GPZ my rating 4 out of 10 and thats being kind !

Hi JP
I've probably got the wrong end of the stick here but are you saying if your pick is close to the coil when digging a target, the pick could cancel out the target.



If it does, then it's a bit of a worry.

cheers
doofus

Doofas, I believe what JP is saying (I stand to be corrected here), is the whilst a metal object is moving in relation to the coil, it will be picked up and sound off the detector, lick the example of your pick, but if a metallic object is stationary as compared to the coil, like a large belt buckle in very close proximity to the coil that is lying on the ground, then the detector will tune out the stationary metallic object and in effect de-sensitise itself to metallic objects of that size and that distance...typical example would be to wave a 20c piece about 6" above the coil, the detector will sound off but glue that 20" piece on a stick and glue that fixed and stationary at about 6" above the coil, the detector will tune that metallic object out. I would imagine (but it's only guesswork) that on a GPX using a mono in fixed, the detector will desensitise to that 20c piece but because of the fixed ground balance, you will still be able to detect ok (so long as you don't reground balance), but on a GPZ being mostly on tracking, the detector will desensitise itself to that 20c piece but also adjust the ground balance, making it hard to continue detecting with any depth.

Doofus place a 1grm piece of gold on the bonnet of your truck and try to detect the 1gramma without detecting your trucks bonnet.

CostasDee wrote:Doofas, I believe what JP is saying (I stand to be corrected here), is the whilst a metal object is moving in relation to the coil, it will be picked up and sound off the detector, lick the example of your pick, but if a metallic object is stationary as compared to the coil, like a large belt buckle in very close proximity to the coil that is lying on the ground, then the detector will tune out the stationary metallic object and in effect de-sensitise itself to metallic objects of that size and that distance...typical example would be to wave a 20c piece about 6" above the coil, the detector will sound off but glue that 20" piece on a stick and glue that fixed and stationary at about 6" above the coil, the detector will tune that metallic object out. I would imagine (but it's only guesswork) that on a GPX using a mono in fixed, the detector will desensitise to that 20c piece but because of the fixed ground balance, you will still be able to detect ok (so long as you don't reground balance), but on a GPZ being mostly on tracking, the detector will desensitise itself to that 20c piece but also adjust the ground balance, making it hard to continue detecting with any depth.

Sorry CostasDee, that's NOT what I'm saying at all, my bad I need to put things into more succinct terms to avoid confusion.

As I said in a previous post the Auto GB of the GPZ is superb and I have to date not ever managed to track out a good target, therefore the detector will not readily desensitize itself to metal objects near the coil via the GB. What I am saying however is when you bring metal objects near the coil but at a distance, the signal created by them on the GPZ is more subtle compared to a GPX with a mono coil attached, subsequently it is not immediately apparent that the coil is picking up the metal on your person only that the tiny little nugget in your hand or scoop is hard to get a signal from when on top of the coil. Getting your body further back and at right angles by using a scoop as an extension to your arm when the coil is laying flat on the ground during target retrieval mode helps immensely.

The near to coil field of the GPZ is a LOT different to the GPX detectors, it's field is a LOT more powerful than a GPX but is manifest a lot differently due to the twin receives, subsequently the receive area outside of the "direct over the windings" sweet spot of the SuperD coil is a lot more subtle compared to the massive field of a monoloop, as such targets sensed outside the sweet spot are very broad and soft sounding. To test this place a coke can on the ground and approach it from a distance with the front of the coil at swing height, take note of the distance from the tip of the coil as you approach, then repeat with a similar sized monoloop on a 5000 and take note of the difference between the two machines.  

Essentially near stationary metal objects on your body will mask or hide small targets that are exposed to the coil at the same time, because the SuperD coil is not very sensitive around the edges those near stationary metal objects on your person will just be heralded like an out of GB situation (a very broad slow changing sound), hence potentially masking any small targets that generate signals around the same strength. Being aware of this during target retrieval will assist greatly in refining your recovery time. In a nut shell, get as far back from the coil as you can when retrieving tiny gold nuggets.

Hope this helps

JP

To JP especially ..........but all others that have contributed to date a very big thank you for the positive contributions. At the risk of repeating myself it is as I suspected and hoped that it was

A) In the settings....a lot more subtle adjustments than those of what we are perhaps used to
B) Understanding the new technology........a totally different approach and the need to grasp how this works especially when compared to the GPX machines.....the coil specifically but also the auto GB

Minelab have a bit to answer for here as follows

1) Minelab field testers have a huge knowledge base that they could and should have tapped into and summarized for those of us who purchased the new machine........
2) For Minelab to have only published one knowledge based article since that I was aware of when  I went out with it (relating to GB) and no other even brief tips is disappointing
3) No short courses for the purchases of the new machines as they have in the past is quite ordinary considering they did so for previous GPX machines and yet these new GPZ are so different we were sold the hype and the machines and told to fly solo...

