Crevicer Gold Sucker

Hi guys I also belong to the Alluvial Gold Prospecting site on the net and we have had a long discusion on this subject and the results came to :- that the hand held sucker pump was deemed as a small dredge, as at the end of the day it has moving parts (hand opperated, I agree, but moving parts just the same) so deemed machinical. The law states you can not remove any gravals that hold minerials by mechanical means only hand help non-machanical tools. Sorry guys but if you get cought by the ranger he can have you up for using a device the same as a dredge. I know it is a thin line and it may be up to the ranger on the day to either charge you or just give you a warning. But please do not use them up at Eldorado that place right now is a bom ready to go off. We have been trying to get this type of unit clarified properly but in the mean time it is still looked at as a dredge.
wombat

I have as yet not been able to find ANY reference to HAND TOOLS WITH MOVING PARTS Not being allowed to excavate material.

I have sent the Dept Of Primary Industries a request for a complete hard copy print out or pdf of all of the Vic miners right rules , regulations and definitions.

They did not want to speak to me on the phone (I got the Run Around) and they basically said don't call us we will call you.

Untill I see the rules in toto in black and white stating that a yabby pump is classified as being a dredge I will remain unconvinced.
Everything i have read so far on the forum has elements of doubt and has all been hearsay. If it is not hearsay then will somebody direct me to a site that displays ALL OF THE RULES AND REGULATIONS.

When I obtains my miners right I was supplied an abreviated rules list that is as vague and confused as a stunned mullet in a shark tank on a dark night in hades

Old rule under the Westminster style of government " ignorance of the law is no excuse"

But I do comend you for taking my advise and contacting the relevant dept ! Good move ! I do hope the forthcoming info will be of benefit to all of us ! The only one rule that worries me in all my dealings is this one " the lands manager on the day has the final say" let's. Keep this post going in a informative manner guys and not let it slip into name calling as some other posts have done ! ( attack the post not the poster) Merry Christmas to all the folks in here .

It is another grey area like the one that says that the bed of a stream is not private property. But nobody seems to be able to define exactly what the bed of a stream is - in the water, within the banks, below high water mark etc etc etc.
Jig.

Jigalong, a stream used to be defined as the stream bed and one chain (22yards) from the high water mark). I can't find anywhere that this law has been repealled. This applies in Vic. but unsure elsewhere.

Thanks Holedigga. I don't think we have a precise definition like that in NSW. We are not as smart as you Mexicans !
Jig

Just had a half hour chat with Dept Earth Services.

The yabby pump is still grey area although it falls within the Mechanical tool area. It was a very interesting chat and I have discovered that you can no longer peg ground under a MINERS RIGHT. you need an prospecting license before you can to do that........Ok! Ok! so I am a bit behind the times

At the present time the yabby pump is deemed to be a mechanical tool and as such is not legal as a gold extraction hand tool. The dredge issue is not applicable to the yabby pump.
If you did use this gadget and were sprung by a ranger or similar authority they could if they liked let you continue if you were not making a mess or they can tell you to pack it up, in which case don't argue the point. This situation may change for the better in due course.

It seems that it is easier to inroduce a law than it is to repeal it.

Also it won't be too long before you will not be able to use a High Banker (may have a size limitation)?

Adrian ss wrote:Just had a half hour chat with Dept Earth Services.

The yabby pump is still grey area although it falls within the Mechanical tool area. It was a very interesting chat and I have discovered that you can no longer peg ground under a MINERS RIGHT. you need an prospecting license before you can to do that........Ok! Ok! so I am a bit behind the times

At the present time the yabby pump is deemed to be a mechanical tool and as such is not legal as a gold extraction hand tool. The dredge issue is not applicable to the yabby pump.
If you did use this gadget and were sprung by a ranger or similar authority they could if they liked let you continue if you were not making a mess or they can tell you to pack it up, in which don't argue the point. This situation may change for the better in due course.

Also it won't be too long before you will not be able to use a High Banker (may have a size limitation)?

