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Post  Nightjar on Fri May 08, 2020 11:13 am

Originator unknown, and we are complaining!
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It’s a mess out there now. Hard to discern between what’s a real threat and what is just simple panic and hysteria. For a small amount of perspective at this moment, imagine you were born in 1900.
On your 14th birthday, World War I starts, and ends on your 18th birthday. 22 million people perish in that war. Later in the year, a Spanish Flu epidemic hits the planet and runs until your 20th birthday. 50 million people die from it in those two years. Yes, 50 million.
On your 29th birthday, the Great Depression begins. Unemployment hits 25%, the World GDP drops 27%. That runs until you are 33. The country nearly collapses along with the world economy.
When you turn 39, World War II starts. You aren’t even over the hill yet. Between your 39th and 45th birthday, 75 million people perish in the war.
Smallpox was epidemic until you were in your 40’s, and it killed 300 million people during your lifetime.
At 50, the Korean War starts. 5 million perish. From your birth, until you are 55 you dealt with the fear of Polio epidemics each summer. You experience friends and family contracting polio and being paralyzed and/or die.
At 55 the Vietnam War begins and doesn’t end for 20 years. 4 million people perish in that conflict. During the Cold War, you lived each day with the fear of nuclear annihilation. On your 62nd birthday, you have the Cuban Missile Crisis, a tipping point in the Cold War. Life on our planet, as we know it, almost ended. When you turn 75, the Vietnam War finally ends.
Think of everyone on the planet born in 1900. How did they endure all of that? When you were a kid in 1985 and didn’t think your 85-year-old grandparent understood how hard school was. And how mean that kid in your class was. Yet they survived through everything listed above. Perspective is an amazing art. Refined and enlightening as time goes on. Let’s try and keep things in perspective. Your parents and/or grandparents were called to endure all of the above – you are called to stay home and sit on your couch.
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Post  davsgold on Fri May 08, 2020 11:24 am

T04
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Post  freshwater on Fri May 08, 2020 12:43 pm

Q33
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Post  moredeep on Fri May 08, 2020 2:38 pm

It certainly makes you realize what a comfy life style we have had.
Post ww2 [ apart from rationing post war] has been fairly cruisey for most,I'm mainly talking western civilizations here.
 I guess that's the whole idea of our species is to improve on living conditions so that each generation has it a little better than the ones before,[that's the theory any way]
 Nearly every thing has it's cycles,once rich empires are now poor and vice versa.

cheers  toodeep Laughing
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Post  mogy on Fri May 08, 2020 5:22 pm

Thanks so much for that Nightjar , theres  a few politicians around that could  reflect on these figures .

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Post  adrian ss on Fri May 08, 2020 5:38 pm

Here is a bit of perspective.

There have been 6,896 cases of corona virus in Australia since Jan 22 2020.
That means that if you download the safety APP you have a one chance in 3,480 of encountering somebody who has had this virus. How long do you think it will take for you to encounter 3,480 people during your normal daily life?.... A bloody long time that's how long. So the likely-hood of this app actually registering somebody with the virus or having had the virus and who you have been in contact with and who has downloaded the APP and their phone is switched on is SFA...Therefore this app is pointless.,.. unless there is of course another motive for the app involved.


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Post  Nightjar on Fri May 08, 2020 6:55 pm

If there is doubt in anyone's mind, you can be assured when this virus has run its course the media will focus on, guess what?
Killings, mass murders, wars around the world etc etc.
**Had a senior moment, that is what is displayed every night and day on media outlets 24/7 365 days/year.**

Media is just another form of pandemic, strike fear and panic around the world and the media moguls will be sitting behind there locked doors counting their V18  ….while we mere mortals cringe in our homes.Q41


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Post  davsgold on Fri May 08, 2020 7:23 pm

adrian ss wrote:Here is a bit of perspective.

There have been 6,896 cases of corona virus in Australia since Jan 22 2020.
That means that if you download the safety APP you have a one chance in 3,480 of encountering somebody who has had this virus. How long do you think it will take for you to encounter 3,480 people during your normal daily life?.... A bloody long time that's how long. So the likely-hood of this app actually registering somebody with the virus or having had the virus and who you have been in contact with is SFA...Therefore this app is pointless.,.. unless there is of course another motive for the app involved.

