Which Mono coil.

I am going to buy one new (GoldStalker or Advantage) Mono coil for use in wide open type areas. I have to decide between 12x18.5, 12x24, 16, or 18 sizes (and I do not want round 12 or 14 sizes). How much depth will I sacrifice with the 12x coils? How many small nuggets will I sacrifice with the 16 and 18 coils? I have been going over and over in my mind.

If you were going to buy a new Mono coil, which of the 4 sizes above would you buy for use in wide open type areas?? Thank you!

I always go round with coils if I can help it, for outright coverage in wide open spaces the 24 x 12 ellipticals are very good but do sacrifice some depth compared to an 18" round. I also have thought a lot about what it is I don't like about elliptical coils and have finally put my finger on the reason after purchasing a 12" round Nugget Finder Advantage monoloop, I should point out here before I go any futher my thoughts are about Monoloop coils only.

Signal response is the reason why I prefer round Mono's, plain and simple. If a target is close to the coil both round and Elliptical respond the same (with the elliptical generating a slightly sharper response on the shallow gold hence their popularity) but if the target is at depth where the whole of the receive surface is required to cultivate the response the round coils win hands down. The information generated by a round coil is far superior in my opinion and helps in the identification of a possible target at depth, because a round coil is equal no matter what angle or direction you look at it it generates a response equally as well across the whole surface of the coil which aids in the definition of the data coming back to the point where a ground noise is more often than not more recognizable against a true target response.

If any particular point on the coil is the same as a randomly chosen point somewhere else, the coil has to manifest its response in the same manner unless the target distances start to impact on the closest point of the winding where a response can be heard individually rather than the whole winding being required to generate the response (this has to do with distance from coil of the target say when you are pinpointing with the coil on edge for example). This equality of the coils inherent design is what allows users to make an informed decision on possible deep targets where the subtle differences are more apparent, this does not however say that a similar sized elliptical coil will not be able to respond to the target just that the information generated by the round design is much more refined.

The elliptical shape is not so important on the transmit side of things because huge amounts of power are used to blast the magnetic field into the ground, it is the receive part of the coil which is far more important because the receive is trying to pick up or gather resultant energy created by disturbances in the transmit field far weaker than the original transmit strength (minute in comparison), as you can imagine if the coil is narrow in one direction compared to another then the information is picked up over a much narrower area so is restricted through surface area, but it is also affected due to the coils dimensions not being equal in relation to each other either. This difference in shape helps on the shallower responses and also helps in a physical sense with topography etc but to my mind is limiting with the information from deeper gold.

Hope this helps,

JP

Speak to anyone who detects and you'll find a variation of opinions out there. Some buy the same coil that their friend uses and can't be persuaded that their friend might be wrong. Others pick up biased opinions from sales persons trying to sell them coils that aren't moving any other way. Some are just oddballs - many of whom remain convinced that only Brand-X will find gold. Asked if they use their Brand-Y coil, they'll claim that they leave it at home and only use Brand-X. Of COURSE their Brand-X coil finds ALL the gold!! They never use their Brand-Y coil because they leave it at home. Prospectors can be a very superstitious lot to boot. Needless to say, Coil Performance is always a hot topic. But with so much misinformation out there, it's hard to know what to buy.

As JP said, the Round coils are going to have a more even EM-field distribution and are favored for this reason. I'm waiting for Coiltek to get around to releasing their larger round Double-D Goldstalkers and want to obtain one around 16"+ (or there abouts). Elliptical coils give you a LARGER footprint on the ground and allow you to weave your 'narrow-shaped' coil between rocks and around objects a lot easier. They can also cut down a bit on the weight of the coil. Ellipticals have been used for Gold hunting for decades now so you don't need to overlap the coil nearly as much since you cover more ground with each sweep. Try using a 6" coil to patch-find and you'll see what I mean! I note that even JP sports an occasional elliptical coil in his DVDs.

Something I like about Elliptical coils is that when the sides are more narrow (than a round coil), the field emission collapses slightly (hence the slightly shallower depth to a round of the same length) and the field itself usually becomes a little more dense as a result. A stronger field emission means a better chance of target response. Remember those two Prospectors in Victoria who found a 400+ ounce patch last year? I noticed they were using an Elliptical Monoloop on their GPX-4500 - it looked like an 18.5" Elliptical Coiltek Goldstalker Coil (correct me if I'm wrong... it was certainly either a Coiltek or a NF coil).

