stabiliser function?

Gday all. firstly all the best to the queenslanders in this time of need. just a terrible tragedy unfolding, thoughts are with you all.!!!!!!!
i am hoping to find out if i have stuffed up using the stabiliser on my 5000. on the last trip i went on here in the west i was able to set the gain at a high setting,15-17 but the stabiliser i set anywhere from 1-3, i had it set this low as it was keeping the detector running pretty bloody stable. i was getting plenty of small nuggets still and did find my biggest bit but wondering did i have stabiliser set too low and gain too high? cheers Jason

I have often got my stabilizer on 2, and have found gold from less than a gram to 60 grams using a range of coils, in a range of ground types here in NSW VIC & QLD on my 4500.

I find more befits by running a low stabilizer then i do any hindrances.
Some say the lead in and out of the signal is diminished, i find the only thing that diminishes is much of the ground noise and EMI, and i dig deep holes.

I agree Narrawa, as the stabilizer should not effect any overall performance as it is a stabilizer, a final tuning or adjustment to steady out the threshold.

Hi Guys,
A real eye opener here about this subject. Would be nice for JP to give us a rundown on this stabilizer issue. I've heard that if the stabilizer is set too low you will lose "depth" but not too sure...
uncle bob.

have more of a read here....
https://golddetecting.forumotion.net/t518-gpx4500-the-role-of-the-stabilizer?highlight=stabilizer

The signal to smaller shallower targets can be effected morose than deep targets, but if your using a big coil your not really looking for small shallow gold. However, i dont have any problems finding the small ones as the pic in the link on cameras shows. It was found with a 17x11 mono, and have found much gold like this in the past and will continue to do in the future.
https://golddetecting.forumotion.net/t3129-best-value-camera-for-taking-shots-of-gold-in-detail


One argument is the lead in and out of a target is effected by using low stabilizer, the other argument is the ground and EMI is heavily reduced making subtle targets more noticeable. The best way is to find a subtle target using your normal settings and play with different stabilizer settings.
I find the lower i go the higher the gain, my normal settings in regards would be stab 2 and gain 12.

Hi Guys, thanks for the info.
Narrawa, these settings you use is it on Fine Gold or Normal settings?
Thanks,
uncle bob.

The settings are for the 4500, the 5000 with its refined timings may have better filtering to EMI and able to handle noisier ground better then the 4500, this i dont know?

Ps, enhanced timings.

oh man i sent a lengthy reply, but its gone somewhere other than here. dammit

The Stabilizer is as I said before tied in with the threshold, higher numbers equals lower threshold floor allowing in more info including instability, lower numbers equals higher threshold floor equals less instability and reduced sensitivity to smaller gold targets. I don't agree with Narrawas methodology as it does destroy information on the lead in and lead out of deep targets but as he has said it works for him, so each to his own. I tend to run my Stabilizer around the 8 mark all the time regardless of coil size.

The 5000 will sound smoother overall due to changes in circuit design especially stability in threshold, therefore a higher number could be achieved, at the end of the day it comes down to what you train your ear for, living with the beast is the best way to get to know its foibles.

JP

PS I think I got things a bit muddled on the original post in the link, just to clarify, higher Stabilizer numbers equals more info/lower threshold floor, lower numbers equals less info/higher threshold floor (threshold floor is the digital signal response break through point).

JP, A feeling of Deja vu still i feel its a good subject with much that can be learned, myself included.

Jonathan Porter wrote:
JP

PS I think I got things a bit muddled on the original post in the link, just to clarify, higher Stabilizer numbers equals more info/lower threshold floor, lower numbers equals less info/higher threshold floor (threshold floor is the digital signal response break through point).

Exactly why i use a much higher gain/target volume when using low stabilizer numbers.
Also to note, my thresh is very low making my floor more susceptible to minor fluctuations.
higher numbers equals lower threshold floor allowing in more info including instability, lower numbers equals higher threshold floor equals less instability and reduced sensitivity to smaller gold targets.Using a coil of 14x9 and down lessons the effect of this because of the already high sensitivity to coils of these size's.