It does ! No more than 5 hp motor in the North East of Vic.

And then they also have that thing about abnormal disturbance of the site ! So the days of a group trip to a creek or river is frowned on unless the miners SPREAD themselves out along the said creek or river ! Makes sence !

Thanks for the update I'm sure we have all benefited from your endeavors

Ark wrote:

Adrian ss wrote:Just had a half hour chat with Dept Earth Services.

The yabby pump is still grey area although it falls within the Mechanical tool area. It was a very interesting chat and I have discovered that you can no longer peg ground under a MINERS RIGHT. you need an prospecting license before you can to do that........Ok! Ok! so I am a bit behind the times

At the present time the yabby pump is deemed to be a mechanical tool and as such is not legal as a gold extraction hand tool. The dredge issue is not applicable to the yabby pump.
If you did use this gadget and were sprung by a ranger or similar authority they could if they liked let you continue if you were not making a mess or they can tell you to pack it up, in which don't argue the point. This situation may change for the better in due course.

Also it won't be too long before you will not be able to use a High Banker (may have a size limitation)?

It does ! No more than 5 hp motor in the North East of Vic.

And then they also have that thing about abnormal disturbance of the site ! So the days of a group trip to a creek or river is frowned on unless the miners SPREAD themselves out along the said creek or river ! Makes sence !

At the moment you could legally have 10 men feeding a big high banker or sluice so long as they were not making a big mess

Ahh me thinks you play the devils advocate ! I used to have a big one It used to take 4 good men to feed it ! I was challenged over Bendigo way because of the size of the unit and had to pack it away and then argue with the dept about it . I won eventually but I did have to cut back the feed to two men lol! The size of the thing had them worried as they were maintaining I was mining not fossicking or prospecting . Yes the rules are very vague and always slanted in the dept way .

Hi Adrian, I have got one of these, slightly different in design but works the same way. Used it
quite a bit while living in Arizona, and it worked very well. Have had some of my Gold gear shipped
back home to Qld and will definitely be using it here when it arrives. I have read the Qld rules pertaining to
Dredging, and I am convinced that this Sucker is not breaking any laws here.

I did ask a NPW ranger in a NSW State forest that I was camped, if my post hole shovel, (2 handles that open /close
with double shovel head action , would be considered a mechanical device, and he laughed.
Not sure if he laughed at the stupidity of my question, or wether it was a cover, because he didn't know the answer.
In any case, I am willing to use mine when it arrives, and if I find out any information to the contrary, I will
let the forum know.

Funny you should mention the hole digger just now.
I was in Bunnings yesterday arvo looking at the exact same item and wondered if it would constitute an mechanical hand tool for gold work.

Technically it is and it also demonstrates the ridiculous nature of the current laws.

G'day Adrian, unfortunately this subject has been tossed around plenty, and if your moving gravel then there deemed illegal!

I use my hypothetical yabby pump for checking the stomach content of such creatures and for a simple means of adding fresh water to my bowl full of yabby's without fear of the little suckers getting away! Gold as always is just a by-product!

Even witnessed a prospector using a solder sucker in a crevice

A SOLDER SUCKER!!!! OMG!! NOOOOOT A BLOOMIN SOLDER SUCKER IIYEEEEEEE!! NOOOOOOOO!!
That iz a dead set Moooovin Parts hand Mechanical TOOOOOOOL OHHHHHHH THE SHAME OF UT ORL OOOOOH Tha Devastation Tha ecological destruction.

The yabby pump (modded for gold work)is designed to lift sandy grade soil not rocks and gravel. If you try to use them to lift rocks and gravel they/rocks n gravel will make short work of the valve washers and block the extraction hose in no time flat. These hand pumps are for sandy size material, unlike a propper dredge that due to the nature/design of the venturi, can handle larger gravel and some decent size rocks and runs continuously.

You two are a pair indeed lol!

My thoughts exactly shouldu reported the user

Obviously thats how paranoid people are! and he still got sprung

Apologies if your the one, and your a member, but really!! your a bad man

Duh! Now I know my grey hair is my 'blonde' hair ... but what the heck is a 'solder sucker' ... or am I really dumb??