I've met some serious Prospectors who spend a lot of their time in Western Australia and they refuse to buy anything else other than Elliptical Monoloops from Nugget Finder. Others won't use anything other than a Commander Coil from Minelab. Those who frequent Victoria will notice a LOT of Elliptical Coiltek's out there. Those who work in the industry that I've quizzed prefer the round coils... preferably Double-Ds between 14 to 18 inches wide.

Hot coil preferences at the moment are as follows and are not in any specific order of preference:
Coiltek 14" Monoloop ELLIPTICAL
Coiltek 16" Monoloop ROUND.
Coiltek 18.5" Monoloop ELLIPTICAL.
NuggetFinder Advantage 14" ELLIPTICAL
NuggetFinder Advantage 24" ELLIPTICAL

Previously, the top coil preferences by a lot of users were as follows (again, not in any specific order):
Commander (Minelab) 15x12" Double-D SEMI-ELLIPTICAL
NuggetFinder 17" Monoloop ELLIPTICAL.
NuggetFinder 14" Monoloop ELLIPTICAL.
Coiltek 18.5" Monoloop ELLIPTICAL.

Note that the most POPULAR coil -(based on the sheer number of people using it)- is always the stock Double-D Minelab 11" round coil. This is a well balanced and responsive coil that has won a LOT of gold as it is arguably the best balance of size, weight, depth and sensitivity for all typical targets. Large coils have benefits like greater depth but have lower sensitivity to smaller nuggets, whereas smaller coils have EM-fields which are denser and thus are more sensitive to smaller nuggets... but they lack serious depth in many instances. Only you can decide what you need.

I just purchased a new coil a few hours ago. I wanted to try out a NEW NuggetFinder Advantage coil and selected the somewhat massive 24" Monoloop coil for the job as I had need of a larger coil. I ran a few stacked tests with it to see what the response was like and... well, I liked it. The new coils from NuggetFinder seem to have undergone a process of review and have new features (tougher split-resistant construction, UV resistant plastics, 2 year warranty, LITZ shielding to reduce EMI, supposed heightened sensitivity to small targets and have apparently been watersealed with O-rings and tested for 24 hours under half a meter of water). If it lives up to the hype these will be very popular and effective tools.

The end choice of which coil is suited to you is going to depend on your own needs and personal hunting preferences. There's no point at all in buying a huge 25" round coil for salt flats when you hunt in hilly or rocky country. But an elliptical coil will probably serve you well when you are hunting such uneven areas where a narrower coil is handy. If you are working an extensive quartz reef for specimen gold....or areas where small nuggets are plentiful (eg Tibooburra), then a smaller coil with it's denser field would be the desirable choice. I prefer a round Double-D coil myself. But I also like a bigger coil with a stronger field so the Ellipticals are the best way to cut down on weight and bulk. If you compared two identical sized round coils: one being Mono and the other a Double-D, the Double-D coil will supposedly have a slightly denser field based on the windings. But squeeze in the sides on the Monoloop and the field will collapse, making the signal response shallower but the resulting field will be slightly denser and possibly more sensitive to smaller targets than the Double-D equivalent.

To answer your questions more directly, I've heard that an 18" coil will generally ignore nuggets under 4 grams at the greater depths. Yet some of the more recent coil offerings are supposed to spot the smaller nuggets easily. Everyone has an opinion so go figure! How much depth you will lose will vary depending on what type of coil and how narrow the width vs length is. Again, shave off a couple of inches to estimate the approximate width of a comparable round coil. I was told that Nugget Finder say you should shave those inches from the length. But others claim you have to do it from the width. Again, you can see how confusion reigns here. For actual scientific performance results, only Minelab will produce those figures on request. The lack of direct statements & information by the other manufacturers may be to create the very confusion you are experiencing.

Just weight up your own needs and try not to be swayed by appearance or non-technical reasoning. All three of the main manufacturers produce terrific stuff. Just figure out your local hunting conditions & needs before you pick out your coil/s. The 18.5" Elliptical Goldstalker or the 17" NuggetFinder Advantage seem to be two choices you are considering. I feel either would be a very practical coil for you.