I believe in this methodology having dug 5 nuggets for .8grams using a 17x11" NF mono in one outing, and many more on other occasions more than proves it to me that im not missing much in the way of fly shite!, and constantly dig large holes for deep targets/gold. Whats working for me i have no doubt is working for many others as well.

I have learned a great deal from exactly what JP has posted above, and it would have to be the best description of how the stabilizer works that iv read. Its not the first time he's posted about its function and not the fist time iv questioned certain aspects of it, that how you learn.

The stabilizer is a really powerful tool, dont be scared of it.

thanks very much for the answers on this topic, much appreciated. Narrawa, it appears that i run my detector very similar to yours and have had a lot of success on small targets to date. the biggest bit i found which was a 25 grammer i think i found at a reasonable depth but i have dug deeper for smaller ones. but anyway ive been in the game for about 5min and will take the info on board and continue to learn. cheers guys

I often run my stabilizer between 5 and 8. I've experimented on undug tagets and can't find a great deal of difference apart from more stability at the lower number.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong (which I most likely am) but I imagine the feild being like a cone, pointy end down.
By increasing the stability (lower number) I am decreasing the width at the top of the cone, not shortening the length (depth) of the cone? is that correct?

If so, and I am not losing depth, it just means I have to be more exacting in my overlapping of each sweep so as not to miss smaller nuggets closer to the surface that may have been picked up futher out and more from the side of the coil

When passing on to others some of my learning's, i now refrain from showing them this.
Why? because it teaches laziness, most will opt for the smoother thresh strait off the bat, and not learn how to use the detector from an FP stand point. I find there is no point showing certain shortcuts, if they have little understanding of the multiple variables.

Tuna, By increasing the stability (lower number) I am decreasing the width at the top of the cone, not shortening the length (depth) of the cone? is that correct? in a sense yes, but morose as JP said above, lifting the floor of the threshold...meaning it takes more to alter the thresh. However, to use these settings in quiet ground or in times of little EMI, you maybe losing much needed info.
As you know i use these setting when detecting at Hill End because of the iron stone mix in the ground, and the fact that the area has both phone line and power line interference. But i dont always use enhance there either.

If so, and I am not losing depth, it just means I have to be more exacting in my overlapping of each sweep so as not to miss smaller nuggets closer to the surface that may have been picked up futher out and more from the side of the coilIf you grid or chain then yes, but if you do the wondering sheep thing, then theres no point. It go's for all mono's regardless of settings.

Narrawa wrote:When passing on to others some of my learning's, i now refrain from showing them this.
Why? because it teaches laziness, most will opt for the smoother thresh strait off the bat, and not learn how to use the detector from an FP stand point. I find there is no point showing certain shortcuts, if they have little understanding of the multiple variables.

Yes your right there Narrawa, they gotta walk before they can run. Iv'e seen you get good results with the low stabalizer numbers and higher gain settings, it works quite well but you have to understand what your doing and why your doing it to get results.

cheers dave

thanks...as I thought.
And yep, only use it when EMI, ground mineralization etc..don't allow for a lower stabilizer which can be quite often at HE on some patches.

Incidentally, I found a spot out there where normal timings often work when enhance mucks up, which baffles me

madtuna wrote:........ Incidentally, I found a spot out there where normal timings often work when enhance mucks up, which baffles me

If the ground has salt or is what is known as conductive then yes Normal timings will run quieter. If you have a 5000 try using the new Salt/Gold timings.

JP

Jonathan Porter wrote:I tend to run my Stabilizer around the 8 mark all the time regardless of coil size.

I'm the same on this one, very rarely move the Stabilizer from 8 and I run my gain between 14-16, mostly on 16 using various coils.

apologees to narrawa and davsgold if it came across if i was trying to run before i could walk.

Thanks JP...have played a bit with salt, even scored a couple with it..will play about with it some more

used to be newbie wrote:apologees to narrawa and davsgold if it came across if i was trying to run before i could walk.

Mate, no need for any apologies.
If your surging ahead with the learning curve, than you have absolutely no need to apologize.
Well done would be more in order.