Had Minelab done so then a lot less grief would have been suffered by myself and others who have been on a steep learning curve a lot more than necessary......indeed it may have even cost a few sales to date perhaps

Anyway we move on.....the forum has been excellent as always with the help received and myself and others and all of us are a lot more wiser and hopefully more successful with it..........Next time I get a chance to get out there I look forward to posting a much higher score    

Thanks

Graeme

What's gunna happen if you have an artificial knee joint. will I need an extra long scoop to keep well away from the coil

bungarra wrote:

Minelab have a bit to answer for here as follows

1) Minelab field testers have a huge knowledge base that they could and should have tapped into and summarized for those of us who purchased the new machine........
2) For Minelab to have only published one knowledge based article since that I was aware of when  I went out with it (relating to GB) and no other even brief tips is disappointing
3) No short courses for the purchases of the new machines as they have in the past is quite ordinary considering they did so for previous GPX machines and yet these new GPZ are so different we were sold the hype and the machines and told to fly solo...

Had Minelab done so then a lot less grief would have been suffered by myself and others who have been on a steep learning curve a lot more than necessary......indeed it may have even cost a few sales to date perhaps
Graeme

Yeah but remember, they have great technology knowledge, Minelab, but near zero common sense nor ethics.
What they do is cherry pick info they gain from testers, create a glowing report, expand on that, add some bright colours and trumpeted fanfares then go "voila" here's your greatest than ever detector. One others thing people forget is this. They use testers who have experience, knowledge and access to top areas which the average person will near never get and then take that, their testing experience with say the 7000, and use it to make the new machine look like that is replicate'able (might be a new word that one) to all. In other words they get a new fishing lure, put it in the hands of (Mr Top Fisho)  who then goes to the top end of Aus with a local guide or one of his own secret spots where no-one else knows of where the Spanish Macks will bite on a spoon tied to a bit of string, catch a boat full of fish and then declare to all and sundry "how awesome is this lure hey!!!???" Seriously, I know better than you might imagine people, don't trust all the reports you hear.
I don't know what the problem is with detecting little bits then putting them on the coil top? I have zero issues doing that even with bits down to grain of sugar size. I think too many excuses are being made for this detector and the blame is being shifted to the operator and technique, event though some times it may be those reasons, but seriously, the amount I see being blame shifted is garbage.


Nearly forgot to add my rating so far of the 7. 6 out of 10.
Has trouble coping with detecting on angles and walls of gullys, just as noisy as a GPX. This issue really bugs me, you can hit the tune all you like it makes no difference.
Needs to be reset too often ( though mine might have an issue and I am considering sending it back)
It does not detect solid nuggety gold hardly any deeper than a 5000, in fact the solid ones are glaringly missing from the radar. Notice all the good nuggety lumps turning up with the 7?????
Its a good machine but does not live up to the claims.
First we are told it will open the gold fields again, join the new rush. Then after time we see its not being opened up again. Unless you count fly specks coming in abundance "opening up again". "Finds gold from small to life changing retirement nuggets", hmmm, define that statement. Even an Aldi could possibly do that if you were lucky enough.
Then when the claims don't stack up after time we get a tester come on here and tell us that your old flogged patches wont give much up so you need to find new patches to find good gold with it!!??? What on earth, first it will open them all up again, but now its go and find new ones! Sound right?

Ok, true, the best gold may be gone and its not the machines fault, but how much proper testing was performed in Victoria to give us the claim of "reopen the goldfields again"?
It really appears the testing was done on cherry picked ground by those in the know and this has been transferred into the sales pitch.

I have a surgical implant [ read big metal rod] from the knee to my ankle on my left foot, all held in by screws top and bottom.
I have learnt to alter my swing, so when my left foot is forward, coil is furthest to my right, etc.
When retrieving targets, I have it on my right side, opposite to the implant.
I don't think if have missed any targets.

tricky 1 wrote:It sounds very frustrating for you as the settings seem ok. my deepest today was a .6 at 13 inches and the deepest so far was a specie containing 3.5 g at 20 inches. both were accurately measured with picks and pinpointer while still in the hole.