Poor Kate

O Ohhhhh ... looks like that really was a dumb question

You have had a very sheltered life

A soder(Yank Term for solder) sucker is a gadget about the size of a very very very large fountain pen that looks and acts just like a yabby pump.
It has a spring loaded plunger and an teflon nozzle.
You push the plunger down and lock it in this position aaaaaaaand theeeen yer hold the open end of the nozzle close to and over any melted solder that you want to collect and then release the plunger which shoots rapidly to the top of the sucker tube drawing the solder up into the tube/container where it cools and solidifies and can then be emptied out into a bucket and ya can then pan it off. .... I mean into a scrap solder bin.

Like the yabby pump there is no venturi.......Ut just Suuuucks MAAAAN.

AAaaaaaahhhh!!! Now there ya go! Ya learn somethin evry day ... not sure what I'm going to do with it but I HAVE definitely learned something today!!

Kate, where an informative bunch when we wannu be

The problem with the solder sucker, "is" the idea can be amplified!!

Take for example an effluent pump, a good one not a shite one and it will suck big time????

You could not amplify it to much because when the the plunger is released it could fly up smack ya in the earhole, break ya wrists fly up into the trees and maybe bring down a couple of drop bears ....... Yeah ut could become an serious environmental hazard........Also sounds like a good idea for the next Korean missile launcher ......Be better than what they have been using lately

Never been in the slammer -cost them a fortune to feed me there anyway so that doesn't overly worry me. What does worry my though is the fine that can be imposed for using a dredge - the good book says: a fine of $110,000 for an individual & $220,000 for a company applies. (NSW debt problem would be solved with a flyover of Ophir creek near Ophir - 5 inch dredge has spent weeks operating & undercutting the banks to do it. )
Gary

Maybe they are refering to something like the old Eldorado dredge MAAAAAN I'd like ta fire that ole baby up Gotta be better than a yabby pump hey!

JohnApthorp wrote:Never been in the slammer -cost them a fortune to feed me there anyway so that doesn't overly worry me. What does worry my though is the fine that can be imposed for using a dredge - the good book says: a fine of $110,000 for an individual & $220,000 for a company applies. (NSW debt problem would be solved with a flyover of Ophir creek near Ophir - 5 inch dredge has spent weeks operating & undercutting the banks to do it. )
Gary

Well shame on those who have first hand knowalage of it and do nothing!!!!!! We will all suffer for the actions of these fools! I see from another post in here that some of the locals in the Beechworth area in Vic have formed a group called Maim ,,, Miners against illegal mining! And have been instrumental in getting a 6 inch dredge impounded and the two persons involved will be taken to court. Those in NSW need to do the same thing or don't bother coming in here in say 12 months bemoaning the fact that there is no where to sluice for gold !

I was told at school and a recent First Aid Course that all joints in our body are mechanical and there are electronic signals going from our brain ( whats left of them ) to all parts of the body . So that may be bent in court as using mechanical/electronic means of panning .
Panning is also a combination of mechanical and gravity .
Using a detector is electronic .
What is needed is a clear cut definition of the law , not a brief description printed on the back of the miners right .

I have my own gold sucker that I made over 17 years ago , if it ever go's to court from me using it will be taking a rock with me and if I lose tell them when they can extract
blood from it them I will pay them .

The law is simple and clear. You can use non mechanical hand tools to dig. People need to read it, learn it and obey it. When the Mineral resources development act was being initiated to replace the old 1958 mines act i was involved in the working party with specific attention to what you can use under a miners right. People will always try and beat the system but basically it means USE A SHOVEL!!!!!!
This law is not vague, indecisive, unclear or whatever term people like to use.
Maybe a letter to the dept. asking them to change the text on the back of a Miners Right to "shovels only to be used to dig", might clear it up.

What can't I use my pick anymore.... I don't think so....

Cheers.

Mike.