The 2023 state of the climate report: Entering uncharted territory

The 2023 state of the climate report: Entering uncharted territory
“Life on planet Earth is under siege. We are now in an uncharted territory. For several decades, scientists have consistently warned of a future marked by extreme climatic conditions because of escalating global temperatures caused by ongoing human activities that release harmful greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. Unfortunately, time is up. We are seeing the manifestation of those predictions as an alarming and unprecedented succession of climate records are broken, causing profoundly distressing scenes of suffering to unfold. We are entering an unfamiliar domain regarding our climate crisis, a situation no one has ever witnessed firsthand in the history of humanity.”
https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/advance-article/doi/10.1093/biosci/biad080/7319571?login=false

The Aborigines keep telling us that they have been here Since "The Beginning Of Time".
Since the time they were here in Australia (suggested 65,000 years) they would have experienced at least two Ice Ages and two warming periods in this country.
     So maybe just ask them to elaborate on the warming periods aye?

Of course in reality, no human or any other animal has been here on the planet since the beginning of time.........Lets see, hmmmm, the beginning of time as we perceive it to be was around 4.6 billion years ago for the earth and around 13 and a bit billion years for the universe, so over all, time began 13 billion years ago.

Room there for plenty of cooling and heating periods and also for humanity to have risen and fallen many times over without leaving a trace of their existence.
      So I reckon we will survive one more heating cycle dontcha think......With or without EVs and wind farms or solar power.  

adrian ss wrote:The Aborigines keep telling us that they have been here Since "The Beginning Of Time".
Since the time they were here in Australia (suggested 65,000 years) they would have experienced at least two Ice Ages and two warming periods in this country.
     So maybe just ask them to elaborate on the warming periods aye?

Of course in reality, no human or any other animal has been here on the planet since the beginning of time.........Lets see, hmmmm, the beginning of time as we perceive it to be was around 4.6 billion years ago for the earth and around 13 and a bit billion years for the universe, so over all, time began 13 billion years ago.

Room there for plenty of cooling and heating periods and also for humanity to have risen and fallen many times over without leaving a trace of their existence.
      So I reckon we will survive one more heating cycle dontcha think......With or without EVs and wind farms or solar power.  

     Adrian,have you read the  climate report?  Why don't  you address some of the findings and issues that it raises  and provide  some credible evidence that the present warming is all natural and nothing to worry about? Tell us for example why the planet is warming  much, much faster then we have emerged from past ice ages. Tells us why the troposphere is warming and the stratosphere is cooling.Tell us why raising the atmospheric concentration of a greenhouse gas 40% above levels over the previous 1 million years will not lead to rapid warming?   (the average C02 level during ice ages was 180 ppm and during more temperate warm periods was 280 ppm) the present atmospheric level is 421 ppm!!!!!! and we are on track to reach over 500ppm before this century ends, a level not seen for 50  million years!
https://earth.org/data_visualization/a-brief-history-of-co2/
https://theconversation.com/climate-explained-what-the-world-was-like-the-last-time-carbon-dioxide-levels-were-at-400ppm-141784

I'm thinking, I'm thinking. Give me a second or two to come up with a counter blow. I will have my tea first.

Sorry mate I lost my mojo. Sister had to go to emergency and now suddenly global warming does not matter much to me anymore.. We will survive no mater how much bloody CO2 is in the ground, trees or atmosphere. troposphere, ionosphere. magnetosphere, or any other sphere you can think of.

adrian ss wrote:Sorry mate I lost my mojo. Sister had to go to emergency and now suddenly global warming does not matter much to me anymore.. We will survive no mater how much bloody CO2 is in the ground, trees or atmosphere. troposphere, ionosphere. magnetosphere, or any other sphere you can think of.

Hope your sister is ok. No our survival is not guaranteed if we continue  business as usual with fossil fuel use. Their is the real possibility  of a climate tipping point where we push the climate into an irreversible state with the world just getting hotter and hotter and the weather  more extreme. We also know that very high co2 levesl in the past earth history have been associated with mass extinctions.
https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/climate-change/19-mass-extinctions-had-co2-levels-were-now-veering-towards-study-warns
https://interconnectedrisks.org/explore/tipping-points
https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/what-are-climate-change-tipping-points

What with all this fake global warming and changing over to Solar, wind and battery power and EVs that nobody can afford along with the up and coming generation unable to purchase a home; the up and coming collapse of the tourist industry and international travel and electricity prices being too high for people to be able to afford air conditioning for their dwellings (whatever they might be)  combined with the global warming,.....we will all soon be dead meat for the wild animals to chow down on. .....Bring it on dude.

Adrian global warming is NOT fake.A huge body of evidence and the known and well understood physics of greenhouse gases  tells us that anthropogenic global warming is now proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

Planet are, why do keep trying to convince people to do something about climate change? If it's real there is nothing we in Australia can do to stop it. As you well know if we ceased all carbon emissions in Australia tomorrow it wouldn't make any difference. If it's not real then there's nothing to worry about.
Ceasing all emissions won't help the fire or weather problems either.
So why bother trying to change people's minds?

granite2 wrote:Planet are, why do keep trying to convince people to do something about climate change? If it's real there is nothing we in Australia can do to stop it. As you well know if we ceased all carbon emissions in Australia tomorrow it wouldn't make any difference. If it's not real then there's nothing to worry about.
Ceasing all emissions won't help the fire or weather problems either.
So why bother trying to change people's minds?