Cheers,

Marco

I prefer to use round coils whenever possible as they give more depth and this is a given. Ellipticals have a place though if the detecting area is scrubby or grassy and are easier to pinpoint with as the tip and heel are very sensitive because of the tighter radius. I personally have 2 elliptical coils, the 14" x 9" NF mono for chasing smaller gold and the 24" x 12" black Coiltek UFO coil for covering bigger areas when it is hard to push a round coil about. My preference falls back to the 20" NF round mono fibreglass coil as this has excellent depth, sensitivity and is not touch sensitive. Second goes to the 16" round NF mono coil. It all depends on the size of gold sought and the conditions you search in. One coil does not do the lot so a variety is needed, and the choice is what the variety happens to be. I've bought some coils that supposedly were the "bee's knees" and for mine they never got close to the bee's damn ankles, so choose wisely or sell off the ones that don't suit you or your detecting style.

Jonathan, do you think that a sore shoulder is the result of a lack of medication or some other favourite pastime?

Qld Sandy wrote: Jonathan, do you think that a sore shoulder is the result of a lack of medication or some other favourite pastime?

Sandy it could be the lack of a HipStick or a row of 5 stitches due to an over zealous country doctor looking for Melanomas or just a complete lack of rum to keep the constitution in balance. I can't think of any other favourite pastime you might be thinking of although I have been called one in the past mate?

Marco looks like you might have perused a certain forum and read their editorial on my so called "Porta Porkies" about coils etc yet in techno jargon basically repeated what I already said, thanks for enlightening us further.

JP

Hi Beer Beeper, there is plenty of good coil advice in the earlier posts for you to digest.

The only ponderance I offer is that if you plan to spend quality time hunting for patches and runs in desert areas or where vast expanses of ground lay in front of you where gold could be anywhere then a good sized eliptical coil should be considered. In such areas the aim is to cover alot of ground and just try hit that first nugget that indicates a patch or run. (then you swap coils to clean up different sized gold at different depths) The amount of extra ground you will cover in an 8 hour detecting day using a good sized eliptical will give you a big edge.

Of course if you mainly detect old timers workings, scratching for deep crumbs left on hot ground mullock heaps of poor mans diggings.... then a round coil is ideal.

Personally i use a CT GS 18.5 mono as my main patch hunting coil. I love it but it does take practice to centre targets and come in at different angles to confirm some targets. The coil has found good sized nuggets and smaller brass targets at depths in excess of 24 inches a number of times and is good on small gold. It has found a couple patches of small gold. Once the run was found with the stalker the 8 inch mono was quickly put on to pick up the 0.1- 0.5 gram pieces that made up the patch.

Cheers Tributer

What an overwhelming response and thank you to you ALL for the extra effort. I see JP just bought a round 12 Advantage for small gold. Taking all the info into consideration tells me to get an Advantage or GoldStalker round 18 mono, with the round coils better balanced receive signal as JP said because of the best of 2 worlds of both better depth on multi-gram nuggets and coverage BUT the downside being heavier and will it sacrifice and miss small nuggets at depth like Marco said, "I've heard that an 18 coil will generally ignore nuggets under 4 grams at the greater depths..". (Marco, is that a round 25 or 12x24 Advantage that you just recently bought??) As Qld Sandy said the round 16 mono (is a good compromise) but it does not have as good coverage.

So what then? If I did not care about depth on small nuggets under about 1 to 4 grams the round 18" mono would be my coil. Yes the round 18 mono will find small 1 gram nuggets we know but at less depth than a 12x18.5 mono. BUT as Tributer explained in patch finding a lighter 12x18.5 mono(the same applied to the old 12x24 UFO) will pick up the first small tip-off nugget like a deeper 1/4 grammer at depth that a round 18 mono might miss altogether.

I have said that elliptical mono's like the 12x18.5 and 12x24 mono's have a more ellongated longer hot spot having more effective coverage and requires less overlapping than a large round mono like the round 18 mono. Thus a 12x18.5 or 12x24 mono for patch finding rather than and over a round 18 mono because of the better small gold finding ability at depth for a patch finding tip-off nugget requiring less overlapping.

Some people will say use a Big Red 12x24 DD. That is fine but isn't a 12x24 mono a better choice if the ground is not too noisy? I think so.

So what an I going to buy then, torn between the 12x's and the 16 or 18 rounds?? I sure like the 12x's small gold getting ability with great coverage but the round 18's extra depth is very attractive(or a round 20 as Sandy uses). I am not 100% sure now, but leaning towards a 12x.