Wow those depths are hard to believe so wish you had a video to show us of those events on how incredible this GPZ really is.

Surely on larger nuggets 36 inches plus is not out of the question.  

WMG

Jonathan Porter wrote:Suggestions and ideas, please do not take offence if some of it is obvious:

The Super D coil has to be used like a DD coil in DD mode on the 5000, you cannot swing too fast or expect a signal response like a monoloop coil. I use a plastic scoop to retrieve targets for two VERY good reasons (you reading this Aurumpro "GRIN"  (have forgotten your new nick));

1: The signal response on tiny targets can be very hard to isolate on top of the coil, that's because the Rx windings are closest to the bottom of the coil which is more sensitive. So you need to develop better techniques for efficient target retrieval, including agitating the target to the bottom of the scoop before passing over the receive point (I go between the webs on the left hand side of the coil opposite the yaft anchor/swivel point).

2:The GPZ with ZVT is much more subtle in its behavior on distant large targets and also a lot more powerful, its signal response does not rush up at you like a 5000 with a mono, it progressively goes from very faint and broad to a gradual increase in volume. So without realizing it you can easily null out small targets when trying to retrieve them because your too close to the coil with metal objects on your body such as the WM12, speakers, headphones, mobile phones etc!!! Using a scoop will give you extra reach to help alleviate some of this issue. Try to place the control box end of the unit further away from your body and then come in from a right angle from the receive winding when retrieving targets, especially small ones, to avoid the twin receive points at the rear and front of the coil picking up metal on your person.

Ground Balance: As was mentioned in Bruce's white paper, sometimes you can encounter an atypical ground condition when performing the initial critical GB procedure, this can also be affected by salt as well, of which WA has in abundance. A bad GB regime can result in a loss of sensitivity and depth as is being evidence by some users from time to time. When your ear becomes more attuned to GPZ behavior you can easily recognize a bad result by the way the detector is behaving and very quickly remedy the problem. The best suggestion when your not happy with the detector after repeated switch off then on attempts is to do a reset all settings via the Quick Start menu option, once the auto tune has completed still keep the coil away from the ground and do not touch the Quick-Trak button or wave near a vehicle as you change your settings, then go through the walk and sweep procedure again preferably on ground that is free of salt and target like signal responses. Keep off the Quick Trak button for at least 20 to 30 minutes to give the electronics a chance to refine its GB to the local conditions, in WA its preferable to try to keep away from very salty ground as well during this phase.

Hope this helps and please do not feel I am belittling the situation, I take issues like this very seriously.

JP

hi Jonathan just to clarify the above in red during the initial walk and sweep you DO NOT press the quick track button at all  ??
as I have been pressing the quick track during this first 20 seconds then staying off the quick track completely
just a bit of confusion because after the auto tune the GPZ then directs you to press the quick track and walk and sweep

getting the ground balance correct every time may explain why one time I can detect really small stuff easily then another time I really struggle with 1/4 grammers on the surface

thanks in advance
kind regards
mick

I think JP was quoting from Bruce's instructions found on PAGE 4 under ground balancing :

http://www.minelab.com/__files/f/266297/KBA_24-1%20ZVT%20Technology.pdf

A bit different to the GPX method intially.

mickb wrote:

Jonathan Porter wrote:Suggestions and ideas, please do not take offence if some of it is obvious:

The Super D coil has to be used like a DD coil in DD mode on the 5000, you cannot swing too fast or expect a signal response like a monoloop coil. I use a plastic scoop to retrieve targets for two VERY good reasons (you reading this Aurumpro "GRIN"  (have forgotten your new nick));

1: The signal response on tiny targets can be very hard to isolate on top of the coil, that's because the Rx windings are closest to the bottom of the coil which is more sensitive. So you need to develop better techniques for efficient target retrieval, including agitating the target to the bottom of the scoop before passing over the receive point (I go between the webs on the left hand side of the coil opposite the yaft anchor/swivel point).

2:The GPZ with ZVT is much more subtle in its behavior on distant large targets and also a lot more powerful, its signal response does not rush up at you like a 5000 with a mono, it progressively goes from very faint and broad to a gradual increase in volume. So without realizing it you can easily null out small targets when trying to retrieve them because your too close to the coil with metal objects on your body such as the WM12, speakers, headphones, mobile phones etc!!! Using a scoop will give you extra reach to help alleviate some of this issue. Try to place the control box end of the unit further away from your body and then come in from a right angle from the receive winding when retrieving targets, especially small ones, to avoid the twin receive points at the rear and front of the coil picking up metal on your person.