Every country even small emitters like Australia must do their bit to reduce emissions.Developed countries like Australia and others must take the lead if we seriously expect developing countries to reduce their emissions.

adrian ss wrote:What with all this fake global warming and changing over to Solar, wind and battery power and EVs that nobody can afford along with the up and coming generation unable to purchase a home; the up and coming collapse of the tourist industry and international travel and electricity prices being too high for people to be able to afford air conditioning for their dwellings (whatever they might be)  combined with the global warming,.....we will all soon be dead meat for the wild animals to chow down on. .....Bring it on dude.

Adrian RUOK?

Feel free to go first Adrian, but most of us on here would prefer to live a little longer & not carket it before ones time hey?

Kon

Gentlemen take heed & not let this debate blow out of proportion, or it will be terminated.
Granite, this section were created for all writeups other than gold detecting & as long as members on here adhere to the rule of "respect for one another" all can be discussed.
Even though Australia's contribution to atmospheric pollution is considered to be probably less than 1%, like everything in life, it takes one step at a time to make changes to the world we live in & we all have the responsibility of doing so, when events require of such.

Kon

planetcare wrote:

granite2 wrote:Planet are, why do keep trying to convince people to do something about climate change? If it's real there is nothing we in Australia can do to stop it. As you well know if we ceased all carbon emissions in Australia tomorrow it wouldn't make any difference. If it's not real then there's nothing to worry about.
Ceasing all emissions won't help the fire or weather problems either.
So why bother trying to change people's minds?

 Every country even small emitters like Australia  must do their bit to reduce emissions.Developed countries  like Australia and others must take the lead if we seriously expect developing countries to reduce their emissions.

Seems to me to be a tad stupid to be taking CO2 level readings from on a volcano and saying that they represent world CO2 levels.

Carbon dioxide levels measured at NOAA’s Mauna Loa Atmospheric Baseline Observatory peaked at 424 parts per million in May, continuing a steady climb further into territory not seen for millions of years, scientists from NOAA and Scripps Institution of Oceanography offsite link at the University of California San Diego announced today.

Mauna Loa is one of five volcanoes that form the Island of Hawaii in the U.S. state of Hawaii in the Pacific Ocean. The largest subaerial volcano in both mass and volume, Mauna Loa has historically been considered the largest volcano on Earth, dwarfed only by Tamu Massif. Wikipedia

planetcare wrote:

adrian ss wrote:What with all this fake global warming and changing over to Solar, wind and battery power and EVs that nobody can afford along with the up and coming generation unable to purchase a home; the up and coming collapse of the tourist industry and international travel and electricity prices being too high for people to be able to afford air conditioning for their dwellings (whatever they might be)  combined with the global warming,.....we will all soon be dead meat for the wild animals to chow down on. .....Bring it on dude.

Adrian RUOK?

Yes I am fine mate, just poking the bear.

Yep, we must do our bit even if it means destroying our economy.
Labor spout how the LNP left us a trillion in debt but happily consign us to a debt of many trillions for a system that even the experts tell us won't do the job

adrian ss wrote:

planetcare wrote:

granite2 wrote:Planet are, why do keep trying to convince people to do something about climate change? If it's real there is nothing we in Australia can do to stop it. As you well know if we ceased all carbon emissions in Australia tomorrow it wouldn't make any difference. If it's not real then there's nothing to worry about.
Ceasing all emissions won't help the fire or weather problems either.
So why bother trying to change people's minds?

 Every country even small emitters like Australia  must do their bit to reduce emissions.Developed countries  like Australia and others must take the lead if we seriously expect developing countries to reduce their emissions.

Seems to me to be a tad stupid to be taking CO2 level readings from on a volcano and saying that they represent world CO2 levels.

 Carbon dioxide levels measured at NOAA’s Mauna Loa Atmospheric Baseline Observatory peaked at 424 parts per million in May, continuing a steady climb further into territory not seen for millions of years, scientists from NOAA and Scripps Institution of Oceanography offsite link at the University of California San Diego announced today.

Mauna Loa is one of five volcanoes that form the Island of Hawaii in the U.S. state of Hawaii in the Pacific Ocean. The largest subaerial volcano in both mass and volume, Mauna Loa has historically been considered the largest volcano on Earth, dwarfed only by Tamu Massif. Wikipedia

Adrian CO2 levels are measured at many other locations! eg cape grim in Tas and the values there and at other locations are very similar to Mauna Loa .

granite2 wrote:Yep, we must do our bit even if it means destroying our economy.
Labor spout how the LNP left us a trillion in debt but happily consign us to a debt of many trillions for a system that even the experts tell us won't do the job

If we do very little or nothing then countries that are may impose import tariffs other economic sanctions on us!!!