Hi JP,
No, I haven't read that post of yours but if you'd care to PM me with a direction of where to look, I'd love to take a look at it. Most of my post was the result of personal interactions with other detectorists. Much of it only taking place yesterday when I was talking to Walt and trying to figure out where some of these myths about coils are coming from. It was just a coincidence that I bought my own coil yesterday. There's just so many beliefs out there which are devoid of logic or reason! All the best on your trip BTW!

Beer Beeper: The coil I just bought is an Elliptical (very narrow but super-large). A lot of people (including myself) will say that people with big coils are just d**k-waving. It's probably true in many instances but I've seen the results of enough large coils to know they serve a purpose and get results. Will let you know how it goes as soon as I can get out.

Cheers!

Marco

Nothing actually said by me Marco just in reference to what I said in this thread which your reply then seemed very similar to what they were saying (on another forum in a very derogatory way) to some extent (jargon etc). PM is on its way as an explanation and also to save this forum from getting mixed up in nonsense.

It is a little hard sometimes to explain things in a manner where others can understand but at the same time not get all bent out of shape with the technical scientific side of it all, suffice to say round is best for outright depth small is better on small shallow gold, large is better on deeper stuff and less prone to ground due to less sensitivity, with out of round in the form of elliptical fits somewhere in the between.

JP

Hello JP,

How are you liking the 12" Round Advantage Mono coil? (I see you purchased one.)

Best Regards,
Don

Its a little ripper Don, and has paid for itself already.

JP

Quote: Marco : The coil I just bought is an Elliptical (very narrow but
super-large). A lot of people (including myself) will say that people
with big coils are just d**k-waving. It's probably true in many
instances but I've seen the results of enough large coils to know they
serve a purpose and get results. Will let you know how it goes as soon
as I can get out.

Hi Marco
I bought the Nugget Finder 24 " Ellipt coil about 6 weeks ago and I'm sure you will be happy with it , I found mine to work well and isn't too heavy swing, but find if I do more than one day in a row ,I use a hipstick to help rest the joints a bit.
Nugget Finder sure make good coils but it would be good to be able to read up a bit first if they had a web site.

Mark

Marco : A lot of people (including myself) will say that people
with big coils are just d**k-waving. It's probably true in many
instances but I've seen the results of enough large coils to know they
serve a purpose and get results. Will let you know how it goes as soon
as I can get out.

Hi Marco...
In Victoria the area has been flogged so much that to do any good going over ground that others have been with VLF and PI machines is to come up with some way of going down deeper. The way to do that is to run large coils... personally I use a 16inch and a 25inch round N/F mono and get results. Not d*** waving as u put it...

Ray

Jonathan Porter wrote:Its a little ripper Don, and has paid for itself already.

JP

Where are you detecting at the moment JP, Qld or did you head to W.A ?

With your years of experience you obviously know the spots to look ?

Do you ever detect NSW, or is NSW less likely to produce than QLD and W.A ?


Corey....

Heading to WA this year but am detecting around home (Clermont), have detected most mainland states except for the Northern Territory. NSW in my opinion is one of the last frontiers, have done well there in the past in and around Bathurst, Hill End and Ophir and am dying to get back to a few choice areas we worked back in '96 with the SD2100.

JP

Jonathan Porter wrote:Heading to WA this year but am detecting around home (Clermont), have detected most mainland states except for the Northern Territory. NSW in my opinion is one of the last frontiers, have done well there in the past in and around Bathurst, Hill End and Ophir and am dying to get back to a few choice areas we worked back in '96 with the SD2100.

JP

Co-incidentally i was Google-ing Bathurst as i remembered seeing that Statute of a Gold Panner on the main road through there, as i have tried Ophir a few times now.
Nothing down my way (South Coast).

I was unable to find any public land on the net though, except for a place called Napoleon Reef that was or is a Gold mine, but not sure if that is Public land though or all private/leased.

I purchased your GP Series DVD recently to make sure i am using my Extreme in the correct setting, very informative info, job very well done JP, but it gets me biting at the bit to detect again to find my 1st bit of Gold.

I will get there one day with lots of persistence and rust samples too

Regards

Corey....

I know why I have a bad taste in my mouth and do not have a liking for big Mono's. I used a Minelab 18" mono once while the 2 other people were using smaller coils. After days of detecting I was finding almost nothing and they were finding lots of small nuggets around 1 grams and there abouts. That 18" mono was NOT good on and missing small gold, which is a persons bread and butter in the mean time until a big nugget comes up. JP said he uses a round 18" mono as his daily general gridding coil but now he has bought a round 12" mono. IF the round 18" mono was dynamite on small nuggets at depth there would be no need to get a smaller coil. (Unless re-doing a known patch again with a small coil to pick up crumbs is a good idea.)