Ground Balance: As was mentioned in Bruce's white paper, sometimes you can encounter an atypical ground condition when performing the initial critical GB procedure, this can also be affected by salt as well, of which WA has in abundance. A bad GB regime can result in a loss of sensitivity and depth as is being evidence by some users from time to time. When your ear becomes more attuned to GPZ behavior you can easily recognize a bad result by the way the detector is behaving and very quickly remedy the problem. The best suggestion when your not happy with the detector after repeated switch off then on attempts is to do a reset all settings via the Quick Start menu option, once the auto tune has completed still keep the coil away from the ground and do not touch the Quick-Trak button or wave near a vehicle as you change your settings, then go through the walk and sweep procedure again preferably on ground that is free of salt and target like signal responses. After the initial 10 to 12 second Walk and Swing with Quick Trak held in keep off the Quick Trak button for at least 20 to 30 minutes to give the electronics a chance to refine its GB to the local conditions, in WA its preferable to try to keep away from very salty ground as well during this phase.

Hope this helps and please do not feel I am belittling the situation, I take issues like this very seriously.

JP

hi Jonathan just to clarify the above in red during the initial walk and sweep you DO NOT press the quick track button at all  ??
as I have been pressing the quick track during this first 20 seconds then staying off the quick track completely
just a bit of confusion because after the auto tune the GPZ then directs you to press the quick track and walk and sweep

getting the ground balance correct every time may explain why one time I can detect really small stuff easily then another time I really struggle with 1/4 grammers on the surface

thanks in advance
kind regards
mick

Mick, I've edited the misunderstanding in the quote (added a clarification in black lettering), you need to depress the Quick Trak at the start then keep off it after that for as long as possible..

Treasure Talk is a good place for factual information about Minelab metal detectors, I urge people to drop in there often as it is updated regularly. I just had an article posted up on there a day or so ago which will answer a lot of questions being asked here.

Ground Balance TT Blog

JP

Just to make sure i am understanding correct ground balance,  in treasure talk, JP states that 
 Note: the ‘Walk and Sweep’ procedure needs to be performed for each Gold Mode and Ground Type used during the session
Does this mean that if i go out and start up and select  High yield and then select normal ground type I have to ground balance, then if I find that I need to go to difficult ground type , that I need to reground balance by holding quick track button and doing 12 second swing again, then if I want to go to general gold mode and difficult ground type I then have to reground balance with quick track and swing coil again for 12 odd seconds. 
I'm just trying to get my head around this.  Does all the info then for the next half hour go to each gold mode and ground type that I have selected and ground balanced in regardless of which mode i am in.
Sorry if I sound a bit thick, but just trying to understand so am not in the same possition as previous posters when get into gold field and then get fustrated.
 Thanks JP for all your help and information.
travelergold.

PLease take no offence but it seems to me user error. This detector takes a while to adapt to. To master the settings and ground balance procedure to learn to slow down your swing speed. Pinpointing and retrieval technique. It all takes time to familiarise yourself with this detector. To know to listen to the subtle target responses. The Zed is nothing like a 5000! Weight, Feel, Response, totally different. Someone described the Zed as being like a 2300 on Steroids. That made me smile, but seriously its much more than that. I thought the 5000 was unbeatable until the Zed arrived. Leaves the 5000 in its dust along with the 2300. I regularly detect pieces at depth that the two previous mentioned detectors couldn't find. So how good is the Zed? Im learning every week and the more I use it, the more I like it. The man that really knows how this thing ticks and what it is capable off is JP. Yes the same very person some members crucified when the Zed came out. We are very lucky that he still posts on this forum. Very lucky indeed. You have a problem have a question or seek advise. Ask JP. He wont bull to you. He will tell you how it is. From my experience a lot of problems associated with the Zed is user error. Very hard for the beginner to learn. I myself would recommend the 2300 for a beginner. Due to ease of use "set and forget" and they should pick up gold. Progress to a 5000 then the Zed. On ending this post I will leave you a Joke just like Allan Jones does on his morning show. Did you here about the thief that was stealing farm gates. The police wouldn't arrest him encase he took a fence.

I hope it's user error! I have had mine for a week. Turned it on for the first time yesterday and it was a little unstable and then looked at the manual again and found I was doing a few little things wrong, will try again today. I do expect it to be unstable at the spot I'm doing the testing. In town, two tin shed pretty close buy so I don't think it has much of a chance.