If we destroy our economy we won't need to worry about international trade we won't have anything to trade. And blackout Bowen is doing a good job of stuffing up the economy already.

granite2 wrote:If we destroy our economy we won't need to worry about international trade we won't have anything to trade. And blackout Bowen is doing a good job of stuffing up the economy already.

The facts are that many of our coal fired power stations are reaching the end of their life and those that still operating cannot compete with renewables  for the price of electricity. So we have to move away from fossil fuel  generated electricity to much cheaper and cleaner renewable energy.

Nuclear seems to be the only way to go but the anti nuclear activists funded by renewables don't agree

granite2 wrote:Nuclear seems to be the only way to go but the anti nuclear activists funded by renewables don't agree

No nuclear is the most expensive form of electricity and costs of plants is astronomical!

Less politicians blunder after blunder at the tax payers expense, I believe Chinas ignorance/arrogance towards not stating the truth about Covid-19 from day one, nor going out of their way in order to contain or keep such virus from spreading, was the beginning of the demise of worlds economies Jim, followed by wars overseas, all of which contribute to the snowballing effect we see today. (greater poverty, global Inflation & cost of living expenses.
Change to the environment, climate or that of the worlds economies must come, for change is inevitable over time, so too must we find a way to adapt to such changes, or pay the price of doing nothing at all.
All the scientists round the world can't all be incorrect, when their facts/figures show (an increase in world temperatures) mostly due to mans contribution of the burning of fossil fuels into the atmosphere.
Bottom line here, we either take some form/s of action in order to help reduce the devastating effects of rise in temperature & changes to climate,  or sit back & watch the show unfold. Something of which might not be in mans favour in the not so distant future.

Kon

Well most of us will just have to put up with it as there is nothing we can do to change whatever the outcome will be.
It will be a case of beggering ourselves and then watch whatever unfolds.

Here is a pretty picture of the worlds CO2 levels and how they are distributed.

All of those thin orange lines are ships planes and trains and autos plus every other source of CO2.
    As you can see Awstraya's contribution is not worth even putting on the screen
We are a small population spread over a vast area, our CO2 emissions are miniscule compare to the Northern hemispheres contribution.

Trying to achieve Net zero GHG here will cripple our remaining feeble economy and will drive our entire population into the Poor House.

CO2 emissions by country:
https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country.
Very easy to see the worst offenders....All in the Northern Hemisphere.

The USA with a population of approx 400.000,000 people produces approx 500 tons of CO2 per Sq km./ year...If stats and the science are correct?

Australia with a similar surface area to the USA has a population of approx 24,000,000 people and produces approx 53 tons of CO2 per year per sq km.

Yet when I look out my window all I see is squeaky clean air  and very healthy plants...unless you happen to be in an area surrounded by bush fires at the moment.

According to the disciples of Bowen and of course Albo the cost of nuclear energy is the most expensive form of energy there is and the build time far too long, but wait... if this is so why are so many countries, including the developing country of China building them hand over fist?

And while these are the most modern of nuclear power-plants they are not yet SMRs. Many European countries, 34 at last count are using and building nuclear power-plants and ordering many SMRs when they become available.

We must think ourselves lucky we have Albo and Bowen. These two, it seems are far smarter than the governments of at least 34 countries. Let's give ourselves a pat on the back for electing these two. If we hadn't we'd be forced to pay something like half the cost of electricity we are now, like Canada who was foolish enough to build so many nuclear power plants and then having the temerity to use them and force lower costs on their citizens.

And France, who have done much the same and have so much low cost nuclear power they are forced to export it to unsuspecting countries to get rid of the surplus.

On the 7th of October it was estimated it would cost 387 billion to replace all of our 70 coal fired plants with SMRs this is of course not on, especially when you consider it is going to cost well over a trillion dollars to get us down to 80% of our emissions using renewables... Boy, we are lucky we dodged that bullet. But wait... we don't need to replace all 70 coal fired power stations with nuclear because renewables will be able to cover at least 10% of our energy requirements. Wheeeww, that can't be good.

I can't wait to see our Labor government re-elected next election, they are doing such a good job.

Disclaimer: no disrespect meant by the author of this tongue-in-cheek bit of fun.

But wait... with nuclear we won't need to spend all those hundreds of billions on building 10,000km of new power grid across prime agriculture land and our wonderful forests. Wow, Bowen and Albo will be so pleased.

granite2 wrote:According to the disciples of Bowen and of course Albo the cost of nuclear energy is the most expensive form of energy there is and the build time far too long,

A detailed  study by CSIRO and other has shown the nuclear energy is  many times  more expensive  than wind or  solar. The latest uk reactor is now estimated to cost 40 billion Australian dollars!!!!!!!

I reiterate, Albo and Bowen are so much smarter than the governments of 34 other countries and their CSIRO equivalents

granite2 wrote:I reiterate, Albo and Bowen are so much smarter than the governments of 34 other countries and their CSIRO equivalents

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-says-hinkley-point-start-now-june-2027-costs-rise-2022-05-19/