In other words I feel the big round mono coils do have there place by getting more and better depth on about 5+ gram nuggets. Yes a round 18" mono will pick up a 1 or 2 gram nugget BUT on these very small size nuggets at less depth, big round mono's sacrifice depth as compared to a 9x14", 11", 11x17", 12", 12"x, and 14" mono's which go deeper on small nuggets than a round 18" mono. The round 16" mono is the absolute biggest coil a person should to use for max depth on small nuggets I feel. Unless these new large round Advantage monos are so very much more sensitive and deeper on small nuggets than the older big round mono coils were.

P.S. As far as coil sizes go, Jack Lange found that the round 14" mono and 12x24" UFO mono were the best coil sizes for all around nugget sizes. (Of course he recommended the round 14 DD and 5x10 sizes also.) Why don't people usually use a round 25" mono for great coverage on general patch finding, because it will miss very small patch tip-off nuggets at depth, and a round 16", 11x17", 12x18.5" or 12x24" mono is better for use in this situation as they will find smaller nuggets at depth better. And yes I have to add better pinpointing as well.

Hope this makes sense and helps, if not read it again a second time, you may not agree with me on some points but this is how I feel.

As I said above, there's a lot of debate raging on the subject of "which coil is best" and not everyone will have the same opinions. I know I've said this before but it's a little bit like Camera Lenses... there's no single lens which is ideal for all situations. A dedicated camera lens is going to give you best results for one particular type of subject or effect. Coils are much the same in this regard.

If I buy a large coil for myself, it's not going to be a Mono unless it's elliptical. I would still buy a large, round coil if it was a Double-D. This is simply my preference. Take a look online or in publications and you'll notice that all the large nuggets retrieved from depth were found with fairy big coils. Some are elliptical and some are round coils. Surprisingly, the 18" DD from Minelab is a very popular choice of coil among the Victorian detectorists. Not sure why that it but I can guess.

There's a lot of benefits in an elliptical mono, especially when it relates to the stronger/denser EMF that it produces. If you want to go deeper, a round coil will give you that depth but there's a few sacrifices that you make with a round... including a lack of sensitivity to smaller targets. People using the large UFO coils (24"? ellipticals) claim that they'll easily detect subgram nuggets. I've also personally seen people dig up very small targets with those coils at a reasonable depth. Part of this reason may likely be the denser field. (This may be why some people are calling the GoldStalker range of coils "UFO's for the GPX".) So with the loss of depth that usually accompanies an elliptical coil, the benefit is that you get an extra long footprint so you have a coil with double the surface coverage. If you go with a LARGE round coil, your signal strength will probably be more diluted, yet the depth will certainly exceed the Elliptical equivalent. The depth of a round coil is certainly unchallenged. Again, it's something the user will have to come to terms with themselves in their decisions and selection.

As Ray pointed out above, there's been so many people waving coils over the most popular places that sometimes the best way to improve your chances might be to consider a larger coil to go deeper... to where people have previously been unable to scan. That's quite logical if you think about it.

Those big 25"+ round coils have their place: On the salt flats & on the plains of WA. Most users won't have a need for more than two coils or maybe three. That would be a larger coil (deep Nuggets), a smaller coil (small Nuggets) and then the stock coil (Ideal All Purpose). I rarely use a smaller coil unless I'm specifically hunting creek beds on shallow soil or around mulloch heaps where small nuggets tend to hide. So it sits in my backpack and can be used as a pinpointer on occasion. The larger coils might be best employed in thrashed areas or regions where large nuggets have been recovered at depth. Most of the time, the Stock Coil or even a slightly larger coil would be the ideal "Patch Finder" coil for every day use. I used my stock GP coil just last weekend and found small nugget within the hour - in a deep gully that was the remains of a dug out reef. Not sure I could have wielded a larger coil as easily in that location.

If you are thinking about buying an additional coil, I'd first suggest a user look at the disadvantages of that particular coil beforehand because it's the "downside" of a product that will determine just how useful (or useless!) it will be to you. Same applies to cameras and their lenses.

Cheers,

Marco

Beer Beeper,
So reading your post about smaller coils... what if the area u are targetting has a history of large nuggets.... so does then the reverse of your hypothesis hold up?

