sssssssssssssssss

According to the preliminary results presented by Mills, the study found no indication of benefit on the use of ivermectin — nor with hydroxychloroquine or lopinavir-ritonavir, or metformin. The ivermectin arm had 1,500 patients: 677 of them received a daily dose of the medication, and 678 others were given a placebo, for three days.  
“We found that it had no effect whatsoever on our primary outcomes,” Mills said.
According to the results presented, 86 patients in the ivermectin group required extended emergency room observation or hospitalization versus 95 in the placebo group. Both the differences in relative risk and mortality relative risk between the two groups were not statistically significant. These results have not been peer-reviewed yet. 
“In our specific trial, outpatient, we do not see the treatment benefit that a lot of advocates believe should have been” seen, Mills said. 
As we said, two large clinical trials are being conducted in the U.S.
“As much as we want to think that the answer is already there … it doesn’t seem like the question is answered about whether or not ivermectin is better than placebo,” Dr. Carolyn Bramante, the principal researcher of the first randomized double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial studying ivermectin use for COVID-19 patients in the U.S., told us in a phone interview. 
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-ongoing-clinical-trials-will-decide-whether-or-not-ivermectin-is-safe-effective-for-covid-19/

https://dcricollab.dcri.duke.edu/sites/NIHKR/KR/GR-Slides-08-06-21.pdf

2. Commentary on Ivermectin Use in Uttar Pradesh, India
Multiple social media sources have also reported that ivermectin might have been responsible for reducing COVID-19 cases in Uttar Pradesh, India, with claims that the low rate of new cases in spite of low vaccination rates in this region is related to distribution of ivermectin-containing medication kits. There are several potential issues with these lines of reasoning, including:
• Both observational trial data and “real world” data sources need careful evaluation using these key principles of review: expert peer review of evidence, assessment of errors in reporting, assessment of due scientific diligence, and careful consideration of confounders. These principles have not been applied to this data.
• This observational data is much lower quality evidence compared with randomized trials (which also can vary in quality and require assessment). There is variability in assessment of infection rates and outcome reporting at a population level, as well as confounding.
• Multiple sources suggest the infection rate and death toll of COVID-19 in India in general, and Uttar Pradesh in particular, has been underestimated and current transmission is likely lower because of post infection immunity in survivors given prior waves of the pandemic o India’s death toll (and associated case counts) is estimated to be at least 7-13X higher than reported, suggesting actual population infection rates have been 60-70%, confirmed by seroprevalence data. Multiple resources indicate that cremations outstripped official death estimates considerably in this area.
o A preprint analysis of excess mortality for India related to COVID-19 (which found up to 2% of the population died up to June, 2021) had to omit data from Uttar Pradesh because of significant reporting irregularities (including districts that reported NO deaths for months)
o Public health seroprevalence data reported by the Center for Global Development suggested extreme underreporting of cases and deaths in Uttar Pradesh, and Indian Council of Medical Research data (reported by press release) showed 71% seroprevalence in Uttar Pradesh in spite of only 29% initial dose vaccinated in July.

It is also noted that many districts in India used ivermectin over a period in which the evidence was less clear, based on national guidelines, so regions cannot be compared based on use or non-use. Ivermection and hydroxychloroquine have recently been removed from the national COVID-19 guidelines in India for lack of efficacy.

In summary, this would suggest Uttar Pradesh had a devastating prior COVID-19 surge with high case rates and significant uncounted mortality, with current evidence of partial population immunity in people who survived COVID-19 infection and increasing numbers of vaccinated people.
https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/assets/info/ppih/if-ppih-covid-19-sag-ivermectin-in-treatment-and-prevention-rapid-review.pdf

Ivermectin and HCQ were dropped from the clinical guidance after studies found that these drugs have little to no effect on Covid-related mortality or clinical recovery of the patient.
The Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) and the National Task Force on Covid-19 have dropped the use of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) drugs from their revised guidelines for the treatment of the infection.
The decision was taken after experts found that these drugs have little to no effect on Covid-related mortality or clinical recovery of the patient
https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/why-hcq-ivermectin-dropped-india-covid-treatment-protocol-1857306-2021-09-26

davsgold wrote:So planetcare, it that is the case then how is it that India in that particular province with a population of 241 million people and a 5% jab rate has somehow managed to get covid way down ?????????????????

Because the data is completely unreliable as my earlier post show! Ivermectin is of no use in covid prophylaxis  or treatment!

davsgold wrote:

planetcare wrote:

davsgold wrote:So planetcare, it that is the case then how is it that India in that particular province with a population of 241 million people and a 5% jab rate has somehow managed to get covid way down ?????????????????