Even less Adrian as there are only 738 active cases in the whole of Aussie, which are in Hospital and your not going to encounter them in your normal going to the shops etc and there was an increase of 18 new cases in the whole of Aussie in the last 24 hours, and these were mostly in the Anglicare facility in Sydney somewhere, and in the meatworks facility in VIC, and I think one new case in WA.

So coming in contact with the virus is extremely remote unless you deliberately try to come in contact, we can see by the reaction time of the Anglicare facility and the meatworks and the Ruby Princess that the delays were significant for anything to be done.

Will the miracle APP help speed up anything, well they say it will but on past performance...........time will tell
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Post  adrian ss on Fri May 08, 2020 7:38 pm

It will not speed anything up because there will be zero hits other than within the confines of cluster zones.
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Post  Redfin on Sat May 09, 2020 9:52 am

davsgold wrote:
adrian ss wrote:Here is a bit of perspective.

There have been 6,896 cases of corona virus in Australia since Jan 22 2020.
That means that if you download the safety APP you have a one chance in 3,480 of encountering somebody who has had this virus. How long do you think it will take for you to encounter 3,480 people during your normal daily life?.... A bloody long time that's how long. So the likely-hood of this app actually registering somebody with the virus or having had the virus and who you have been in contact with is SFA...Therefore this app is pointless.,.. unless there is of course another motive for the app involved.

Even less Adrian as there are only 738 active cases in the whole of Aussie, which are in Hospital and your not going to encounter them in your normal going to the shops etc and there was an increase of 18 new cases in the whole of Aussie in the last 24 hours, and these were mostly in the Anglicare facility in Sydney somewhere, and in the meatworks facility in VIC, and I think one new case in WA.

So coming in contact with the virus is extremely remote unless you deliberately try to come in contact, we can see by the reaction time of the Anglicare facility and the meatworks and the Ruby Princess that the delays were significant for anything to be done.

Will the miracle APP help speed up anything, well they say it will but on past performance...........time will tell

Dear Oh Dear, after all the discussions, explanations, publicity you still don't "get it"
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Post  Wombat on Sat May 09, 2020 10:29 am


My Dad was born in 1910 and saw most things that Redfin mentioned. He fought in WW2 and had a lot to do with training of soldiers going of the Korea. He saw most disasters of the world conflicts, Natural, and Man made. But he also saw 2 passing of Halley's Comet in 1910 and again in 1986. He saw the development of air flight, Television (Black & White and Coloured), Space exploration and Moon Landings, Portable phones and Microwave cooking. The age of computers. He saw the end of an old Century and a beginning of a new one. But the most important thing in his life was watching us kids grow up in what he called a New World. The old, induard a lot and saw a lot. They saw hardships. But also miracles at the light of very tunnel. They saw laughter and felt sadness. Things that we now take for granted. How will our children look back on us in a 100 years. Will they say we induard a lot over our live time. History will only tell. Dad passed away in 2003 aged 93.
wombat Wink

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Post  boobook on Sat May 09, 2020 11:50 am

This all a bit left field, but we are advised that a 1.5 metre separation between people is adequate to prevent the spread of the virus from one person to another.
I am assuming that the spread in this manner would be by exhaled breath containing the virus which is then ingested by the person within 1.5 metres.

In the 1960's, my Grandfather came out from England to live with us. We were a household of non smokers, Grandpa an inveterate pipe smoker. I didn't seem to matter which room of the house, within 5 minutes of Grandpa lighting up his pipe the scent of that tobacco had permeated the place. This did not come from his pipe bowl, it was what he breathed out into the atmosphere.

It stands to reason that almost anywhere in the house, we were breathing in air, contaminated with pipe smoke that he had exhaled.
I have to wonder just how valid that "safe" 1.5 metre separation distance is, with the covid viral's life in the atmosphere of some hours, combined with the potential circulation distance of exhaled breath.