Ray

"Beer Beeper,
So reading your post about smaller coils... what if the area u are targetting has a history of large nuggets.... so does then the reverse of your hypothesis hold up?
Ray"

Hi Ray, you are absolutely right. YES the total reverse of my above post, what I said does not apply when using a large Mono for larger about 5+ grams nuggets and bigger. If you are after larger nuggets with a history of them in an area. The best coil to use then is an round 18", 20", or 25" mono. OR a round 18", 20", or 24" DD.

Also thanks Marco! What a good post. We agree on some things about coils. You like to use larger elliptical Monos or large round DD's. But not large round Monos. I have a fibreglass round NF 20" SL XP DD with the XP switch on the coil, which I love. I am going to use Normal(on the coil switch) and (Boost)Normal-(Soil)Normal(on the machine) from now on with that coil and my GP 3000. This will set it up to find the smaller nuggets better. I do not like to use (Soil)Sensitive.

I have heard that NF Advantage and CT GoldStalker are BOTH soon coming out with a new line of DD coils. Will these new DD coils be better than my NF SL XP DD??? I do not know for 100% sure of course but if I had to guess I would say NO!

HI, I have a ml 4000 and i have a 16" ct and a 12" advantage, and yesterday i went out to an area that i have been over with the ct to see any diference for myself,, (But first i have had my 4000 about 8 months and have swung it for aprox 30 hours, with no fix only trash, i got the nf as the places i go to are fairly fogged out and i want to see if i had too much coil) Again omly trash haha,, but going over the same mullock heaps the nf picked up smaller trash left by the ct depth about 6", things like small nail heads, bits of wire,, it also picked up a target which ended up being a piece of metal about the size of 2, 15mil nuts, and the depth was 1/2 a big walco handle pick down, this had been ignored by the ct,, It had been raining and the ground was soggy for the first few inches, i dont know if this has any play in the impulses or not but other than that the 4000 was tuned the same, & only about 2o channels dif on the self tuner

Thanks for the feedback is appreciated! That is very interesting nuggetman. So the round NF 12 Advantage is a little hotter than the round CT 16 GoldStalker and picked up small stuff that the CT ignored including 2 bigger nuts.

"...it also picked up a target which ended up being a piece of metal about the size of 2, 15mil nuts, and the depth was 1/2 a big walco handle pick down, this had been ignored by the ct..."

That new NF 12 seems very popular and JP just bought one too. I suppose that NF is also making a new Advantage 14 size too and a 12x24 as well. NF is also making a 9x14 Advantage. So many choices on what to get?? I wonder if the new 16 Advantage will be hotter than your 16 CT GoldStalker?

Ok guys you are talking about new coils, what about older coils and what settings.

I was just out in Creswick with a person with a 3000 and an 8 inch mono. She found 7 small pieces around .5 gram. Me with a 4500 and 11 round commander mono was wasting my time, couldnt get near her in sound. So what do you recommend. I almost feel I should send my 4500 back for a service as it isnt sensitive enough. What setting should I use?
I did hear that the early 45's were not as good as the later ones, maybe this is the problem. Over to you.

Jeff

Gday

Theres a lot of great info given here, and I tend to lean towards one particular comment relating to personal detecting style.

Never being a real lover of eliptical coils I have always leant towards round coils as I have felt that they offer better all round performance(pardon the pun), than eliptical coils, and have always seemed to me to give better depth and a more positive signals to deep and shallow targets, I find them easier to pinpoint with and quite frankly have found more gold with round coils than eliptical ones.

Recently purchasing a NF 14" eliptical advantage coil on the advice of friends, I found it to be a coil that definately has its place in the arsenal, with excellent sensitivity and good depth capability, it can be used all day as it is extremely light weight, it will pick up the sub gram pieces and bigger pieces at good depth.

Once the terrain we worked changed to a rocky and rubbly surface then I quickly went back to my all time favorite the Minelab 11" mono commander coil, this coil it dynamite on the 4500 and will find tiny specks and has amazing depth, with great target response, I am constantly amazed at the depth that I have pinged small pieces, but have to admit that I have sometimes feel ripped off as I often think the target is going to be a lot bigger than it is when you get it out.