Because the data is completely unreliable as my earlier post show! Ivermectin is of no use in covid prophylaxis  or treatment!

Which part of the Data is unreliable, the number of people????? or the 5% jabbed in the number of people???? or the very low rate of covid infection?????? or the now very low death rate?????

Or are the people in India telling us lies?????

If it's not the treatment packs being used then it must be something else ????

Please  carefully read what i posted earlier! Also  ivermectin  has failed to be of any benefit in the gold standard  double blind randomized  placebo clinical protocol by Mills et al Also look at the last link in this post.
https://rethinkingclinicaltrials.org/news/august-6-2021-early-treatment-of-covid-19-with-repurposed-therapies-the-together-adaptive-platform-trial-edward-mills-phd-frcp/

In particular, a study published in JAMA found that ivermectin did not reduce the duration of symptoms in patients with mild cases of Covid-19. In the study, 400 patients with mild Covid-19 symptoms were either assigned to a five-day course of ivermectin or a placebo. The researchers found that on average, patients who received ivermectin had symptoms lasting 10 days compared to 12 days for patients who received the placebo—a difference that was not statistically significant.  
A separate study of 1,300 patients, which was presented at an NIH roundtable and has not yet been published, was halted on Aug. 6 by a data safety monitoring board after the drug was shown to be no better at preventing hospitalization or reducing ED stay duration than a placebo, the Times reports. According to Edward Mills, a professor at McMaster University who led the trial, the study found "no important clinical benefit" of ivermectin.
Although some large-scale studies have suggested ivermectin has significant benefits for Covid-19 patients, Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz, an epidemiologist at the University of Wollongong in Australia, said such studies are "probably fraudulent."
For example, at least two influential preprint studies that suggested ivermectin's benefits were later retracted after it was found that they contained flawed or manufactured data, NPR reports.
Separately, a recent meta-analysis of 14 ivermectin studies published in the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, which only included high-quality studies with sound methods and data, found that there is not enough rigorous evidence to suggest that ivermectin prevents Covid-19, improves patients' conditions, or reduces the risk of death.
"There is great interest in repurposing well-known inexpensive drugs such as ivermectin that are readily available as an oral tablet," Maria Popp and Stephanie Weibel, two of the meta-analysis' authors, said. "Even if these circumstances seem ideal, the results from the available clinical studies carried out so far cannot confirm the widely advertised benefits."
Separately, Shawn Varney, a toxicologist and medical director at the South Texas Poison Center, said, "Everyone wants some cure for Covid because it's such a devastating illness. I plead with people to stop using ivermectin and get the vaccine because it's the best protection we have at this point. Everything else is risk after risk." (Piper, Vox, 9/17; Goldberg, New York Times, 9/13; Huang, NPR, 9/19; Anthes, New York Times, 9/7)

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2021/09/21/ivermectin

Lets try to keep it civil here fellas.
From what I gather, via facts/figures across the known world, there is no 100% magic bullet for the complete protection from contracting covid-19.  The main things in way of prophylaxis for the prevention of covid-19 to be aware of are, through vaccination, the use of proper KN 95 surgical masks when indoors (not the current cheap surgical masks most of us wear offering less than 30% protection) & last but not least, social distancing.
The highest chances of contracting covid-19 no doubt would come from confined or indoor spaces offering little or no ventilation.
Although there are now various drugs/medication that can be administered upon testing positive to covid early (preventing the severe disease side of covid taking a good hold on its host), but not if one has been infected with covid-19 for over a week.
Now I understand the above might have little relevance to what you gents are debating over, but the way things stand at the moment, the only safe form of prophylaxis to covid-19, is to adhere to what the medical profession have said & that is by sticking to preventative measures set in place, always be aware of your surrounding's (especially that of enclosed confined spaces) & don't for one moment think you're safe/immune from covid-19 because you've ingested/taken this or that.
Till a bullet proof way is found for the prevention of covid-19 altogether, the safety measures laid down in place, preventing covid-19 from taking hold, are still currently the best medicine one can take.