Maybe it should be face masks at "50 paces" or not bother at all.
Just something else I wonder about Question




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Post  adrian ss on Sat May 09, 2020 1:59 pm

1.5 mtr is fine if you are standing still but if you are walking or jogging etc then the time between yourself and the virus carrier in front of you may be only a second at best so you will move straight into the virus cloud while it is still fluffing about at face level . If you are out jogging to keep fit then you would need to be at least 20 seconds behind joggers in front of you in order to avoid any virus that may be still floating about.
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Post  alchemist on Sat May 09, 2020 2:30 pm

There's no point trying to avoid it boobook unless you are really crook with old age health problems, because according to Pof.Johan Giesecke, we are all going to get it eventually anyway.

In my case the lockdown has worsened my health, I'm now having to take heaps more blood pressure meds due to stress and loss of work routine where I was very active all day, I'm now more susceptible.

A friends wife, who was very healthy before the lockdown has developed a bad case of shingles from the stress, and is now more susceptible to corona than before lockdown.

The side effects of the medicine are worse than the disease.

With the evaluation of scoundrel Neil Ferguson's Imperial model, the hacked one he threw away as he resigned from his post, the model that inspired the lockdown policy in over 100 countries, and will leave economic scars for decades to come; it has been described by software engineers who have dissected it, as "preposterous" "flawed" "amateurish" "useless" and effectively a random number generator.

We have really been had. Eisenhower and Kennedy warned the world of the dangers of the military industrial complex and more importantly in this juncture, academics gaining control of public policy.

This is Prof. Giesecke, well worth contemplating what he says if you've not seen it before.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H2TEOnOnHVM&list=PL2OFHLSeLxlboabCJYI4jRPoGbZdYy1tv&index=15&t=0s
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Post  Nightjar on Sat May 09, 2020 6:47 pm

Alchemist, Sympathise with your predicament, I read what you say, however why so much panic/stress in your life? Is it because you listen/view all the media hype designed to incite just that?
See it first hand here with our infrequent trip to store to buy supplies. Those with a look of terror in their eyes, face mask, gloves and turn to face shelves as you approach them in the aisles.
They are the ones who will have after effects for months, maybe years to come.
Mentioned it before, this comment by a 97yo a couple of weeks back is fixed in my brain, totally agree that we all go on wanting to live forever.
However:
Quote: "We are all born to die!"









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Post  PeterInSa on Sat May 09, 2020 7:47 pm

alchemist, sorry to hear about your friend's wife re shingles, its to late now for her, but maybe for your friend and others, there is a Vax for Shingles, and from memory if you are over 70 its free on Medicare, at least it is in SA.

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Post  alchemist on Sat May 09, 2020 8:17 pm

Gid'day Nightjar, I enjoyed reading your perspective.
I'm a highly strung creature by nature, I would love to live in the bush but I'm shackled to a mortgage, hence the extra stress. Three or four weeks ago I dumped the TV we got sick of the ministry of silly walks, and as soon as "an official covid announcement" comes on the radio, I pull the plug, it reminds me of the brainwashing tapes they play in some of the Indonesian factories. I visited one on business a few years back. They continually repeated over and over on the factory sound system " you must work faster, faster, faster " " we have orders to meet" " we must work faster, faster, faster" ad nauseum in a monotonous inflectionless voice.
I feel the same feelings with the main stream media, it's repitious mind conditioning.

Loss of job was my main concern, I may keep it if the company doesn't go belly up.

I recently watched a series on Ontario TV via Kodi on a raspberry pi. It was about the first world war, and consisted of hours and hours of film shot from about 1910 through 1920 The diggers really went through hell, and a few pommy generals used the ANZACs and Canadians as canon fodder, it was disgusting, if you didn't go over the top you were often shot for insubordination. We are so soft these days, scared of germs and dirt and our own shaddow. It is strange to think many people are being diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder from the lockdown over here, what would a few years in the mud, with rats, flies, rotting corpses all around and continual blasts and gunfire do to a man's soul, no wonder the booze finished so many of them off.
The worst of this is yet to come but there's one bright spot, we are skilled at getting gold. A number of experts predict that in 18 to 24 months we could see $5,000 to 10,000 US troy oz and if they go back to a gold standard again $50,000 to 100,000 per oz.
Sounds unbelievable I know but the reality is the US $ is now effectively counterfeit. If fiat is dumped, gold will skyrocket, and also will the value of our machines they will be worth a mint, remember the African rush.