Anyway getting back to detecting style, and of course your own personal requirements, if you are a casual sometime prospector then there a only a few coils that you will really need, the first being the standard minelab 11" dd that comes stock standard with your detector, these coils are well underated by a lot of operators and as someone else commented they are responsible for a very high percentage of gold that is found annually, they run very smoothly as a dd coil and have good depth, and when run in speudo mono mode they are excellent on small gold, with the added advantage of the descrimination feature still working they are the best choice for working those crappy areas that are still yielding lots of small pieces, and the obvious fact is as they are two coils in one so take up less storage space.

If you want to be able to just run a small mono coil then the 11 minelab commander mono or similar is a good choice, and you will get a lot of extra depth with these too, but no descrimination with these so you have to put up with the rubbish, and also deeply buried shotgun pellets that sound like small gold.

As far as any bigger coils go then the most popular mid range coil would be the 14", either in mono or dd depending on the machine you are using, and if you frequent areas that have a lot of vegetation you may consider an eliptical coil over a round coil, but as you have read previously there is a trade off with these in the area of depth so you will need to consider what would be more suitable to you personally.

One large coil is always good to have with you, theres nothing worse than getting on to some good gold and suspecting that there may be some deep pieces and not having a capable coil to finish the job, there is always the chance of returning to the spot only to find a series of deep holes where the gold was, once again either a dd or mono, but I would suggest a round coil for this as you are wanting the depth capability, my choice would be an 18" round coil for this purpose, this size is a practical size for depth and also the occasional bit of patch hunting.

If you were semi professional or spending more time patch hunting and such then you would have the use for larger coils, but other than this they are rarely used and a waste of money for the casual detectorist, take up storage space and can become travel worn, losing resale value if you decide that you arent using it enough and want to resell them, you just have to decide whether you would use it or not.

Unfortunately a lot of people think that the bigger the coil the bigger the nugget, that can be true in some cases but there is a higher percentage of smaller gold nuggets about than larger gold nuggets, and I wish that I had a dollar for every piece of gold that I have retrieved from someone else old dig hole, pieces they had missed because they are using a coil that is too big and not sensitive enough to the small pieces to give a more positive signal that would cause you to scratch about to find it.

Depending on the type of detecting you do and your level of experience I believe that you simply dont need the larger coils and you just need to be realistic about it all, you would be much happier to go home with a handful of smaller nuggets than no nuggets, and while you are finding even the small bits you are more likely to remain focussed and enthuisiastic about it all.

cheers

stayyerAU

Like you Stayyer, I have great faith in the 11" Mono and expected the same. If you dont mind, what settings would you have on your 4500 when using it.

The main difficulty I would have is where to use Deep settings or whether I should be using Sensitive Smooth, Sensitive Extra or Sharp. Even as I was on Diggings and used that setting, I didnt feel as if I was getting enough response

It is interesting reading other information which is being put forward on how detectors work and Narrawas comparison bw the 3000 and 4500. It is natural to use Enhance and Sensitive Smooth but it doesnt appear that it is going to outdo a 3000 and a 8" Mono

Jeff

Gday Jeff

Usually I run in enhance, and deep, the rest of the settings I vary depending on the day and conditions, also I run an external speaker so I have the volume up reasonably high.

This also has the added effect of keeping other operators a good distance away , as some people like to be on top of you and it makes it hard to concentrate when your getting feedback from them.

Also I dont usually set the gain much higher than the FP as I have found that the extra sensitivity usually causes an unstable threshold, and there does not seem to be any great advantage in that, sometimes this can be offset by turning the threshold up a bit higher, if that dosent work then back the gain off a bit until it is stable and quiet, for small pieces at depth the quieter the machine will run the better.

These settings will of course vary depending on the state you are in so you will have to experiment a bit there.

cheers

stayyerAU

Jefgold wrote:Like you Stayyer, I have great faith in the 11" Mono and expected the same. If you dont mind, what settings would you have on your 4500 when using it.

The main difficulty I would have is where to use Deep settings or whether I should be using Sensitive Smooth, Sensitive Extra or Sharp. Even as I was on Diggings and used that setting, I didnt feel as if I was getting enough response

It is interesting reading other information which is being put forward on how detectors work and Narrawas comparison bw the 3000 and 4500. It is natural to use Enhance and Sensitive Smooth but it doesnt appear that it is going to outdo a 3000 and a 8" Mono

Jeff

Gi'day Jeff,
I find deep is usually too noisy on my machine. If a 3000 was running OK on that ground then you shouldn't have needed Smooth or Enhance. Sens Extra is best suited to sub-gram bits like what the 3000 was picking up, use it with general mode, FIXED GB, a gain of 10-12, and slow motion, manual tune to the higher end of the band 200 -255, stabilizer at FP and a fairly high target volume and it's a killer on small bits.

