Digging up relics - Some advice needed

Gidday;

Our family property was the epicentre of a rather large township, 800 plus people once called it home, back in the 1850's (and possibly earlier). One of the few paddocks that has not being ploughed heavily multiple times also happens to be the site of the towns pub (complete with cellar). There is one part of the foundations still visible, although I am not sure which part of the building this relates to, as there are no records, plans, photos or drawings of the pub in existence.

My questions are:

1. What would be the best method to effectively recover as many relics/items as possible?
   
2. How deep should I look (with the exception of the cellar)?
   
3. What coins or other currency could I expect to find?
   

Excavation is out of the question so it is a pick n shovel job for now. Any ideas and suggestions would be great.

G'day Cranky Emu

Just make sure the private property in question isn't listed as a government heritage listing site, before you go searching for or digging up any ancient artefact, relic or coin/treasure etc
There are laws pertaining to such properties & or excavation finds that can be found on "Heritage Victoria"
Now apart from all the above info which is strictly introduced in favour of the government & not the individual owner/taxpayer, if you're right to go, then the next best thing would be to get your hands on a good discriminating coin/relic detector, such that of a Minelab CTX3030 or Equinox 800 & go for your life.  
Old bottles, artefacts/relics, old coins, as well as the odd bit of jewellery, is what can be found in & around such sites.

Kon

Not an answer to your specific questions however, if you are looking to research the old township, you will/should be able to find further info on  https://trove.nla.gov.au and with a bit of luck, you may also come across a map of the township to make detecting easier.
I believe Victoria's library also has a historical search function online.... found it www.slv.vic.gov.au

How have you determined there are no records in existence?

Good luck.

Initially, I'd recommend a VLF machine as you can filter out different metal types. If using a Pulse Induction detector, you will get better depth but will be overwhelmed by the rusty iron and other junk targets.
To answer your question on depth, using a VLF machine such as the Equinox 800 or CTX3030, depth will generally be approximately equal to the diameter of the coil. The larger the coil, the greater the depth however target separation gets worse.
Coins could range from early English and american coins through to ancient Chinese coins. You also run the chance of finding gold sovereigns.

Kon61gold wrote:G'day Cranky Emu

Just make sure the private property in question isn't listed as a government heritage listing site, before you go searching for or digging up any ancient artefact, relic or coin/treasure etc Kon

We own the property, there is no hysterical listing as far as I am aware. The only thing (still standing) from the old town is the school, I believe that has some preservation layers associated with it. Interestingly, is is only spec of it's former size, it was on a 2 acre lot, now I am guessing it is around 1/4 to 1/2 acre in total size.

bicter wrote:you may also come across a map of the township to make detecting easier. .... found it www.slv.vic.gov.au

Already got maps from those sources and some other maps from various place. None actually show the locations of any of the towns prominent buildings: Pub, Bottle Shop (both on our property), Post Office, Creamery. I have one map with hand drawn arrows, that appear to line up with where these once sat, although it is not entirely accurate.

bicter wrote:Initially, I'd recommend a VLF machine as you can filter out different metal types. If using a Pulse Induction detector, you will get better depth but will be overwhelmed by the rusty iron and other junk targets.
To answer your question on depth, using a VLF machine such as the Equinox 800 or CTX3030, depth will generally be approximately equal to the diameter of the coil. The larger the coil, the greater the depth however target separation gets worse.
Coins could range from early English and american coins through to ancient Chinese coins. You also run the chance of finding gold sovereigns.

Thanks for the reply. I have a Nokta AU. I did do a quick detect and uncovered: Half a pair of wool shears, Wire dog chain, Copper rivet, Buckle (looks to be off a saddle), a handle from something, and a few other bits I have no idea what they are. These were found between 3 inches and 1.5 foot in depth. As I don't know the layout of the pub, it is a bit hard to work out where the best area is to start. There may well have been stables etc attached to it.

Good luck cranky,hope you find some coins
post some pics


cheers moredeep

The pub, church and school are usually near the centre of town. The schools have more coins lost but of lower original value, the church has higher value coins pubs are a good source of high value coins. Look for a Race Track in the district half and full sovereigns are usually found at those locations. One bit of advice when in a populated area buried cache could be around so do not discriminate out larger signals as they could be a tin of coins (maybe gold & silver). Best of luck but remember there are some rules on lost/found articles before they are yours.

geof_junk wrote:The pub, church and school are usually near the centre of town.

Yes, our whole property sits on the old town site and the parish reserve.

geof_junk wrote:The schools have more coins lost but of lower original value, the church has higher value coins pubs are a good source of high value coins.

There was a church, but it was a much more recent attribution. Not sure of it's timeline, but I am going to take a guess at less than 100 years old. I can actually remember the building, used to muck around in it as kids. It was far from anything old style in nature. I believe it was a relatively new addition and was not part of the original 1850's village.

geof_junk wrote:Look for a Race Track in the district half and full sovereigns are usually found at those locations.

There was never any established race track here, there was a training track of sorts, it is on a neighbours property and I would doubt very much if they would let me prospect it. Also, the actual location of the track is a bit of an unknown apart from a 'it was in that area' kind of recollection.

geof_junk wrote:One bit of advice when in a populated area buried cache could be around so do not discriminate out larger signals as they could be a tin of coins (maybe gold & silver).

I have dug every signal I hit on during the first run. Chances of gold here are very remote, so I will be relics or tools etc mostly.

geof_junk wrote:Best of luck but remember there are some rules on lost/found articles before they are yours.