I think for me too anger built up stress, people forbidden to sit on the beach in the sunshine, boosting vitamin D and breathing negative ions, which is so good for health and spirit, we need that to fight disease, sitting around at home for weeks on end is not promoting health.

Sorry I've waffled to much.
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Post  alchemist on Sat May 09, 2020 8:26 pm

PeterInSa wrote:alchemist, sorry to hear about your friend's wife re shingles, its to late now for her, but maybe for your friend and others, there is a Vax for Shingles, and from memory if you are over 70 its free on Medicare, at least it is in SA.

Peter

Thanks Peter I'll keep that in mind, I hadn't thought of that.
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Post  Kon61gold on Sat May 09, 2020 8:51 pm

Quote; "We are all born to die"  Yes, we are all born to die, some time, but if one had the option of being saved, then who would want to die before their time?
To every beginning an end & to every end a new beginning, but we can go on quoting like this forever.
The things happening to us/everybody today, are happening during our time & (with no disrespect to our past generations), if we don't have to go through the sufferings of what our parents/grandparents/great grandparents did during their lifetime etc, then why should we?
I'm glad that I live in a world with a lot more options today, than what past generations had to endure, or there'd be very few reaching the ripe old age of 90+.
Like were said from the beginning, you are not alone on this one alchemist. All of us (whether in physical or mental form) are suffering to some degree/extent here, but we must be vigilant, we must prevail, in order to get through this.

Cheers T25
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Post  moredeep on Sat May 09, 2020 8:56 pm

Alchemist waffling is good hang in there mate Q39


cheers    moredeep
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Post  Nightjar on Sat May 09, 2020 10:03 pm

Kon61gold wrote:Quote; "We are all born to die"  
I'm glad that I live in a world with a lot more options today, than what past generations had to endure, or there'd be very few reaching the ripe old age of 90+.

Cheers T25
Kon, If you study closely, today we have far less chance of reaching, as you mention the ripe old age of 90+!
Yes, medical wise, heart, lung, transplants etc etc.
In reality you have far less options today, think about, if you listen and watch the media you will soon know why.
Not a night goes by and Ch7 are not bleating about, drugs, rapes murders and so on.
You are probably too young to remember, our parents didn't lock the house, left the keys in their cars.
We could go to the pub and get into a fight, but it was one on one, whoever went down first usually got helped up by the fella that put you down.
Today you either get a kick in the guts by the gutless P***ks standing by or at the worst a glass in the face or a knife in the guts.
Morons full of meths in every suburb and you say you are glad you live in this generation?
Both my grandfathers endured the "past generation" came home from the wars with shrapnel in their bodies till the day they died just shy of the "90" you mention.
They chain smoked, only drank on special occasions, never talked about the horrors of war but by heavens they taught us the meaning of life without a sign of regret.
Could ramble on forever, but one of my fondest memories was my Pop making me a rod out of a thin branch at the Bowes River, WA. A piece of fishing twine, a hook and I caught my first fish, a bream. Have an old black & white photo here somewhere, me proud of punch.



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Post  Kon61gold on Sat May 09, 2020 11:04 pm

Yes Pete & sad to think that some youth/adults of today, choose to live the dark side of life, instead of an honest days work, for an honest days pay, but they are the few & not the many.
It is through modern medical science that says the generations or people of today's times, are living much longer than past generations, not I, for I believe if we were to take away all current medicine's from people dependant on such, life as we know it, might be as you say, much shorter.
Unfortunately I don't go back that far Pete, but not to say that as a 7 year old, didn't experience the horse & cart delivery of milk bottles, by where one would leave their money order out front, together with their empty milk bottles & no one would touch it.
Truly what you say, respect for one another those days, thrived in abundance, where one would get into a fist fight one day & shout beers at the local pub the next.
Today it is not the one person you have to fear when out & about, but the hidden few others, that join in a fight that's not theirs or continue to kick a man when he's down & out.  
Our parents back then taught us respect in the manner they best knew how, making sure it stuck in us. Shame that I cannot say the same for many a person today.  

