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Post  GoldstalkerGPX on Sun May 01, 2011 9:49 pm

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Last edited by GoldstalkerGPX on Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : pointless)
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Post  Guest on Mon May 02, 2011 5:14 am


Gday strijk

I take it its a Toyota Landcruiser FZJ79 ute?, I dont have the same model but an earlier HZJ75 troop carrier, and I have found the braking system on it rather lazy too, although that only has discs on the front and drum brakes on the rear, I would expect that the 4 wheel disc brake system on your car should be a lot better.

The last time I did the brakes I also replaced the rear wheel cylinders and fluid and and now they are a lot more responsive, perhaps if you have not looked at the condition of the cylinders it may be worth your while, I found also its easier to just buy new cylinders than mess about with reconditioning the old ones, and comparative in price too.

With these bigger vehicles you also have to drive them a bit like a truck anyway as they have many of the same characteristics, take your time and always give yourself plenty of room, they simply dont respond in the same way as a road car and you cant expect them to I suppose.

cheers

stayyerAU




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Post  ABBAGOLD on Mon May 02, 2011 9:57 am

Hi, Sounds to me you may have a crook vacuum pump or vacuum assist diaphragm.
With no assist the brakes will be very dodgy and you will push hard on the pedal for response.
Also another thing is the brake proportioning valve on the rear diff if the arm is bent you will only
have front brakes.It stops the rear brakes locking up when you have no load in the back.
Cheers Alan
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Post  Guest on Mon May 02, 2011 2:19 pm

I would recommend a second opinion from another brake expert. With 4-wheel disc brakes it should pull up very well.

Robert

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Post  strijk on Mon May 02, 2011 9:09 pm

Thanks everyone!
Much appreciated advice
Abbagold/alan has described what is happening, push hard on the pedal for response.
I will follow this advice and see what result I get.
I am off to Leonora again Weds with a mate from Sandstone, we are both fairly inexperienced, but will enjoy our time trying to find that illusive nugget.
Regards Goldstrijk

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Post  Guest on Sun May 08, 2011 7:26 pm

Abbagold has a good suggestion. There are many factors to take into account including, as was suggested, the proportioning valve. This needs a pressure guage to set it up correctly, but not too many mechanics would have one. Old brake fluid is another major cause as it can be loaded with moisture and heat from the rotors causes it to boil/bubble very quickly causing braking pressure loss. I have been involved with certain overloaded vehicles that were difficult to stop. Can't say much more about what vehicles, but the answer after experimentation was slotted rotors. These made an unbelievable difference as the slots allow the gas between the rotor and pads to escape. Braking improved by 50%. I don't know if you can get slotted rotors for your vehicle, but if you can't there is another trick you can do.
Put 2 hacksaw blades together in a hacksaw and cut about ⅓ of the way through the brake pad in a X pattern. This allows the gas to escape as well. If you are not familiar with brakes it may be an idea to get a mechanic to do it. There are a number of different composition pads available nowadays and a Brake parts Supplier may be able to give advice to suit your needs.
Brakes that will not stop a vehicle are NOT normal.
I must say that I spent many years in a Toyota dealership and never had a complaint about brakes like you seem to have.

Panther

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Post  strijk on Fri May 20, 2011 3:33 pm

G/Day fellow gold searchers,
Thanks for the responses
I had the master cylinder replaced this week and there is an improvement, but still not satisfactory.
The next step I think will be to adjust the rear lever as suggested by our mechanic, the ute has at least 500kg load in the rear most of the time, the previous owner upgraded the suspension to 3 tonne capacity.
What do you guys think?
Regards Goldstrijk

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Post  Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 4:18 pm

Hi strijk There is every chance that because the suspension has been beefed up, that the body may not be settling down far enough to allow the load proportioning valve to function correctly. Usually the front takes about 75% of the braking load and the rear 25%. To set this correctly you need to fit guages to the wheel cylinders when you have a load on the vehicle, then adjust your proportioning valve to suit. This is a static test and is done easier on a hoist.
I don't like making a diagnosis without seeing the vehicle myself as there are other factors, but I hope we have been of some help.
P

As an afterthought, extraordinary wear on the front pads would also point to the fact that the rear brakes were not doing their part. This would take a few klms before evidence would be visible.

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Post  strijk on Fri May 20, 2011 5:03 pm

Hi Panther,
By crikey mate, I think you have nailed it!
The suspension was upgraded (compliance plate to prove it) and the ute does sit a lot higher than normal, but I think no-one gave a thought about the proportioning valve for the rear brakes.
Come to think of it, the so called brake experts, when I had the pads and discs replaced, mentioned that the front ones were very worn and did I tow a caravan?
The worring thing about this is, I have taken the ute back to them three times and was told there was nothing that could be done!
Thanks for your input, I will be doing something about the valve this week and will keep you posted.
Regards Goldstrijk

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Post  Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 9:35 pm

If all the above fails? Just press harder! Very Happy

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Post  bobsreturn on Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:08 pm

Sounds like you need better service/ advice , from someone who is not covering past errors geek , had a similar problem with a mazda ,but it was the goodrich rubber, long trail that didnt grip ,squeeled nicely though affraid . The new triton stops trailer and tractor no worries 1700 kgs with out trailer brakes and only has disc drum , so your rig should do really well with disc disc

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Post  Narrawa on Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:31 pm

Brake pads that cost little, stop little. Many brands of pads will last forever, but offer no stopping power when they are called upon for those times we need to pull up fast!!
Take a look at what cab drivers use, they use whatever last the longest as they did with the use of light truck tyres on their cabs for the longevity factor. I believe its illegal to run light truck tyres on passenger cars now days.

I spend over 500$ having the brakes redone on one of my rides a few yrs ago, to find my foot entering the engine bay via the firewall on my way home for a cow crossing the road. The next day i had them replaced with brand name pads that actually wore out....and stopped when asked.
Cheap pads also fade rapidly with heat.

Just another thought.???
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Post  Guest on Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:31 am

A little bit of attention to your brake discs also is important and don't forget to have your brake fluid flushed at least once a year
as it absorbs water and loses it's efficiency.

Robert

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Post  Nightjar on Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:44 pm

If you take your vehicle to a brake specialist they can hook up their potable vaccum pump to your clutch booster and then your brake booster. In minutes they can determine if your boosters are serviceable.
If they check out OK it could be as mentioned your vaccuum pump.

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Post  djthebigfella on Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:51 am

Maybe look at bendix metal king pads they work better than standard pads many people may not like metal pads as they say they wear out the disks wquicker but what is better stopping or not. Just remeber the metal pads work better when hot so when driving first thing in the morning the first peddal press may not be the best but once they get some heat into them they will work well. Also check the recation disc in the brake booster if it has turned soft you may have a sloppy peddal. easy cheap fix should onyl be a couple of dollars but it was a while ago i working in the brake and clutch industry so inflation may have raised the price. Danny

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