Enlighten me on this. Another person mentioned on another forum that anything over 50 years old is protected and has to be left in place. Aside from coins, how could you reasonably determine the age of an implement? I was under the impression that the landholder had rights to a depth of one meter, and anything under that was state domain - I read this on some gov website I was looking at (can't remember which).

The way I see it is that a relic out of the ground and on my mantelpiece is a better relic than one left in the ground to rot away and be lost forever.
Off course I would not recommend removing a stamper battery or puddler ...although they would look cool in the back yard.

A copy of Prospecting Australia Post by Mbasko back in 2016 hope this helps.

AtomRat wrote:
Anything found within a historic area or crown area is by the laws, still owned by the crown. The heritage laws are old and outdated. They are probably more about when blokes went and removed full machinery and cottages for their farms when the laws kicked in. Now everything is rusting into the ground and deteriorating and imo needs to be saved. Make sure your a member of a historical society, that way you have a reason for it, and a place to put items on display or back into the books. When its on private, and you have permission, it should be yours too.

There was a review of the Victorian heritage laws calling for public submissions last year. Would have been a good time to have your say on what should be in the new version & what shouldn't. Submissions, reports etc. here:
http://www.dtpli.vic.gov.au/heritage/ab … eview-2015
As it stands in Victoria being on private land changes nothing. Under the current law an archaeological relic is:
archaeological relic means—
(a) any archaeological deposit; or
(b) any artifact, remains or material evidence associated with an archaeological deposit—
which—
(c) relates to the non-Aboriginal settlement or visitation of the area or any part of the area which now comprises Victoria; and.
(d) is 50 or more years old—
but does not include the remains of a ship or an article associated with a ship;

VICTORIAN HERITAGE ACT 1995 - SECT 127
Offence to damage or disturb unregistered relics and unregistered archaeological sites

S. 127(1) amended by No. 74/2003 s. 5(5)(a)(b).
(1) A person must not knowingly or negligently deface or damage or otherwise interfere with an archaeological relic or carry out an act likely to endanger an archaeological relic except in accordance with a consent issued under section 129.
Penalty: In the case of a natural person: 600 penalty units or imprisonment for 12 months or both.
In the case of a body corporate: 1200 penalty units.

S. 127(2) amended by No. 74/2003 s. 5(5)(a)(b).
(2) A person must not knowingly uncover or expose an archaeological relic or disturb or excavate any land for the purpose of uncovering or discovering an archaeological relic except in accordance with a consent issued under section 129.
Penalty: In the case of a natural person: 600 penalty units or imprisonment for 12 months or both.
In the case of a body corporate: 1200 penalty units.

(3) A person is not guilty of an offence under this section if he or she picks up or collects an archaeological relic exposed in or on the surface of land in Victoria.

(4) This section does not apply to an archaeological relic which is a registered object.

HERITAGE ACT 1995 - SECT 128
Safeguarding of relics

A person who knowingly picks up or collects an archaeological relic in Victoria or who knowingly brings into Victoria or receives in Victoria an archaeological relic must—

(a) safeguard it from loss or damage; and
(b) immediately give notice in writing to the Executive Director describing the relic and stating where it was found or where it came from; and
(c) if required by the Executive Director, make the relic available for identification or conservation.
Penalty: In the case of a natural person: 120 penalty units.
In the case of a body corporate: 240 penalty units.

Being a member of a historical society doesn't automatically give rights to recover or collect relics under the current Victorian legislation. The Executive Director may issue consents to individuals or other bodies under Section 129.

These are the main areas of law you need to be aware of in Victoria. Other states have similar legislation.
How you personally follow or interpret them is your decision.

Bugger! I better hide that stamper Aye!!

geof_junk wrote:A copy of Prospecting Australia Post by Mbasko back in 2016 hope this helps.

Bit of a minefield so to speak.

There is the Heritage Act 2017, and this is what it says in respect to archaeological relics:

Archaeological artefact means an object (other than a shipwreck artefact) which provides information of past activity in the State and—
(a) is associated with an archaeological site; or
(b) is associated with a registered archaeological place; or
(c) is associated with an approved site of archaeological value; or
(d) is associated with a place that was an archaeological site, registered archaeological place or approved site of archaeological value;

Archaeological site means a place (other than a shipwreck) which—
(a) contains an artefact, deposit or feature which is 75 or more years old; and
(b) provides information of past activity in the State; and
(c) requires archaeological methods to reveal information about the settlement, development or use of the place; and
(d) is not associated only with Aboriginal occupation of the place;

All the above probably apply, or could apply. That said, when they upgraded the road here (made it significantly wider), some of the foundation was merely ripped out and disposed off. I am reasonably sure shires and VicRoads don't have carte blanche to 'tear and bear' as they please and probably have tighter guidelines relating to this. Problem with talking to Government agencies is getting a concrete answer, or at least a correct concrete answer, as the general rule in government agencies in my experience is if you do not know the answer, say no!

The term 'artefact' is pretty wide ranging.
All this aside, as Adrian suggested, it seems to be a bit of a waste to leave (let's say coins and tools for example) them in the ground to decay and rot where no one will ever see them or even know they exist. I can't get my head around that mentality. Obviously there are sites that for various reasons you simply do not dig up, but this is not applicable in this case, nor in the case of many 'coin prospectors' throughout the country.

Quote
"Archaeological site means a place (other than a shipwreck) which—
(a) contains an artefact, deposit or feature which is 75 or more years old; and..........."

Does that mean some us members could be classified as ARTEFACTS  

not there yet

adrian ss wrote:Bugger! I better hide that stamper Aye!!

Hi Adrian Looks like i can have the ship i found in the bush, but i cannot get the b**tard out of the ground LOL