Cheers Kon. T25
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Post  alchemist on Sun May 10, 2020 5:44 am

On the other side of the coin, in those countries without euthanasia options, for many this virus was no doubt a welcome angel of freedom, a release from crippling disease and a slow and lingering death. Because the majority of deaths and serious injury occurred among those who were living with numerous health eroding diseases.

Of course some health care workers who ingested heavy viral loads did succumb, even a really healthy body has its limits, and that is why these people deserve the highest respect for their selflessness.

But in general for healthy persons what doesn't kill or maim us, makes us stronger, but if we hide from it, we grow weaker.

There is another aspect to this and I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, and that is incorrect protocols being used. It has become clear that a ventilator is the wrong response when respiratory distress occurs. In New York 9 out of 10 persons on ventilators died, because the problem is a cyanosis like apoxia, and in hospitals where patients were treated for apoxia, very few died. So in many countries the ventilators were finishing them off, delivering the final coup de grace.

Once again little heed was given to those at the coal face dealing first hand with the problem. Policy and protocol was dictated by pen pushing, drug pushing academics far more accustomed to diagnosing their bank balance than actual patients.

I really hope this leads to a revolution, one that really rewards people for their honesty and integrity far more than deceit and corruption can ever hope to.
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Post  adrian ss on Sun May 10, 2020 8:37 am

alchemist wrote:
PeterInSa wrote:alchemist, sorry to hear about your friend's wife re shingles, its to late now for her, but maybe for your friend and others, there is a Vax for Shingles, and from memory if you are over 70 its free on Medicare, at least it is in SA.

Peter

Thanks Peter I'll keep that in mind, I hadn't thought of that.


If you are a nervy type then get a shingles shot.
I had shingles and the pain is/can be extraordinary. It lasted 12 months. I did not know about the vax and then when I got it they gave me the wrong vax pale Finally got the right one. I would not wish the shingles on my worst enemy.
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Post  Nightjar on Sun May 10, 2020 10:44 am

alchemist wrote: academics far more accustomed to diagnosing their bank balance.

Mean while we will get a levy placed on our drivers licence, rates and taxes etc, no pay increases or bonuses to reduce the world debts.
Meanwhile;
Do you think for one minute the likes of these will be effected, no, they will reap more rewards when they gouge those who are the only ones who can get their businesses back in the black.

https://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paid-bank-bosses-2017-7?r=AU&IR=T#11-tidjane-thiam-credit-suisse-99-million-76-million-6




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Post  planetcare on Sun May 10, 2020 11:26 am

[quote="alchemist"
This is Prof. Giesecke, well worth contemplating what he says if you've not seen it before.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H2TEOnOnHVM&list=PL2OFHLSeLxlboabCJYI4jRPoGbZdYy1tv&index=15&t=0s[/quote]

Look at the results of his policies that have been followed in Sweden with a population less than ½ that of Australia
Number of infections :25,921
deaths :3,220
Average new cases per day about 700
If Sweden continues to follow the same polices then by Aug it could have more than 10,000 deaths and more than 50, 000 infections and a hospital system overwhelmed.
Compare this to countries that have had a hard lock down.
Prof. Giesecke views and Sweden,s corona policies have been widely criticized by other health professional and doctors in Sweden

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Post  planetcare on Sun May 10, 2020 11:59 am

alchemist wrote:
There is another aspect to this and I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, and that is incorrect protocols being used. It has become clear that a ventilator is the wrong response when respiratory distress occurs. In New York 9 out of 10 persons on ventilators died, because the problem is a cyanosis like apoxia, and in hospitals where patients were treated for apoxia, very few died. So in many countries the ventilators were finishing them off, delivering the final coup de grace.

The reason that the mortality rate for covid patients on ventilators is so high is because they are all critically ill not because using ventilators is the wrong protocol! If ventilators were not used on the most critically ill patients with severe respiratory distress then the mortality rate for these patients would be close to 100%!

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Post  PeterInSa on Sun May 10, 2020 7:09 pm

Hi Alchemist, when your Friends wife gets over the shingles, she should look into having a vax shot for pneumonia, like shingles the vax its free in SA if you meet the criteria, and probably all over Oz.

Unfortunately this pneumonia vax does not work on the Covid-19 version of pneumonia. However I have read in todays paper and other sources that Vitamin D is a help in recovering from the virus.

Peter

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