yes or No

I'm new to the prospecting / treasure hunting  with a detector so am looking for some clarification.
I have a miners right and have done the Reeds  (cracking the code course). So found a plot of land out at Cue WA
which was blue in colour and had a pending lodgment on the tenement. I managed the get the address  of the person
who has the pending request. I went a saw the person with a form drawn up asking for permission to use my GM1000
on the stated tenement. I offered to give any information with regards to finds and positions and photos . Also stated
that i would only be on said tenement for 3 day as i was travelling through.

The response i got was No i'm doing stuff on it, and if you go near it i'll have you arrested. I did ask even though this was a pending
blue tenement .  No you carn't go anywhere near it.

My understanding was as a blue pending site i could go on the tenement? But it would be courteous to contact the applicant and explain
your intentions?  Is this right or am i wrong?

Big D (trot)

Hi BD, My understanding is that you can prospect on Blue Pending Leases, and my understanding is that you do not need to inform the pending lease holder ( but I stand corrected if I am wrong). I think its better to get a 40E or go on a pending site if a big company is involved as small time lease holders can get up set with you taking their gold, and you informing the pending lease holder just makes it worse in his eyes. see below.

https://alluvialgprospectors.proboards.com/thread/3491/pending-leases

So more info on pending here see 10th May
https://www.facebook.com/Gold-Prospecting-WA-212723918747137/

G'day Trot, welcome to the forum

Although I'm leaning towards what Peter has said, this shouldn't be rocket science but just another aspect of knowing/understanding the law/s governing pending prospecting leases & your rights as well as the rights given (if any) to the pending prospecting lease holder, in order to keep you off their pending lease.  
Respect between parties concerned here, plays little if no role at all, when the law governing pending prospecting leases allows a metal detectorist via a section 40E to enter a pending prospecting lease, remove & keep any gold found from that pending lease, regardless of what one thinks of the law or not.
I see little point from the pending lease holders perspective, who has done all the research in finding/pegging out & paying for a potential gold bearing locality, only to have any detectorist holding a section 40E, allowing them (by law) to prospect for and keep any gold found on someone else's pending prospecting lease.
I also see no point in trying to justify who's more in the right or wrong, when in fact the law itself might need amending in order to fully protect or clarify to all parties concerned, of its intended purpose/use. For the law/s governing pending prospecting leases cant be saying one thing & the individuals concerned (both lease holder & or prospector holding a section 40E saying or believing in doing another.)
Taking any other form of action, based on what each individual thinks or believes is right, outside that of the laws governing pending prospecting leases within that state, leaves themselves open to be dealt with breaking the law/s governing a pending prospecting lease of that state.
Now being a Victorian I might be seen as showing little respect to one or either party concerned here, but whatever the law on pending leases allows or not allows according to each state, is what one will be facing in a in a court of law, when the laws of that state in regards to a pending prospecting lease are broken by either individuals insistence.
Only my views on the above matters fellas & wish to show no disrespect to all or any parties concerned, for its easy for me to talk, but I'm not the one relying nor living in hope, of what my future pending prospecting lease might hold, nor the possible fear of losing a substantial sum of money in way of gold finds, by someone other than me (the pending prospecting lease holder), because of what the law allows or not allows.

Cheers Kon.

total crazy stuff, I'm trying to wrapped my head around it.
It basically sets both parties up for a bun fight or worse fisty cuffs


cheers moredeep

Sorry Kon, but the 40es only applies for EL leases and not for pending leases and according to the DMIRS (Miines Department) pending leases are open to all prospectors holding a WA miners right Unless there is a Live lease under that pending lease. That’s the law and you are right that law should be changed.

Cheers.


Mike.

Thanks for clarifying that Mike. So basically my question is, if Trot were in the right (by law) to prospect for gold on a pending lease, then what reason/right did the pending lease holder have (by law) in order to keep him off prospecting on his pending lease, since the lease in question is still pending? If there were a current live lease under that pending lease, then how can it be blue in colour & or a pending tenement open to all or any detectorist, holding a miners right?  What am I not understanding here fellas?
My turn moredeep  for its got me more confused than what I've said in my previous post.    

Cheers Kon.

G’day Kon,

I can understand why the guy that has got the pending lease, as you have to pay up front when you have pegged the lease, you pay a fee and 12 months rent for the lease.  Then you have to wait for the lease to get passed which takes about 8 months to be come live under your name.  

If there’s a live lease under the pending the colour will be slightly darker with a green tinge instead of the light blue.

Cheers.  

Mike.

Thanks Mike.

Kon.

Regardless if the Pending Lease holder or EL Lease holder, where we have a 40E is upset with us detecting on his lease we will move on. I do not want to leave our caravan unattended in this situation while we are out detecting.

There'd be a slight problem if one was a little coloured blind, then again that could be a good excuse
Very trixie indeed.
And yes kon you did tie yourself in a granny knot gave me a chuckle


cheers moredeep

That too is quite understandable here Pete. No one wants to live in fear. Quite obvious there could be more than just the letter of the law an outsider has to be aware of or adhere to. This is why  open/honest communication, by entering through the front door & asking the owner of that pending lease for permission is required & if the answer is no, you are not welcome nor wanted on here, then no it must be. After all it is somebody else's livelihood we're talking about.
Only you moredeep. I still don't know of how to go about untangling it.

Cheers Kon.

Sounds like ya having some dramas Dave, luckily we don’t have this problem here in NQ with all that just a permit and landholders permission BUT in saying that it’s harder to get on here as they always say no unless you have been here for a while and no people

Appreciate your feedback Dave. Now its starting to make a little more sense. It might not be the laws governing pending leases that need amending after all, but more like attitudes.