Cheers
Grey


I find the Minelab times info on the 4500 very useful

Thanks Grey and Stayyer

So it looks like the 45 is saved from the bin again. I will certainly give those settings a shot next time I'm out and let you know how I went.

Obviously others will be reading this post and given the other info given by Narrawa and his experience of the 45 against the 3000, maybe a few of us need to try the settings Grey has given and see how it compares. One thing I notice that you didn't say what coil but we all know that the 8" mono is the killer on small bits anyway.

Stayyer also recommends the 11" mono which I feel is your best all round mono coil, although if you have the funds, some of the new NF Advantage coils may be better and the Goldstawker as well.

Has anyone done any comparison against the 11" Commander Mono?

(A tip - For settings as shown, I generally print them out then seal them in a plastic cover and put them in my Detector bag. That way you have them with you all the time. )

Jeff

G'day,
There’s a point I’d like to add here that relates to the table, Recommended Settings for Extreme to Mild Mineralisation, in my post above. I know it's off topic a bit but it's related to the direction of this thread.

I was doing some playing around the other day with some hot rocks I’ve collected from various goldfields, checking out how the different timings would handle them, and to see once ground balanced to them, whether, or not I could still detect a small nugget on the underside of the rocks.

Some of these rocks are igneous in origin and loaded with Fe minerals. Before balancing them out they sounded off like metal targets. When I look at Nenad’s table he put Normal at the top with a DD giving the impression that this timing and coil combination has the most immunity to ground mineralisation.

However, what I found was I could get Extra, Sharp, and Enhance to balance out all the nasty rocks and still detect the nugget, but Normal would only balance out the most benign ones such as some magnetite impregnated schist, all the igneous rocks would continue to sound off as metal targets.

Either my machine is faulty, or that table doesn’t reflect the best solution to extreme situations?

I’m beginning to think though, when the other table is considered, that my Normal timing is sick?
Anyone else seen similar results?

Cheers
Grey

Gday

For the most part my 4500 completely ignores hot rocks, and has only caused me to inspect a few over the last four trips, the last one I got wasnt a hot rock as first thought but a lump of iron stone with visible gold in it (6.5 grams) so its always worth a thorough inspection of anything that gives a signal.

I first came to realise that the 4500 was so good at ignoring hot rocks after a trip with a mate who had the 4000, after a short time detecting he came over to me and was complaining about the amount of hot rocks he was getting, emptying out his pockets he produced 6 or 7 lumps that he picked up, on running my detector over them I only got a very slight response on one piece, and it was so vague that I would not have stopped to look at it.

With my 3500 hot rocks would scream, and as I always associate hotrocks and nuggets being in the same place would see this as an indicator, but would much prefer not to have to dig them as they could be as plentiful as rusty tin pieces in some places and really cheese you off.

Just as a point of interest I use the 11" commander mono as I have found it to be the most suitable 11"mono that I have used on my 4500, out of a few I have tried, its quiet and gives a good target response, and even though I have a minelab 8" that I have found many many ozs of gold with, I still favour the 11" for general use, one of the main reasons being that I have retrieved so many pieces of gold from other peoples dig holes with it, of course that little extra size gives slightly more depth, but I believe it gives very similar sensitivity, and better ground coverage.

The 8' minelab mono is a excellent coil and one I would generally use now for working gullies and really rocky areas, especially around the base of a quartz blow for example as it is easy to manouver about amoungst the rocks so that you can get it closer to the ground, and very often I have picked up little pieces that are hiding under rocks as well, in trashy areas they are good as well because of the small surface area of the coil, targets are quickly pinpointed, and it does not pick up targets too far to the sides so isolating the target is a bit easier too.

I have found many patches using the 8" mono on hillsides and in areas of rocky ground using it than any other coil, with the gp extreme and the 3500, but on the 4500 I dont think it has the same punch as the 11" so I prefer to use it for the specified jobs.

I have not tried the nuggetfinder 12" advantage mono but suspect it would be an excellent coil on the 4500, whether it was better than the 11" I cant say for sure, but as I have a 14" eliptical mono too I dont know whether having a 12" coil would be of any advantage to me, if anyone has used one that can make some comparison between it and the 11" commander I would be interested to hear about it.

cheers

stayyerAU