Kon.  

adrian ss wrote:

planetcare wrote:According to the preliminary results presented by Mills, the study found no indication of benefit on the use of ivermectin — nor with hydroxychloroquine or lopinavir-ritonavir, or metformin. The ivermectin arm had 1,500 patients: 677 of them received a daily dose of the medication, and 678 others were given a placebo, for three days.  
“We found that it had no effect whatsoever on our primary outcomes,” Mills said.
According to the results presented, 86 patients in the ivermectin group required extended emergency room observation or hospitalization versus 95 in the placebo group. Both the differences in relative risk and mortality relative risk between the two groups were not statistically significant. These results have not been peer-reviewed yet. 
“In our specific trial, outpatient, we do not see the treatment benefit that a lot of advocates believe should have been” seen, Mills said. 
As we said, two large clinical trials are being conducted in the U.S.
“As much as we want to think that the answer is already there … it doesn’t seem like the question is answered about whether or not ivermectin is better than placebo,” Dr. Carolyn Bramante, the principal researcher of the first randomized double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial studying ivermectin use for COVID-19 patients in the U.S., told us in a phone interview. 
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-ongoing-clinical-trials-will-decide-whether-or-not-ivermectin-is-safe-effective-for-covid-19/

And so Prof;
Does that mean 591 of the Ivermectin group recovered and 583 of the Placebo group recovered without hopitalization?
While just 86 & 95 respectively required hospitalization ?

Those who cured themselves (The placebo group) due to the belief that they had received a cure vaccination, thus causing the body to protect itself must have a superior immune system, while those who responded well to the true vaccination may likely have responded equally well if they had been given the placebo. Guess we will never know? ....Belief is an immensely strong attribute

From the slide presentation. I guess those that were not hospitalized  recovered. But the key point is that placebo was as good or better than ivermectin!!!
FINDINGS
10 Clinical sites, Minas Gerais, Brazil
A composite of emergency room visits due to clinical worsening of COVID-19  (requiring observation for > 6 hours) or hospitalization due to the progression of COVID-19 within 28 days of randomization.
The proportion of patients with extended ER observation or hospitalization was the 86/677 for the IVM group and 95/678 in the placebo group. Relative risk: 0.91 (0.69-1.19). Mortality relative risk: 0.82 (0.44-1.52)

It is all about insurance. Some people will cover their house others won't because they have not got the money to spare or that they think they are getting ripped off.
Covid 19 vac is free and has a high reduction in reducing the effects of covid 19.
The majority against it, seem to put a high support for non proven treatments and all of the possible side effects.
6½ billion people have had it now. That is far more convincing than a few thousand double blind test. If problem turn up in the future with side effects there will be a huge incentive for those greedy pharmacy manufactures to find a solution for it.
So what is the best path go, with the 6½ million people that have had jab, or wait for a new drug with some small amount of test done on it. Then of course there is the EMU method and stick your head in the sand. By the way over 4½ million deaths for Covid to date.

davsgold wrote:

.  You also quote over 4½ million deaths for Covid to date, well shock horror, most have been form the normal yearly Flu, which for how many years world wide also killed about the same amount, but all of a sudden there and not many Flu deaths and all attributed to Covid
 

Annual flu deaths globally are estimated at 250,000 to 650,000 deaths  by the WHO. The Covid deaths  are based on people that have tested positive to covid with  a PCR test which only gives a positive result to covid  and nothing else!! Most epidemiologists accept that  the  global covid death toll is at least double the official figure! Because of lockdowns and other measures  implemented  during the pandemic the flu death toll  is much lower for example in Australia.
https://www.who.int/news/item/13-12-2017-up-to-650-000-people-die-of-respiratory-diseases-linked-to-seasonal-flu-each-year
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815659/
Ps  Vaccination for pollies in Vic is now mandatory and some other states and territories may well follow.

Dave not sure where you're getting the figures on India but the official numbers are:
"Among Indian states, the top 5 in terms of number of vaccine shots administered are Uttar Pradesh (100,560,628), Maharashtra (78,994,019), Madhya Pradesh (60,816,762), Gujarat (60,656,585), and Rajasthan (58,385,685)." Up to 21/09/21.
India has administered over 970 million vaccines as at 18/10/21. The highest number of vaccines administered in any country worldwide. They also have one of the highest daily rates of vaccination. Considering the overall population they are doing pretty good.
Uttar Pradesh is over 60% first dose & over 11% 2nd dose. 2nd dose rate is equivalent to the entire Australian population - not a bad effort really. The logistics of vaccinating a population that large would be very daunting.
Uttar Pradesh also appears to be under investigation from a few sources, including from within India's own Government, for concealing Covid related deaths i.e. under reporting them. They have hundreds of thousands of unexplained deaths over the normal yearly average - they are also battling a dengue fever outbreak too so a portion may be due to that?
https://article-14.com/post/untitled-60cf605395758