The stabilizer is one of many tools on board your detector, there is no set order as to the learning of them.

used to be newbie wrote:apologees to narrawa and davsgold if it came across if i was trying to run before i could walk.

No apologies necessary mate, its all about getting the best out of the beast, keep experimenting and fine tuning for the area you detect.

Narrawa and I stll compare settings over the same target every now and then, still trying to get the most from the machine.

cheers dave

Interesting stuff Narrawa jp etc.
Before i get started ill say i ofen run my stabilizer at between 2-5 (or higher if i can) so its not that i disagree (nor do i have the experanice to say so anyway).
But stepping back and looking at the info to me by increasing your gain and target volume to off set any loss due to a lower stabilizer sounds like robbing peter to pay mary.
If you run a higher volume target setting along with a higher gain and have to lower the stabilizer would you be better of reducing the target volume then the gain and finally the stabilizer?.

To me the setup almost sounds Bogene settings for the 4000 except your using the stabilizer instead of the threshold volume (front end cap), yes i know its not quite the same but still......you are raising your threhold response so that only positive clear signals are noticed.

I have noticed as well reducing the stabilizer from factory nothing seems to happen till about the 3 mark, after 3 it has a very noticable effect of stability i even tried the 1 setting that was once only and never again not recommended.
As i said i run my stabilizer at between 2 and 5 so no agrument about having to low a stabilizer setting here just got me thinking.
Which brings me to the lead in and out something i never have really considered.
The lead in and lead out...................... is that the woo hoo response /span im assumming ???
With this using a low stabilizer setting any short/fine mellow responses could be missed if your not concentrating on your swing speed or infact have to high a motion speed selected would this be correct you feel????.
So if i had a lower stabilizer setting and i swung over a short faint signal at a slow speed it would be possiable to hear it, but if i swung over the same target at a higher speed i would miss it (or the detecting wouldnt have time to respond???).
But with a higher stabilzer setting would it be a more possitive and slightly longer response allowing some compensation for incorrect swing speed or height from grd would that be fair to say.
I am not saying anyones not right im just asking the question, because i may have to adjust my style of detecting as im not 100% sure im getting the best out of my 4500s.

I know you should experiment with targets found and sometimes do but in most cases i just dig and look.
But these sorta threads make you sit up and think, am i getting a 100% outa my detector am i possiably mising proberly quite obvious targets.
All interesting stuff fellas, as said you are always learning something new with these detectors.
Regards
John

Hi John, i'll answer what i can with my way of thinking, be it right or wrong, there is a lot more to the settings then just the stabilizer being set low.


But stepping back and looking at the info to me by increasing your gain and target volume to off set any loss due to a lower stabilizer sounds like robbing peter to pay mary. The small loss where talking in signal response by lowering the stab, would be wiped out if you lowered the gain to a similar figure.
Example, gain 8 stab 10 FP, now lower the stab to 5...is the signal still present with plenty of audio?
Example, gain 5 and stab 10, hows that signal sounding now?
Try it with a normal thresh, and again with a very low thresh.
I use FP with no alterations other then the tone as a guide on my 4500 for checking responses against the settings im using in general.
As for the target volume, on mine its always 20 flat out. Get to close to the speaker with coil when bending down retrieving a target and yes, you can expect some oscillation. As for the operation, why down the volume of your targets with the detector volume when most use a booster?? By having your target volume down and your booster up makes no sense to me?? Control the volume with the booster volume control.
If you run a higher volume target setting along with a higher gain and have to lower the stabilizer would you be better of reducing the target volume then the gain and finally the stabilizer?.Or you could just use FP. ,you are raising your threhold response so that only positive clear signals are noticed. My thresh is very low for this reason.

The lead in and lead out...................... is that the woo hoo response /span im assumming ???
With this using a low stabilizer setting any short/fine mellow responses could be missed if your not concentrating on your swing speed or infact have to high a motion speed selected would this be correct you feel????.Yes and no, concentration is the name of the game, a high motion speed will give a more sharper response if selected in the menu, but the higher you go the more instability you introduce.
I still got a woohoo when i dug the 3.2gramer out of xxxx's hole near the cemetery that time we were all up there. How come he missed it?
The woohoo lead in and out as you say by using a low stabilizer, has not stopped me from digging deep targets, i still get plenty of lead in and out witch is partly due to having a very low thresh.