I am not sure yet, on how smooth you can get the thresh hold in ideal conditions?
Any little tips would be great. Been reading as much as I can, and have been following JP. Thanks JP.

Cheers.

Re my previous post,  is this the procedure to ground balance in every setting or am i just not understanding the operating procedures and what JP has stated. Im still lost about this. TG

G'day Gents.

Many of the detector issues encountered out on the field,is because people have not quite grasped the initial GPZ tuning/ground balance,set-up procedure. As Minelab states,it is wise to always start off in default settings.(High Yield/Difficult) soil conditions and after the initial tuning/ground balance procedure,take it from there. The ground will always determine what you can/cannot use comfortably,to within tolerable levels or not.
I'v had the GPZ running with a smooth threshold,with the above settings in Audio Smoothing Low,over above average mineralized ground conditions.
So in/over "Ideal" ground conditions,the threshold of the GPZ should run as smooth as a baby's bum.
Unless there are factory issues,with the detectors performance,straight out of the box from day one (which is not unheard of,but quite rare) the initial tuning & ground balance procedure as stated by Minelab & JP should be strictly adhered to. Concentrate on getting this right upon switch on and things should be smooth sailing,all day from there,even when changing from one gold mode to another,during detecting and repeating the "quick start" ground balance procedure.

Cheers Kon.

Hi con,  so if you go out and start detecting and want to change into another gold mode you then have do do another quik track, ie pull trigger and swing coil until tick comes on screen. But that seems to contradict the statement that you do not touch quick track button for 20 or so minutes. Just need to know as have only been using machine for a couple hrs when go out but trying to fathom its operation as when we head into desert in 6 weeks we will have no phone signal for probably 6 to 8 weeks. To learn then is really to late to ask. at moment not using it to much as still trying to get my health sorted out, but our gold spot is calling bad. TG

Hi Basada

As the original poster I take no offence at your comments and observations however if you read my original post you will note that myself and the couple of mates that were with me on our first trip with the new 7000 consider ourselves reasonably experienced across the board with previous detectors

I stand by my original comments that it was probably in the settings and techniques in order to be able to master and understand the technology and detecting techniques that I agree are substantially different from the past

Reading your post it would appear that you have had the opportunity to become acquainted with the GB and techniques that have since been issued by Minelab and POST the 7000 release. (and perhaps after my initial posting) Since my posting just after Easter on this forum JP has been extremely helpful in commenting and explaining. Also Minelab have issued at least 2 and I understand there is a 3rd release due imminently.

I have no doubt the 7000 has the ability to live up to the hype surrounding its release and in the ensuing months the knowledge and advice that has been forthcoming since its release has enabled many with the 7000 to better utilize its undoubted ability successfully.

I and many others remain severely pi**ed of with Minelab over the lack of specific instructions and explanations that accompanied the initial release...........The instruction manual did lack some specifics on GB in particular and other finer points that are critical to getting is "singing successfully"...It was far too general and non specific in some critical areas

The reaction and hence publication of updated notes and instructions by Minelab and others involved in its testing since its release (as a result of negative reports by many experienced users) ) clearly indicate that that knowledge was already known "in the system" and for reasons known to only them...not imparted! ...not even a short course like they have done previously with the release of other detectors........... The very one detector that needed the short course on purchase was ignored.....a quantum leap in technology and techniques and we are asked to part with twice as many $ as in the past.....trust Minelab and go fly solo!  

I did my pilots training in a Cessna 150 and I sure as hell would not have stayed in the air long (if I got it off the ground) if I had then been given the controls of a F18 hornet and told go fly solo and trust the technology!

I am satisfied that the 7000 will live up to expectations and the grumbles will die down as more information comes to light.....enough information has since come to get these working but very belatedly. At least my original post got some dialogue going and we are all the better for posts such as JP's

Thanks to all that posted positively on my OP and may we all go forward

Cheers

travelergold wrote:Re my previous post,  is this the procedure to ground balance in every setting or am i just not understanding the operating procedures and what JP has stated. Im still lost about this. TG

My understanding when changing ground conditions, yes do a "quick track" and after that bob the coil up and down to finish the ground balance then don't touch quick track again until next time.

Thanks peterinaust.  Do not know what happened to last post but you have answered my question. Cheers TG

travelergold wrote:Thanks peterinaust.  Do not know what happened to last post but you have answered my question. Cheers TG

Well I hope that's right HaHa. I am still learning like us all, I have just been out the back and have it running much better than yesterday. Can pick up my test piece better.
I am trying to get the feel of it. I am in town and between two tin sheds and the clothes line. Just going to go down the road a bit away from all the metal and emi.