Cheers Kon.

I guess a person wanting to peg a claim would have to become a little more cunning.
Peg your claim/lease about 4 weeks prior to the HOT SEASON which last for; say 5/6 months then hope the authorities grant you a permit.
One would need only to bat prospectors away from the claim for about a month.
Maybe people should push for a shortening of time that a claim is granted, That would surely help the situation somewhat?
The standard joke is that WA stands for wait awhile but 8 months to process a claim is bewildering.
Maybe someone can explain why it takes so long.


cheers moredeep

G’day moredeep,

When you peg the lease/claim it goes through the courts and put up on a notice board to see if there’s any objections, then it goes through Native Title, which takes about 4 months and if all’s good it goes live/active in your name.


Cheers.

Mike.

When you peg a lease as a P or an E you pay 12 months rent in advance but that does not start until the lease is granted. so you have approx 8 months when your money is sitting waiting.
When you file the paperwork the lease is advertised for objections (approx 1 month) then it will be advertised for native title claims. this can take up to six months. after that the lease is finally evaluated and should be granted.
Then and only then can the lease holder start doing any work that requires a Programme of Works.

However if you are converting an existing P to an M then the same process applies as above with the same rules. Plus you have to pay the rent on the underlying P as well as doing the required expenditure, while the M is being evaluated.

40E's are only available on granted E's

Do not back off to any of these people that will try and bluff you with their "rights". You have rights under the mining Act and if you back down that only encourages these people to try it on the next person. If you are members of APLA these are the sort of issues that you pay membership fees for.

A conversion of a P to an M will have a different colour on the screen, usually a less obvious blue. On trilobite the lease will show as an M but tapping the screen will show the underlying P and the details of who the leaseholder is.  As the underlying P is still live you would need permission to prospect on it. do not be fooled by what EMIts shows either. The underlying P will show the expiry date of the lease, which may be several months ago, however the lease is kept alive while the M is being assessed. If the Mis refused then the whole lot expire and the ground would become black and available for pegging.

EMITs will also give you a good idea of when the lease may be granted. link to emits isHere
call up the lease and look at the top right where it says "application tracking" click on that and look at the "chart" tab. This will tell you how far along the application is. Once it clears native title the grant is usually a few weeks away.

Further to my reply above, have a look at M37/1353 on Emits.
It was applied for on 6/11/20, has cleared objections and is in the native title phase for the last 4 months. It should clear that in the next month or so and then be ready for grant. Meanwhile the underlying lease P 37/8219 is still live and therefore is not available to prospect on without TJD's approval.

Hope that helps to clarify things.

Howdy all you responders, the feed back has back good .It seems that I caan if I want can go on the pending lease until it's live. But beings as I requested permission from the lease applicant and was knocked back I should respect his answer. In hindsite may be I shouldn't have ask the question but then again don't wish to end up down a mine shaft , As you just never know whats round the corner.

once again thank .
Stay safe & good prospecting.

Trot

Trot here again, Do the same rules apply if your fossicking for relics or treasure ? and is there a difference between a fossickers licence and a miners right? just wondering ?  

Trot

Hi trott,
Dozer covered it all, I tend to stay away from small private leases and go for the ones pending to mining companies.
The smaller private ones could be their main source of income which is fair enough.
In your case you really only need to let the Pastoral Lease Holder know where you will be and when you arrive and leave, with the lease being a pending lease the person you spoke to has not had the lease granted yet, so he should not be doing any work on it other than prospecting himself.

The response i got was No i'm doing stuff on it,
Cheers

Top information replies/feedback gents. Hopefully this paints a clearer picture for anyone heading north for the purpose of prospecting for relics/gold on or over someone's pending lease.

Cheers Kon.

I have been prospecting on the same property for some years now. There are a couple of small leases that I stay well away from. In the past year or so small companies with a desire to get bigger have taken out EPs over nearly the whole property. Most of the gold areas have been "discovered" by people like myself over many years who don't have the resources to "stake a claim". Next thing there are pending leases over the "most likely" areas, again with a view to on selling. Bear in mind no ACTUAL exploration has TAKEN place. Who did all the work in the first place? If pending claims are locked up we may as well throw away our detectors. Obviously if leases are granted they become a no go area.

Is that not always the case Rockwall. Just like the prospectors of old (1850s to early 1900s) discovering & pegging out some of the richest gold bearing ground, only to have it all taken away from them, by wealthy mining investors, who ended up making fortunes, only to reward the discoverers with a pittance for their hard work & troubles. Nothings changed.

Cheers Kon.

And unfortunately forces people into moonlighting?


cheers moredeep

Quote......The best advice is before pegging a lease is to detect detect and then detect it some more, so if people want to detect it while its pending then good luck, and you know that they can only use hand held tools and a detector.

I only pegged 1 claim in Victoria. There is no advantage to do so, for using a metal detector to get gold. Back in the early 1980s I did the advice given above. It was interesting the professional prospector were the only ones that kept an eye on newly pegged ground back then (Local and Major Newspaper with name of those applying). I was lucky my mate went halves and being a local police officer, no one did any midnight blading of the claim that was common at the time. I will not peg a claim now unless I have a Mechanical Method to get the gold.

Well worth reading for what goes on.     ......LINK......

Some great reading there geof, the world would be a better place if everyone practiced a little diplomacy.
As Winston Churchill once said, it's better to jaw jaw than to war war



cheers moredeep