I am not saying anyones not right im just asking the question, because i may have to adjust my style of detecting as im not 100% sure im getting the best out of my 4500s. I doubt that anyone really gets 100% out of their detector, the amount of variables on a day to day basis is staggering.

There is no set rules as to your settings, and there is no perfect settings. Having some understanding of what the veracious function do, and how to combine them is a big plus.

I only have this to say in this discussion,

General Search mode

Stabilizer (FP) setting 10
Motion (FP) setting Slow
Gain (FP) setting 10 (5000) 8 (4500)

There's a very good reason why they (Minelab) have FP beside those settings and based on the previous GP and SD models most everyone was happy that way.

Don't get me wrong, the GPX series represents the neuvo modernistic world we live in and more power to the people, but if you want to mess with Peter and Pauls robberies (thats a euphemistic joke BTW) then I suggest you pay heed to the tried and proved, because robbing Peter to Pay Paul can sometimes seem like pouring water from one cup to another but people sometimes forget about the interest accrued, after all, someone has to pay the ferry man, weather it is this side or that side.

JP

PS the above is said tongue in cheek based on the issues we face as a nation lately but I stand by my suggestions about settings.

There's a very good reason why they (Minelab) have FP beside those settings and based on the previous GP and SD models most everyone was happy that way. And aint it good to have something to fall back on after stuffing the settings up?? Another name for FP could be called...safe mode.

I must get around to sending my 4500 back to ML, it seems mine has dials and menu settings that allow me to alter the FP. Also said tongue in cheek.

euphemistic! ha i had to google what that meant lol

Narrawa wrote:There's a very good reason why they (Minelab) have FP beside those settings and based on the previous GP and SD models most everyone was happy that way. And aint it good to have something to fall back on after stuffing the settings up?? Another name for FP could be called...safe mode.

I must get around to sending my 4500 back to ML..........

Yawn...... (joke guys), I bought a brand new Nissan Patrol 4 x 4 ute a while back and blow me down I can shove the thing into reverse when spinning down the hi-way at 100K!!! So answer me this? Just because I can, does that mean I should?

Whatever stokes your fire is fine by me so long as you understand the possible ramifications and don't bleat its Minelab fault they made it possible to use a combination of settings that can impact on outright detector performance.

Narrawa wrote: ............I must get around to sending my 4500 back to ML, it seems mine has dials and menu settings that allow me to alter the FP. Also said tongue in cheek.

In other words with great FP adjusting power comes great responsibility, I recommend sensible moderation of your FP adjusting finger just incase you accidently bump it into reverse like I did!!!

Anyway "in moderation" is just my opinion and as we all know opinions are like backsides, we all have one, so "adjust" away Narrawa me old mate, Oh BTW when are you and I going out beeping, sounds like some of your fav spots might be worth a try (That too is a joke in case someone takes this banter seriously, as Narrawa said further up he and I have already been down this road and had a lot of fun with it! (although I am serious about the cautionary advice) )

JP

Excellent imput folks.
You missed some discussion on one important setting though.
When you are twisting knobs to alter gain, stabiliser, target volume and motion, where did you start your threshold?
If you start low i.e. faint background hum, medium or high what effect would it have on the above adjustments?

I believe something that also needs to be adressed and we don't talk about it much is the type and quality of our
headphones and speakers. Perhaps a new thread for this one.

As I type, the creek about 50 metres from my front door has cut the main road from Dunolly to Maryborough so if I
don't reply for a while I'll be moving stuff out.

Robert

Hi Goldnomad

heading to Dunolly this weekend. The creek you mentioned I presume is Burnt creek which is the way we get in from Maryborough. How bad is it? Can a 4WD cross it or is the road totally closed?
Hope it doesnt get any worse for you being so close but they have predicted more rain today