Cheers

Travelergold,there is no law that you cannot change between gold modes after following the initial tuning/ground balance procedure upon start up.The  GPZs is designed to absorb the majority of ground information upon the first 12/15 seconds of your initial ground balance procedure just after start up.Not touching the Quick Track button for 20/30 minutes after the initial ground balance procedure of 12/15 seconds has taken place,is recommended only so that the GPZ is given the chance to absorb/decipher 100% of ground information within that period of time,giving it better all round ground stability/sensitivity/maximum depth for the gold mode your in. But it is best changing from one gold mode to another & re ground balancing after you'v gone through the initial Quick Track/start up/ground balance procedure & 20/30 minute of not touching the quick track button whilst in Auto Tracking.Any  gold mode change/ground balance after this,can be done the same way as you would balance a GPX (swinging in one spot from side to side or bobbing the GPX Coil up and down),until the detector is running smooth and the coil ground balanced stable.  
There's nothing to stop one changing from one gold mode into another,before the so called 20 minutes of the GPZ collecting ground information are up and performing a ground balance procedure with the quick track trigger held in,its just that the detector might not have had,the full info of ground information taken in by the previous gold mode/soil setting.But I can assure you the detector will still be fully functionable,just maybe not at 100% peak absorption of ground information.

Cheers Kon.

Today is only the second day that I have turned the Z on, I must admit the first time I was not real happy but realised after I was doing a few things wrong and not giving the machine a chance.
And now one happy chap, moved down the road away from houses and tin sheds, it ran as smooth as a babies bum (thanks Kon61) can't wait to get out there next month.

I do not post very much but have been doing a lot of reading on the Z. Thanking all those who have posted there experience that has helped me and others to get started with this new machine.

Cheers

travelergold wrote:Hi con,  so if you go out and start detecting and want to change into another gold mode you then have do do another quik track, ie pull trigger and swing coil until tick comes on screen. But that seems to contradict the statement that you do not touch quick track button for 20 or so minutes. Just need to know as have only been using machine for a couple hrs when go out but trying to fathom its operation as when we head into desert in 6 weeks we will have no phone signal for probably 6 to 8 weeks. To learn then is really to late to ask. at moment not using it to much as still trying to get my health sorted out, but our gold spot is calling bad. TG

G'day travelergold

After my initial problems which are now sorted and the Zed is finding gold, this is the initial procedure when you turn the detector on (power up) keep the coil off the ground, and select say "high yield" and "difficult" bring the coil down to about 30mm to 50mm from the ground hold the quick track button if and do the walk swing for the 10 to 15 seconds then release the quick track button.

If your going to use another soil timing in the area then you can choose say "General" and "difficult" and repeat the previous procedure. Then you can toggle between these 2 timings without using the quick track button again, just give the coil a bob up and down without touching the quick track button.

All this is of course if you have selected auto ground balance in the first place.

I detected all day today and never touched the quick track button again after the initial after power up walk and swing. If you turn off the machine like at smoko or lunch then when power up the soil timings will be where you left them, just bring the coil down to about the 30 to 50mm from the ground and do the walk swing with the quick track button held in for the 10 or so seconds and do the other timings the same and keep detecting.

You shouldn't need to squeeze the quick track button again as the auto tracking is doing all this for you, just the bob up and down every now an again to keep things running sweetly

Hope this long winded post about ground balance and the quick track button is of some help, its a bit to get you head around and nothing like the 5000 so don't try and do it like that.

cheers dave

Thanks for that dave, you put it in laymans terms. And easy to understand.  Hopefully i will get into the hills for a couple hrs again this week and give it another try.
like i have said, need to sort out operation before we head away cause if problems then it is to late.
this machine if different to our 4500 and that was first machine we owned, had never seen a detector before. Out bush and trying to understand instructions on that with no help was a nightmare. Was lucky that some other detector guys came along and got us on track.   This forum is so helpful.
cheers TG

Update.....I will raise the score to 7 after the Bruce Candy papers and the ferrite GB............Used ferrite method for the first time last weekend and got a vastly different quiet and stable machine and a couple of tiny nuggets so heading in the right direction

Good to hear of your latest experience bungarra, By the sounds of it a good step in the right direction.
Can't wait to give the Ferrite thingy a go on a spot I have not long come away from, reckon it's going to improve my nugget tally somewhat.
Cheers
Ashley