Section 20A permits

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Post  kimbd01 on Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:52 am

Firstly my apologies, I have been one of those new members that have been browsing over this forum for a few weeks and not contributing; sorry.
My question is regarding WA mining regs; 20A permits. My wife, I and another couple have been over to WA the last two Septembers and are coming again this year, each time we have applied for and received at least two Section 20A's and on every occasion other detecting parties have entered, camped and detected on our permit area. When approached they have all said they've not bothered with that stuff for years, no one does they've said. I understand the implications of being caught by authorities without a 20A are severe.
This year in particular north of Menzies a group entered our permit area leaving large unfilled holes and cans, bottles and rubbish dumped onto their smoldering campfires. The pastoral leave holder would have seen my name on 20A and assumed this mess was left by us!!! I did try later to ring the lease holder but never gained contact.
Is it policed and by who?
How many others apply for permits.
Are we waisting time and money by doing "the right thing?"
Finally I have been a contributor to another gold forum where over half of the posts are mud slinging and stirring within but this forum is a pleasure to read and hopefully my future contributions will be of interest and value.
Dene

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Post  ski29214 on Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:17 pm

Welcome to the forum. Can't offer any specific advice re the Sect 20A's and your experience with detectorists obviously not doing the right thing.
Sadly that's so often the case with many different activities:

You go the local hotel for a quiet drink, mob of yobbos arrive, noisy, probably already affected by alcohol. You are doing the right thing, they just carry on regardless. You eventually decide that enough is enough and decide to go elsewhere.

Same thing happens all the time on our roads. You driving sedately, complying with all road rules, suddenly overtaken by some half baked 'road racer' (very often a young female) driving like there's no tomorrow.

Your sitting at a red light waithing for the change, as it changes, you look right and left (as you always do often expecting the unexpected) suddenly a vehicle driven by a young male accompanied by several other of similar age tears through on a red light. Just as well you waited for a few seconds after the change.

Mate, I could go on, you could go on, it seems to be a general lessening of respect for others, compliance with laws/rules and an attitude of 'I'm alright Jack' and that so many just 'do their own thing'.

If I was you, I would persist in trying to conatct the pastoralist and explain what happened. At least you can put your side of the story and if appropriate apologise for their actions in the hope that the area is still made accessible to detectorists.

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Post  Guest on Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:09 pm

Dene,
Re the holes, same thing happened to wife and self about 4 years ago, I received verbal permission from the manager of a large mine that we could detect on their leases and came across a recent patch in an arear that I had discussed with him. Wife and I ended up filling in 100+ holes.

Re the 20A, this year, same thing, others camped in our 20A areas without 20A's, I know the mining company who has the leases does do checks, just hope that there is no rubbish left by these operators that may give us problems in coming back next year with a 20A.

Peter

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Post  kiwi on Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:40 pm

i have worked on 3 different pastoral leases over last 4 years as a relieving caretaker/mananger ,so they could take a well deserved break,and i know for a fact 2 out of the 3 worked for the mining company,quite common whilst on care and maint,so all i can say its a risk im not willing to take, if you havent bothered to contact the pastoral leaseholder he is not going to very happy when he finds you,there is no excuse for not getting a 20a permit,its dead easy and cheap,just requires a bit of homework.
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Post  davsgold on Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:56 pm

I could be wrong but it is my understanding that a section 20A is to do with a mining companys EL areas only, and all you need to do is notify the pastrol leaseholder that you will be there between certain dates.

Of course you still need to leave the place tidy and fill in holes etc, one would think that this is not unreasonable, but some people think that this does not apply to them, and they can just trash the place. Section 20A permits Icon_mad
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Post  Driller on Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:56 pm

Davsgold,

You are right on both counts.

Driller.

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Post  Nebuchadnezzar on Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:14 am

Hi kimbd01
You are certainly doing the right thing by getting section 20A permits. Section 20 A permits are only for exploratory leases and the Dept. Mines & Petroleum can issue more than one permit for the same graticular blocks, so its possible that others with permits might be there at the same time as you. Its more likely that most don't bother with section 20A permits since exploratory leases are rarely policed but just in case its better to be legal. At least you can't be kicked off. Keep in mind when detecting around EL's there are mines that are most likely pegged under mining or prospecting leases and these need written permission to detect on.

If other campers are in the area my advice is to draught up a standard letter to the station owners informing them that others were in the area and that you are not responsible for any rubbish left behind. This will put you in good terms with the pastoralist and he will welcome you next time. I wouldn't try to police the area though. A section 20A permit doesn't allow you to do that and neither would I go around filling other peoples holes. You will always get ratbags out there. This might upset a few here, but about 90% of the people detecting out there are, some much worse than others.
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Post  jayvee on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:05 pm

well,after our 7 months in wa,we have seen the worst of the worst,i cannot believe that any human being can stoop so low for their own profit,but then again they are not probably human,i.e. no permission,leave rubbish,act like rambo,etc,why?.fill your holes get permission ,take rubbish out,is it the N or the O they dont understand?we will go back,please treat wa with respect,or it will have the restrictions of qld.heavens forbid.
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Post  Nightjar on Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:51 am

Morning John/Val,
Happy to hear you are home safe and sound and preparing for your next visit.
I whole heartedly agree with your comments about keeping WA clean and following the correct procedures to keep our WA goldfields open for the future.
APLA is working hard to keep the fields open however the noose is tightening.
And it is without doubt the irresponsible behavour by a minority that is bringing this down on we prospectors.
Hope to catch you next year.

Cheers
Peter
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Post  kimbd01 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:06 pm

Thanks all for your responses. Always a small minority potentially stuffing up for the rest. I would not dream of entering without permission. I did wonder if these regulations were policed.
I have some coastal land that was accessable until idiots lit fires, left junk everywhere, chewed up the paddocks and sandhills, left gates open, emptied stock water etc until I had no choice other than to lock it up. Now open to personal contact.
Dene

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Post  Nebuchadnezzar on Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:45 pm

kimbd01 wrote:Always a small minority potentially stuffing up for the rest.
I will admit that the majority on this forum seem to be doing the right thing but this is definately not the case out there. In all of 20 years I could count all the good ones that I have met on one hand and still have some fingers to spare.
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Post  Guest on Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:14 pm

you mustn't have met many

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Post  monkey on Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:13 pm

I agree with madtuna there many of us out there doing the right thing you are just not looking hard enough me for one, I spend most of my time in the bush. and you would be hard pressed to find me or see where I have been. and I know many like this. lets stop the idiots and get them out, and not start fighting aganst each other

just my 2 cents

allan
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Post  jayvee on Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:19 pm

Thanks peter

Thanks peter,good to hear from you and yours,we will be back about late feb early march,the slide on ,trailer ,rodeo are all sold,bought a colorado {3 ton tow] AND a 20 foot off road caravan,getting soft in our old age,val got a 4500,now ill see if santa takes 4000 as trade,all the best, to you and carol,john and val in johs country.





quote="Nightjar"]Morning John/Val,
Happy to hear you are home safe and sound and preparing for your next visit.
I whole heartedly agree with your comments about keeping WA clean and following the correct procedures to keep our WA goldfields open for the future.
APLA is working hard to keep the fields open however the noose is tightening.
And it is without doubt the irresponsible behavour by a minority that is bringing this down on we prospectors.
Hope to catch you next year.

Cheers
Peter[/quote]
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