent operator, however, those with an half ounce of common sense understand that it is not the operator, it is simply that this ZED technology is finding gold that the GPX's have missed, similar to how the GPX's found gold missed by the earlier SD / GP's. In some areas, the amount and size of the gold is quite considerable.    

Rick

Agree Zeds find gold differently and that Dud is a moron...

Come on fellas, air tests, are you serious.I have resisted posting about the 7 but here goes.Maybe the first one sold was special, if that's the case , I've got it and I can tell you it's something else.It's payed for itself and is well on the way to doing it again. I've still got my 4 and 5 but they haven't looked like coming out of the cupboard since the 7 came along. Learn to drive the thing, think about what your doing and where your doing it, repeat,.

Tunnel Rat wrote:Come on fellas, air tests, are you serious. It's payed for itself and is well on the way to doing it again. Learn to drive the thing, think about what your doing and where your doing it, repeat,.  

Come on Tunnel Rat, have a bit of fellow feeling for those who've forked out over 10 grand for lemons, and stop kicking them in the guts with unhelpful comments!

I agree wholeheartedly Alchemist. It'd great if someone like Tunnel Rat could actually tell us "unfortnates" how to do what he reckons we should be doing. Settings etc.

Hi people, long time not here. My internet access got wiped out and im sick of battling against unknown morons who want to wreck what I own so haven't and wont reconnect.
I just sold my 7000 after trying it out against 5's and with other 7's to make sure it was at least the same as theirs, the 7's.
So unimpressed that I sold it. There is ground out there the 7 is pitiful in and as that constitutes most of the areas I hunt I ditched it. To be out and see a 5 match and at times beat it was a major disappointment.
The 7 is NOT what it was represented to me as being.
Yeah I read about air tests and how we should learn it and how we must be doing something wrong blah blah blah, but when you get out in the field and see your $10700 new acquisition get caned by a machine half the price, well lets just say its not impressive.
To those who have a so called good one, or have been simply lucky enough to go over ground that has not had a lot of attention, like private land or just simply places that haven't been caned, well good on you, seriously, but otherwise what a lump of garbage it was.
I know of some guys doing pretty good with them, ha, detecting at night on private land or in National Parks, but otherwise I got ripped off.
Minelab, shove your 7's. Im going back over ground with my 5 and finding obvious gold the 7 missed! Before the minelab wagon riders reply, yes I tried all different settings, read the white papers, tried what JP reckons and what all here reckoned to try also.
Minelab, shove your 7's.

Canned Heat,

Thanks for that. It just about sums up my feelings as well. I couldn't have put it any better. I did all of it, the whole nine yards as you described below,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and it's still a bucket of crap. I think I actually went two steps better than you. I actually tested mine on proper test patch against a 5000 with an 11 inch mono and the 5000 beat the ZED on two targets whilst the ZED barely beat the 5000 on the remainder. I then sent it back to ML for repair and it's now testing on the same patch as very slightly worse than it was before it was "repaired".

I have CT Elite coil arriving next week for my 5000. Then watch the manure hit the helicopter blades!

I have an email from one guy that says he can't get a 5 coin at greater than 8 inches. He then sent it to ML for repair and they tested it on "their test patch" and guess what? ML say it meets specification! He's a member on here. Hi Dave!!!

Well my 7000 beat a 5000 with the coiltek elite coil on this actual target, a specie which the 7000 got at 100mm and the 5000 couldn't even hear when the specie was rubbed on the coil. Its the same old story some detector and combinations get targets better than others and nothing has changed, the 7000 gets some better the 5000 gets some better, and so it goes.

25 gram specie with fine gold all through it. Be careful what hot rocks you through away.


cheers dave

by davsgold on Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:22 pm

Well my 7000 beat a 5000 with the coiltek elite coil on this actual target, a specie which the 7000 got at 100mm and the 5000 couldn't even hear when the specie was rubbed on the coil. Its the same old story some detector and combinations get targets better than others and nothing has changed, the 7000 gets some better the 5000 gets some better, and so it goes.

25 gram specie with fine gold all through it. Be careful what hot rocks you through away.

              Thanks for that honest and frank commentary Dave ,interesting . Dave just curious ,but do you reckon the 2300 would of got that as well ? Dave with that broken piece, could the 5000 hear it then ? And quite can't make out the host rock ?? Just mineralised Quartz ?? Yeah it's a bit scary with hot rocks ,never know what/if anything's in them  

Davs,

it's well known that the 5000 is hopeless on that kinda fine gold specie. ML accept that it's a hole in the 5000 technology. We had a paddock full of that kinda gold on our lease north of Leonora. We bulldozed it but only got 7 more species like that. The guy that found the patch originally got about 120 ounces after crushing. He had to buy a Whites GMT to hear 99% of 'em. Of the 7 lumps that we got, the 5000 could only hear one. The remainder never made a murmur.

I tested these 7 under the ZED and heard only five of them. I'd like to test them under the 2300 but that machine is here in the bush and the species are back in Perth. DOHH!!

Sorry to hear that Canned Heat!
I know from your earlier posts you gave it a damned good chance to prove itself.

When the Z technology is mature it will be fantastic, but for now it mainly fills a specialist niche, that some will be able to exploit to the max.

I kept my 4500, and testing has revealed it will signal louder and easily go just as deep when searching for solid chunky stuff in quiet ground.

Admittedly my 45 has retro fitted B grade preamps which have much tighter tolerances than the A grade.
It just goes to show how cheap Minelab have become. On a unit costing over $6000 they penny pinched using lesser grade devices, reducing potential performance just to save a few bucks on the BOM costs.

I expect they will have done the same on the Z. By not using the best grade devices, they have widened the operating tolerances way too much from the prototypes.

Cheers
Kev.

hugh62 wrote:
              Thanks for that honest and frank commentary Dave ,interesting . Dave just curious ,but do you reckon the 2300 would of got that as well ? Dave with that broken piece, could the 5000 hear it then ? And quite can't make out the host rock ?? Just mineralised Quartz ?? Yeah it's a bit scary with hot rocks ,never know what/if anything's in them  

G'day huhg62

I never tested the 2300 on it before I dug it up but after being dug up the 2300 screamed on it, so possibly would have heard it in the ground, but I will never know. The host rock seems to be some kind of Ironstone with a tiny bit of Quartz in the top lumpy bit, but I am no Geo so it could be just black mineralized Quartz.

The 5000 and coiltek elite combo still never heard it even when broken in half like in the pic.

Les I appreciate what your saying about the 5000 and all the GPX etc not hearing fine disseminated gold in species, I was just making a comparison that was interesting that's all, I know the 5000/4500's have done a wonderful job cleaning up the gold.

cheers dave